Author Topic: GameCube’s Mid-Term Report Card (Read 72382 times)

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #125 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:33:08 PM »

I never said I wasn't a nerd, Silks- in fact, I'm probably a much bigger nerd than you'll ever be. However, I'm not the one who is trying to run Nintendo.

Cowboy Bebop · « **Reply #126 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:41:17 PM »

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Personally, I like the little extras connectivity has offered, while I'm quite put off by online gaming.

Hence why you think it's OK for Nintendo to throw money at connectivity, but not at on-line gaming. As long as they're catering to your wants it's cool, and you call me selfish.

Unless you can show me proof that connectivity increases sales, I'm going to go on believing that connectivity is a cool little extra but it didn't sell one more copy of Animal Crossing. While if it had been on-line and let you vist other people's towns over the internet, send and receive in game e-mail, allowed you to download other user created images and songs, maybe even user created furniture, it would have increased sales. and more importantly to me, it would have made the game even more fun then it was.

BigJim · « **Reply #127 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:54:35 PM »

FYI:

The 11/17 Press Release Says Xbox Live is "Half a Million Strong"

So as of mid November, Xbox Live was 500K.

Cowboy Bebop · « **Reply #128 on:** December 28, 2003, 02:16:20 PM »

and 25% of the Xbox's user base have gone on-line.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #129 on:** December 28, 2003, 03:01:50 PM »

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Hence why you think it's OK for Nintendo to throw money at connectivity, but not at on-line gaming. As long as they're catering to your wants it's cool, and you call me selfish.

Perhaps I'd rather Nintendo stick with the cheaper albeit equally niche feature of connectivity rather than supporting both online gaming AND connectivity, and lose a ton of money. Also, you know it's impossible to prove that connectivity does or does not improve sales- the Gamecube is the only console that offers the features, so there's nothing to compare it to (as there would be when comparing online games).

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and 25% of the Xbox's user base have gone on-line.

I'm sure close to 100% of the XBox's user base has gone online, just not on the XBox, or on their own XBox. Hell, even I've played XBox Live and I don't even own an XBox.

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FYI:

The 11/17 Press Release Says Xbox Live is "Half a Million Strong"

So as of mid November, Xbox Live was 500K.

Thanks, BigJim.

BigJim · « **Reply #130 on:** December 28, 2003, 03:32:37 PM »

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Originally posted by: Cowboy Bebop
and 25% of the Xbox's user base have gone on-line.

That particular item they crammed into the press release falls under "I'll believe it when I see it." If their subscription penetration jumped from 5% to 25% just over the holiday as they tried to imply, I will donate myself to the clean gene pool efforts and castrate myself.

Cowboy Bebop · « **Reply #131 on:** December 28, 2003, 04:11:03 PM »

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Originally posted by: BigJim

That particular item they crammed into the press release falls under "I'll believe it when I see it." If their subscription penetration jumped from 5% to 25% just over the holiday as they tried to imply, I will donate myself to the clean gene pool efforts and castrate myself.

I think what they were saying is that 25% of their users have tried the service. The xbox comes with 2 free months of live after all. After trying it 500,000 of them felt it was worth subscribing to at $50 a year. At least that's the impression I got.

NWR_Lindy · « **Reply #132 on:** December 28, 2003, 06:33:11 PM »

My God, an actual URL, how refreshing.

MC, I never said I was trying to run Nintendo - you said that. I'm just calling it as I see it. I'm a huge Nintendo fan but I'm not naive either...I'm not going to blindly accept anything that comes out of Satoru Iwata's mouth. Nintendo has a reputation for not catering to older gamers, and their refusal to even acknowledge online gaming (typically the realm of older gamers that can afford to get into it) only hurts their cause even more. The mainstream gaming public certainly doesn't think that Nintendo's lack of online support is "ingenious". The words I would be thinking of would be "oblivious", or maybe "short-sighted", or "uncompetitive", perhaps even "arrogant" or "pretentious".

The one good thing about having Microsoft and Sony on the scene is that it may actually force Nintendo to get off its high horse and see that their philosophy on what video gaming should be isn't the gospel they think it is.

silks

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #133 on:** December 28, 2003, 07:14:00 PM »

Silks, you're just spouting out the same thing I've heard for years, and the same thing I've adressed in my editorial. There's a link to it on the first page.

