Topic: "Likely to cost over $99"

[jasonditz]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2004-04-05-portable-video_x.htm


Not terribly interesting in that I'm sure we'd all figured that out on our own.

At any rate, would the Vice President of Marketing at NOA give the price at "over $99" unless it was within the ballpark?

I mean, wouldn't that be a pretty dumb statement if they release the thing at $499 or something? I'd say this lends support to the $149 theory, although maybe $129 isn't out of the question. Or $149 with a game?

[Ian Sane]

Doesn't the GBA SP cost $99?  He might just be saying that to indicate it costs more than the current Nintendo portable.  I don't think it would be like $499 but it probably could be anywhere up to $200.

Considering all this "third pillar" talk Nintendo probably thinks they could price it at any amount since this is supposedly something different than the Cube or GBA and thus doesn' t have to have similar pricing.  I certainly hope that isn't the case but who knows.  We haven't even seen it yet.  For all we know we'll think $499 is a great deal after seeing it.

[KDR_11k]

BFD, the PSP will retail for 450$, so N still isn't in the dangerous area.

[jasonditz]

I still think $150 will be the sweet spot for the price (better still if it comes with a game). The PSP at $450 is absolutely insane. That's no way to build market share, and Sony could be heading for a big fall if they think they can. Especially if, as early reports indicate, the DS is on par with it graphically.

For $450 Sony better slap at least 6 screens on that thing if I'm going to even consider it.

[KDR_11k]

The whole problem is that portables are more expensive to produce than home devices. A lot more. Mobile phones cost 300 and upwards new (you get 'em cheaper due to sponsoring), PDAs go for a coupl'a hundred as well and don't even get me started on laptops. However, people compare the technical power of the devices to those of e.g. home consoles and expect them to be cheaper because of that. A GBA might not come close to the power of a GC, but it probably costs about the same to make. The PSP will be a powerful multifunction device, which are by definition pretty expensive (because you need special components, licenses and software for most tasks) and it will be handheld. 400 dollars for this device is pretty good in PDA terms (especially since the PSP will probably be more powerful in almost every respect than 800 dollar hi-end PDAs), but gamers just expect things to cost less than the "serious" machines.  

[Bill Aurion]

I have a feeling the DS will start off with a price tag of 200 dollars...Which really isn't that bad considering what KDR has already said about handheld technology...

[Draygaia]

Well if everybody out there can look at the DS as a "third pillar" then hopefully they can understand the price otherwise high prices on just another handheld already predicts the death.  

[kennyb27]

Where is everyone getting this $450 price tag for the PSP?

[ruby_onix]

An interview with Sony Europe's president.

Quote
Deering stated that the system would diverge from Sony's traditional console business model by being sold at a price which would make a profit on hardware alone, and suggested a price "closer to £200 than £300."

This comment ties in with information from Japanese retail sources earlier this week, who told us that a price point around 50,000 Yen was being bandied about in Tokyo - in fact, the most exact figure we were given was 48,000 Yen, almost exactly £250.

Currency exchange calculator.

Edit: By the way, I don't know if that price rumor takes the PSP's updated RAM specs into consideration.

A few days after this pricing info came out, we also learned that Sony had finally accepted developer complaints that their so-called "massive" spec of 8 Mb (that means "megabits", right?) of RAM was actually insufficent, so they quadrupled it, making it 32 Mb.

For reference, the NDS is rumored to have "4 Mbytes" of RAM (unless there's a typo or mixup somewhere, which may have suckered IGN too, that's the same size as the 32 megabits of the "upgraded" PSP).

Edit: Upon further checking, it does seem that the PSP initially boasted 8 megabytes of RAM (GameSpot, IGN), so it was likely increased to 32MB, not 32Mb.

[KDR_11k]

Yeah, RAM is usually measured in byte, not bit.

Since the DS is a cartridge based system it can have a smaller RAM because it doesn't take long to load things from the disk. Think Metroid Prime without door opening delays or read errors.

[jasonditz]

If the PSP is going to have any kind of skip protection, it seems like its going to need to have more than a couple MB of RAM.

That "disc-based" thing is a really bad idea. I'm still not sold on them for stationary consoles (I want my cartridges!), let alone a handheld.

