Author Topic: The great crash of.....05  (Read 13425 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
The great crash of.....05
« on: December 10, 2003, 05:57:38 PM »
Those of us who played games before Sony may remember a time of the leaders of the one world rule in gaming. Of course I'm talking of Nintendo's monopoly in the 80's. There are also those here who remember how it was before Nintendo. The industry was a sand castle at high tide. But what can the past teach us about the future; for if we learn nothing from the mistakes of the past then we are going to see a replay. Is it inevitable that there will be another crash? Is the industry imune to such recesions in its glutenous state? Will the PC, handheld, and console markets all be affected, and how could it ever happen again? These are the real questions any annylyst must be asking themselves as the industry makes another blind leap over the perpetual bottomless pit of transitioning to the next generation.

I believe it can be prevented, but we may still hit a noticible decline in sells before the industry realizes its mistakes. Buisnesses have cycles. They have their ups and they have their downs. As companies try to follow trends that they percieve as good strategies they begin to lose connection with the market. While following their in house plans the companies fail to see the source of problems, and they only recognize the symptoms.

Everybody is now trying to predict which direction the industry will go, but few are watching the actual market and where it is headed. One could say that the intense graphical upgrade of next gen machines will allow for or supplement the absence of any real change or progression in the integrity in which games are produced. The gameplay must improve. Less emphasis on formulative mission based gameplay and more focus on developing driving forces for which to play the game. The games next gen will obviously have longer development cycles and movie studio level budgets to support the hardwares' sound and graphical capabilties. I could also say that the console market will fall through in light of risky costly ventures in the game software market thus leaving handhelds as the only viable market for at least five years. Just like this gen companies are in great risk of not being able to turn profit just in the purpose of declaring ownership of the market. Next gen we not only need more cel shading capabilties and more polys and more real time lighting featuring variations of mood, atmosphere, temperature, value, hue, color, and intensity. We not only need graphical tricks that can simulate illusions of watercolor and oil paint for asthetic purposes. We need A list actors, symphony music, licensed soundtracks, and much more intensive character animations than we have seen on these present consoles (which are supposed to be able to produce any vision one could come up with; even a realistic zelda?).

What next generation really needs is depthening the gameplay experience. I want free standard online gaming. I believe the controller should become better at simulating our wants in the game. I would suggest a controller that is not only conforming and angled to fit the hands but also does more than any controller has ever done. A screen could become standard just as joysticks have. The left side of the pad would be your normal controller with a trigger and a shoulder button. Also a joypad and dpad. The right side should be a flight stick modified and attached to the left side with multiple functioning such as diagonal movements and turning. On top of the joystick there cold be another analog stick with the same trigger setup. The face buttons in my opinion should be modified cube layout. The surrounding x,y, and b buttons should be more unified so it is easier to go from one to the next. The color shouldn't be flamboiant just for the purpose of showing those of us with the ability to see color that the controller could get uglier. Seriously though if the designer wants to use his tools of 3d design properly then he would allow for a monochromatic color pallet, use nuetrals, and/or allow for the shape to be dominant and not the buttons we are not going to look at in the first place since we are smart enough to know how to decipher without preschool highlighting.

Microphone and voice simulation which is great from what I've heard on Xbox should also become standard. I want to speak through Link in an online/offline 3d multiplayer Zelda. The camera used with the PS2 has given me lots of ideas for controlling basically any game with combat using the hands in the game. The system could use the camera in a next gen system to track the movement of the hand without the use of lightgun technology. Imagine detaching the flight joysick from the rest of the controller and it being the tracer point that the camera follows and uses in a game like Zelda or Soul Calibur allowing you to swing the sword. Perhaps this idea would work best if the controller for a proposed next gen game console were actually two controllers (one held in each hand) which the system tracks as the player moves his/her hands for sword swiping or punching or aiming a gun. This two sperate prongs idea could be used to allow for each prong to be used as a joystick with tilt technology giving the gamer two flight sticks instead of a camera tracing technology. What do you guys prefer?

