Topic: Gameboy Evolution & 2 GameCube Next teams

[BlackNMild2k1]

Pure speculation or Insider info?
you tell me

http://www.nintendowatch.com/  

[Zeks]

Honestly, Im sort of a 'techie' myself, but theyre pretty close in performance vs ease of development. I think they'll go with the #2 Specs.


Why?:

-Duel-Processors would match what Iwata-san's been yapping about in regards to the DS as a "hint to the next generation of hardware".

-Yes the duel-cpu set up would be more difficult for developers. But it would still be more simple than what MS and Sony are doing. Plus, the minds behind the GC's architecture could come up with some engineous dev-kits to help developers alot with the duel-setup.

-#2 Specs may have slightly less RAM than #1, but it MORE than makes up for it, being GDDR3 compared to (slow)DDR.

-Heat disipation would be close(Cpus/Gpus), but being an ATi 9800 owner I know a 600mhz card would put off alot more than a 500mhz card(they run very warm already today). Not to mention the added transistors and the many possible uses they could be for, as pointed out in the article. But the heat would be less as the new card would be manufactured at a much smaller die size than toaday's Radeon 300/350 line, so its moot to argue this currently.

-In favor of #2 Specs: Price is close, but I think the price difference between the Duel-1.8Ghz G5's vs the 2.7Ghz would be more than the difference between 512MB DDR vs 256MB DDR & 128MB GDDR3.


We all have seen how important bandwidth and RAM speed are with the GC vs the XB. Not to mention Memory and bandwidth will do more for your system than a faster processor would(i.e. when upgrading). All in all, I think that if they can develop the dev-kits to simplify programming with duel-cpus to optimize performance, thus utilizing #2 Specs' memory and bandwidth advantage over #1 Specs, then they will go with #2 Specs or something close.  

[BigJim]

I trust neither. It's an admitted "no track record" "informant" and who is Nintendowatch to have such a source?

I doubt they'll even make 15 GB hard drives in 2 years.  It'd be cheaper to use 40 or 60 by then since 15GB would be a special-order product.

[- NintendoFan -]

N-Sider has also written an article on the subject.... Exclusive: Potential Next-Gen Specs

[manunited4eva22]

Why I don't buy it: bluetooth.  The most utterly wasteful standard ever created.

About the whole speed thing:  that is relative to process size.  Assuming in two years ATI will be on either 90 nanometer or 100, I doubt that it would be too difficult of a task. This time, power will be the issue.  Dual cores still draws a lot of power, as does any high end GPU.

[Ian Sane]

"The system will feature backwards compatibility, but not in the same way the GBA plays old Game Boy games. Supposedly there will be a device that will allow you to download games from their carts into a harddrive-like element of the new Game Boy."

Gotta love the potential for piracy there.  That doesn't sound like something Nintendo would do and it's pretty impractical.  Instead of including a hard drive thingy just use that physical space for a cartridge slot.

I LOVE the idea of having a hard drive in the N5.  About ten years ago when I was a kid I designed my dream console and it had three main elements: CD medium, four controller ports, and a hard drive.  Interestingly enough all three of those elements have been successfully incorporated into consoles.  MS had the right idea in including a hard drive out of the box but they never really used it for anything beyond game saves or custom soundtracks.  Sure it was more convienent but there aren't really any Xbox games that required the hard drive to work.

Nintendo on the other hand is much more creative than Microsoft so if they put a hard drive in as a standard you know they make some games that make full use of it.  Afterall they did make the 64DD and have interest in rewritable capabilities.  And best of all neither of the competiting consoles are rumoured to include hard drives which gives Nintendo an advantage.  How funny would it be for MS to introduce something to the console market only to abandon it themselves and have a competitor adopt it and have an advantage doing so?

"I doubt they'll even make 15 GB hard drives in 2 years. It'd be cheaper to use 40 or 60 by then since 15GB would be a special-order product."

I agree.  Plus Nintendo ran into third party trouble this gen because of smaller disc and memory card sizes.  I mean 15GB SHOULD be enough but never underestimate the ability of third parties to create bloatware.  I'm sure Nintendo will never need more than 15GB but those lazy bums at EA will so Nintendo might as well give third parties more flexibility in slacking off.

