Topic: Mature Titles doesnt always mean Violent !

[Kyosho]

they should probably use the movie ratings instead or a different rating system.  The word "mature" is such a loose term.  If you were talking from a gaming perspective in CHOICE of games, then yes MouseClicker is correct.  However, there's more to it then that.  Because even some of most insane Nintendo fans are still immature in the real world.  I think the ESRB intends to warn the parents that "hey the content of this game may be somewhat explicit.  Be warned." But it obviously doesn't work out too well.  Too many monkeys @ ESRB.

[ThePerm]

an EX rating may be more appropriate..maybe they'll have to change the E rating to G general...

[Hostile Creation]

I don't think the E to G is a good idea.  Everyone is a fine title for a rating, and doesn't turn anyone away, usually.  G will make people think of The Little Mermaid and other childish Disney movies, and it'll probably turn them off.

[Deguello]

"I believe the Mature rating applies to the buyer rather than the game itself, meaning the person playing the game should be mature."

I know, that's why I said it's flawed.  The ESRB rates games, not people.  I think R would be better than M.  A more effective method of content rating would be more akin to the way they do it to TV shows.  It has a rating with certain letters that mark off the content therein, like V for Violence and such..   The good thing about changing the rating would be the actual changing of it could make news, and thus make more people aware, and the bad part would be the industry analysts lose a buzzword to throw around.

What I meant with the definition posting was I'm kinda getting tired of worthless chaps on other forums clamoring for Nintendo to (quote) "Make mature games" when they barely understand what the word means.  And the same goes for buzzword analysts.

[Plugabugz]

Slow careful consideration?

If you live in Europe or Australia, we surely know the meaning to this

In Europe, we have PEGI (www.pegi.info) which is just as pointless as ESRB in my opinion.
F-Zero GX has a 3+. BUT, F-Zero is way too fast for anyone that age or above to play it.
Metroid Prime is a 12+, and it carries the symbol for violence. More detail should be provided to explain it's violence.

Each game, I believe, should be supplied with a note or leaflet for parents to read which explains the game's visual and verbal content.

But then, that leaflet would be pointless for me, as I buy all my own games anyway.

[misterd]

Quote
Originally posted by: nionlights
The current rating system is ridiculous-what is the point of a rating system which the majority of parents do not understand?  There is/was absolutely no reason why the "ESRB" couldn't just adopt the MPAA rating system (G, PG, PG-13, etc); no fuss, no crazy ratings that aren't ever used, just plain, simple movie-style ratings.  Oh, and here's my (only) problem with Nintendo, or, rather, the state of video games today-10 years ago, or whenever it was, when i fell in love with the Super Nintendo, there was no question that it had ALL the games.  You want sports games?  SNES had plenty.  You want "x" type of game from "x" developer?  SNES had them all.  Nowadays, I have to hold my breath, cross my fingers in the hopes that a good 3rd-party game that I've just heard about will get to the Cube.  It's not a pleasant feeling...

1) It is my understanding that the MPAA owns the rights to all the ratings except "X" (which is why porn movies could use it so freely). For the gaming industry to use these ratings they would probably have to pay the MPAA. I don't know what that would cost, but long term it might be worth it.

2) I have said it before and will say it again. Being "mature" has nothing to do with guns, drugs, whores and cursing. Maturinty is getting a job, paying the bills, taking care of a family. In short, the most mature game out there is The Sims.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Don't forget Harvest Moon.

[nionlights]

Quote
Originally posted by: misterd


2) I have said it before and will say it again. Being "mature" has nothing to do with guns, drugs, whores and cursing. Maturinty is getting a job, paying the bills, taking care of a family. In short, the most mature game out there is The Sims.

In real-world situations, yes.  But I find it odd that no one thinks of the term "mature themed" as it relates to sex, drugs, violence, etc.  Sure, what you're describing is "maturity in life," but don't bring that over to video games-we don't do the same to movies.  If a movie is rated "R", it has "adult content;" in other words, the movie contains "mature content," many times the sex, drugs, and violence that you say has nothing to do with the term "mature."  Perhaps they should change it to "adult themes..."  to please those who don't understand the ESRB's use of the word "mature."

Another point: 10-11 year olds are not prepared to experience games like Grand Theft Auto or Manhunt, that's the primary reason why the "Mature" rating is supposed to bar them from purchasing these games.  A 10 or 11 year old is not going to be equipped enough to deal with seeing tons of blood and gore all over a screen, whether that be a very "mature" game, or an R-rated movie; I think we can agree that once you "mature" a little more in life, you become better equipped to handle seeing movies like "Goodfellas" or playing games like GTA without as serious a risk of unwanted side effects.

