Topic: the end of humanity

[mouse_clicker]

The thing is, if profanity on tv DOES bother you, just don't watch it! No one's forcing you to, so you really shoudln't be complaining at all. And like I said, I doubt you'll be seeing any network exercising their new right for a looooooooong time.

nolimit: To the best of my knowledge, profanity is not banned in public. I don't even know how they'd enforce such a law. I've heard swearing in public so many times my ears should be bleeding, but I've never seen arrested or fined.

[Bill Aurion]

"like i said language is the way we communicate. without it, we would just be hairless monkeys."

Heh, personally I think those that swear all the time act like monkeys, but whatever...

"Teaching kids profanity at a young age (which will never happen) doesn't mean that they will be better off."

As I said, I have seen many cases of this.  Of course, not every child watches R movies or listens to rap music.  This is where the Domino effect comes in.  One kid starts using words around other kids, and then they think it's ok...I've seen this first-hand too, mainly at my sister's middleschool.  You should really walk down the halls of a lower school and just listen to what the kids around you talk about...It's pretty disturbing...

(edit: Swearing is protected by the First Amendment)

[Shift Key]

Man, Termin8 steals my thunder again!!! Ah well.

The f-word has its own time and place. Not on television. I can understand some late movies not being bleeped, I've got no problems with that.
I have heard c**p on the Simpsons a few times (all by Homer if my memory is correct), and it is these times he is in hysterics. One of my favourite quotes in the Simpsons is "Sweet Merciful c**p!" It's not offensive at all, its just Homer emphasising his feelings, and it doesn't stand out. Not that it makes it any better.

A quote by Izaak Walton:

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The person that loses their conscience has nothing left worth keeping.

Someone saying swearing is fine, regardless of circumstance, needs to switch their brain back on. This act does not change my view that society is changing, it is just making fewers things unacceptable. I am not anti-censorship, but the laws do need better definition. I am not the one who should be making them, I'd rather bitch about what is wrong with them.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I can remember my mum telling me she thinks people swear because of a lack of vocabulary, and I actually agree with her. It's sad to see all these rappers belting out fowl language, because it is these people that influence the youth of the world.

Ian: I agree with art not being censored, but then you'll get musicians saying that their work is art too, which is absolutely absurd. Those people shouldn't need to swear anyway. Bring back MC Hammer! Hammertime!

Grey:

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I think that swearing is a perfectly acceptable and smarter thing to do than to forbid yourself from using a good portion of our language

What? How do a few cuss words make up a good portion of our language? There's a whole dictionary of words to use, why limit yourself to just them?
I'll admit, I swear from time to time, but there is a time for it. America's Army is fine. Public television isn't.

As for a line to be drawn, it will only ever be a line in the sand.

EDIT: Rethinking.

[Ms.Pikmin]

I also agree with nolimit.  Part of the problem with swearing on television is that it sometimes creeps into shows where you wouldn't expect it.  There has to something to watch that doesn't resort to profanity.  At this point I watch very little prime time tv with my kids.  Profanity and sexual content show up everywhere.  Not too long ago you could watch shows that started at 8:00 and they would be pretty clean.  The 9 and 10 o'clock shows were the ones that were for adults.  Now it seems like it's everywhere.  

The regulation regarding the f-word is just silly.  Saying the intent wasn't offensive is just dumb.  How would these same people react if their 6 year old came home from school and said they had had a "f**king great day"?  I doubt they would say it was fine because of the child's intent.

[Ian Sane]

Some of you are comparing swearing on TV to swearing in real life and there is a big difference.  In real life it's considered rude to swear in public and I think most people, regardless of how comfortable they are with swearing, are a little uncomfortable when someone they don't know is swearing at them whether it be as an insult ("Out of my way, f*ckhead!") or just regular speech ("So did you see the f*cking game last night?").  So swearing in public is generally considered a bad thing.

