Topic: Pro Logic II on Gamecube FAQ

[aoi tsuki]

Pro Logic II on Gamecube: a minifaq

UPDATE:  This FAQ will now reside on the new forum. Please post your questions here, as all future updates will be posted here until further notice. Thanks.

There's been a lot of questions lately regarding receivers, Pro Logic II, etc., and i noticed the same questions being asked repeatedly. i'm in no way an expert on home theater equipment, but i decided to compile some of my finds into a mini FAQ to help those of you who are just getting into this. i'm sure there'll be a lot more of you with Gamecubes now that Christmas has come and gone. Also the new year brings some crazy sales, which is a great time to pick up some gear if you know what you're looking for.

I'm writing the FAQ for someone who a)has a Gamecube, b)wants to play Pro Logic II, c) doesn't have a lot of money to spend (i'd say less than $400). Having said that, i won't focus on many features which won't benefit the GC, like DTS-DD support and 7.1 Dolby Digital sound. These are mainly for DVD, and any system you get for your Cube should work fine with a DVD player, amd most will come with one.

Make sure to check out as much stuff as you can. Read the reviews online, stop by stores and listen to systems, and don't feel bad if you don't go home with a system the first day. If you're going to drop a few hundred on something, make sure it's something that's gonna do what you want it to do.


What is Dolby Pro Logic II?
Basically, Pro Logic II is a technology which allows five-channel (left, center, right, left surround, right surround) sound from a stereo source. On regular stereo audio (music, tv shows, etc.) the sound surrounds you. When the source audio is encoded in PLII (like Metroid Prime for Gamecube), you get even better immersion with separate surround channels. Pro Logic (aka Dolby Surround) only has one surround channel, so sounds coming from the rear share the same channel. It also lacks the frequency range of Pro Logic II.


What do I need to hear Pro Logic II on my Gamecube?
First, you need a Pro Logic II-capable receiver. Secondly, you need the five speakers for each of the five channels explained above. The subwoofer is optional, but definitely recommended for the  full experience. There's one particular area in Metroid Prime where activating something creates this great hum sound that sounds really good coming from my sub. EVerytime you enter the room the  normal pristine silence is broken by this nice hum. Experiencing this without my sub is like making hot chocolate with water instead of milk; the taste is there but it's kinda flat.


What are my options?
Okay, if you have nothing but a tv and a Gamecube, a home-theater-in-a-box (HTIB) is your best bet. These include the six speakers (the sixth is the subwoofer for your bass), a receiver, and  usually a DVD player. HTIBs range in price, but start at about $200. Yes, cheaper ones exist but i can't in all honesty recommend them. If you're looking for these ubercheap systems, check Walmart,  Kmart, Meiers, or a similar store. It all comes down to you -- what you hear, what you like, and what you can afford.

If you already have a home theater system, but it doesn't have Pro Logic II, check with your manufacturer (their website is the easiest way) and see if you receiver is upgradeable, how it's done,  and how much it costs. Chances are that it's not, or that it's simply cheaper and easier to get a new, Pro Logic II-capable receiver.


What am I looking for in a receiver?
Aside from Pro Logic II, look for Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS. It's hard to say what to look for in cheaper receivers since they sometimes cut certain features out. Wattage is important, but don't be fooled by numbers. Cheaper systems will post bigger numbers to make it seem like you're getting more for less. If it rates the wattage in PMP or PMPO (peak  maximum power [output]), then expect exaggerated claims.

When you're testing out a unit, it's always good to carry a CD with you to test it out with. It's best if you make your own CD out of CD tracks. MP3s will do, CD audio is still better. Make sure to  have a good variety of tracks (different genres of music work well) to test out. Live and classical music also work well. Set the bass and treble to default, and use one the Stereo modes. Also set the subwoofer's volume (it should be somewhere on the subwoofer itself) to 50%. When you're listening to each set notice which sounds better, and try and pick out every detail in the music.

Also notice how high you can turn the receiver up before you get distortion out of any of the speakers. Different source require volume levels. You may have to turn your receiver to over halfway up to get it to comfortable listening level. You shouldn't need to turn it up quite as loud at home, where you'll have a smaller and quieter space than in the store.


I have five speakers laying around the house. Can I get a Pro Logic II receiver and use these?
You should. If there's an RCA plug you may need to cut it off and strip the wires; it depends on your receiver.

