Topic: Mature Titles doesnt always mean Violent !

[Kyosho]

nionlights, i totally agree about your SNES comment.  It wasn't until the N64 that things started to change alot.  Much of this probably won't happen till they get more 3rd party developers.  Excellent 1st party software and mediocre 3rd party software does not make a totally enjoyable system.  Fortunately, I have seen quite a few ads lately on TV (but mostly for 1st/2nd party titles grr)

As for mature games, it'd be nice if they have a few more exclusives.  Having these multiplatformed Splinter Cell style games irks me a bit because i have a powerful PC and I can always get it for my PC.  The last mature game I bought was RE:0, and I wasn't too pleased with it.  I was hoping for a Devil May Cry type of game from Capcom, but none to be found cept for PN03 which from what I read isn't all that great.  It would have been awesome if you could jump in the air AND shoot.  That would have totally made into my GC library.

[The Omen]

I think RE:0 rips Devil may cry apart.  But thats just me.

[odifiend]

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It's not as easy as Nintendo just going out and "getting" these games- the simple fact of the matter is almost all Nintendo fans don't like sports games, and since one rarely buys a Gamecube unless they're a Nintendo fan, sports gamesjust won't sell well on the Gamecube

MC, you're completely right, Nintendo fans don't like sports games and therefore there isn't much incentive to make a sports game.  But at the same time Nintendo's lack of a sports lineup causes casual gamers who are most of the market now to just blow off Nintendo's system just as stmarco has decided to do next gen.  I know you don't care about the casual gamer from your many post and your editorial , but Nintendo should.  I am a Nintendo fan but (duh) don't really care for sports games.  Still I care that there are none.  Why? Because the casual gamer likes them and where the casual gamer is the RPGs tend to be, which I love.  Nintendo's lack of genres causes an indirect punishment on even their die hard fans.
That's why I gotta bow down to Ian Sane, and agree that Nintendo should be a model and lead by example if nothing else just to lure 3rd parties back.  Nintendo DOES have some control over who its developers are and what they develop by releasing games that are the same genre as the developers.  Personally I think it is Nintendo's lack of any online feature in a first party game that makes third parties ignore the fact that the GCN CAN go online.  This philosophy can be applied to sports games as well.

[ThePerm]

i find this to be the most redundant and rediculous discussion..really what people are arguing about is graphics...
gamecube games made by Nintendo are whimsical. So far however the best style game i have played so far is
prince of persia...then again that game just kicked ass on so many levels.

[mouse_clicker]

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I know you don't care about the casual gamer from your many post and your editorial  , but Nintendo should.

That is quite literally the only way for Nintendo to get back on top, is to get those casual gamers, and that's the only reason Sony is on top- my editorial's point was it doesn't matter if Nintendo doesn't get the casual gamers because they're still doing fine without them. My previous post's point was that simply having sports titles isn't going to bring back casual gamers- it's not as cut and dry as "getting" games, there's a lot more to it.

[odifiend]

True but sports is a big complaint.

[mouse_clicker]

Indeed, yes, but sports alone won't do squat for Nintendo. Rather they need all the staples of causal gamers.

[Berny]

Oh, please. Mario, Zelda, and Samus are the forumla for success. They can make Mario sports games like crazy. They can make Zelda puzzle games. They can make Metroid....other type of game? What else is there?

[StRaNgE]

I am not a fan of sports games either and at 30 I have enjoyed Nintendo as my main console  since they came out. Even with Genisis  super Nintendo was  played more.

I had  a 64 and  a ps1, 4 games for the ps1 and 40 or more for the 64.

X-box and  the cube are the same, I am pushing 100 games for the cube and only 1 is a realistic sports game which almost never gets touched. Madden.

I do however see the need for them and  agree if Nintendo themselves  were responsible for an exclusive realistic racing game, upgrading engine, tires effecting  the handling and so forth  with graphics as well, it might be the start of a domino effect for others to jump on the band wagon. As much as many seem against the casual gamer the majority of systems out there are owned by them and so forth  they do decide for the most part what  succeeds and does not.

[Mario]

Imagine if EA came out with their own console, goodbye Sony. Of course it would never happen though.

Oh, and i think that Nintendo aren't really trying to capture casual gamers attention, but rather trying to turn casual gamers into more hardcore gamers? Just a feeling..