However with TV it's a little different because it's not real life.  Usually on TV or in a movie a character that swears the whole time is usually potrayed as a rude person which is an accurate representation of real life.  Often if the character isn't potrayed as rude you'll see them swearing with friends (which is pretty normal) or when they are really angry.  Several times in films when someone is swearing in public they usually are creating a scene and the people around them are offended.  All of that is okay because it's pretty similar to real life and it still doesn't make it seem like swearing in public is acceptable.  If all the characters were swearing in public and it was potrayed as an acceptable practise then that's completely different because that's not realistic and says it's okay to swear in public.  That is the movie or tv equivalent of swearing in public.

It's much like the difference between having a character kill a soldier in war and having them go through the streets randomly killing people and being potrayed as a good person for doing so.

[The Omen]

I have no problem with cursing, in fact, i have a dirty vocabulary, and i understand the difference between saying 'you're a fat f***', and saying 'awww f*** 'when i get sniped in Goldeneye.  So i agree with Ninja in that respect.  But kids who are watching T.V. dont know what the difference is.  And to blame parents, which i often do, by the way, is inaffective because a lot of families are single parent families.  They're out working, and come home , not knowing what their kid watched or didn't watch.  Some work 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet.

 Society continues to go downhill, and this is just a cherry on top of this disgraceful trend of the last 30 years.  And please, dont give me that ratings B.S.  We all know they don't work.  Especially if the parent isn't home to enforce it.  Then theres the v-chip, which any kid with half a brain can get around.  Even i used to figure out my Moms code for Pay-per-view back in the day.

  I am not against swearing at all, but in this instance, what good does it do? Make it more realistic?  Would, or should, a kid know whether or not cursing is realistic anyway?

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However with TV it's a little different because it's not real life. Usually on TV or in a movie a character that swears the whole time is usually potrayed as a rude person which is an accurate representation of real life. Often if the character isn't potrayed as rude you'll see them swearing with friends (which is pretty normal) or when they are really angry. Several times in films when someone is swearing in public they usually are creating a scene and the people around them are offended. All of that is okay because it's pretty similar to real life and it still doesn't make it seem like swearing in public is acceptable.

When is it portrayed as rude?  I find most of the time, its done just in conversation.  And kids dont care if it's acceptable or not.  You think they're saying, oh, these people/actors are offended, so i wont say that?

[Bill Aurion]

Ian - Though it's not "real life," many are affected by what they see, especially young children.  If they see someone on tv using profanity, they are very likely to use it in public...

[ThePerm]

Fuzz!
 

[mouse_clicker]

Let's make another distinction here- it's not the weord f*** that's wrong, it's how society views it. Society changes, despite all the kicking and screaming we do to keep it the way it is. It used to be that you couldn't even show a toilet on network television, or have a husband and wife sleep in the same bed. We laugh at that now, looking back upon it, but it's not completely gone yet. We still have words, phrases, etc that are considered taboo for television. In maybe 30 or 40 years' time, we'll be telling our grandkids that you actually couldn't say f*** or sh** on television! And our grandchildren will laugh at how smothering society was back then. Bottom line is, WORDS aren't what's bad, that's just the way society INTERPRETS them. Once we realize that a word is a word, we'll have no problem about f*** being said on network television. Like ThePerm pointed out, we have all sorts of alternate words for the same meaning. Dang/darn means damn, crap means sh**, frick means f***, etc, yet I know of very few people who consider THOSE words offensive. If you're going to oppose the use of a particular, make sure it's the MEANING of the word and not the word itself. I see enough hypocrites without having them thrust upon me.

[ThePerm]

Fuzz!

[Bill Aurion]

Learning it before you even reach high school is completely unacceptable in my book.  Sure, kids will learn it eventually, but guess where they hear it from "eventually"?  From other kids of course!  I just don't see how avoiding the issue by saying "Oh they will learn it eventually" makes it any less worse...Words like f*** don't belong in the English vocabulary because they add nothing of any value to a conversation.  In what circumstance would the word "f***" ever be needed?  Sure you can say, "Ah f***, it's such a f***ing great day, isn't it f***er?," but would want to?  Why would you?

Yes, the meaning of a word is carved by our society.  If the word "shampoo" meant something derogatory, then that would be taboo.  But it's not a good comparison in this case, because we were brought up to know that "shampoo" is a clean(heh, no pun intended) word...The whole point of language is that each word means something, and in this case "f***" is something bad.  I really don't care to read arguments that "f***" is "just a word" when the whole point of the word not accepted in society is the word's meaning...

