Topic: Silicon Knights and Nintendo break up

[Doobie]

its funny when people say they wont buy nintendos next system when we really know nothing about it yet. for all we know companys can easily jump back on a nintendo system as they have been dropping off. just cause gamecube isnt getting anymore games from certain companys doesnt mean they wont support the next system. just wait and find out about the next system before you make your choice, it seems too early.

[vudu]

here's a tought that i haven't seen mentioned yet...

i remember reading in an ign mailbag that someone found a website for a brand new developer that boasted having employees that had worked on both ed and mgs:tt.  the mailbag can be found here.  (at the time of this post the page won't load, but here's hoping it will come back.)  i don't remember the name of the developer or the website.  sorry.  regardless, matt @ ign contacted denis regarding this news, and denis was quoted as saying something like "we have lots of employees leave all the time, but i have no idea who's a part of this new developer".

is it possible that all of sk's talent flew the coop and nintendo ended the relationship while the gettin' was good?  it could be much like how nintendo sold off rare once the talent left, but before they lost value--nintendo got rid of all its stock in sk before the price dropped.

just a thought.  no clue if there's any connection between the two pieces of information.  also, i'm not saying dropping sk would be a good idea just because many core people left the company.  my point is, don't be so quick to rag on nintendo before all the cards are laid on the table.  i remember many people saying a lot of bad things about nintendo when rare was sold, but (at present time) it appears to have been a wise decision.

[odifiend]

No I read the same mailbag... Matt said Dyack said that only a few have left SK in the past months.  It was concluded that if the new company does in fact have ex-SK's employees, it is only a small number of them- like one or two.
I really think SK must have initiated the 2nd party break up.  It just makes more sense that way.
BTW did you get your PM, vudu?  IE failed on me as I was sending it.

[vudu]

i know denis said only a few team members left, but honestly, if half of your staff has left, are you going to go around bragging about it, or are you going to try to downplay it as much as possible?  again, just a random theory.

and yea, i got it.  it was a fairly immature joke, but i couldn't help but laugh.

[The Omen]

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its funny when people say they wont buy nintendos next system when we really know nothing about it yet. for all we know companys can easily jump back on a nintendo system as they have been dropping off.

Well, it appears to me that most people are saying they have to really think about which console to purchase next gen., which normally wasn't the case, at least not for me.  As for companies jumping back on , great!  But if that happens, I don't want to hear you jumping for joy, just as you're telling us to calm down the anger now.  No overeacting ...ever  

[akdaman1]

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Originally posted by: Akage
Sick of whiny people like you who claim the end of Nintendo because of the "loss" of a team that did very little in terms of sales for Nintendo.

And to base your purchase of Nintendo's next system off this is incredibly childish.

Ian said exactly what I was feeling.

Honeslty I wasnt a MAJOR fan of Silikon Knights. But it seems each week some devoloper leaves Nintendo or a exclusive goes to PS2. Hell I might buy a GCNext if the line-up is the greatest ever line-up.

The only thing good to come out of this generation was Retro and SK, Retro who are very small and doesnt make many games. And Sk who right now are gonna work on other consoles as well.

Oh and theres a but of  a difference beetween whiny and pissed.

Heres to hoping for a major E3.

[Rich]

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Honeslty I wasnt a MAJOR fan of Silikon Knights. But it seems each week some devoloper leaves Nintendo or a exclusive goes to PS2. Hell I might buy a GCNext if the line-up is the greatest ever line-up.

Yeah but there is a difference between saying that you have been considering not buying Nintendo's N5 before yesterday and SK leaving was the straw that broke the camals back and saying that before this you were definetly buying the "N5" and now you don't think your will buy the next console just because of this incident. Like I said, Silicon Knights wasn't that big.

[chaos]