Kyosho · « **Reply #134 on:** December 28, 2003, 08:03:20 PM »

MC, you've addressed it in your editorial in a naive manner. I am a Ninty fan as well, but I am not going to blindly accept nintendo's decisions and support it if the current market in the US and I are not enthusiastically embracing it.
I leave with this quote:

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Basically, the point I'm trying to make is that Nintendo is doing all they can do-

It should be more like "Nintendo is reluctant to adapt to the market to appease more than just their current loyal fanbase."

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #135 on:** December 28, 2003, 08:06:06 PM »

Kyosho, READ my editorial- I talk all about that in there! Jesus, you'd think people who are so vocal with their opinions would know how to read. Why is anyone who thinks Nintendo is doing fine naive?

Kyosho · « **Reply #136 on:** December 28, 2003, 08:38:28 PM »

Mouseclicker, I've read your editorial a bunch of times already, what exactly DO YOU want me to get out of it? All I got out of it was the fact you are HAPPY with their decisions and you are DEFENDING them full force. So PLEASE point out what do YOU want me to get out of your editorial if you're disagreeing with what I'm getting out of it.

As for accusing you of being naive, go read your posts again. Read your explanations. Then view it from the other party and neutral and see how your explanations and comments will be affected.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #137 on:** December 28, 2003, 09:04:10 PM »

The point of my editorial is that Nintendo is doing just fine- yes, they're not doing as well as they were pre-N64, but that certainly doesn't mean they're doing bad. Nintendo could do better, but I'm perfectly happy with how they're doing now. Nintendo is NOT going anywhere, certainly not because of any bogus online gaming. Get off of it, already! Looking at the words is not the same thing as reading, my friend.

Kyosho · « **Reply #138 on:** December 28, 2003, 10:23:42 PM »

MouseClicker,

That's exactly what I thought your editorial was saying. You've said absolutely NOTHING new to me. You've pretty much reconfirm everything I've said about you. Either your analyzing skills are poor (assuming if you're born in 1988 that's understandable), or you're the one that really needs to read INTO other people's replies instead of just looking at the words. Even less surprising, you're constantly contradicting your opinions on certain issues. I will just leave it at that for you to figure out.

Nintendo will never be as GOOD as they were pre-N64 days unless they step up to the competition that they are facing. The NES performed well due to it being one of the few widely supported 8 bit systems at that time with little competition. The SNES days performed well because developed pushed the system to the limits as well as having mass support with little competition. The N64 days DIED due to what I strongly believe the choice of medium. Developers did not want to use cartridges as a primary source of medium because they are limited to 64-128 Mbits when they can use CDs up to 650 or more MBytes. SM64 was probably a revolutionary design that won back fans and some developers, but it cannot be denied that medium choice was an absolute turnoff to 3rd party developers when they are given the option to further enhance their products from a worthy competitor. Furthermore, it's true that the Gamecube probably is doing better than N64, but IMHO, they arent doing all that much better. Perhaps SALES and PROFIT may disprove my opinion, but we're all in another decade where everything can still be regarded as relative to the past. And relative to the past, performance and sales have been semi-abysmal.

Like I've said before, good for you that you're pleased with Nintendo's approach and current "success." I, like many, am not, and know what potential Nintendo has if they had/will open their eyes even further.

WesDawg · « **Reply #139 on:** December 29, 2003, 04:53:54 AM »

I never heard of the two PS1 connection thing. I wasn't to big into gaming news back then either though. The point is, theres a huge difference between what was going on back then and whats been going on with LAN XBox games. I'm not saying that LAN is the best thing ever, just that to say its been around for a decade is distorting facts. Certainly its been done for a decade at least now, but its only become "mainstream" in the last 2 or 3 years. Nintendo never sold it as a new innovative type of gaming. Just an option.