The outcry from some (not I, for the most part) for more "mature" games for the Gamecube, though, does not necessarily coincide with "how many 'M' games 'X' system has."  A lot of it has to do with perception, yes (much of it false, like "Nintendo is a completely kiddy system"), but a lot of it deals with demographics.  Nintendo tends to target their games towards those a little bit younger on the spectrum than other companies do; the popular games for the GC that get a lot of hype, therefore, are games like Zelda and, well, any Mario title.  People tend to not see that the GC has more Resident Evils than most can handle, or Eternal Darkness, or really good, "mature" multiplatform fighting games like Soul Calibur.  I do think, though, that this whine for more mature games would end/would have ended with a Gamecube version of GTA.

I'm through ranting.

[VoodooMerlin]

Sadly though....why does GTA have to be the benchmark of a mature game? I personally think that the game is massively overrated. The underage gamers were the ones who gave it it's notoriety. Unfortunately you do have "mature" gamers that overlook the Nintendo machine because of a lack of presence of that game. It's too bad.

Nintendo has always had a ton of mature games. It's just that when most people think of Nintendo, the word-association picture that pops into their heads is one of a little cartoon plumber in blue overalls. Or a round pink bubblegum blob. Sometimes I swear that Mario is Nintendo's curse.

People deemed the N64 as a "kiddie system" without even looking at the system's library past the Mario and Zelda titles, which really pissed me off since I was working in the industry from the N64's inception. Every time I heard the system slammed as such I wanted to shove a copy of Shadowman down their throats. The "cute" games were easily outnumbered by games that contained violence. Remember the launch of Doom and Quake to the 64? Forsaken? Conker (lol)? How quickly people forget. I own a great library of N64 titles and looking at my wall of game boxes right now, I can't help but feel that if people KNEW of the variety that appeared on the system, they'd run out and buy one and start playing some of these titles.

It's going to be the same with the Cube. It seems funny that when Resident Evil was on the PSX, that game series and the machine were the "gotta have" stuff. "Oh I'm a hardcore Resident Evil Fan (tm)." So what happened to all of those RE fans once the series returned to Nintendo? I know people that haven't continued the series because they won't buy a "kiddie Cube". It drives me nuts.

Their loss, I guess.

BTW....I can't understand why PN03 was slammed the way it was. I"m glad that I bought it BEFORE hearing about any reviews. Getting that thong bikini is a blast!

[Ian Sane]

"I own a great library of N64 titles and looking at my wall of game boxes right now, I can't help but feel that if people KNEW of the variety that appeared on the system, they'd run out and buy one and start playing some of these titles."

So really Nintendo's "mature games" problem has to do with marketing.  If Nintendo raised better awareness of the variety of their library then the "kiddy" stereotype would be less of a problem.  Makes sense since marketing is often sited as one of Nintendo's biggest problems.  The "kiddy" image is really more of a sympton than a problem itself.

"Sometimes I swear that Mario is Nintendo's curse."

Curse is right.  With Mario as their mascot they may never overcome their negative image but at the same time getting rid of him would be getting rid of the sales he brings and would piss off a LOT of Nintendo fans.  I think what they have to do is keep him but make him less Barney-like.  Make him the silent character he was on the NES and SNES (his voice is insanely kiddy) and make his games less bright.  I don't mean make them dark and scary just more like the Donkey Kong games Rare made.  Those are kid-friendly without everything looking all super-happy-fun-fun.  Super Mario RPG actually would be a great reference point since it's kid-friendly, is already Mario related, and has a less cheerful look.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"super-happy-fun-fun" should be an official word.

[Hostile Creation]

Mario and Luigi is an awesome game.  Just had to say it, since you're hatin' on Mario

Yeah, Mario could be less super-happy-fun-fun.  But I don't want them to be anything like DK and Rare.  The SNES ones were all right, especially the first two, but the third?  And 64?  Blech.  I know what you mean, though.  Very neutral graphics in the sense of maturity/kiddiness.

[KDR_11k]

Why even bother with leters? Why force people to learn what things like "mature", "everybody", etc means? Here they just write "unsuitable under X years" on the box (or "not cleared for youths") and everybody knows what it means.

[Deguello]

I wouldn't want Mario bastardized for the sale rack.

[KDR_11k]

That reminds me how someone on the NoE forums actually wanted Mario to run around with a chainsaw and spill blood everywhere...

