Topic: E3 Thoughts

[JoeSmashBro]

Wow, you people amaze me. I used to post at this site back in the day when the Cube first arrived and throughout the following year or so, and back then people were PINING for ANY game, let alone a Nintendo masterpiece. People (including me) were complaining that the Cube needed more games, and a lot more by Nintendo and it was taking WAAAY too long for the cornerstone franchises to come (Mario Kart, Sunshine, Prime, Zelda, F-Zero all took waaaaay too long). No Nintendo's finally churning out the games the way they should and you guys are complaining!!

Mario has been milked for all it's worth since Donkey Kong came out and it's still not out, so I wouldn't worry about it... Nintendo has the greatest franchises in video game history and they still underplay them to an effect (barring the Mario characters.) Enjoy the feast! Stop complaining!

[Bill Aurion]

Honestly, quit bitching about sequels...As long as they are amazing(cue Metroid(all 5 that have been or will soon be released) and Zelda (Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Zelda X)) it doesn't matter...

[nolimit19]

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Originally posted by: Koopa Troopa
If I died now, I would die happy.

no matter how sick it sounds, i'm feeling it.

[akdaman1]

No matter how great Prime was its not worth having a sequel already.

Graphiclly Retro cant do much more. Prime was pretty much perfect and I really cant see how they can improve on it. Nintendo have plenty of unused franchises ( Kid Ikarus, Earthbound, Golden Sun ) which could take Primes place. Im not gonna say that Prime 2 will be a bad game, no way I know it will be a kick ass game BUT it will lose its charm. I would prefer it on a new system with new features.

Viewtiful Joe 2 is the worst ever case of cash-in success. I mean besides the Co-op mode it really does not change anything from the original Joe. Joe still has the same moves. Sylvia might have changed but so what. Its not enough to warrent a sequel. Wait for a new console and put it on there.

Zelda on the otherhand is alright like Ian said. It takes the franchise in a new direction and there is absoulotly no problem with that.

Professional - I agree with you and am very willing to support Donky Konga and Jungles Beat.

Ian - I agree with you on every point except that - If there is a sequel on the SAME console it should be changed. Games like Metriod should not be milked. Because eventually there will be no original ideas. I love the Metroid series but I would rather the games come in a waiting period ( Like RE4 ). RE 4 has so much hype simply because of the slow process that Capcom has been letting out the info.

I also want to point out that in my eyes some of the best games of the show have been originals - Geist, Advance Wars ( I count this as a original ) and Fire Emblem ( I know there are heaps but for us people in Australia this is the FIRST we have seen of Fire Emblem ( except for the gba version ). Also other games such as Konga and Jungle Beat are originals and have proved to be quite a hit at the show. Also Odama and Second Sight have made quite a splash. The best games are always orginal.

[Uncle Rich AiAi]

I agree w/ akdaman1 here.  I too, feel Nintendo is milking some of their franchises (and Capcom w/ VJ).

I have no problem w/ MP2, but, to me, there appears to be too many Metriod games right now.  I mean, the 2 GBA games, and now a DS game.  We had to wait 8 years after Super Metriod for new one, and now we are getting a whole bunch in the span of 2-2.5 years.  Personally, I think it would have been better if Nintendo would have widen that time span.

Zelda.  Well, it's Zelda.  Like Ian said, 2 Zelda per gen. is good.  We are getting a new GBA Zelda game which is good (I don't really count LttP as new, 'cos I didn't play the multiplayer part), plus Four Swords.  But again, too many Zelda games in a short time span (yes, I know Zelda GC is more than a year away).  I'm not saying I'm not interested in the Minish Cap, hell, I am, as it has new gameplay aspects which has me really interested.  Then, chances are, there will be a Zelda DS game in the horizon.........too much.


I know I'll be making some enemies with this post...

[akdaman1]

Dont worry AiAi. I will help you take anyone out if they flame you.

Also I made an E3 awards topic in the Gamecube section. Go there to write what you thought was game of the Show etc.

[Plugabugz]

Maybe nintendo are trying to fill the gap by those 8 years between Super Metroid and now.