Enough fantacy of VR gadgets that could depthen and freshen the gaming experience. What will the corporations really do? Sony will rehash the SNES controller again. MS will complicate the controller layout so that it isn't really functional all while stealing what worked for Cube and Dreamcast..I mean Xbox. I predict that MS may be the only one that does offer a screen, camera, and/or mic with the controller. Nintendo may do what the others can't think to do, but they will also dumby up the design again portraying themselves as inferior despite their innovations.

Instead of hair and grass effects in games we will get dvd recorders. Instead of improved controllers we will get outrageous harddrives for what? MP3s? Pirating games? Cutting out the middle man and rentals with free demos for download instantly. Downloading old 2d games legally from say Nintendo or Sega?

The industry needs another revolution that can change the way we play not what we play on the machine. I don't need any of the functions of a PC in my gaming machine like dvd playback. The purpose of the game console is to be a stripped down computer that is cheap and soley plays games.

The industry continues to give into shoddy shortcut money making schemes and loses those buyers that are traditionally longtime customers. By applying mainly to the softcore croud the game industry is vulnurable to collapse when the softcore and noncore move on. There will be little to no hardcore left because the hardcore is there for actually rewarding experiences and is smart enough to think for themselves and realize the thrill is gone long before the drones of "cool" game croud ever nows it.

The ultimate nail in the coffin is that there can only be 2. No more no less. Two consoles can be owned by some college kids, but 3 or 4. With the fragmented market there is no way to apply to the broad market to sell games. Half the gamers are portable. The other half is split 3 ways in uneven portions. This means one must play the smaller range and availabilty of A quality titles on the one system one owns rather than being able to buy nearly every good game that comes out which one would do if the games weren't all spread out over what looks to be a new generation of 5 machines. PSP, GBCube, X2, N5, and PS3...a bit crowded isn't it? And who is to say that another company isn't learking in the shadows with a worthy gaming machine that noone is expecting. Greed; that "if I can't have it all then I'll help kill the beast," mantality is going to end the industry.


I posted this on another site and then responded to another person with the following post.

The market cannot support 5 systems and you know it Strider. The post says in it that this has not been a profitable generation with four (five if you count DreamCast) systems. Nintendo posted loses earlier in the year despite GBA sales. Nintendo could hold the momentum coming out of this gen owning already 98% of the handheld market and awesome sales this holiday which may affect the direction of the rest of the generation as PS2 sales slow and Xbox sales dwindle. If pricing wars insue to counter Cube sells then MS and Sony stand to lose more money in console sells than they could possibly gain in profits from game sells. MS is spending billions and getting nothing from this venture but the ultimate downfall of the whole industry.

I propose that if the number of systems is not limited and the level of innovation does not rise then the flemsy mainstreme market will disperse while the hardcores are the only ones left buying games and they will all be split up between 5 consoles unable to buy all of the games they could potentially buy killing the market. The industry isn't superman and cannot survive nonprofitability. Plus what is the purpose of even moving on to the next gen and buying another $300 system if nothing new is offered?


the industry thinks it is so big that it can't outgrow it own market.  Well today we may be despensable users, but tommorow we will be valued again.
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2003, 09:14:22 AM »
I don't think Nintendo will use any of the controller ideas you mentioned. More exactly, I have reason to believe Nintendo is working on a customizable controller. They have a patent that talks about controllers with "switches" (probably buttons) that can be removed and placed somewhere else on the controller. I have no exact idea, what the patent means (I don't understand lawyerish) and the images won't show for me, but it still sounds plausible: A piece of hardware that is unlike anything before it and might change the way we play our games.

I hope next time the distribution ends equal for all. That way publishers can no longer prefer one or the other based on sales numbers.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2003, 08:06:06 PM »
Thanks for reading my post.  On the other site I posted it the xbots were just too young to be able to sustain the attention span required to read a post that is to say the least full.

I've heard only a few ideas like the one you're talking about.  I could never figure out how it would work so I haven't really considered it.  It would be phenominal if one could rearange or program a digital pad of buttons for any game.  Each genre would have its on layout.  This is the kind of thing Nintendo would focus on.  MS seems like they would focus on depthening the control by giving us at least one flight stick if not two along with analog sticks on top giving us the ultimate options for aiming, looking, moving, and straffing (and sword play).  The custom button layout idea should be coupled with the flight sticks allowing for the deepest and most versitile controller around.
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline MaxXUnlimited

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2003, 01:18:05 PM »
I'm certain the industry can handle 5 game machines. It's basically the same as it is now, three home consoles and a two handhelds. So don't worry.