[Ian Sane]

"I wouldn't want Mario bastardized for the sale rack."

Would he really be bastardized though?  I'm really suggesting they make him more like he used to be on the NES and SNES:  Silent and with more universal appeal.  In my opinion the "whee-hee" Mario that debuted in Super Mario 64 is a bastardized Mario.  The "real" Mario hasn't been seen since Super Mario RPG.

[mouse_clicker]

Mario is Mario- I don't think he's changed much at all from the NES, and if so, for the better. Mario is not Nintendo's problem, people, get over it.

[The Omen]

Most people old enough to remember Mario in the begining still like the games now.  Thats people around 30 years old now.  So i dont think its a problem.  If anything, you'd only be changing to satisfy the younger Playstation era gamers , which is not what we want.

[VoodooMerlin]

I'd want Mario left exactly the way he is and here's why. Consistency. When my friend and I want comic relief in a surreal world, we reach for the Mario games. We know what we're going to get every time. We were initially surprised at Sunshine's difficulty compared to the 64 game.....but in the end it's good ol' reliable Mario. Now what they COULD do is take Mr Wario, who is Mario's evil other side and push him in a "darker" direction. You can easily picture Wario running around with a chainsaw.

Ian Sane got what I was sorta saying before. Nintendo need to stand up tall and say to the world "Hey look. Here's the new Resident Evil. You've got to play it?. Get a Cube." Or make people aware  that they ALSO have the same third party mature titles that have just arrived on the rival systems....but in a louder voice than they have been doing in the past. People like g-r-a-p-h-i-c-s and technical flash. When was the last time that they touted the POWER and CAPABILITIES of this awesome little Cube. It flat out buries the PS2 any day and can easily rub shoulders with most of the stuff that the XboX is currently showing. My brother just bought a PS2 for his 7 yr old sons. Everyone (biased adult opinions) at the factory that he works at told him to buy the Sony or the XboX. He's coming over tonight and has yet to see a Cube running. He's going to be pissed that he didn't choose the Nintendo system. All I need to do is pop in Mario Kart. ESPECIALLY since the Cube is considerably less money to purchase!

The XboX is HEAVILY advertising that "it's good to play together". Well gee whiz....the Nintendo machines have always promoted "playing together". That's why they put 4 controller ports on them.

Nintendo needs a louder advertising voice for games other than first party ones. They seem shy about shouting. When Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon games are released, the whole world is made to hear, loud and clear. Third party? A whisper. God knows they've got the finances to spend if they wish to.

[odifiend]

As bad as Wario is, Nintendo will never give him or any other of their a chainsaw... unless it is animal crossing to cut down trees.
Going back to the sports issue before, did anyone notice that NFL Street is being pushed a little harder for the GameCube than any other system?  (Some commercial end in the GameCbe logo only, but nothing like that for PS2 or Xbox) I think it would be great if EA Big became a Nintendo second party, because they make the mature sports games that a lot of people want but at the same time they make them so over the top, even hardcore Nintendo fans play them, a miracle in itself.  Along with having sports taken care of, Nintendo would benefit from the large following of EA Big's NBA Street and SSX titles.

<<Goes back to sleep>>

[The Omen]

EA has been doing that with all their games.  I think its that deal sometime ago between EA and Nintendo when EA threatened to remove its sports lineup from the GC.  Even Madden 2004 has a GC only commercial.

[mouse_clicker]

Quote
Originally posted by: nionlights
2) I have said it before and will say it again. Being "mature" has nothing to do with guns, drugs, whores and cursing. Maturinty is getting a job, paying the bills, taking care of a family. In short, the most mature game out there is The Sims.

This reminded of a Calvin and Hobbes strip I think fits the situation very nicely.  

[Renny]

That site doesn't allow referrals from other sites. What's the strip's name?

[ghostVi]

Try going to http://www.reemst.com/calvin_and_hobbes/ and then paste the URL of the strip in the address bar.... it works, at least in Opera 7.50. Great site, I can't get enough of C&H

[Shift Key]

Wow, talk about running around in circles.

It is easy to say that Nintendo fans don't like sports games, but wouldn't you rather have the option to not buy sports games that are available then to have no choice at all? Sports game developers see the lack of demand and steer clear of putting major projects onto said console, and the vicious cycle of hate continues...

All I'm saying is that Nintendo needs to pull in more games, in a wider variety of genres, from more publishers and developers, to remain competetive. Sure, they are remaining profitable as is, but they'd still want a greater market share.