Prime 2 should exist because theoretically Prime was for the 64 - because there wasn't one. I wouldn't like to see a third on the cube, and I doubt we will. That and I would like to see Retro get creative elsewhere with say another game in the meantime.

[Mario]

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Viewtiful Joe 2 is the worst ever case of cash-in success. I mean besides the Co-op mode it really does not change anything from the original Joe. Joe still has the same moves. Sylvia might have changed but so what. Its not enough to warrent a sequel. Wait for a new console and put it on there.

VIEWTIFUL JOE CASH-IN? That's the dumbest thing i've ever read. I love Capcom for giving us a sequel to Viewtiful Joe, if you loved the first one, what's not to look forward to in this one? New areas, new enemies, new moves, new gameplay elements, sounds like every other sequel to me. I crave more Viewtiful Joe action.

Metroid Prime deserves Metroid Prime 2 as much as Ocarina of Time deserves Majora's Mask. Metroid Prime 2 is fine by me.

[The Omen]

It is not too soon for great sequels.  'Milking' is being thrown around here, which would put Metroid Echoes and VJ2 in the same class as the Tomb Raider series.  Is that what youre implying, Akdaman1?  To be milking a franchise, I think you need at least 3 generic releases in one generation.  I expect each of these to be even greater than the previous incarnation, with enough variations to be fresh.  Echoes has the multi-player, and VJ2 has the Co-op.  Those base differences alone are worth it.  And the Echoes story reminds me of the best game of all time, ALTTP.  No problems with that  

[Termin8Anakin]

I'm also a little on the 'zweh?' side as to how many sequels and spinoffs of each franchise there are.
Mario Pinball, Mario Party SIX, Paper Mario, Zelda Four Sword Adventures, Mimmish Cap, all these pac-man games, the countless Megaman games, yikes.

And I think the reason why Nintendo are holding back their other franchises is because they're something to look forward to on Nintendo Revolution!
No need to do EVERYTHING now!

[DrZoidberg]

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Dont worry AiAi. I will help you take anyone out if they flame you.

ahahahhahahahaha.

I hear fun games get sequels, is this true? does that also mean people get to have more fun with a second title? radicakes if true.

[Bill Aurion]

"I hear fun games get sequels, is this true?"

Crappy games get sequels too...   (Jak, Sly Cooper, Tomb Raider, Blinx etc...)

[almondblight]

The thing about sequals so close to the originals release is that they often have minor differences, but are overall more of the same.  If they worked on something else now, and then made the sequal for the next generation, we would have a new game now to explore, and then get used to all the new elements they added for the next generation title, as well as re-aquaint ourselves with all the old gameplay elements we had forgotten about by then.  I think the only problem with this is that it takes a longer time to make new franchises then to do sequals.

My main problem isn't that there are these sequals (/franchise titles), it's that these sequals seem to be the main focus of the show, with very few original titles.  Even half sequals/half new stuff would be alright with me, but this seems to be all sequals with a couple new games.

[akdaman1]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario

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Viewtiful Joe 2 is the worst ever case of cash-in success. I mean besides the Co-op mode it really does not change anything from the original Joe. Joe still has the same moves. Sylvia might have changed but so what. Its not enough to warrent a sequel. Wait for a new console and put it on there.

VIEWTIFUL JOE CASH-IN? That's the dumbest thing i've ever read. I love Capcom for giving us a sequel to Viewtiful Joe, if you loved the first one, what's not to look forward to in this one? New areas, new enemies, new moves, new gameplay elements, sounds like every other sequel to me. I crave more Viewtiful Joe action.

Metroid Prime deserves Metroid Prime 2 as much as Ocarina of Time deserves Majora's Mask. Metroid Prime 2 is fine by me.

I wouldnt mind another Viewtiful Joe but in the first hasnt even been out here for 7 months. So far there hasnt been much change from the first one. Every single impression I read says that it is almost exaclty like the first ( which is both good and bad ). I know there is co-op and it looks AWSOME but I dont believe its enough to warrent a sequel. I am gonna get this game no doubt. But what about the other Viewtiful Joes ? DS Joe. PSP Joe. PS2 Joe 1 and Joe 2. Too much Joe. When  there are 5-7 different games in the 1 series coming out withing the span of 1-2 years then yes it is a cash-in success.

