Topic: Bring Back Clerks!

[mouse_clicker]

No it wasn't, nolimit- YOU didn't bash Catholocism, DOGMA did and you simply stated that fact.

[Grey Ninja]

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Originally posted by: Bill

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Originally posted by: nolimit19
well i did like dogma because it trashed the catholic cult...

I really don't appreciate that comment...Keep your hating to yourself, thank you very much...

I must add this disclaimer, as I recognize that I am too drunk to be posting.  *PLEASE DON'T HATE ME TOMORROW*

But I have to agree with nolimit's original statement here.  I used to have a friend who was very christian (I miss her), and she would always have a good argument with me whenever we spoke of such things.  I practically begged her to watch Dogma, and I got her to agree, but under conditions (I forget what it was).  Dogma presented Christianity as an IDEA that got blown way out of proportion by human nature.  I think that that's the most rational explanation for what happened all those years ago.

Goddamn I hate being a rational drunk.  I still think like I do when sober, but I am more likely to say things I would rather keep my mouth shut about when sober.  Even worse, I know what I am doing.  PLEASE don't hold this against me.

[nolimit19]

lol....well i did say it was a cult....which has a negative conitation....but by definition....most any relgion is a cult. but yea i shouldnt have called it a cult....but i did like the movie because it pointed out a lot of messed up things within certain religions.  

[Bill Aurion]

That's ok...I guess I flipped a little too...As a Catholic myself I tend to be a little over-protective

The Catholicism that was "smashed" in Dogma was that of the Roman Catholic Church, which I think really needs to go...Here in the U.S., we Catholics tend to be a lot more leniant on a lot of issues, especially myself.  I don't approve of the point of a Pope, I think Pastors should be able to marry, girls should be able to alter-serve(which we practice at our church), and I don't approve of the Vatican's highly biased opinion on homosexuality...Remember, we Catholics aren't all like those at the Vatican...

Sorry for going off-topic...

[nolimit19]

the only problem i have with the catholic church is its deal with having to talk to a priest for forgiveness.....and the idea that pope is gods mouth piece on earth....strait blasphamy.

edit: is it true that the guy who made the movie is a catholic?

[The Omen]

I think Mallrats is funny, but in no way do i think its funnier than Clerks.  And as movies, i like all of them better than Mallrats.  Then again, i'm not adverse to watching Mallrats 100 times like i have  Being a Jersey boy, i just relate a lot to Clerks, with the One stop shop, the arguing going on during their hockey game, its just all so real.

And Quentin Tarantino is great.  But a lot of people just repeat what they here somebody else say.  I've heard people say hes the greatest director, yet they've never seen Reservoir dogs.  Of the last 20 years, he's certainly in the top 5 , as far as influence.  

[The Omen]

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the only problem i have with the catholic church is its deal with having to talk to a priest for forgiveness.....and the idea that pope is gods mouth piece on earth....strait blasphamy.

edit: is it true that the guy who made the movie is a catholic?

I'm catholic, and i dont ask any priest for forgiveness.   See, its not hard  But we really don't want to get into this subject so....

Kevin Smith is catholic.  But if you followed the movie, you'd see , although on the surface it appears very negative, there is positivity hidden underneath.  He's said as much in recent interviews.  He's also said he wasnt making a statement, and people who look at a movie with a giant sh!t monster in it , and try and interpret the message, are a little off the mark.  

[nolimit19]

TOP 5!!! what about.....

tim burton
james cameron
woody allen
oliver stone
steven spielberg

well maybe your right

[Grey Ninja]

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Originally posted by: The Omen

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the only problem i have with the catholic church is its deal with having to talk to a priest for forgiveness.....and the idea that pope is gods mouth piece on earth....strait blasphamy.

edit: is it true that the guy who made the movie is a catholic?

I'm catholic, and i dont ask any priest for forgiveness.   See, its not hard  But we really don't want to get into this subject so....