And I just can't see how limiting profanity is "smothering"...I guess it is to those who use it to fill half their vocabulary...

[ThePerm]

Fuzz!

[KnowsNothing]

"Learning it before you even reach high school is completely unacceptable in my book."

Sure, it's unacceptable, but it's almost imposible not too.  I hear little 3rd graders swearing at me all the time.  In fact, sometimes it's the little kids that swear more!

I remember one time, I was at some park and these kids were skate boarding, and one little kid was swearin' left and right, and the high schoolers over in the corner were dumbfounded at how fowl the kid really was.

[The Omen]

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Let's make another distinction here- it's not the weord f*** that's wrong, it's how society views it.

Okay.  And why does society view it negatively?  Because of the context its used in!  


I am really starting to think theres just a demographic difference in this thread. When you're young you just want everything to be free and available, when you're older, you start realising the problems with a 'everything goes' society.  I was the same way.  

[mouse_clicker]

Bill: It's just a word- what's wrong with a word? Sure, I may not like my kid saying it around all people since some people do find it offensive, but I'm not going to tell them it's a "bad" word. My father's best friend has a child no older than 4 or 5 whowould put sailors to shame, and he's not the only one of his kind I've seen. Times are changing- you either change with them or get left behind.  

[Koopa Troopa]

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We still have words, phrases, etc that are considered taboo for television. In maybe 30 or 40 years' time, we'll be telling our grandkids that you actually couldn't say f*** or sh** on television!

And what then, forty years after that? Which vulgarities will we have justified by then? Under age Sex? Drugs? Pornography in daytime television? When do we stop undermining the morality that has made our nation great?

[Bill Aurion]

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing<brSure, it's unacceptable, but it's almost imposible not too.  I hear little 3rd graders swearing at me all the time.  In fact, sometimes it's the little kids that swear more!

This is the problem I am talking about...Just think...Where are these kids learning these words? Hmmmmmmm?  From what they see on TV and what music they listen to...

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
It's just a word- what's wrong with a word?

Do you like being called a "f***er"?  If not, then you obviously have something in your head telling you that it's a "bad word."  99% of the time the word is used in a derogatory/demeaning sense, so I see no reason for it to be used...  

[manunited4eva22]

Wow, some of you guys really would hate me in person.  I mean, I can be nice and all, but I have a nice little poddy mouth.  I mean honestly, if you are shallow enough to come off and go on a pouty escapade about 5 words I use invariably, I really don't need to waste my time talking to you.  Do I think cursing in songs is going to make a difference, no because anyone who thinks adults don't curse or it is just immature really need to look around.  I mean the only reason it offends you is that you are trained to take it in it's harshest form, and most likely that influence came from your parents.  If you haven't heard your parents curse more than a few times then either your parents are just extremely controlled or you aren't listening.

I mean honestly, if you can stand listening to someone verbally assault you without cursing, but you are going to get up in arms about the f word, well what the (you know the word).  If you want to go ballistic about the context it is used, I can just about twist every word with the right inflection to sound scary as hell.  Really though, god forbid they curse on TV, we wouldn't want to give parents another reason to blame someone else would we?

[nolimit19]

well most local laws forbid public cussing. you are disturbing the peace. you can get fined for cussing in most public places. it probably doesnt happen much because most people have the decency to not do it. if someone complains though, you could get fined. i mena you can cuss in your little private convo, but you cant just start cussing out loud and push it on everyone else. and if i go and start cussing at someone, is it their fault...absolutely not, but thats the reason being used here for people hearing cussing and being offended..."you shouldnt even be watching tv"...what kind of thinking is going on there.....close to none. and again its not about cussing as much as it is cussing on PUBLIC TV! no one else seems to have picked that up yet, or maybe everyone is avoiding it...i dunno. the point is, the pubic things are supposed to be family friendly...thats why we have zoning for things like strip clubs and what not. the same goes for tv...i mean anything goes on cable and thats fine, but public tv? the last thing america needs is more monkeys walking around. we already have a bunch of hippos.....and that is an entirely different issue. people say "who cares if people are obese" well we end up paying for it in the end...cussing can lead to disrespecting people and attitude problems, and that is a big problem in the us. if everyone just got their ass kicked once in a while everything would be ok, but you have all these smart asses that think its ok to say whatever whenever they want. cussing in a public audience is bad form, and if you dont agree with that, then the title of this thread holds true even more.

