Author Topic: Hunters - I don't get the press's freaking problem (Metroid/FPS discussion) (Read 8861 times)

kirby_killer_dedede · « **on:** July 25, 2004, 01:46:47 PM »

I've been tracking Hunters since its initial announcement, and I am pissed...

The media (especially the Nintendo-biased, Sony-loving EGM) seems to have some sort of crazy problem with Metroid Prime: Hunters. They all agree - it's the most beautiful game for the DS, and is a fine piece of gaming. Except they all have another agreement...the conrols suck. Now, I'm not one to say, as I wasn't at E3 this year, but I don't get their freaking problem. I mean, sure, I see how shooting every time you turn might get a bit annoying (and I'm positive Nintendo will work that out), but what they all seem to hate is using the stylus to turn. How can they be so blind?? It's EXACTLY like controlling a PC FPS, the games they love so much, and that's obviously where Nintendo's coming from with Hunters. I just don't get their problem.

I mean, the DS could mean PC-quality FPS's on the go for the FIRST TIME EVER. I don't know...your thoughts on this, Metroid Hunters in general, and FPS's on the DS.

Myxtika1 Azn · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2004, 02:55:53 PM »

Complaining about shooting when you want to turn? Why not complain about shooting when you want to charge a beam? That is so retarded. Seriously, what is the problem with shooting ONE shot when you want to turn? Does it make turning around slower? Does it make the game less fun? Get over it. It really irks me when people complain about such minor details like this.

ib2kool4u912 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2004, 03:01:26 PM »

It definitely doesn't sound like a big deal in a game like Metroid, where you have unlimited ammo.

Draygaia · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2004, 04:46:43 PM »

Well in an FPS you need something for moving forward/backward, turning left/right, strafing left/right, and looking up/down. I see that working with the d-pad and AXBY buttons. Changing weapons, Shooting, Confirm, and menu I see in the Start, Select, L, and R buttons. Its kind of hard with the DS but I never felt the DS. You really need more buttons and control on the DS or something.

Bloodworth · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2004, 05:29:56 PM »

I think either A: People don't seem to grasp that games at E3 are still progressing or B: (more likely) they think that if they whine enough, they can get the control scheme to change. Anyways, Nintendo has confirmed that they're still toying with the controls in Hunters and that there may be several options. PC FPS fans seem to pick up on the controls pretty quickly, while people used to dual analog (like myself) have a harder time moving around. I think that I would prefer a scheme that keeps action and movement on the buttons, but using the touch screen to select weapons, morph ball, etc.

But still, I think all of us really need to keep an open mind with the DS. One of the things that Miyamoto has expressed is that with the touch screen controls, it's going to bring everyone back to square one, and both new players and veterans are going to need to adjust to playing on it. It's an entirely different experience that's going to take time to adjust to no matter what.

Djunknown · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2004, 06:22:48 PM »

I guess controls are in the eye of the beholder, but one thing I never understood was dual analog scheme. Why have 2 inputs when it can be done with one? To answer my own question, lack of buttons?

if they tweaked the scheme in hunters and other FPS-hopefuls so that you use the stylus like mouseook for the PC, and use the buttons to shoot, change weapons, strafe, etc, like what Dyagaia said earlier, it may give it a leg up vs the PSP. Remember that it has the analog stick to the left, unless they make a last-minute design change. Unless you have an extra left hand, that may not bode so well. Here's an example of a customizable scheme:

X/B strafe left-right
A Shoot
Y free button (depends on game, maybe secondary fire, use button for doors and switches)
L cycle weapons
R move foward (quick double tap would move you backward)
Double tap Stylus to jump if applicable or use to open doors switches, interact with enviornment etc.

The main thing would be to for PC users to get accustomed using analog control on the left. Aside from that double tap R to move backwards, that's not a bad scheme is it? Or if right handers need that excruciating prescion, they can swap the stylus to the right, and map the buttons to the d-pad, and swap the shoulder buttons.

EDIT: some typos.

Oldskool · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2004, 10:18:31 PM »

Imagine Counter-Strike or Call of Duty on the DS, playing it with dozens of nearby and distant people wirelessly...

The controls sound a bit awkward, but then so did the Gamecube controller at first, until we got our hands on it and learned it was a controller sent by god. I am not worryng about Metroid Hunters.

