Author Topic: Editorial: Desperation Mode? (Read 9863 times)

Jonnyboy117 · « **on:** October 04, 2003, 09:23:10 AM »

This thread is for discussion of the editorial, "Desperation Mode?" Please feel free to leave your comments and questions about the article and to discuss it with others.

NWR_Lindy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2003, 10:23:24 AM »

Great editorial Jonny. I agree, the $99 price point is a great move by Nintendo. People are bound to take a chance on Gamecube when it's the same price as GameBoy Advance SP, and it's important that Nintendo hooks them now to get them enthusiastic for the next system.

Anybody that compares the Gamecube to Dreamcast should be smacked. It's not even close. Gamecube has arguably some of the best games in their respective genres ever (Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Ikaruga, Eternal Darkness, Viewtiful Joe) and it has cool peripherals like the Wavebird and GameBoy Player. I'd classify it as a great-but-underexposed system, definitely in the Top 10 of all consoles ever released.

silks

nolimit19 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2003, 01:42:46 PM »

well i hope to god that you are correct, but the fact that its posted a lost at all makes me feel some what shaky about nintendo future.

nemo_83 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2003, 03:27:31 PM »

good editorial. man it took me forever to get the pages to load.

I hope people don't view it as a desperate act. It is an act of neccessity. This is how you take the market by the horns. They could have done this months ago, they should have. But now they have software to go with the price cut. I just wish they would cut some prices on more games. Hopefully people won't look at this as the gamecube must be bad cause its so cheap. As cheap as the GBSP. If the Cube is so cheap now, why not try to make it more portable. They have ceased production of Cube. Maybe the redesign is coming and they want to get rid of as much of the old modle stock as posible.

The question is, is this too little too late? It is just one thing that NIntendo needs to do to take the market. I myself question what the GBA-GC connecting is worth other than to force me to buy more hardware so I can enjoy the one game I anticipated most for this year (hopefully the delay will do a lot for the game) FFCC. We all know online is not very profitable this year. But it is far more affordable to a person like myself than LAN or 4 GBAs, link cables, and finding friends that want to enjoy a long game with me. I still see the advertising, though improved, still out of touch. Like an old man trying to sell some kids an idea. Of course I'm not going to praise MS for thier advertising. I find MS's tactics of black listing Nintendo as kiddy appauling. Sony makes me laugh with their commercials though and they have a neat slogin. Which brings me to Nintendo's slogin. Who are you? is not that wonderful of a slogin.

There is to much to say that has already been said so I'm stopping now. Hopefully though people will see there is no single one solution for Nintendo's problems because there is no single one problem.

I won't deny that this price cut could be the turning point of this war. I think back to Street Fighter 2 and Donkey Kong on the SNES. Ah those were the days. Back when games were so much more innocent. When having violence in a game had a point, when Doom was crack and A Link to the Past never got old. Back when Mario Bros. games still existed and they were like side scrolling versions of Mario Kart on foot with the racing to the end of many different stages using multiple paths.

Djunknown · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2003, 09:30:10 PM »

Its a nice read, and is a good gleam of hope. Unfortunatley not everyone shares your opinion.

Another interesting editorial I came across at Nintendojo's site (Yep, 'those' people) was called 'Misfirings of Miyamoto.' which contrasts Mett's editorial of hope with despair and anger. I would try and put up the link but it would go bust for some reason. I urge you to read it as well, as to get both sides of the tale.

Here are a few passages to whet (or piss off) your appetite:

"While Nintendo may be running around saying that they are globally number two, what they aren’t saying is that they are getting their assess handed to them in the North American market. That is, until George Harrison of NOA came out (more than likely out of the contempt for all of the ill press and bad numbers coming at him) and recently admitted as much in an IGN interview..."