[odifiend]

This plan is too late to implement for the GCN, but a Nintendo/ Nintendo-exclusive sports line up would in the long run help Nintendo with the casual gamers.  I agree with you that sports games by themselves won't do much for Nintendo as a company and their release won't immediately make Nintendo a success, but a competitive sports line up would give the casual gamer one less thing to talk trash about and might qwell the bad parts of Nintendo's reputation ushering in a better shot for Nintendo next round.
MC, rereading your stuff I'm convinced that Nintendo is as you say in a good position from a business standpoint and a decent position fan-wise.  Still you just can't beat the fringe benefits that come with being the industry leader.  In that ideal situation Nintendo could make its great games and have 3rd parties fill in the holes.  In fact I think Nintendo is used to having this done for them and hasn't fully adapted to the absence of 3rd parties.  
Anyway the bottom line is that the sports genre is becoming increasingly more popular and Nintendo is not sufficiently accounting for it.  Sure casual gamers have other staples (Read horrendously violent, mindless video games), but those are not that hard to sate with some crappy 3rd party.
Berny: I liked Mario Tennis, and Golf was okay, but I would die if Nintendo started wasting resources on more gimmicky rubbish that would sell just because of a franchise.  The Zelda games have enough puzzle solving in them already (okay not really enough ), but it would be better for them to include the puzzles in whatever dungeon.  Anyway the point of releasing a Nintendo lineup is to attract the casual gamer who would be turned off by the Nintendoness of this.  Trust me, I don't fully agree with this thinking but they got the $$$ and I want my RPGs .  

Second thought that would be loads better... have Camelot work on nothing but RPGs.  OH YEAH!!!

[odifiend]

For those of you wondering, yes I do consider racing a sport.  No duh! Those athletes have to train their feet from falling asleep and their eyes from drooping.  I wish I had that skill!!

[Mario]

The Hockey and Volleyball not-so-mini games in Mario Party 5 are like, so under rated. Everyone go play them.

[ThePerm]

i think the esrb needs to drop the M rating for a V or R rating

[mouse_clicker]

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Still you just can't beat the fringe benefits that come with being the industry leader.

I've said exactly that, almost word for word, several times, odifiend. My point is there's no use worrying now because Nintendo's not going anywhere now. It is true that Nintendo would undoubtedly prosper from being the industry leader, but it's icing on the cake for me since they've given me everything I could ever need as a gamer.

[Kyosho]

sports is one thing.  But that definitely is not going to get people back to Nintendo.  You need to have a stellar 3rd party lineup which is what Nintendo lacks.  Nintendo is not going to win back people with sports.  It has a bunch of other gaps it needs to fill in for the other genres missing in its library.  Once, they get that back (which i'm predicting they won't unless they change their company philosophy), then sports would be a good way to appeal to more than just devoted blind Ninty followers.

[KDR_11k]

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Originally posted by: Kyosho
I was hoping for a Devil May Cry type of game from Capcom, but none to be found cept for PN03 which from what I read isn't all that great.  It would have been awesome if you could jump in the air AND shoot.  That would have totally made into my GC library.

PN03 is good when you expect it to be what it is. The game cannot be played on reflexes alone, you cannot run around, dodge projectiles and fire at the same time. The whole point is that you have to know when to stop moving or leave your cover and when to stop attacking and start dodging. The beta trailers show Vanessa running and gunning (with two machine guns) around, apparently they didn't like how the game played just like every other 3rd-person shooter. It's a bit short when you play it on easy, don't do that! Start in Normal or take at most a few levels in Easy so you can beat the first in Normal. Like most arcade shmups, the game doesn't take too long when you're good but can keep you occupied for a long time if you're not a god-player. BTW, some reviews claim you can easily kill a boss by using energy drives, if you read that you know the reviewer was too bad to play the game on Normal.


Ian: This training for a product is called "Consumer Education" by mono/oligopolists like Microsoft and the RIAA and is used to make people buy products with things like overkill copy protection or DRM, something the people hate. If that's the case with sport games, shouldn't we ask ourselves if the games lack something?
I can clearly see it being necessary for making people buy yearly updates, though.

[thecubedcanuck]

"they can make Mario sports games like crazy."

and no body other than die hard NIN fans will even touch them. I hate Mario sports titles personally. Tiger woods 2004  blows Mario golf out of the water.