....obviously everyone in hte younger gen has bad mouths because of the damn rap music....and sure older people cuss too, in fact a lot of people cuss a lot of the time....isnt it amazing that so many people still consider it bad? NO, IT ISNT AMAZING....BECAUSE ITS LOGICAL! everyone knows that there is a time a place for these things...just a lowering of standards by the extreme left...their next thing will be full birth abortions and fighting for the right to preform human sacrafice on tv. because "everyone needs to be able to do whatever they want, and lets sacrafice all forms of logic to acomidate that." typical liberal thought process....and although i fight it, i just come to expect it, i am not suprised by anything any more. the liberals are also trying to abolish marrige as we know it in america...at this rate, america will not be anything in 100 years. its just a complete moral fall out. without any structure, the country will be in chaos...everyone will be obese, abort kids, and the kids they do have will have respect for nothing because they are bad ass gangsta rapper wannabes. all i know is that i am getting a cain when i reach about 50 so i can hit all the undiciplined kids on the head. and when there dumb liberal parents come to talk to me about it, i will hit them too.

[KnowsNothing]

"This is the problem I am talking about...Just think...Where are these kids learning these words? Hmmmmmmm? From what they see on TV and what music they listen to..."

I just wanted to share my little story with you all.

I was backing you up, that's all.  I guess.

[mouse_clicker]

No, I don't have a problem with someone calling me a f***er, but that's for a number of reasons, primarily that I don't care what other people think about me. Second, that if you call me a "f***er", you're just bringing yourself down to my level. If you said I was unoriginal, didn't know what I was talking about, and had a superiority complex, I'd take that more to heart than someone calling me an @$$hole. "F***er" is just a word, and as such it only has bad implication to those who interpret it negatively. *I* can recognize the fact that words have no power of their own, so someone can call me all the names I want, I won't care. Sure, maybe it's mean, but so is calling you a poophead, yet I'm sure you'd be much less angered than if I called you a sh**head.

[nolimit19]

ok words have no power on their own, but words are never just on their own.....there is always something about words that causes something...if words have to power, why do tella marketers call people to sell things? if they have no power, why do cops interogate people? how come people spread rumors?? o an by the way....words have no power....thats why kids come home and kill themselves after being teased at school....or they go and shoot kids at their school....you know what i see it now....its obvious to me that words obviously have no power. thats why they call it peace talks instead of peace wars....actions dont always acomplish things....words are the only way to properly solve certain problems. and its this attitude that has gotten america to its state.....lets just not talk about anything. lets abolish this message board because words have no power...we are obviously wasting our time. we arent commuincating....no power...got it...i'll make sure to make a note of that.  

[mouse_clicker]

Not related, but I find your complete lack of periods really annoying. Just a thing of mine.

Anyway, that's a nice speech and all, but it does nothing to prove any point of your whatsoever. The only power words have is the power you LET them have. If you refuse to take the word f*** as offensive, you'll find you have no problem with anyone saying it. That's all I'm saying. You will only be mad when someone calls you a f***er if you LET yourself get mad. It's as simple as that. A word is merely a collection of sounds intended to register a specific response- block that response and you'll lose your negative opinion of the word.  

[ThePerm]

Fuzz!
 

[nolimit19]

lol obviously they are stupid, and havent suffered enourmas teasing from their peers. listen...put any one person here in a controled environment where people cuss at you all day long and make you feel like crap. no matter who you are, you will eventually break.....because in the end, people do care what others think, and words do affect people....and to try and say that neither is true is really really stupid. like seriously beyond stupid and boardering retardation. if you didnt care what others thought....o my god...its just such an absurd statement. go back to school and learn about consumerism.