"I think this slash and burn strategy is the result of several key mistakes by Nintendo (including their exclusion of the sports market) and, more specifically, Shigeru Miyamoto himself.
Conversely; Microsoft, a supposed first timer and underdog in this generation of consoles kicked Nintendo in their pompous ass in North America because they floated a full, viable sports line up of their own to initially get the sports push on the system..."

"What's more, Nintendo’s slash and burn policy on the way out of this generation is turning everyone off. Nintendo isn’t subsidizing retailers for their price drops. They aren’t offering to work with retailers to sell the stale *&^% that’s been cluttering up their walls..."

"But I’m curious, what is the root of the problem? Well the most obvious answer is that Nintendo is completely out of touch. By Nintendo I mean the producer who’s had his non-violent / family first hands all over every Nintendo game in this generation: Shigeru Miyamoto..."

The one thing that both editorials have in common is just that:They're just editorials, not really meant to be the 'one truth'. We're all entitled to our opinions, its the beauty of democracy.

As mentioned, I thank Mr. Metts for giving his readers a ray of sunshine. It'd be cool if these two could duke it out somehow, like a debate or something, but it appears bad blood will dominate a 'friendly disscussion (They've been taking potshots at PGC for a reason I can't fathom, but that's another story, see the thread 'PGC getting dissed?' in general chat for details). Can't have your cake and eat it too right?

PIAC · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2003, 10:10:20 PM »

it was nice to see an article that posts facts and then their source next to them, haven't seen that for a long while.

i read about 3 or 4 lines of that nintendojo rubbish, it made my brain sad.

dafunkk12 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2003, 07:29:12 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
They have ceased production of Cube.

Production was stopped because there was too much unsold stock building up. Obviously, that may not be the case any longer.

Michael8983 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2003, 08:55:11 PM »

The difference between the PGC and Nintendojo article is the former is based mostly on documented factual information while the latter is just crap.
All the Nintendojo article does is replace the retired Yamauchi with Miyamoto as the scapegoat for ALL of Nintendo's problems. Suddenly, it's MIYAMOTO who is keeping Nintendo offline and out of touch with modern gamers when people used to put all that blame squarely on Yamauchi. At least blaming everything on Yamauchi made sense since he was the President of Nintendo. While I'm sure Miyamoto does have some degree of power in the company, there's little to no reason to believe he's responsible for any of the supposably wrong decisions Nintendo has made even if he does agree with those decisions. The article is just a pathetic rant that blows Nintendo's problems way out of proportion, fails to give it credit for anything it's done right (while taking the exact opposite approach with MS, blowing its success way out of proportion and not acknowledging its MANY problems), and mostly just consists of blatant speculation with little if any "evidence" supporting it.
It's irresponsible journalism at its worst and amazingly its use of terms like "ignorant-assed" and "sh*theads" are the least of the reasons!!!!

godwheel · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2003, 05:10:53 AM »

After taking countless marketing and advertising classes I've learned one thing: just because the price of a product is less, does NOT mean the product is inferior. On the contrary, when people see products that are pretty equal, the product with the lowest price is usually considered " a good deal." For example, APEX DVD players have sold handsomely in the market.

Jonnyboy117 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2003, 07:55:11 AM »

Thanks for the nice feedback so far. One of my goals was to back up my statements with factual info that you could check yourself.

It is true that people overestimate Miyamoto's influence in the company. He is in charge of EAD, only one of Nintendo's internal development teams. And he is on the board of directors, along with a dozen other people. Miyamoto is just assumed to be in power because he is very visible. In reality, execs like Iwata and Kamiya (President of NOA) have far more influence over the company. Saying that Miyamoto controls Nintendo is like saying that Denis Dyack controls Nintendo. They both are just very outspoken and head up very good development teams.

Djunknown · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2003, 08:03:20 PM »

Quote
Thanks for the nice feedback so far. One of my goals was to back up my statements with factual info that you could check yourself.

That's why Mr.Metts, you get the nod for good, proffessional journalism.