I still think 3rd party support has been fine. We've got nice huge games coming from Capcom, Namco, and Square. An exclusive Harvest Moon game. Some nice things from Sega. Konami is working with Nintendo to earn a userbase here. Ubi Soft has given us some real cool games all the sudden. EA seems to have no problem releasing their games on the Cube. Factor 5, Silicon Knights. You can play the new Medal of Honor on your Cube, or Timesplitters2, or James Bond. I just don't understand why people are disappointed. Perhaps they want more Mary Kate and Ashley. I would like to try my hand at GTA sometime, but if I really wanted to, I'd get the PC version, so I guess its not that pressing to me.

Retroyoshi · « **Reply #140 on:** December 29, 2003, 04:56:13 AM »

Here is a little something that a lot of you aren't realizing. I know this won't change any deep set opinions, but hear me out.

Ninty is a very conservative busniess. The video game world (heck, the technology world as a whole) is extremely volatile. Just because a few select companies are going though some good times doesn't mean that aggressive expansion (buying developers, expanding into dangerous territory that may not net a return) is a good thing. A lot of publishers and developers have done this and are hurting badly because of it (Sega most notably, but also 3DO, Midway, Sierra, and a lot of others). This is the way it has always been, and probably always will be.

Ninty's strategy is to maxamize return. You don't have to have the largest userbase, most product, or newest technology to do this. This is especially the case when you are dealing with competetors with extremely deep pockets that are pretty much willing to do market studies for you. In the case of "online gaming" the investment right now does not generate enough return to be worthwhile. Only a few 3rd parties have tested the online waters with console games (outside of the Microsoft funded "live exclusives"- an additional investment that generates no return).

The online strategy is akin to the dotcom crazy days. Everyone (developers) has plans for services and great ideas- but absolutly no one knows how to make those investments pay off. A conservative "wait and see" approach is only good busniess. I'm not saying that I'm thrilled with the prospect- because yeah, it would be fun to take Animal Crossing online but there wouldn't be a busniess model behind it, and from MS's live (and even Sega's Dreamcast) experiement only a small minority would even take advantage of it (say animal crossing sold 100,000 copies- that's only 5,000 users).

And incidently- the downside to suing ROM carts as a storage medium is publishing cost; not storage space as frequently mentioned. Just about any PSX game could be delivered in 64MB. Remember, you only have a few MB of video ram you are able to fill at a time (1MB in PSX, if I'm not mistaken). In fact, it's a dream of publishers to be able to publish downloadable games (Probably where MS is trying to eventually go with Live actually), and the size of games will have to accommidate that. Blame publishers for not wanting to pony up another dollar or so to publish on the N64, not the developers for not being able to work with a storage meduim. (If you want to blame Nintendo for anything on the N64, blame them for skimping on the ram). In any case- that ship sailed long ago.

Kyosho · « **Reply #141 on:** December 29, 2003, 08:42:23 AM »

yeah you're right about the publishing costs. I totally forgot about that. The publishing costs were probably the primary reason followed by the size available to work with. The bigger the size, the more costly it was.

As for a conservative approach, Nintendo as far as i'm concerned will have a tough time getting back to the top of the charts and staying there. They have to be more aggressive because it's apparent this conservative approach that we've seen only worked well in the past when 3rd party developers were patient and cooperative enough to work with them.

That 5% everyone keeps talking about is just a rough estimate, and in no way can those statistics be transferred 100% accurately to Nintendo. If explored right, it will generate revenue. I also believe in the matchmaking service. Nintendo does not necessarily need to host *everything* on their servers. They just need to develop a protocol that does peer to peer communication instead of server to peer communication. Granted, if you have something that is an online world like MMORPGs (PSO), that's a different story. But as we've seen so far from the PC world, if you can do it right with an aggressive approach, it will generate profit.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #142 on:** December 29, 2003, 09:32:29 AM »

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Like I've said before, good for you that you're pleased with Nintendo's approach and current "success." I, like many, am not, and know what potential Nintendo has if they had/will open their eyes even further.

Kyosho, you've contradicted yourself just as much as you claim I have. Maybe I don't like being worried constantly, or maybe I choose to trust a company that has been one of the most successful in history while you, who has nothing better to do than create a name on a message board for the sole purpose of arguing this point with me it seems, think you can pick up every problem Nintendo. YOU are saying YOU know how to run Nintendo better than Nintendo does, despite giving me ample reason to believe otherwise. Maybe we just have fundamentaly different opinions, which is why neither of us will get anywhere continuing as we are. I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong, nothing more of it will come.