Kevin Smith is catholic.  But if you followed the movie, you'd see , although on the surface it appears very negative, there is positivity hidden underneath.  He's said as much in recent interviews.  He's also said he wasnt making a statement, and people who look at a movie with a giant sh!t monster in it , and try and interpret the message, are a little off the mark.

What I interpretted the movie as was his opinion:  (sorry, I know that didn't make sense)

Catholicism is not entirely flawed, and is right in principle.  It is completely wrong in its interpretation.  

[nolimit19]

i think ninja hit it on the head. you see....if you dont ask a priest for forgiveness....you really arent catholic....you are protestant. thats why the reformation happened, and i know there are tons of catholics who dont believe in confession, which makes me wonder why they dont leave to find a church that fits their beliefs.

[Grey Ninja]

actually, I was referring to Kevin's statement that Religion should be based upon an IDEA, and not a belief.

[nolimit19]

yea we have totally different points, but what you said: "catholicism is not entirely flawed, and is right in principle. It is completely wrong in its interpretation." same means, but a different end....but i get what you are trying to say too.

[Bill Aurion]

Haha...The major differences between Protestantism and Catholicism lie in Communion among other things...not just in the confession of sins

Protestants don't believe in the intercessory role of saints, Catholics do...

Protestants don't believe in a "head of the church," Catholics do(though I don't)

Protestants believe that the act of Communion is a memorial, Catholics believe the bread and wine actually becomes the body and blood of Christ

The Sacraments: Catholics believe in Baptism, the Eucharist, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, and the Anointing of the Sick...Protestants only believe in Confirmation and Baptism...

Catholics believe in Purgatory, Protestants believe you go straight to heaven...(I take purgatory to be more of a figurative thing...If you've seen Cowboy Bebop: The Movie, that pretty much explains my belief of purgatory )

Catholics believe in Immaculate Conception(Mary was born without sin), Protestants do not

Protestants accept only the Bible alone as their main rule of faith, Catholics take it as one of the major ones(though not the Bible by itself)

That's your religion lesson for the day...

(and I would just like to add: It is INCREDIBLY rare that you'll find someone who believes every little piece of the religion they are part of...)

[nolimit19]

well i understand all that, but the initial reason that martin luther left the church was because of the idea that we needed people to talk to god for us that and salvation by works....all that other stuff isnt important. and not all protestants believe you go strait to heaven. there are protestant denominations that believe everything catholics do except that you can talk to god directly. no religion talk in general chat!! *hits himself in the face*

edit: the ability to talk to god directly is hardly a little thing, i would consider it a major issue. *continues to hit himself in the face*  

[Bill Aurion]

Actually, Luther left the Church because back in the 16th century(and before, for that matter) the Catholic church was full of corruption.  Basically, you could "buy" your sins away by buying little religious tokens that the Church sold, which honestly was a really crappy way of dealing with sins...That and the fact that Popes openly were perverted, money-grubbers, caused Luther to break away...

Thankfully most of that has changed...

[The Omen]

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i think ninja hit it on the head. you see....if you dont ask a priest for forgiveness....you really arent catholic...

Really now?  I guess someone is going to take my special catholic members only card away?  All religions have problems, and frankly, Dogma could've been about Judeism, Protestant. or scientology for all i care.  The fact that hes catholic is why he chose catholicism.  But the movie would work with all religions.  Just change a few things here and there.  Would you then be in here bashing, lets say, protestants?  Or is it only a cathoolic thing?

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you are protestant. thats why the reformation happened, and i know there are tons of catholics who dont believe in confession, which makes me wonder why they dont leave to find a church that fits their beliefs.

I am?  See you're worse than the church.  You're saying i'm this or that because thats what you believe a protestant is.  I believe whatever i believe whether i'm catholic or not.  If i become protestant, do my beliefs change?  There is no church that envelopes my beliefs fully.  