And "free standard online gaming" ha, I doubt that'll never happen. They use that monthly fee to maintain the servers I believe.

"I don't need any of the functions of a PC in my gaming machine like dvd playback. The purpose of the game console is to be a stripped down computer that is cheap and soley plays games."
I agree with you 100% on that though.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2003, 05:29:23 AM »
Nintendo owns 98% of the handheld market.  There is no competition in the handheld market.  Ngage is just one of a hundred failures to come in the next 5 years.  The PSP is the only thing that can actually compete with Nintendo and their outstanding reputation of slaying every handheld wether cheaper or more functional or even more powerful to come to the market.  The only way Sony can compete is if they offer both an uber functional expensive version and a stripped down version that just plays the games.  Also the PSP is said to be dissapointing developers in the way the N64 did with its overpowered hardware and lack of ram to access that power.  I believe that NIntendo should release both a cell phone or cd playing version of their handheld as well as a gaming only machine.  Either way I just want wireless connectivity with the N5 or for the next GB to be the controller and come with the N5.  I'm sure there is a cell company out there dying to get their name on a GameBoy; as you already probably know it is the hottest selling ticket in hardware ever.

I believe and will continue to believe that the market will continue to lose its profitability and market growth with the increase in consoles on the market.  I don't want this to become as the PC market has.
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2003, 07:52:54 AM »
Considering the cutbacks Sony made on the PSX I have doubts the PSP will appear with the specs named so far.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2003, 09:07:01 AM »
I bet it doesn't turn out as powerful as they say, but I do know that if they put in mp3, cell phone, and gaming technology then noone in the handheld market will want it because it will cost 300 bucks.  The handheld market is one of cheap scapes.
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2003, 10:39:47 AM »
Oh, no doubt it won't bring the performance Sony claimed, however, I believe even the technical specs might get scaled down.

Offline joeamis

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2003, 01:45:53 PM »
well I'd say the PSP will only be scaled down if it's rushed, that is the only reason the PSX was scaled down.

maxx the industry can in no way handle 5 different consoles, throughout history either 1 console has been dominant or 2 have been equal while the rest fail and die an early death.  consoles and handhelds are separate, period.  
.

Offline Chongman

  • LOL Breaking Tables is Cool!
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2004, 07:07:14 PM »


so THIS is the infamous crash everyone was talking about. I was like...wha? Now I get it.


I agree with you wholey, the market cannot support 5 different consoles...perhaps 3, tops, and thats only if its 2 console 1 handheld. It just drowns everything and like you mentioned, no one makes money so everyone dies. But hey, check out this quote from NOA vice president of marketing Perrin Kaplan in GMR magazine:

"People say 'Why don't you do what Microsoft does?' Well, thats never been nintendo and it wil never BE nintendo." Nintendo will never take a loss in hardware....and it wont do something just because everyone else is doing it. This is the Nintendo way. Dedication to a conservative business plan, Nintendo believes, means that when this crazy console war ends and we all get to go home, "It's very,very likely that we'll be the last ones standing."


I believe that is so true, and I think Nintendo's business plan, if a crash does happen, will in the end succeed to pull it through. Microsoft may lose too much money and finally quit and Sony might slowly erode away in mediocrity, but nintendo will always strive to be innovative and fresh and (though it sounds greedy, it IS essential) they'll always seek to make a dollar today so they can make another game tomorrow.


And speaking of the psp, the only possible way Sony can take over that market, is if its magical little walkman of the futre is priced at under 150 bucks, which is very very very unlikely. How stupid is Sony? They're not making a game machine for gamers, they're making a machine for preps :-P
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
ooberage
------------
in the days of yesteryear I'm still playing SMB3, chrono trigger, and
reading calvin and hobbes

~*~*~*~
PSP vs NDS....c'mon...really...who in their right gaming mind will buy the PSP?