Myxtika1 Azn · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2004, 10:58:12 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Djunknown
if they tweaked the scheme in hunters and other FPS-hopefuls so that you use the stylus like mouseook for the PC, and use the buttons to shoot, change weapons, strafe, etc, like what Dyagaia said earlier, it may give it a leg up vs the PSP. Remember that it has the analog stick to the left, unless they make a last-minute design change.

That control scheme seems a bit complicated. And having to use both the stylus and the buttons would be too awkward. Imagine having to use the stylus to move/look, then putting it down quickly to push a button to shoot. I don't think that it would work.

Bloodworth · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2004, 01:06:14 AM »

Well, in his mind you wouldn't use the control pad side at all, so it's a Southpaw-favored control scheme. The current Hunters setup mirrors the same functions on both sides, and there's no reason his couldn't too.

kirby_killer_dedede · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2004, 04:25:32 AM »

What do you mean? If you're saying that it supports both right-handers and lefties, that's definitely not what I've heard...i like DJ's idea better...map your own control scheme, and I think that's the way N-Space (they're developing it, no?) is going to go with this.

Uncle Rich AiAi · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2004, 06:20:12 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
N-Space (they're developing it, no?)

I believe it's NST.

Bloodworth · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2004, 07:24:43 AM »

Quote
What do you mean? If you're saying that it supports both right-handers and lefties, that's definitely not what I've heard...

The buttons on the right side act just like the cross pad in Hunters, so if you're left-handed you simply use the buttons on the right and put the stylus in your left hand.

Jale · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2004, 07:51:12 AM »

Either that or we are gonna see righthanded and left handed DS's

Draygaia · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2004, 10:45:36 AM »

"I mean, the DS could mean PC-quality FPS's on the go for the FIRST TIME EVER. I don't know...your thoughts on this, Metroid Hunters in general, and FPS's on the DS."

Consoles can already have PC-quality FPS's. For me I think the DS could have maybe something new to add to FPS's for the future.

kirby_killer_dedede · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2004, 01:43:48 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
I think either A: People don't seem to grasp that games at E3 are still progressing or B: (more likely) they think that if they whine enough, they can get the control scheme to change. Anyways, Nintendo has confirmed that they're still toying with the controls in Hunters and that there may be several options. PC FPS fans seem to pick up on the controls pretty quickly, while people used to dual analog (like myself) have a harder time moving around. I think that I would prefer a scheme that keeps action and movement on the buttons, but using the touch screen to select weapons, morph ball, etc.

But still, I think all of us really need to keep an open mind with the DS. One of the things that Miyamoto has expressed is that with the touch screen controls, it's going to bring everyone back to square one, and both new players and veterans are going to need to adjust to playing on it. It's an entirely different experience that's going to take time to adjust to no matter what.

This just in at Nintendojo...

Though I recall no news of this, in their latest mailbag, one writer refers to what seems to have become to main topic of this thread...left-handed gaming on the DS. Nintendojo replied by saying that Miyamoto-san has confirmed that the control scheme has officially been changed so that it does NOT REQUIRE the stylus, for a reason I don't have the time to say, so check it out. Bloodworth, I'm counting on you to confirm or deny this.

Blackknight131 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 26, 2004, 04:07:57 PM »

Dedede, that information was revealed in an interview Miyamoto had about a month or so ago.
He was talking about Hunters and control systems, and just mentioned that NST had taken all the criticism from E3 to heart and was developing an additional stylus-free control scheme.
Sorry Im too lazy to link to that interview...

kirby_killer_dedede · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2004, 05:50:52 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Blackknight131
Dedede, that information was revealed in an interview Miyamoto had about a month or so ago.
He was talking about Hunters and control systems, and just mentioned that NST had taken all the criticism from E3 to heart and was developing an additional stylus-free control scheme.
Sorry Im too lazy to link to that interview...

Interesting...I don't recall reading that. I'll go find it...heh heh *away*

joeamis · « **Reply #17 on:** July 26, 2004, 07:30:23 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
Quote
Originally posted by: Blackknight131
Dedede, that information was revealed in an interview Miyamoto had about a month or so ago.
He was talking about Hunters and control systems, and just mentioned that NST had taken all the criticism from E3 to heart and was developing an additional stylus-free control scheme.
Sorry Im too lazy to link to that interview...

Interesting...I don't recall reading that. I'll go find it...heh heh *away*

I remember reading that almost a month ago too, it's supposed to have both stylus and a more traditional control scheme. I think having both is the best bet. I'm all for using the stylus but the demos for MPH at E3 were connected to an arm so I've yet to read impressions about how it is to hold the DS with one hand while controlling with that hand while using the stylus in the other. I think it could become tiring after an amount of playtime to hold the screen with 1 hand so you can see both screens well while controlling with that same hand. Then it would be good to be able to switch to two handed play for awhile, and having both options available would also allow for people who can't adjust to the stylus or don't like it.