Im not too against Metroid Prime 2 but to me it sounds very similar to Fusion. There is a multi-player but to me its still not enough to warrent a sequel to be out within the year. I would have LOVED to see Prime 2 at next E3 but seeing it at e3 04 is too early. Also you cant really compare the Metroid series to the Zelda series. Its hard to explain but how different can an Adventure game get from it previous incarnation? Very, New area, New storyline, New weapons etc. This cant rreally be the same for a FPS/A. Sure there will be new weapons and enimies but .....ahhh too hard to explain. Just stay open minded and you will understand what im trying to say.

Edit **** Perfectly put Almondblight.  

[joeamis]

I agree with almond be light, akdaman1, and Ian Sane (tends to happen on every issue with Ian maybe he's my clone).  For me the games I look forward to the most from E3 for GC are Geist, Dk Jungle Beat, Advance Wars, Starfox, Resident Evil 4, TOS, PM2, and to a lesser extent Zelda.  I have absolutely no interest 0% in MP2, VJ2.  All the games I listed are either original, haven't seen a sequel in many many years, or are a sequel that takes the game in a very new direction.  And I list games that according to impressions need alot of work, but originality is key for me, it's better to have new stuff than recycled ideas.

There is a problem with too many sequels, saturation.  It's what happened to Sonic way back and it caused sales of Sonic games to plummet, become stale in gameplay, and the result was a total abandon of Sonic for a number of years.  That's a single case, another case is of the industry as a whole with saturation.  Innovation and original ideas are what drive the industry (DS), sequels are a major contributor to stagnation and saturation.  Without innovation and original ideas you could see something like the crash of the 80's.  The major problem though is sequels to soon after the last game.

One last thing, almond said that it takes longer to make a new franchise than to do a sequel.  Couldn't be more true.  I think developers should use the same game engines more for new games than sequels that would have been made with those engines, it worked well with using the engine from Super Mario 64 for Super Mario Kart 64 instead of a Super Mario 64 2.

[akdaman1]

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Originally posted by: Bill
"I hear fun games get sequels, is this true?"

Crappy games get sequels too...   (Jak, Sly Cooper, Tomb Raider, Blinx etc...)

I have to disagree with you on Sly and Jak. They are both awsome games. I wont comment on the rest because I havent played them. Also Jak is intended to be a trilogy so a 3 games on the same console o.k with it.

P.S - What happened to Miyamotos DS game Buzz?  

[The Omen]

This is possibly the most asinine argument ever.  The reason?  If Nintendo were to announce only original titles, people would bitch endlessly.  Funny that Nintendo does what the majority of GC owners want, and people bitch, endlessly.

And joeamis, if you agree with Ian, then you realize that he's for MP2 and Zelda, right?
You bring up Sonic, but you're dealing with possibly the worst company of the 90's, in terms of business decisions.  In fact, any decisions.

I think some of you like to starve for games.   Grown to love the hurt of having 1 great game of each Nintendo franchise once every 5 years,  if you're lucky.   Masochists.  

And Echoes will not be out within one year of Prime, it'll be at least 2.  Considering Retro were probably working on the base of Echoes at the latter stages of Prime, the game could be going on two years development time right now.

[Perfect Cell]

This is possibly the most asinine argument ever


I agree... Metroid has hardly been used, Complaining that metroid has been cash cowed is stupid. There were 3 Metroid Games before the Gamecube... none on the N64. If you want to complain about miling franchise, theres only one example... Mario... All the Mario Advance ports, the countless Mario Party Rehashes. Mario Golf ect ect ect...

Would i like to see old franchises brought back? heck yeah id love Punch Out, Exitebike, Star Tropics and Kid Icarus... but it seems Nintendo doesnt want it.

Nintendo still has original games... How bout that Odama thing? didnt think so

[akdaman1]

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Originally posted by: The Omen
This is possibly the most asinine argument ever.  The reason?  If Nintendo were to announce only original titles, people would bitch endlessly.  Funny that Nintendo does what the majority of GC owners want, and people bitch, endlessly.