Also, don't attack people's age- that's a really low thing to do. You wouldn't have known I was 15 if you hadn't checked my profile right before you posted. I have my brithday in there for a very good reason, to prove that age can be very decieving- you expect better things from older people and worse thing from younger people, when the opposite is often true.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #143 on:** December 29, 2003, 09:50:47 AM »

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(assuming if you're born in 1988 that's understandable)

You are now an official dumb@ss. Insulting someone's intelligence based on their age simply to make yourself look better is pathetic. Your opinion now means nothing to me.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #144 on:** December 29, 2003, 11:06:45 AM »

age reflects knowledge and wisdom...but its not a valid counter argument. back to the subject at hand though. i think its unfair to say that only 5% of people want to play consoles online. there are so many intangibles to playing games online. some people think its too much of a hassle. others are more passive towards games and may not even really know about it. others may want it but cant afford it. some may not have good enough internet connections. there is a long list of reasons to not play or to discourage someone from playing online. however that doesnt mean that 95% of people are not interested. i think its safe to say that 50 percent are interested at least. online gaming has lots of potential, and that may be the difference in the next generation. and since nintendo hasnt gotten word out about an online stratagy, people may think at the start of the next generation that they are not commited to it. their lack of planning could have a severe impact on the next nintendo console. in any case they will need to be fully online next generation and they should launch their next console with smash brothers online to convince consumers that they are for real when it comes to online gaming. i dont think anyone who is pro online games here wants nintendo to execute the online stratagy of xbox right now, i think they just want some of the same options that ps2 users have. its not that much to ask for, and nintendo has dropped the ball on this one. i think its safe to say sony is not losing billions from their online games. gamers want the ability to play friends from far off, play random people, or play in online tournaments....the possibilities of online gaming are great, and there is no doubt in my mind that it is the way of the future. no matter what nintendo is doing now, they will need to step it up for the next generation.

odifiend · « **Reply #145 on:** December 29, 2003, 12:30:52 PM »

I'm sick and tired of hearing that the reason that Nintendo can do no wrong in this generation is because in the past Nintendo was one of the most successful companies in the world. Look at Rome, heck go closer to Nintendo's home and look at the samurai. Both civilizations fell (and more similar to Nintendo's situation, the samurai fell because they refused to embrace new technology). I'm a Nintendo fan and have been one since I was three years old, that makes me and Nintendo close, and something major would die inside of me if Nintendo pulled a Rome.
Nintendo's business now should not be allowed to be compared to Nintendo's business of the past. Nintendo no longer controls the video game realm. The level of competition is completely different from what it was then along with the larger part of the video game audience. The N64 days lost Nintendo its momentum. The GCN should be (should have been) the generation to get back out there. Nintendo's present inertia is unacceptable and has been so since developpers stop flocking to their system to make games (circa one year into PSX).
I like Mario, I like Link, I want to marry Samus, hell I'm even ok with a Pokemon or two (Not Pikachu though that no Attack or Special Attack having b!tch, it needs to burn), but most of this adoration was developped from an early age. However the gamers of today, casual gamers who think its just expected of them to have a gaming console but don't really have a clue of what to play, can't identify with Nintendo's franchises because they didn't see them evolve as we have. Therefore they don't buy N. I don't know who said it first but Nintendo needs to develop new, cool franchises with whom the casual gamers can identify or they're sunk.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #146 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:13:00 PM »

No one is sayingthat Nintendo can do no wrong! They have done wrong, they are doing wrong, and they will continue to do wrong! That doesn't go JUST for Nintendo, though, it goes for every company in existence, so why single out Nintendo? I'm not going into this, because I've tried to cram it down unwilling throats long enough, but no one is being a fanboy here, odifiend- simply believing that Nintendo is perfectly fine and in no real danger is NOT being fanboyish.

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no matter what nintendo is doing now, they will need to step it up for the next generation.

Exactly! It's not often I agree with you, nolimit, but it seems this is one subject I can. As I've said, online gaming WILL be popular eventually, but not THIS generation. If Nintendo supports it, or at least offer support for it in the same manner Sony is now, I'll be happy, and if they don't, that's when I'll start worrying.