"Case design philosophy more like the N64, less like the GameCube"

Ahh, they've learned something.  Consoles that look cool sell better than consoles that look like toys.

"Potential DVD playback"

That doesn't realy sound like something Nintendo would do unless they've either

a. figured that lack of this feature hurt sales so they might as well throw it in to be safe.
b. are using a DVD standard format this time and thus are including it since the technology is already there.

"Blue-laser disk technology"

Sounds cool and would match the rumoured PS3 specs.  But what format would Nintendo go with?  Blue-ray or HD DVD?  Realistically it doesn't matter to me what format they use but if one costs significantly less they should go with it.  Anti-piracy naturally should be an issue in the decision.  Knowing Nintendo they might just go with their own original format.  One thing I do want them to keep though is the physical size of the Cube disc.  I don't really have a good reason for that I just find the smaller size really cool and convienent.

This stuff could very well be a bunch of BS but this is fun to talk about so who cares.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ian Sane wrote

Quote
But what format would Nintendo go with? Blue-ray or HD DVD? Realistically it doesn't matter to me what format they use but if one costs significantly less they should go with it. Anti-piracy naturally should be an issue in the decision. Knowing Nintendo they might just go with their own original format. One thing I do want them to keep though is the physical size of the Cube disc. I don't really have a good reason for that I just find the smaller size really cool and convienent

from the article

Quote
Due to Nintendo's relationship with Matsushita, it is my opinion that if Nintendo went with a blue laser format, it would go with the Matsushita backed Blu-ray standard. Of course, knowing Nintendo, it’s entirely possible they are using some other format, or even one they made up on their own (perhaps 5GB GCN sized discs?).

[Zeks]

Damn, just shoot the poor man down lol .

[Draygaia]

I'd like to go for the second version if it is true.  It fits the idea of new technology but not trying to be the fastest for the most powerful.  Nintendo said that.  Plus they don't need that much even if they use copper like they did with the GCN.  They'll be ahead of PC games.

[- NintendoFan -]

Quote
15GB is way small though - I don't see much in the way of downloaded content.

This is what I don't get, how is 15GB way to small? That is more then enough space for downloaded content, hell that's even more then enough for Soundtracks and music.

[- NintendoFan -]

Also, they say that the graphics processor is going to be as fast as a desktop one, but as I always thought that it isn't needed in a console. Having one would inturn would make the console have at least twice as good graphics as any desktop PC. But someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think one of the problems with the 15gig hd, is that in 2006 (when GCNext is supposed to be released) that will be a custom HD and therefore will end up costing more than maybe a 40gig hd.

But knowing Nintendo they won't have a standard HD at all, and instead have suom sort of proprietary memory device, kinda like that prototype miniHD that IBM had made for the N64/GC.

[Zeks]

Yo Black, actaully in the article it does state blue-laser disk technology in part of the supposed specs, so Ian Sane can read.  Just had to point that out bub.

Besides they 'could' use their own format but who knows.  As long as Developers have enough room they'll be fine, if theyre smart they'll 'create' their own format with just as much storage, maybe some creative/good encription techniques etc(Basically Blue-Ray/HD DVD with copy protection etc.).  And I think the HD, if it will be included, will be upped to atleast 30GB or more.  But this only gives us a good idea, if not true, if it is true Id bet it will go under a few revisions.  Time for E3.  

[BlackNMild2k1]

I know it says blue laser, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are both blue laser technology, just different formats.

Quote
There are two major blue-laser formats being developed: the popular Blue-ray format, and HD DVD.

I was just stating the opinion of one of the editors who said if they were still aligned with Matsushita (Panasonic) they would probably go with Blu-Ray cause that is the format that Matsushita is backing.

[Zeks]

Yeah I agree on that too.  If theyre smart, IMO, theyd stay with Panasonic and do Blue Ray.  That way, its cheaper for them since they can use Panasonics 'discount' lol.  Not to mention 3rd parties wont have anything to bitch about, and they can impose whatever copy protection ideas they want.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Not to mention that Blu-Ray comes in a re-writable format, so no more memory cards would be need, unless you wanted to load data at a friends house on their game.