I think some of you like to starve for games.   Grown to love the hurt of having 1 great game of each Nintendo franchise once every 5 years,  if you're lucky.   Masochists.  

You got the first part wrong. We all want another Metroid but why so soon? Maybe show it off 2 years after first release. Then release it in the 3rd year.

Also if we were able to get 1 game per 5 years then that would be AWSOME.

[Shift Key]

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We all want another Metroid but why so soon? Maybe show it off 2 years after first release. Then release it in the 3rd year.
Also if we were able to get 1 game per 5 years then that would be AWSOME.

Ahahahahahaha, sure, starvation makes food taste better too am i rite? Five years is about the lifespan of a console, and if developers followed those rules, there'd be a lot of bored gamers and a lot of bankrupt developers. Get real, ak.

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Jak is intended to be a trilogy

Sure it is. Remember the Matrix? That wasn't meant to be a trilogy either, but it happened, and I'd rather forget those two sequels. But that's for another rant. Moral of the story - planned or unplanned, sequels suck when done badly *nods*

But its the way of the world - a good (or mediocre) game usually gets a sequel because
1. Fanboy outcry
2. Executive decision to milk the franchise
3. Alignment of planets

I'd say Zelda falls into number 1.

[akdaman1]

Quote
Originally posted by: Shifty

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We all want another Metroid but why so soon? Maybe show it off 2 years after first release. Then release it in the 3rd year.
Also if we were able to get 1 game per 5 years then that would be AWSOME.

Ahahahahahaha, sure, starvation makes food taste better too am i rite? Five years is about the lifespan of a console, and if developers followed those rules, there'd be a lot of bored gamers and a lot of bankrupt developers. Get real, ak.
.

Yep. Food does taste better after starvation. I love sequels but originality is the way to go. Maybe I exaggerated my statement before. Maybe 1 sequel per 3 years.

[The Omen]

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Yep. Food does taste better after starvation. I love sequels but originality is the way to go. Maybe I exaggerated my statement before. Maybe 1 sequel per 3 years.

So does dirt, but thats neither here nor there.

You're missing the point.  Instead of worrying about a Metroid game released 2 years after the previous incarnation, look at it this way-2 Metroids in the consoles life cycle.  Surely you have no problem with that?

I also have no problem with the Mario games, because they're fun.  Sure we probably don't need 6 Mario Party games, but they sell.  I understand why they're made.  I have Mario Party 2 and 5.  Just realize there are people who own a few of these games.  Making one every year ensures you at least buy one of the versions.  I don't know anybody who has more than two, and thats the point-let the consumer pick and choose what he/she wants.  You don't like a few updates?  Then stick with MP1.  And theres only 2 Mario Golf games, 3 if you count advance.  But its great fun.  Why bitch about a fun game?  I understand the problem with the rereleased NES/SNES titles on the GBA, but frankly, they are selling well.  Somebody wants them.  I don't want them in place of original titles, but I do want them.  Be happy with Geist, Advance Wars GC, Fire Emblem GC, and Pikmin 2(still sort of new IMO).   I'm very happy with them- and MP:Echoes/Hunters, Zelda/Minnish, DK, and Mario and Wario DS.

[Koopa Troopa]

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I have to disagree with you on Sly and Jak. They are both awsome games. I wont comment on the rest because I havent played them. Also Jak is intended to be a trilogy so a 3 games on the same console o.k with it.

Sly is pretty good. Jak sucked. Sucked hard. And I really can't believe you just said three Jaks in three years is OK, what a hypocrite. OOoo it is supposed to be a trilogy. What the hell does that matter? It's still three games on one console in less than four years.  It isn't as if the story even warrants three games, and the tired gameplay definitely does not.

Your entire foundation just crumbled, you can't piss and moan about Metroid or VJ and then in the same breath praise rubbish like Jak and grant it special amnesty.  

[Mario]

It's all subjective, Jak isn't rubbish, I like it. It's good, and so is VJ. Games I like, getting sequels = more fun to be had by me = me happy. Or whatever.

You're all wrong.

[Bill Aurion]

Two Metroids is a no-no, but three Jaks is ok...

Right...