Now, the real question is, do you want to? Granted, your Pro Logic II receiver will properly decode the signal to the right speakers, but different speakers reproduce sound differently, and mixing sets might result in an "off" (for a lack of a better term) sound, no matter how much tweeking you do. If you have the chance to do this without actually buying anything, do so. You might be happy with the result.


I hooked four speakers up to my stereo at home by splitting the left and right channels with a Y cable. Is this surround sound?
No, this is quadraphonic sound. You can place the second set of speakers behind you to increase the effect, but you won't be getting surround sound.


Do these PC/game speakers have Pro Logic II? The box says "surround".
Probably not. Many of these speakers will say "3.1" or "4.1 surround sound", but without a receiver to break the sound into different channels, you won't get a true surround field. A lot of the  higher-end PC speakers sets are also meant to be hooked up to card that can output in 5.1.

The only set i'm aware of with Pro Logic II is the Logitech Z-680 (http://gear.ign.com/articles/375/375816p1.html). At $400 it's not cheap, but definitely worth consideration. Keep in mind it doesn't have a DVD player.


Should I get this system? It's really cheap and has Pro Logic II.
Comes down to you really. Read the reviews, listen to the unit, and make your decision. If you can't find any reviews for the system you're looking at, chances are it's not worth getting. It's one thing for a receiver to have Pro Logic II, it's another to have a receiver that can be powerful enough to make it worthwhile (same for the speakers).


Do I need Monster Cables?
Short answer no, long answer yes and no. If you're getting an HTIB for $300, the speakers won't be able to put out much better sound with Monster Cable than with the cable they came with. If you still want a better cable, look for something that offers shielding, in 14 or 16 gauge size. Radio Shack sells something like this. Shy away from really cheap cable (even thick cheap cable), and make sure that the cable is marked for polarity. What you're looking for is a stripe alongside one of the cables. The stripe side must be matched up to the same terminal on both the receiver and the respective speaker. Connecting them backwards shouldn't harm your speakers, but it'll result in poorer sound.

i'd still recommend Monster Cables (or something similar) for your S-video cable, or for cables to connect other systems and equipment to deliver a cleaner video signal than the default cables. Acoustic Research makes a high quality cable that you can find at places like Lowes and Builder's Square, sometimes on clearance.


Hmm... I've got about $100 to spend. What should I do?
If you're looking at a Pro Logic II system in that range, forget it. If you can somehow come up with enough to get into the HTIB range, hold off until you can do that.

If you just want something better than your tv for sound, you can always go with one of those game speaker sets. i don't know much about them in terms of quality; i'll try to update this with some links to reviews.

Again, don't be fooled by wattage. Many of these types of systems use PMP or PMPO ratings to make them seem like a better value, especially the sets sold in game stores.


Okay, I've got my Pro Logic II system, but I'm not sure if I'm getting Pro Logic II sound.
1. Make sure you're receiver is using a Pro Logic II mode (see your instructions).
2. Make sure you're game is set to Pro Logic II (most default to stereo).
3. Read the troubleshooting portion of your instruction manual.


My mom/dad/girlfriend/neighbor/cat complains about the noise. What should i do?
Aside from moving out, try lowering the volume on the sub. Most of the time, especially with better systems, the sub can be heard or even felt in other rooms. Continue to cut the volume down until it's acceptable. It may have to go off completely. But chances are you can keep the volume of your other speakers at the same level, and just sacrifice bass. Many receivers have a "late night listening" mode where the sound is normalized a bit so that you don't have to turn the volume down, but can still hear ambient sounds.


What are some Pro Logic II enhanced games?
Here's all the games i know that support Pro Logic II:
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Monkey Ball 2
Phantasy Star Online Episodes I & II
Metroid Prime
Eternal Darkness
Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
007: Nightfire
Freekstyle
Evolution Skateboarding
Turok


What are some Pro Logic (Dolby Surround) games?
Extreme G3
Medal of Honor: Frontline

Note that Pro Logic games will work on a Pro Logic II receiver. However, you will have only one surround channel, due to the Pro Logic encoding.

Cube IGN states in their review of Resident Evil that the sound is encoded in Dolby Surround. i've never seen a Dolby logo in the game, on the box, or in the instructions. i'm not sure if the game uses it or just plain stereo, but in any case, it sounds great over a receiver capable of at least Pro Logic.