[nolimit19]

"Luther's ambitions of reformation emerged from his lifelong search for spiritual conclusions in his personal life. After many years of studying the scriptures, he came to reject all theology based only on tradition and embraced the idea of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through faith."

http://www.victorious.org/chur40.htm?o=0

i am not saying that if you believe you can talk to God directly, that you cant be catholic...but you are really only catholic in name and maybe a few other traditions. the reason for Luther doing was he did was based on the fact that relgion was depersonalized and he felt it was wrong. im not making fun of you or anything, and im not saying protestants are better then catholics....im just saying that what you believe on that particualr docterine is one of the MOST FUNDAMENTAL of protestant beliefs. there are certain protestant denominations that are way off when compared to catholic...i wont say who though.

[mouse_clicker]

Omen: If no one church can fully encompas our beliefs, you can't say you're a Catholic, or for that matter a Protestant, or Jew, or Muslim, or whatever. You can share Catholic beliefs, but you're not a Catholic.

Also, I can't help but notice nolimit's abundance of anti-evolution signatures. Does that instill a bit of doubt in anyone else as to how impartial his views on religion are?

[theRPGFreak]

I just got on, and the post has now gotten real deep into people's religoins. I myself, am not a Catholic, but Christian. The problem that I am seeing here is that you are complaining about the authority of the Catholic Church and forgivness. The way that I see it, it is not up to the church to forgive you, but forgiveness is a connection that you can only make with Jesus himself. The people at the Catholic Church are sinners themselvs, so I don't understand why that they have the authority to forgive you. Jesus paid the ultimate price and died on the cross so that we could be forgiven, and loves us very much. I think that you should all stop worrying on the subject and move on. I also appoligize if what I have said has offended anyone.

[The Omen]

Mouse-clicker, my foundation lies in catholicism, therefore i am a catholic.  If i'm practicing or not, thats another story.   Frankly,I have belief in things that most normal people think are crazy.  I guess you can say i'm a progressive catholic.

[mouse_clicker]

Okay, then your views are based on Catholocism, which would indeed certify you as a Catholic- I was just saying that someone who piecemeals their religious views from many different religions can't claim to be apart of any one of them. Since you didn't do that, though, it doesn't apply to you.

[nolimit19]

well to be technical....Catholocism isnt a religion, and niether is any protestant church. they are all different denominations of the Christian religion. so its not that bad to have different beliefs from one denomination, and different one from another....however if you were to mix to random religions together, then you may want to think again. as for how impartial i am....i am pretty open to any idea of religion except the idea that there is no god. every other variation between a God and evolution i can at least try to understand....but the idea that life magically sprang from nothing from some MAGICAL EXPLOSION is absolutely absurd. no explosion ever created anything, so how can you say that something as complex as life could be created by an expolsion. besides that though...i am open to anything. i have really looked into a couple religions, and most all the denominations of Christianity....this isnt something i was born with, i found it on my own.

[mouse_clicker]

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but the idea that life magically sprang from nothing from some MAGICAL EXPLOSION is absolutely absurd.

Fair enough- I find it equally absurd to assume that life was created just as spontaneously from some magical being. And seeing as we're both such "experts" on the evidence of the opposite party's views, I don't think either of us are really in any position to defend such an opinion, much less argue it, right?    

[Bill Aurion]

Well, there was the Big Bang....

But anyways, just wanted to add that you can still strongly follow your faith even if you don't follow every aspect of your religion...I believe in the theory of evolution, yet I still believe that Jesus existed...What am I supposed to do?  Make my own religion?

[nolimit19]

well isnt scientology or something like that the religion the believes God used evolution. if you dont believe in creation i think it would be hard to call yourselfa Christian. im not trying to step on any toes here, i just never met anyone that believed that(evolution and Christianinty), that could explain their stance. i know a Catholic kid that believed in evolution, but he never explained why he did besides "im a scientist"....needless to say he was a wannabe scientist and i knew more about evolution then he did....but how does it work if you dont mind explaining, and are there a lot of people in your church that believe it as well?