[KDR_11k]

They wouldn't use standard HDs. They're too large, both in physical and storage size. Hell, what would you do with a 80GB HD? Store games on it. And Nintendo doesn't like that prospect.

[Zeks]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
They wouldn't use standard HDs. They're too large, both in physical and storage size. Hell, what would you do with a 80GB HD? Store games on it. And Nintendo doesn't like that prospect.

Exactly, people whine and moan about HD size.  ONLY argument I see is what the general dumb consumer sees:" Ooo lookie, a bigger HD than that one, I can store more stuff on there so ill get this console instead".  Only problem is, like KDR said, theres nothing to freaking fill up 50-80GB with.  Wont be games cause then theyre would be piracy out the wazoo.  Game saves arent going to cut it, I dont care how big the damn game is.  The biggest games these days are no bigger than approx. 3.2GB at MAX, updates/patches/extras/saves wont even take up anymore than 2-3 GB at best.  And that would be for a huge ass(FF23 lol) game.  If anything, 15GB would be for the choice of saving ur games there, extras, downloadble demos etc, stuff like that.=pleanty of space

[BlackNMild2k1]

I personally think Nintendo would go with something of a solid-state nature, more like a 15-25gb flash drive. You know, something more sturdy with no moving parts, no skipping, no breaking, and also alot more compact.

[Rich]

Don't Blue ray disks cost alot

[Zeks]

Rich, they costs alot NOW, but probably in the next 2 yrs the prices will go down.  And with Panasonic as a partner, who supports the blu ray standard, can give Nintendo and even  more of a 'discount' on production etc.  Thats IF theyre still partnered with Panasnoic, and IF theyre gonna use blue ray.  Time will tell .

[- NintendoFan -]

Quote
According to the Blu-ray Disc Founders (BDF), Blu-ray Disc will offer by far the highest capacity of any optical disc storage format ever developed for consumers, and yet the production costs of manufacturing Blu-ray Discs is expected to be comparable to current DVDs when manufactured at mass volumes. "Capacity and cost savings were the major reasons HP and other industry leaders chose to support Blu-ray Disc," said Maureen Weber, general manager of HP's Optical Storage Solutions. "The PC business revolves around volume and cost; and, the fact that the most logical cost choice also offers far better quality - as well as a smooth transition plan that is both forward- and backward-looking - is icing on the cake."

Link: http://www.blu-ray.com/

I guess they are the same cost as a DVD.

[Mannypon]

I dont know much about the technical info here but everything does seem to be goin good.  I'm leaning towards the second specs merely becuase of nintendo sayin that the nintendo ds was a hint of what is to come (duel processors).  I hope they do have a hd and use blue-ray becuase they can open up alot of customization to games (which I love, helps replayability)  I was one of the few lookin forward to the 64dd back in the days and hopefully they can implement all the ideas they had for that add on to the new generation system.  I remember nintendo demonstrating earthbound for 64dd (with pics) stating that with the rewriteable disks, they could have the world of earthbound ever changing.  They used an example that whatever you did to the world, over time , you'll see the affects (planting seeds, years later in game time, there would be a tree in place).  I hope they bring those type of ideas back.  Also, I think they should forget the gamecube and n64 designs and take it back to the oldschool.  Make it look like a slimmer N.E.S. 4 controler ports and a tray for the disks right where the slot for the NES cartridges used to be.  The power and reset buttons will be placed in the same place also.  I think with the current success of their retro gameboy sp and games that a retro N5 would really be a hit in japan.  

[Rich]

Another thing. Some of you guys mentioned that the blu-ray disks are rewritable. Now does this give the developers the opportunity to just save info on the actual disk itself. I think that would be really sweet.

[Mannypon]

I dont know the exact details so hopefully someone in the know can elaborate but I think you can.  I think there is an amount of space on the disk designated to be rewritable and on that space things can be saved ( I dont know if its by the user or the game istelf can change aspects on the game on the fly and then save it to that section)