OK I wouldn't post often but everyone seems to jumping to conclusions so I thought I'd give some possibilities both likely and unlikely.
1 Nintendo and Silicon Knights have had a difference of opinion and so parted ways, normally in business's its quite common however both Silicon Knights and Nintendo aren't normal business's whom both seem to have worked perfectly together and would in my opinion be a bit stupid to throw away over an argument.
2 Well it's "contractually over" so maybe Nintendo decided the Silicon Knights were loyal enough to stay exclusive while being a 3rd party
3 I dont know if anyone else thinks this but if I was in charge of a games company I would prefer to be independent not because of money but to prove I can run my own business without outside help (of course I would remain exclusive for as long as possible)
4 Mr. Dyack has said many times that he would like to do more collaboration with other companies maybe Nintendo has some sort of plan with this!
5 I noticed that with Twin Snakes that it made many people contemplate getting a Playstation 2 for Sons of Liberty possibly actually helping the PS2 more than Nintendo now think if Silicon Knights  releases an amazing game across all consoles gaining a huge fanbase but then remain exclusively for the N5 using the same tactic which they would have just seen with their own game, there by giving it a boost for the launch of the N5 from the flock of new fans
6 Its an insanity effect I know its unlikely but it could turn out to be the biggest joke in gaming history I wouldn't put it past them, does anyone else think its strange the abrubteness of it all these are the only explanation I see as possible
I saw some quite odd and unlikely reasons behind this too
1 Their philosophies clash: Rubbish this would be more reason to stay as they would compensate eachother's weakpoints
2 Nintendo is joining with Microsoft and so Silicon Knights wanted no part in it: Nintendo would not join with Microsoft because they would simply lose more than they would gain; independence money (dont get forget Microsoft just cant turn a profit from the X-box) diferent business ethics (this is different from above as SK and Nintendo hold relatively honourable business practices unlike Microsoft which is well known for its slyness ) to put it simply Nintendo cant trust Microsoft.

P.S I like many of the X-box's games I just don't agree with their ethic's
   

[Perfect Cell]

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Yeah but there is a difference between saying that you have been considering not buying Nintendo's N5 before yesterday and SK leaving was the straw that broke the camals back and saying that before this you were definetly buying the "N5" and now you don't think your will buy the next console just because of this incident. Like I said, Silicon Knights wasn't that big.

Its not simply SK, its the bigger picture. If you look at the loss of SK and Factor 5 in the bigger picture, its not pretty. Sure you could make the argument that loosing a company that made 2 games, isnt important. Problem is, Sk attracted mature gamers to the console (Something that will be much harder now) Factor 5 Attracted  mature gamers. These are the gamers that Nintendo needs to go after if they plan on surviving. If you add the loss of these two exclusives, to the long list of third parties. It gets grimmer. Third Parties pay royaltees to Nintendo to make games for the system. Its a way to make money. Without Third Parties you make less money. This is no the kind of things that should be happening to Nintendo before the PSP Arrives.  Nintendo needs to make a strong showing at E3 and beyond. This is a desperate thing.

I do wish Dennis would explain himself more throughly. He doesnt owe us an explenation but it could certainly help. Why make public comments on how you liked Nintendo, and how you wanted to make Kid Icarus, and Zelda, and Two Human, and then suddenly leave? Are things that bad with Nintendo? The rappidness of this move is whats so shocking and troubling to me.  

[Darc Requiem]

Well Ocarina Blue, thanks for comparing me to Ian. I don't think I'm on his level but the compliment is appreciated nonetheless. I completely agree with what Omen said. A lot of us Nintendo diehards are no longer gonna just run out and buy the N5. We are going to wait and way our decisions very carefully. Nintendo continues to hemorrhage developers at an unbelievable level. I mean when it was developers like Acclaim, I could look the other way but  talented now its developers like Factor 5 and SK. With Nintendo having a larger worldwide usebase than the X-box, it just inexcusable.

Also, I am so sick of the weak opposing view that some others have presented to our growing displeasure with Nintendo. When your most loyal and diehard customers begin to doubt you. You have a serious problem. Saying it doesn't matter we still have Metroid Prime 2 doesn't cut it. Nintendo has continued to ignore us and at this point I no longer believe Nintendo knows best. They've have continued to make boneheaded decisions and I really miss Yamauchi. Yes he was arrogant and we mocked him but Iwata seems certifiable. At least under Yamauchi, Nintendo said what they did. Iwata talks out of his ass. He says Nintendo is going after older gamers but Nintendo has done little if anything to prove their sincerity. The fact that they've lost SK and Capcom seems to be backing off its support speaks volumes.

When the GC was launching, I saw its flaws but I thought it was a great step forward for Nintendo. The thing about it was that some of the Gamecubes flaws were blatantly obviously to anyone. The purple color and pathetic memory card size were inexcusable. Its seem Nintendo was aware these issues, SD adapter and Jet Black alternate color, but in current Nintendo fashion basically dismissed them. Thats the way Nintendo currently handles all of its problems. Lip service and broken promises. Think about some the issues Nintendo has. Think about how they handled them.

BTW I won't even start on their poor decisions with 3rd parties....that would be a thread all its own.

Darc Requiem
"Hmm....maybe I should do this professionally."  

[akdaman1]

Great post Darc Requiem.

I must admit though thius years line-up is still one of the best.