What are some additional links to check out?
i lost part of my bookmark file a couple weeks back, so this is the shortened list:

http://www.audioreview.com
http://www.dolby.com
http://dolby.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/dolby.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php
http://www.epinions.com/elec-Audio-Systems-All-Full_Systems

While you're on Dolby's site, check the area on setting up your system. Correct speaker placement can make or break the experience. Last week i went to a friend of my uncle's for movie night. First thing i noticed when i walked in was the placement of the surround speakers. The front speakers were sitting on them! This didn't work at all; the surround speakers are supposed to recreate sounds from behind you. Also make sure to read your manual on the setup of your receiver. Setting it up properly can really enhance the surround effect.

Guess that's it. If there's any corrections that need to be made, please let me know. i'm also open to any suggestions and/or comments, especially from people more knowledgable in this area than i am.


Updates
1.17.03:  Updated PLII games, added PL games.
2.3.03:  Moved to new forum, minor additions, edited grammar.

(c) 2003 ricardo scott. No part of this FAQ may be used without permission from me.  

[RickPowers]

A couple of salient points for you ...

First, if you don't have a PL2 receiver (or can't afford one), but have a receiver that does Pro Logic (and nearly all of them do), you will still get surround sound from your PL2 games.  It won't be as clear or well defined as PL2 (the rear channels are mono, not discrete), but it's better than stereo.

PL2 doesn't natively support subwoofers, so a sub isn't a necessity.  However, many games have hacked in a subwoofer channel, and many receivers have an option to take the bass coming from all of the other speakers and redirect it to the sub.  (Yes, this is a loss in sound quality for the speakers, but since bass is non-directional anyway, with good subwoofer placement you will likely not notice the difference.)

[enigma487]

[KnuxSonic]

The All Star Baseball series is also in Dolby Surround (not PL2). Some other PL2 games are Star Wars: Clone Wars and Bounty Hunter.

A few questions:

1) If a game does not mention anything of having surround sound support but I still hear music/sound effects out of the rear speakers during gameplay, does this mean that it does have some sort of surround sound support?

2) For games/TV shows in stereo (no surround sound), my reciever has three settings. Pro Logic, 3 Stereo (just the front 3 speakers and sub) and none (2 speaker stereo and sub). Which should I set it on when just viewing/playing stereo stuff? Does Pro Logic decode stereo better than just having it turned off or what?

[Azule]

If a game doesn't have the Dolby symbols on the back, does that mean it doesn't have it period? Though...Luigi's Mansion had Dolby, but only mentioned it inside the game.

[Yenko]

Rick,

I don't know where you came up with the idea that Pro Logic II doesn't support a sub, it does. If you look at a schematic for the Pro Logic II decoder you'll see a bass managment circuit that creates a channel for a sub. There's no hack needed nor does the receiver have to do anything because the feature is built into the decoder. Also, since the circuit is part of the decoder, there's no degradation of sound quality using a sub.

Do you really think Jim Fosgate would design a new matrix surround format to allow older stereo and Dolby Surround material to take advantage of new 5.1 surround systems and leave out the sub?  

[Djunknown]

[Hmm... I've got about $100 to spend. What should I do?
If you're looking at a Pro Logic II system in that range, forget it. If you can somehow come up with enough to get into the HTIB range, hold off until you can do that.]

Hate to bust your bubble but if you're a super cheapskate and have a nose for deals you can pick up a decent entry Pro Logic system. I own Altec Lansing's 251 set, and it supports all formats, 5.1 included. You can use it with your PC, Game Cube (Obviously or I wouldn't be posting this) CD player, etc. While Game Cube doesn't support Surround sound 5.1, if you have a PS2 or Xbox w/ a reciever to put in the optical Cables, it will.

The two gripes are that its only 90 watts, and the cables don't lend themselves well to positioning. I got it shortly before Mario Sunshine launched, but I could hear the difference. Eternal Darkness and Metroid  Prime never sounded better. And ironically,  the Recent Zelda bonus disk makes the best use of DPL though I'm uncertain whether it was Pro Logic I or II.

I got mine on sale at Best Buy and it works like a charm. Its the jack of  all trades of sound, so if you got  100 (plus sales Tax), give it a whirl.

[Grey Ninja]

I use my Soundblaster Live! for audio.  It supports Dolby Prologic II in hardware, and sounds very nice when connected to my GameCube.

[Yenko]

I just noticed something you might want to change. Where you say, "Note that Pro Logic games will work on a Pro Logic II receiver. However, you will have only one surround channel, due to the Pro Logic encoding."