" For those of you wondering, yes I do consider racing a sport. No duh! Those athletes have to train their feet from falling asleep and their eyes from drooping. I wish I had that skill!! "

You obviously have never drove a race car or know anyone who has.  You would be crying after 3 laps in a winston cup race, and in formula one the noise from the car would make you weep.

[Ymeegod]

"You're in luck. Rainbow Six 3 is coming to the 'Cube later this year"

?  Where did you get this?  I know the PS2 is getting a port but they didn't say anything about the GC.

[Shadow Fox]

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Originally posted by: Ymeegod
"You're in luck. Rainbow Six 3 is coming to the 'Cube later this year"

?  Where did you get this?  I know the PS2 is getting a port but they didn't say anything about the GC.

Nintendo.com.  Raven Shield has been slated for all three consoles since the launch of Xbox and GCN 2 years ago.  Nothing's changed...

As for this whole concept, it's really the fact that sadly, most Nintendo hardcore fans, anti-Nintendo fanboys, and the "mainstream" audience have no clue that GameCube DOES HAVE Mature games- quite a few in fact (only 8 or so less than Xbox).

PS2 is the console with the most M-rated titles (well over 100+), and in that light, both Xbox AND GCN are "kiddy" having only 30+ a piece.

Just look around your local stores...Soul Reaver 2...Hitman 2...True Crime...Dead to Rights...Ghost Recon...RoadKill...Hunter: The Reckoning...you've probably also noticed that in-stores, M-rated GameCube games are damn-near hidden (even Resident Evil titles), PS2 and Xbox versions of the same game are the first thing you see on the wall.  

Is this a blatant act of fanboyism?  Maybe, but I think moreso it's Nintendo's lack of promoting M-rated gems like Eternal Darkness, and making sure they're placed well within the store to gain attention.  I shouldn't have to dig under 50 copies of Olsen Twins or Kirby Air Rid games just to find titles like Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, where it's right in the middle of the PS2 and Xbox sections.

Check your local EB or GameStop and see if they don't follow the same trend...I've seen this in multiple states (even Hawaii), and even in Nintendo's larger chains such as Walmart, Target, and Toys'R us.  Nintendo needs either a street team, or more store visits from Nintendo reps.

But then again, it could just be me...

*P.S. mouse_clicker, I thought about posting this at the OTHER site, but I think there's enough "Debatable" concepts going on over there right now...*

-Official Ninja of PGC  

[odifiend]

cubedcanuck: stop being an ass.  The thread was intially talking about racing simulations whose story lines don't lead you to believe the drivers need anywhere close to NASCAR skill.

[mouse_clicker]

odifiend: He's just correcting a misnformed person- you're veering just as much off topic as cubed is complaining about him.

Shadow Fox: Heh, that thread is definitely a fanboy magnetic- I'm surprised you're still sane.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

KDR_11k: *thumbs up* to your P.N.03 description.  I've actually played this game more than Viewtiful Joe.

[Deguello]

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Main Entry: 1ma·ture
Pronunciation: m&-'tur, -'tyur also -'chur
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): ma·tur·er; -est
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin maturus ripe; akin to Latin mane in the morning, manus good
Date: 15th century
1 : based on slow careful consideration <a mature judgment>
2 a (1) : having completed natural growth and development : RIPE (2) : having undergone maturation b : having attained a final or desired state <mature wine> c : having achieved a low but stable growth rate <paper is a mature industry>
3 a : of or relating to a condition of full development b : characteristic of or suitable to a mature individual <mature outlook>
4 : due for payment <a mature loan>
5 : belonging to the middle portion of a cycle of erosion

Tell me where says Blood, Sex, and being over the age of 17.  The ESRB rating system is flawed.
A Final or desired state?  Slow careful consideration? Completed natural growth and development?  Aren't those characteristic of nearly all Nintendo-made games?

[mouse_clicker]

I believe the Mature rating applies to the buyer rather than the game itself, meaning the person playing the game should be mature. That still leaves a heavy aftertaste of irony, though, because the people that M rated games generally appeal to are immature. Rather the people that look beyond surface features like blood and guts and search for deeper gameplay will usually find Nintendo games, making the average Nintendo fan more mature.