Believe...Nintendo
Stop....whining

Offline odifiend

  • "Who's the tough guy now Vinnie?"
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2004, 09:57:40 AM »
Yeah no doubt Nintendo will be last standing if a crash were to occur.  The company has no debts and 6 billion in cash.  Also the company is responsible for some of the greatest games in history and will continue to produce great games regardless of what 3rd party company goes out of business, something Sony or M$ can't boast.
As for the PSP I heard that if it has half of what the boast it has the price will be around 500+ dollars, placing it so far from the Game Boy it isn't even in the same market.  If that's true they'll fail miserably because adult gamers or not, most people don't have $500 dollars to sink in anyting much less a portable video game system.
nemo: I agree with your preminition of a crash.  Also I like your ideas, but the controller would be so ridiculously expensive it would alienate the children and even the adults Nintendo caters to.  Still I imagine your control and can't help but salivating.  However the fighting game I idea would be harder than you made it seem.  As the former owner of Sega's Activator I can tell you that for a game like Soul Calibur, the controllers would have to use your movement to mimic button combinations and that it would not be that fun.  Even if the controllers could mimic your actual movement, the game would be uneventful unless the gamers were surprisingly agile. Can you do a backflip, I sure can't.  Otherwise nice read.
Kiss the Cynic!

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2004, 08:36:34 PM »
The Gameboy won against many competitors, all of them more powerful. But all of them had low battery lifes.

Offline darknight06

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2004, 06:53:35 AM »
NGPC and the Wonderswan had battery lives comparable to the GBC.

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2004, 07:46:17 PM »
Hm, the PSP is shaping up to have a huge launch (every dev trying to make 3-4 titles on launch except for Square Enix). Oh god, what will happen when a huge lineup, overbloated specs and infuriating battery life combine? Imagine all the good games appeared only on PSP, but the PSP doesn't offer enough battery life to play any of them for an acceptable duration. Hell, imagine playing FF and running into a 30 minute cutscene with only 15 minutes of battery left...

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2004, 08:48:45 PM »
I wonder how Square will draw its lines next gen on devoting games to systsmes?
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2004, 08:34:22 AM »
Like they did it all the time: who sells most gets 'em.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2004, 11:27:57 AM »
That's funny cause I think that is just the PR crap that companies like to feed us.  The real reason they left Nintendo couldn't have been sales as N64 before Square left stood to lead the market like an unstopable barbarian.  It couldn't be cause the system was hard to dev for since Square stood to make their profits back since the system was going to burry the competition and they didn't seem to care when PS2 was discovered to be just as difficult to dev for as the N64 was.  Why did they leave Nintendo?

The overall industry profits are down for the year by the way guys, and that overall profit is devided between GBA, PS2, GC, Xbox, Ngage, and the pc market with the GBA and PS2 taking in most of the mulla.  I think it was in talkback that I read about the industry comparison year to year.  And 03 was supposed to be a peak year.  
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline odifiend

  • "Who's the tough guy now Vinnie?"
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2004, 01:38:03 PM »
I heard that a Square higher up and ex-President of Nintendo Yamuchi(?) had a  major falling out when Square publically insulted the N64.  That led to the President's refusal to let them develop for Nintendo.
Aside from that there are other reasons, the catridges are expensive and Square would need a lot of them to put a game like FFVI on (only held 64 MB? where as a CD ROM holds up to 700 MB).
Kiss the Cynic!

Offline manunited4eva22

  • Got 1337?
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2004, 01:45:19 PM »
The largest cart was indeed 64MB, but honestly if they had put a decent compression algorythm on it they could have had it down to 500MB, not nearly 2.4GB

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2004, 06:42:54 PM »
then how did capcom fit two disks of RE2 onto one cart?
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline Blade2T33

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2004, 12:33:31 AM »
They took out the FMVs

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2004, 05:33:16 AM »
Nope, heavy compression.

Offline Blade2T33

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2004, 08:17:00 AM »
Yes and they took out the FMVs

Offline darknight06

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: The great crash of.....05
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2004, 10:47:11 AM »
All the FMV was completely intact, despite being heavily compressed.  Bottom line was they basically managed to get an entire 2 disk game into a 64MB cart, and that alone was a feat all on it's own.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:The great crash of.....05
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2004, 06:21:19 AM »
the new Iwata interview in my opinion fully confirms many of my fears of lack of creativity and simply attention to what the market is really doing these days.
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg