Author Topic: the end of humanity  (Read 49179 times)

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Offline The Omen

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2003, 03:26:10 PM »
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Anyway, that's a nice speech and all, but it does nothing to prove any point of your whatsoever.


So, Mouse-clicker, when are you going to prove it's not detrimental? Are racial slurs acceptable to you as well?  They're only words, aren't they?

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 Times are changing- you either change with them or get left behind.


Just like the french going along with the Nazis?  If they're changing for the worst, should i still change with them?  What are we, lemmings?
Saying words have no meaning is great and all, But we dont live in an utopian society, where everythings how its supposed to be, do we?

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Wow, some of you guys really would hate me in person. I mean, I can be nice and all, but I have a nice little poddy mouth. I mean honestly, if you are shallow enough to come off and go on a pouty escapade about 5 words I use invariably, I really don't need to waste my time talking to you.


Wow, I was unaware you had a t.v. show.  We're talking about television, in case you missed it.  Many have already admitted that they curse all the time, including myself, so what relevance does your post hold?  
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2003, 03:26:38 PM »
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Second, that if you call me a "f***er", you're just bringing yourself down to my level.


I honestly don't think you meant to write what you wrote
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Offline ThePerm

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2003, 03:45:47 PM »
Fuzz!
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2003, 04:11:54 PM »
"Just like the french going along with the Nazis? If they're changing for the worst, should i still change with them? What are we, lemmings?"

Hahah!  Hilarious!

The Perm.....did you just swear at me in another language???  I don't care!  I am stronger than that!  Hoo-rah!
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2003, 04:22:04 PM »
No, I meant that, but it was in a hypothetical situation from your point of view. Meaning if you were pissed off enough at me to call me a "f***er", doing so would only bring you down to the level you see me at.

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And what then, forty years after that? Which vulgarities will we have justified by then? Under age Sex? Drugs? Pornography in daytime television? When do we stop undermining the morality that has made our nation great?


Whe are you going to realize it's not our morality (or lack thereof) that makes our nation great? The US is full of sleeze balls and people who are afraid of offending everybody- THEY'RE not why our country is great, my friend. THEY'RE why everybody else hates us.

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So, Mouse-clicker, when are you going to prove it's not detrimental? Are racial slurs acceptable to you as well? They're only words, aren't they?


I won't call someone a racial slur because I know it would most likely offend them- racial slurs are the biggest problem I have. They lack definitions, like f*** or sh**- they're simply alternate names for a group of people. Why are some names worse than others? It doesn't make sense! Like I said, I'm mindful of other people's views and wouldn't call them a racial slur, but that doesn't mean I think the word is "bad".

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Just like the french going along with the Nazis? If they're changing for the worst, should i still change with them? What are we, lemmings?
Saying words have no meaning is great and all, But we dont live in an utopian society, where everythings how its supposed to be, do we?


Perhaps you misread me, but what I meant was that if you stubbornly try to remain in the past, you WILL be left behind with no one to blame but yourself. You must react to the future, not let it carry you along. And saying words have no meaning isn't JUST for an idealistic society. Sure, it would be ideal if everyone realized as such, but that doesn't change the fact the the only reason YOU don't want the word f*** being said on network television is because YOU find it offensive. *I* don't find it offensive, so how can f*** have the same meaning to me?  
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2003, 04:24:03 PM »
ummmm, thanks perm........ . . . .
And I think it's quite strange that you've gotten around the language filter, and i have mentioned that before.

IF you're parents start swearing at you, like Perm's example of 'f**king get over here*, then
1) you're gonna become just like them, ie you're gonna start swearing and cussing 24/7 too
2) you're gonna think that it's OK to swear 24/7

So it does come down to how you were brought up. Parents and outside influences such as entertainment and the schoolyard environment are majorly involved. And not just for how kids talk either, but how they behave and the way they judge and perceive the world around them.
Sure, maybe TV broadcasters wouldn't show extreme violence or extreme profanity unless people already do that as Perm said, but it's one HUGE paradox:
People are influence by what they see on TV, but then broadcasters show things on TV based on what is popular with the masses. It's like the games industry, but thats for another time. I've done classes on all of this stuff before. We watched videos, did readings, wrote essays, all of this in school AND University.
And nolimit, it was the topic of consumerism

If this loop continues, then the morals of humanity (not humanity in general like the thread says), will come to and end. When that happens though, it will seem like humanity will end. People will have no concept of decent behaviour:
Do you think it's ok to harrass women? Grab their asses and make passes at them? Even protitutes are people too. Do you think it's ok to swear out loud in public? DO you think it's ok to be abusive to kids or your parents? To others? Do you think that it's ok to kill someone because he tried to do any of the above? What about starting riots at Sporting matches cause your team lost?

If you answered yes to any of these, leave. NOW.

My friends seem to love driving to this hotspot in Sydney where protitues work and throw eggs, profanity and other things at them (not Kings Cross, its too crowded). They've even asked me to join them, but i *sadly* have to decline as I'm doing assignments for uni. Their behavour is wrong, and i've said that to them, but they still do it whenever they're cruising around and get bored.

I know that poeple swear in public, like Mouse Clicker, Perm, Ninja and others have proclaimed, but when you do, how do you do it? Do you just do it when talking to your friends, in a private conversation? Out loud like so many gangs and other indecent people? Do you actualy have a brain and switch it on every now and then to know when NOT to swear or act indecently?
I know that private conversations can become loud, like when there's a joke or you can't seem to controlt he volume of your voice, but then it DOES become offensive.

Mouse, i know you don't have a problem with people swearing at you (maybe even abusing you?), but then many people say thet simply to keep their chin up and act tough. Maybe it IS ok with you, I'll never know, cause I'll never have the chance to meet you and do it in person (thats not a threat ok? Don't take it personally - it's just an example for my rant here ).

There might be some inconsistencies in my rant, but meh. Correct if i'm wrong and i'll just reply back with a rebuttle.
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Offline nolimit19

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2003, 04:31:09 PM »
well its true that morality doesnt make the us great...what makes it even great is when someone makes a good arguement, and the opposition completely ignores it. its this kind of blindness that is leading america to a path of destruction....i mean, if you dont believe me, i will just be proven right with time. ever wonder why people cant go out at night anymore without being afraid of being mugged and raped?? its not because of people like me trying to keep standards that for sure. you do realize there was a time in american history not to long ago when you could hitch hike from coast to coast without any fear of anything. but with all this crazy liberal rubbish going around we are breeding a country of drug addicts, rapists, monkeys and hippos...o yea and not to mention blind people who think you should be able to say what ever they want to anyone and ignore good arguments that contradict their own. if you stand for nothing, you fall for anything.

edit: consumerism and the way it owns our society is scary, and unless you understand that concept, you may not understand where i am coming from entirely. and just because you have no respect for yourself and dont mind people cussing at you, doesnt mean that everyone else is a gutless coward like you.
A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.

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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2003, 04:31:13 PM »
Let's make one more important distinction- swearing is NOT the same as sexual harrassment, or of the like. I don't know how they can even be compared. I DO believe in decent behavior, but I DON'T believe swearing should be counted among that. I don't even know why we have a special set of words we can't say- WORDS are WORDS, people. What those words mean depends on the person but the fact remains that words can NEVER hurt you if you don't let them. It's as simple as that. The reason people find swearing offensive is because they let themselves find it offensive, not because it IS offensive, which is subjective. Therefor something that is subjective should NOT be censored, as different people will take it different ways, and those who take it negatively just DON'T have to watch the show. I'm surprised such a large discussion has sprung from something like this.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2003, 04:37:15 PM »
I never cuss unless it will make something funnier, or if I'm mad at F-Zero GX.  And if people cuss at me, I laugh.  It doesn't really matter to me that much, but so you know words are not just words.  They are capable of extreme damage. . . I don't like censorship.  The Breakfast Club is one of my favorite movies eva', and I saw it the other day on TBS or something.  They had all the "naughty" words bleeped out.  It was hilarious for one viewing, since the dubbing was so horrid, but it'd ruined the movie for a first viewer.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
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Offline nolimit19

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2003, 04:40:33 PM »
some people have a higher thresh hold for physical pain then others....and there are laws about that. we cant just go out and hit people in teh face...but if it doesnt hurt then its ok right...of course it is. no harm no foul. the point is people are hurt by words and you cant make everyone believe the way you do. who gets hurt when there is no cussing on tv...no one except mouse because he likes people cussing at him. however who gets hurt or offended when people do cuss.....many people do....i dont see how that is hard to understand. what about when someone robs someone else. the person doing the robbing gets all this free stuff.....its not hurting him....and for some reason i wont be suprised when i get no response, because you cnat respond to that. just run to your tv and hear scare face say the f word 186 times if it makes you feel better because there is no real good argument in favor for cussing in a public domain.  
A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.

Thomas Paine

Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2003, 04:42:15 PM »
"but if it doesnt hurt then its ok right...of course it is."

I don't think it is.  You can get arrested for just threatening somebody in public.  Hitting them without doing any damage is still illegal.
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Offline nolimit19

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2003, 04:43:54 PM »
lol yea that was my point...i was being sarcastic. sorry for the lack of clarification
A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.

Thomas Paine

Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2003, 04:44:52 PM »
WHOOPSY-DAISIES!!!
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2003, 05:25:39 PM »
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Quote: mouse_clicker
Let's make one more important distinction- swearing is NOT the same as sexual harrassment, or of the like. I don't know how they can even be compared. I DO believe in decent behavior, but I DON'T believe swearing should be counted among that. I don't even know why we have a special set of words we can't say- WORDS are WORDS, people. What those words mean depends on the person but the fact remains that words can NEVER hurt you if you don't let them. It's as simple as that. The reason people find swearing offensive is because they let themselves find it offensive, not because it IS offensive, which is subjective. Therefor something that is subjective should NOT be censored, as different people will take it different ways, and those who take it negatively just DON'T have to watch the show. I'm surprised such a large discussion has sprung from something like this.


Geez Mouse clicker!
I/we are saying that swearing how YOU view it to be is indencent behaviour. I'm not saying that swearing is as bad as sexual harrassment, but it comes under the SAME topic of indecent behaviour. The fact that sexual harrassment is a more serious offence probably leads you to believe that the two can't be compared. And to an extent, you're right. What I'M trying to say is that it all starts somewhere:

Kids learn to swear form their parents. Ok, fair enough. They also learn swear words and how they are used through song lyrics and movies.
I'm no psychologist, but I'll try my best.
It all comes down to the parents.
Kids are naturally rebellious in one way or another to their parents - at what age depends on the kid. Usually when your parents tell you not to swear, you think it's a cool grown up thing so you start swearing too. That always happens. When they tell you to do something, you do something else. Not all the time, but some times. It happens in all cases, like being grounded, going to a 'sleep over', going to a 'birthday party', etc.
Another thing that kids like to do is FEEL and ACT like grown ups. This is fact. I've done it, you've done it, your parents and grandparents have done it. This all has to do with the fads and trends of the day.
Now, girls are influenced by teen sensations and pop idols such as Hilary Duff, Britney Spears, Spice Girls, Destiny's Child......the list goes on. As such, they start wearing those clothes, acting like sluts and proclaming girl power. It makes them feel older, and part of something bigger. It happens to the guys too, although not as much and extreme as girls. Eminem, Justin Timberlake, John Mayer (he's a cool cat this guy ).
Kids listen to RnB, hip hop and rap. There is just so much of it around, it's thick enough to cut with a knife. The tunes maybe phat, the intent maybe cool, but the lyrics are just sometimes too extreme to be heard by young ears. But still, it goes on. They tell us to 'respeckk' (!) their art, and fine, i do. It's just that once something becomes cool, everyone does it.

NOw, onto my main point again.
Parents sometimes, although nowadays mostly realise that their kids wish to act like grown ups. So they let their kids listen to Eminem with no problem at all. One thing I'm quite disturbed about is how some parents would let this extened to family outings. I went to see bad boys 2, and i was surprised to see so many families with young kids around. They were having a good time at seeing body parts exploding, naked women, drug dealers snorting cocaine, and my god. It just.....disturbed me. Another thing is when i went to see charlies angels 2. I think me and my friends were the oldest ones there, cause the only crowd i saw were 12 year olds making out, chasing each other around the cinema only to 'accidentally land' on top of each other, girls in tight, low cut denims, it just freaked me out that their parents would allow this.
Sure it's the trend of the day, but like I've said before, the parents and the kids are practically PARADING their bodies around for all to see.

I have to finish here, cause i am in a hurry to see a movie (Kill Bill will be awesome!), and hopefull i can finish it later once you guys have replied.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #64 on: October 15, 2003, 05:29:12 PM »
I'm saying that swearing is just a set of words, and hence is exempt from being classified as "indecent behavior". One can have morals yet still swear- I don't see swearing as being included in any sort of morals at all. It's outside the parameters of morals, so I don't think we should even be discussing that.
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2003, 05:41:10 PM »
I don't think I could disagree with you more (see sig )

As you might have noticed, at the start of this thread, I had the "it's only a word thing" in my head.  But since then my veiw has changed.