The Pro Logic decoder is what is responsible for the bandwidth limited, mono surround channels, not the encoding process. The Pro Logic II decoder creates full-range, stereo surround channels when feed a stereo or Dolby Surround signal. So if you use a game with Dolby Surround (Pro Logic) encoding with a Pro Logic II decoder, it will produce full-range, stereo surround channels.

The encoding process for Pro Logic II is really just an extension of Dolby Surround. It adds a fifth channel, instead of four, into the Lt and Rt stereo channels. The decoder is really what does the work, not the encoding process.

[kennyb27]

Question: For Christmas I found myself as the owner of a brand spankin' new receiver.  I was mortified to find out that the receiver did not support ProLogic II . Ok, so now let me ask my question.  For games that support ProLogic II, or simply Surround.  What do I put my receiver/game settings on??  Do I just put the sound settings in the game on "Surround" or do u put the receiver in the "simulated" surround where it just reproduces the front Rt and Lt speakers on the back Rt and Lt, respectively?  In case you can't tell, I am in dire need of answers.  Ok, maybe not that bad, but those answers would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

[Grey Ninja]

Put the reciever on Prologic, and the game on Stereo/Surround, whichever is available.

[kennyb27]

Thanks, as soon as i get a chance to move my TV and system back to my room I'll try it out.

[aoi tsuki]

[MarcDK]

Hey, I have a question:

How do you connect the GameCube to the z-680 to have Dolby Pro Logic 2 Support? Which adapter?

Thanx for your support!

[aoi tsuki]

i don't have the Z-680 set but i'd recommend downloading the setup guide on Logitech's support page for the Z-680:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=support/products/details&CRID=322&CONTENTID=5048&countryid=19&languageid=1

On page 7 of the guide, read the paragraph about analog connections in the "Video game consoles" section. Since i don't know what type of adapter the Digital SoundTouch Control Center uses, take it as well as your Gamecube AV cable to Radio Shack, Best Buy, or any other store that sells audio equipment, and ask someone that works there.

After you have your adapter, use it to connect the Gamecube AV cable to the Digital SoundTouch Control Center, and select Dolby Pro Logic II Movie on the Digital SoundTouch Control Center. Also make sure Pro Logic II is selected in your game. It's sometimes referred to as surround in some games. If you're not sure if your game supports Pro Logic II, check the back of the box.

Again, not having the Z-680 or experience with one i can't say for sure, but this should work.

[thacube]

hi um before i start with my problem let me discribe what i got.

- TV with a RGB-scart port ( the next best thing besides component and HD, and no S-video is not better trust me )
- a cube ( figures )
- an official nintendo RGB-scart cable
and last but not least
- a Creative Inspire GD580 5.1 ( not much Watt but it comes with an seperate encoder and it gives good quality sound )

as you can see i dont have a TV that supports component nor HD ( incase you wondering, HD means High Deffinition ), so in this case i use a RGB-scart cable to get the best screen quality out of my consoles.
now...
when i play with my xbox or ps2 i just hook up my fiber optical cable and i got my 5.1 DD sound, now here is the problem sinds the NGC doesnt support optical. ( the panasonic game-Q did have a optical port so at first i got confused with people selling "fiber optical for ya NGC" )
so that leaves me with the analog stereo channels, i ve learned that DPL2 seperates the incoming signal into 5 seperate channels which kinda figures why there wasnt a need for an optical port.
when i play with my RGB-scart cable there is no seperate Left and Right sound plug like the one that comes with your system instead the SCART got everything integrated in one plug.
so i think most of you are wondering "why didnt you get a S-video cable instead?" well here's my answer if some of you didnt know.

The S-video over expose the color red so when things are red it turns into orange, the diffrents between a S-video and a RGB-scart lies in the output-signal.
S-video output-signal is like a combined video image like the standard cable but better quality, but the RGB-scart cable output-signal has a Seperate Red, Green and Blue channel which gives it a better and more controlled screen quality.
the RGB-scart is simular to the Component.
- they both got seperate RGB signals
the diffrence is
- SCART is an analog signal while Component is digital.

sinds i got my setup sorted out heres my question.
ive seen components cable with a seperate L en R sound plugs, is it possible to just use the components L en R sound while using my RGB-scart cable?
please help i just want too fully utillize my cube , and playing with 5.1 sound DOES make a diffrence.