Jale · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2004, 02:13:46 AM »

Maybe we will see 3rd party (or even official Nintendo) stands for the DS, to save our poor wrists.

Uncle Rich AiAi · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2004, 03:35:45 AM »

Pfffffttt..............go to the gym and get your wrists/arm in shape!

kennyb27 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2004, 05:56:01 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Draygaia
"I mean, the DS could mean PC-quality FPS's on the go for the FIRST TIME EVER. I don't know...your thoughts on this, Metroid Hunters in general, and FPS's on the DS."

Consoles can already have PC-quality FPS's. For me I think the DS could have maybe something new to add to FPS's for the future.

I believe he was talking about the control scheme for PC first person shooters and the DS's ability to copy that with the stylus.

joeamis · « **Reply #21 on:** July 27, 2004, 01:48:29 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Uncle Rich AiAi
Pfffffttt..............go to the gym and get your wrists/arm in shape!

it's not just tiring in a physical sense, but also trying to keep both screens aligned to your sight constantly mentally while you're moving the unit by controlling fast paced fps with the same hand. (like keeping a video camera from shaking) And the physical problem will be there for the younger players.

Uncle Rich AiAi · « **Reply #22 on:** July 28, 2004, 09:26:09 PM »

Dude, I was kidding! Noticed the "

"? Not all of my posts are serious!

bongo7601 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 23, 2004, 05:19:50 PM »

We have all seen the Metroid DS control scheme shown at this years E3 utilizing the touch screen for movement. Many people, including my self, were disatisfied with the addition because of the
fustrating control method
using the stylus. Also, this different way of controlling the character did not allow the player to shoot at the same time while looking around. I believe this new way of controlling characters in FPS enviroments shows a lot of promise, but needs some new thinking to make it work effectively.

Now what I propose is, in my opinion, the best control scheme for Metroid Hunters or any other game requiring this new control methed.

The original gaming interface consisted of a full map on the top screen and the gameplay on the lower touch screen. This enabled you to touch the screen to look around and fire at enemies, just not at the same time.

What if the game creators moved the map from the top screen to the bottom, but only filled say 3/4 of the screen? The remainder of the screen would have a dedicated control touch interface where you would position the sylus in the center default "area" and look around by moving it up, down, left and right. On the top of this interface would have the controls to switch between the visors, morph ball and weapons.
The main gameplay would of course fill the entire top screen of the DS.

Now your probably going to say "that's great but you still can't look around and fire at the same time!!"
Well that all comes down to my hardware addition to the DS. Hmmm...well more like a simple change in the stylus itself. Imagine if the engineers attached a retractable wire to the stylus and equiped it with a button.....With this setup, the stylus would be used to look around utilizing the new touch interface AND allow the player with there index finger to FIRE there weapon at the SAME TIME. This would allow a mouse type of control input.

The whole control sheme would operate like this:

D-pad and left shoulder button

To move foward or back, press the d-pad up or down.
To strafe, press left or right on the dpad.
To lock-on, press the left shoulder button.

New touch interface

To look around just move the stylus around the touch interface and to center yourself, move to the default interface positon.
To fire your weapon, just press the sylus button with your index finger, hold down to charge your shot.
Select various weapon and visor changes by just touching thier icons.

I of course welcome any suggestions or flaws with this new control scheme.

kurst_chao3030 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 23, 2004, 06:12:21 PM »

well its a good idea...but, there are still many flaws...so:
How will the DS be able to sense the extra wire as a different touch action.
If it could, how on the touch interface to aim, would you be able to aim the full screen size on a small targeting area, wouldn't you have to drag it like a mouse on a small mouse pad, on a big computer screen? That would mean pressing back down on a more centered spot and shooting.
If your always focusing on the top screen, wouldn't when you aim you accidently move the stylus a little to far off the aiming touch interface and hit one of the item buttons.
The map idea is good, I can actually see it better though as a transparent backdrop on the bottom screen.

So anyway, the worst flaw is really just the stylus wire but as I said. If you could, draw a demonstration of your idea, scan it, and try posting it. Its still good idea though.

News:

Author Topic: Hunters - I don't get the press's freaking problem (Metroid/FPS discussion) (Read 8861 times)