Fire Emblem
Metroid Prime 2
Wind Waker 2
Mario 100
Paper MARIO
GEIST ( This will rule )
Hope
Game Zero ( Hopefully )
Resident Evil 4
Baten KAitos ( Dont expect this to stay exclusive )
Tales of Symphonia ( the ps2 version is only in Jap )
Custom Robo

There are many more but im sure you already know them.

[mouse_clicker]

Whether Nintendo is worth giving up on right now or not is a moot point- it's ENTIRELY subjective, and has been discussed more than is either required or even healthy. This is a thread about Silicon Knights and their [apparent lack of a] relationship with Nintendo- I think it'd be best if we kept to that topic.

[DrkStarTTD]

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Originally posted by: ThePerm
hmmm everyone is really freaking out, and you can tell who the newbies and the veterans are because the newbies always freak out ten times more. And of course there are also the constant pessimists who spin everything exactly in the opposite direction. Anyways i think its time to take a wait and see stance. Right now im on edge though and i hope a detailed explanation comes soon.

may b it is the newbies that arn't freaking out as much as they should. I have been coming to pgc for ever and i had put up with so much of this. Im not saying that nintendo owners are dumb %&^&s because of breaking up with sk but im saying it because they are dumb %&^&s. Its people that are like "nintendo knows what they are doing they have a plan" that make nintendo think that they do.

[the_zombie_luke]

This off topic, but related in a small way. Where did the talkback thread go?  

[mouse_clicker]

Luke: The Talkback forum has been having a weird problem where threads will randomly get eaten- the SK thread in question was the latest victim. They'll probably put another one up, but the posts in it are lost forever, unfortunately.

[akdaman1]

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Whether Nintendo is worth giving up on right now or not is a moot point- it's ENTIRELY subjective, and has been discussed more than is either required or even healthy. This is a thread about Silicon Knights and their [apparent lack of a] relationship with Nintendo- I think it'd be best if we kept to that topic.

Sorry for going semi-offtopic.

[the_zombie_luke]

My friend and I were discussing what if the whole thing was a big joke on MSN, and we thought it was weird that the thread was removed, and that maybe they were connected, yes we're paranoid . How did IGN get the scoop on this anyway? There were no hints or anything!  

[mouse_clicker]

Isn't odd, as well, that every news site lists IGN as their source?

[the_zombie_luke]

Yeah, I would have expected Nintendo to have an official press release. It doesn't matter where SK goes, if they make a game for the N-Gage, I'll get an N-Gage. I like them that much.  

[odifiend]

C'mon guys.  IGN isn't going to just lie.  They confirmed it with Nintendo and Dyack.  Johnny did the same on the telephone- independent of IGN.  Wake up!  Move to the next coping step already- Anger.  That's the step I'm in.

[the_zombie_luke]

They're all in on it! They're Augustus's pawns! Can you not see it? Look beyond the veil of reality!  

[mouse_clicker]

odifiend: Obviously Dyack would be in on the joke if this is one. It's possible he and IGN teamed up to get the word out.

And if this is real, which it probably is, I honestly really don't care- I mean, come on people, we're talking about videogames. You shouldn't let your life revolve around something so insignificant. It sucks SK is gone, but it's not going to affect the way I live my life. A lot of people are really overreacting.

[DrkStarTTD]

im sorry but i think that some of u people need to open your eyes. Sk is not a gc only developer any more get it? The chances of this being a joke are slim to non.(but if it is then dyack you are one sad person playing with peoples minds like that. it can cause much damage) Nintendo just lost alot of money because of the extange rate or something right maybe they just can't afford sk anymore. I think nintendo is alot worse off then we all think

[Perfect Cell]

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think nintendo is alot worse off then we all think

Possibly. A Baseball allusion if you will. Nintendo cant compete with the Microsofts of the world, so they need to work with smaller development teams and build them up to SK, Rare level, then break off and start over. Zoonami, Kuju and N-Space seem to me like 3 possible candidates for this. Work with them to make good games, build them up and then let them go. Sort of how smaller market teams like the Oakland Athletics comepte with the Yankees and the Sox. Moneyball, basically.  

[the_zombie_luke]

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Originally posted by: DrkStarTTD
Nintendo just lost alot of money because of the extange rate or something right maybe they just can't afford sk anymore. I think nintendo is alot worse off then we all think

That's not a very good theory. SK is a relatively small studio. If Nintendo desperately needed them, they could get them with their $6 billion. I just want to hear more from Dyack. We need answers! Will SK develop for N-Gage or not?