[KDR_11k]

I think they're acceptable on home devices as long as the loadtimes don't get excessive (cough resident evil outbreak cough). With most Cube games they're not longer than a few seconds, so no real problem there.

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
If the PSP is going to have any kind of skip protection, it seems like its going to need to have more than a couple MB of RAM.

That "disc-based" thing is a really bad idea. I'm still not sold on them for stationary consoles (I want my cartridges!), let alone a handheld.

How much ram do portable cd-players have for skip protection?

[KDR_11k]

A few kilobytes up to a megabyte I'd guess. The PSP doesn't need this kind of skip protection, after all it doesn't need to stream data in realtime unless you're playing a game full of FMVs. It needs a good error detection to tell what needs to be reread, data works differently from music.

[jasonditz]

For an audio CD player you'd need somewhere between 1 MB and 1.5 MB depending on how long the skip protection is.

The PSP probably is going to either need similar data protection or a really good read-ahead algorithm. Simply relying on error detection and rereading the data isn't going to cut it unless the only games you're playing are either turn-based or load the entire level into RAM before the action starts. If you just say "you can't ever stream data in realtime" you're going to severely limit the quality of the games you can make.  

[- NintendoFan -]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k:

I think they're acceptable on home devices as long as the loadtimes don't get excessive (cough resident evil outbreak cough). With most Cube games they're not longer than a few seconds, so no real problem there.

I see nothing wrong with alittle loading time, not only does it give me time to make a sandwhich, but I can also use the bathroom and be back in time before it finishes......

[KDR_11k]

jason: How many games actually stream from the disc? In most games you load at the start of a level or at certain points (doorways, corridors, etc)

[jasonditz]

That's true of some games, but not all. Any time you've got very large areas between "load points" there's going to be some loading done on the fly. A game like GTA3 couldn't possibly load all the graphics, audio effects, etc for an entire segment of the city all at once so it has to predict which data the user is going to need soon and tries to "keep it ready".

If that same program has to worry about keeping the data ready as well as having to recover from media skips its going to be very difficult, and its going to lag in some cases.

The only way I can see around that problem would be an obscenely fast drive. But that's impractical on a handheld because of power consumption.

[BlkPaladin]

I have say they are going to have alot for skip protection. Since if a jolt came during an unopertune time it could make a game unplable. If there isn't some good skip protection on the machine there will be alot of players complaining about game crashing on the machine.

[KDR_11k]

A skip protection just rereads a part that it got errors from, so the loading delays would be the same. Games streaming from the disc usually don't stream in realtime (i.e. stuff isn't loaded the exact moment it is needed, but when it might be needed soon), so you can tolerate longer load times. It's something different with movies and music, which are played back as fast as they are read and therefore a delay would cause a visible error. Basically games already have some kind of skip protection .

[jasonditz]

You're right, I just think on a handheld they're going to need more memory so they can load ahead in case they get 8-10 seconds of skipping. Not sure they read that far ahead normally.

[KDR_11k]

I wonder what would happen if an error got by undetected... From a texture error up to an overflow, everything could happen...

[joeamis]

given the fact that the PS1 and PS2 are very unreliable
this discussion makes it look like if they continue
with that quality the PSP could be unplayable in many instances
especially on subways.  
It's easy to have 45 second esp on a cd walkman, now of course
the PSP doesn't need that, but how much esp do you think
would be "enough" for this device to run games without hiccups or crashes?

The number would seem to be low but what if the unit skipped for
8 seconds, ran for the next 5 seconds, then encountered another 5 second skip,
followed by...etc etc (skip, run, skip, run)

[KDR_11k]

joe: Unless that data is only loaded the exact moment it is required (unlikely, data gets preloaded much earlier since read times are too slow for realime loading) you won't notice. Of course, it could happen that the device just says "read error" and treats it as fatal, but they'd be really stupid to do that. Come to think of it, they'll probably do it anyway.

[jasonditz]

Every disc-based console I've ever had just "read errors" in that case. The gamecube pops up an error screen and says to call the manufacturer if the problem recurs.

The only one I can think of that does what you suggest (just starts loading crap data) is the original NES. Sometimes some of the sprites just turn into ASCII characters and whatnot.