Kyosho · « **Reply #147 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:59:27 PM »

Mouseclicker,

I have a brother (assuming ur 1988) who is 1 year older than you. Like I said, I have to point that out because it's not necessarily AGE and WISDOM that comes into play. It's simply the fact that I'm talking with a teenager. If any of you have ever talked with a teenager you will know what I mean. I am not using age to attack your choice of opinion, it's the way you approach other people's rebuttals. If you are not that age, then my apologies, but you're still stubborn, confusing, and constantly contradicting

We single out Nintendo because quite frankly we love Nintendo. We want to see it be more successful. I dont care about the PS2 or Xbox. I only care about MY Nintendo. I use PS2's success and Xbox's limited success as an EXAMPLE of this day in age how Nintendo can approach the situation instead of playing it how they did 2 decades ago. My "ample" reasons have been using PS2's, Xbox's, and PC's attributes. Those 3 are catering to the market today, whereas Nintendo is catering to the past.

If you check my profile, you will see that I made this name a while ago. Check my history. I did not make this name just to attack YOU. You are right in that we are probably never ever going to convince each other to step over the line to one side. I believe in this. You believe in that. That's fine we will just leave it at that. It seems you are just pretty much reaffirming everything I've said in your recent posts. However, it feels like I am talking to a schizo in the regard that one second you're agreeing and next second you're disagreeing in strong defense.

Hostile, this will be the 1st time i've said something to you. I am/was never talking to you. Exploiting text on the keyboard just to namecall is far worse than me being pathetic.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #148 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:13:08 PM »

You don't have a profile, Kyosho, or at least you're not making it viewable to the rest of us. And I apologize for misjudging why you created your name, but I've been posting at PGC for almost 2 years now, and that appears to be the only thing you've used your name for. I am indeed 15- I don't lie about my age- but I fail to see how that really comes into play here. I'm lgad you're concerned for Nintendo, because that shows you don't want the best for them, but don't worry. I know it's hard to see Nintendo stumbling, and they may very well be on their way out, but worrying is going to get you nowhere. Worrying gets you into stupid flamewars with people like me.

Stop looking at the statistics and just enjoy the games. I don't care if Nintendo doesn't sell as many units as the competition, as long as they're still making a profit I know they'll be here for quite some time, and that's all that really matters to me. If Nintendo does become #1 again, that's great! But like I've said, it's only icing on the cake because Nintendo's already giving me everything I need, and then some. Just sit down, play the games, and leave Nintendo to worry about the statistics- that's their job, not yours.

As for Hostile's comment, this is message board, and as far as I'm concerned, everyone's opinion matters, whether they were asked for it or not.

Kyosho · « **Reply #149 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:30:51 PM »

Mouseclicker,

namecalling isnt really needed on this message board though, or so it states in the AUP. If anything I am trying really hard to not get into a serious flame war because if anything from my experiences I can be extremely harsh to the point where even if I gave the admin $, i'd still be banned

I am worried for the most part because I am not enjoying my games. I've had the NES a year after it came out. I love the franchises. I remember the SNES was probably the time I had most fun. The N64 started phasing out for me about 6-7 months after the first batch of games. I believe the last game I bought was Majora's Mask which was fun, but pretty much my whole library was 1st during n64 era. During SNES, much of my library was 3rd.

As for the Cube, Metroid was a refreshing rehash for me, though it did not last too long. Super Mario Sunshine I was over it already because it played just like SM64. MKDD, well, I was rather disappointed in some of the multiplay levels and some of the single play levels. The DK level is great. Every level in MKDD should have some sort of complexity just like that. Zelda is probably the best of the bunch. I've had no regrets picking that up. I had pre-ordered 1080, but now I am going to transfer that over to Baten Kaitos in hopes that will be good. I will be picking up FF:CC, and after that nothing really appeals to me on the EB Upcoming List. As you can see, I am very selective in my choice of games. I used to work @ EB, and the ironic thing was I played BEACH SPIKERS over a ton of other games that were out during that time.

I feel it's my duty to tell Nintendo how I feel about their current crop of games. Because like I said, I am not enjoying my games as I could be.

News:

Author Topic: GameCube’s Mid-Term Report Card (Read 72382 times)