"I'm saying that swearing is just a set of words, and hence is exempt from being classified as "indecent behavior". "

You could go with that "it's a set of words" thing, sure.  But you also said that it's only offensive if you interpret it to be offensive, otherwise it's just another word.  The way I see it, is that society has taken the word to be offensive, therefore categorizing it under "indecent behavior"

"I don't see swearing as being included in any sort of morals at all."

Why not?  Like I said, because society has taken these words to be "vulgar" "rude" and "indecent" saying them could go against your morals.  It's simple.

Everything has to do with the connotation (is that the right word?) of the word.  an "ass" is really a donkey, but if somebody calls you an 'ass' on the street, will people say "oh, he just called that guy a donkey!"?

Swearing is just a set of words, but society has given them an extreme negative meaning, making them different from this set of words: "matches, potato, carrot, broom, computer, lolly-pop."

Swears=mean.  
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Offline ThePerm

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2003, 05:47:18 PM »
Fuzz!
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #67 on: October 15, 2003, 05:49:06 PM »
Sure...and make ME the wrong one...
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #68 on: October 15, 2003, 05:52:52 PM »
Boooooring...Everyone is just saying the same thing over and over again...My job here is done...

*leaves, tripping on the way out*
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2003, 05:54:04 PM »
It's my BELIEF that people should realise words have no power except the power you grant them, but I certainly don't consider you immoral if you don't- it's just a different viewpoint. I don't think people should exclude words from their vocabular under the pretense that they're "immoral".
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: the end of humanity
« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2003, 06:06:33 PM »
"Boooooring...Everyone is just saying the same thing over and over again...My job here is done..."

I agree, too bad I contributed too it.

"It's my BELIEF that people should realise words have no power except the power you grant them, but I certainly don't consider you immoral if you don't- it's just a different viewpoint. I don't think people should exclude words from their vocabular under the pretense that they're "immoral"."

When you use the words "belief" "viewpoint" "THINK" () and "consider" I am more inclined to agree with you.

Keep in mind that I usually jump into arguments after reading half the things people wrote.  Actually, you did a good job stating that it was your opinion last post.

*gives mouse_clicker a cookie*
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Offline The Omen

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2003, 06:15:27 PM »
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Sure, it would be ideal if everyone realized as such, but that doesn't change the fact the the only reason YOU don't want the word f*** being said on network television is because YOU find it offensive.


I don't find it offensive at all, to tell you the truth. I curse like a sailor.   I'm just worried more about young kids than anything else.  

Hostile creation-The breakdfast club is my all time favorite movie. I recently saw it on tv , and it was hilarious what they were coming up with.  When Bender screams 'F*** YOU!' at the principal, it said 'Kick you!!!'  So funny in a stupid way.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2003, 06:20:07 PM »
I agree that young kids shouldn't be learning what words like f*** MEAN at such a young age, but by itself it's just a word.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2003, 06:29:21 PM »
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
F*** is just a word, no different from any other entry in the extensive English language, and words have no meaning except those taken on by the listener.


Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
It's just a word- what's wrong with a word?


Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
A word is merely a collection of sounds intended to register a specific response- block that response and you'll lose your negative opinion of the word.


Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Like I said, I'm mindful of other people's views and wouldn't call them a racial slur, but that doesn't mean I think the word is "bad".


Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
WORDS are WORDS, people. What those words mean depends on the person but the fact remains that words can NEVER hurt you if you don't let them.


Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I'm saying that swearing is just a set of words, and hence is exempt from being classified as "indecent behavior". One can have morals yet still swear- I don't see swearing as being included in any sort of morals at all. It's outside the parameters of morals, so I don't think we should even be discussing that.


Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I agree that young kids shouldn't be learning what words like f*** MEAN at such a young age, but by itself it's just a word.


Stop saying the same things!

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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:the end of humanity
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2003, 06:31:26 PM »
Well, when nobody is acknowledging what I'm saying and spouting the same thing back at ME, our discussion can't progress, can it?
"You know you're being too serious when Mouse tells you to lighten up... ^_^"<BR>-Bill