As of this writing, Nintendo has CONFIRMED the Zelda Compiliation consisting of Zelda I, Zelda II, Orcarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and a demo of The Wind Waker when you purchase a Gamecube. More info can be found at http://cube.ign.com/articles/453/453356p1.html?fromint=1

That should push some 'Cubes and entice anyone who hasn't bought a 'Cube and Wind Waker to do so. Now that's intelligent!!

Koopa Troopa · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2003, 09:46:16 PM »

::applauds::

Quote
Of course I'm not going to praise MS for thier advertising. I find MS's tactics of black listing Nintendo as kiddy appauling.

I agree. I own an XBox, and actually enjoyed it, for a while. But I read an interview with some XBox Rep(Peter Moore, I think) from X03 that made me so angry I can't look at my XBox without spitting. The quote was...

Quote
I think Nintendo has a very important place in videogames, it always announces things like introducing videogames to five million five-year-olds every year. Which is fine - Sony and ourselves will fight for them when they're 12 and we'll take it from there thank you very much.

I really hate this "I'll smile while I slap you in the face" kind of mud slinging. And the whole interview is a Nintendo bash fest. How little dignity, and integrity they must have.

I apologize for going a bit off topic there. I really enjoyed the editorial, I foudn it to be well written and researched.

PIAC · « **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2003, 10:26:10 PM »

BLARGH, i read that too, i'm not sure who the guy was, but it was the one that used to work for Sega America but now works for Xbawx, who decided 12 was the magic number that you suddenly 'grow up' anyway, most 12 year olds i know are peonic little asses that make me wish they had some form of shock collar. but i digress, i have some monkey island 4 to play

Koopa Troopa · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2003, 10:41:55 PM »

Quote
BLARGH, i read that too, i'm not sure who the guy was, but it was the one that used to work for Sega America but now works for Xbawx

You'd think he'd be a little more professional. I'm glad he isn't with Sega anymore.

Quote
, who decided 12 was the magic number that you suddenly 'grow up' anyway, most 12 year olds i know are peonic little asses that make me wish they had some form of shock collar.

Indeed, LoL.

Quote
but i digress, i have some monkey island 4 to play

Gotta love the Monkey

joeamis · « **Reply #14 on:** October 09, 2003, 09:33:03 AM »

excellent editorial, best i've read of any editorial in some time. i agree the timing of nintendo's cut is perfect. gamers will pick up the system at the start of it (already), and more casual g's and parents will learn & know of the cut just in time for the crucial holiday season.

Quote
Originally posted by: Djunknown

Here are a few passages to whet (or piss off) your appetite:

"I think this slash and burn strategy is the result of several key mistakes by Nintendo (including their exclusion of the sports market) and, more specifically, Shigeru Miyamoto himself.
Conversely; Microsoft, a supposed first timer and underdog in this generation of consoles kicked Nintendo in their pompous ass in North America because they floated a full, viable sports line up of their own to initially get the sports push on the system..."

"What's more, Nintendo’s slash and burn policy on the way out of this generation is turning everyone off. Nintendo isn’t subsidizing retailers for their price drops. They aren’t offering to work with retailers to sell the stale *&^% that’s been cluttering up their walls..."

"But I’m curious, what is the root of the problem? Well the most obvious answer is that Nintendo is completely out of touch. By Nintendo I mean the producer who’s had his non-violent / family first hands all over every Nintendo game in this generation: Shigeru Miyamoto..."

in response to the Nintendojo article passages posted:
ok first of all nintendo excludes first party sports because they have EA Sports providing nearly all their games and are at the top of their genre. saying microsoft's internal sportsline being the reason for their success is blatant ignorance, the games are subpar in comparison to EA, Sega, and others. the games did not sell much at all in comparison either. nintendo has made sports games, modernly, kobe's courtside and 1080', but these games originated at a time when their genres were not well supported on nintendo, (early n64), so with the full support of EA and others now they need not compete for genres already successfully covered and prosperous. allowing them to excel at what they do best.

saying nintendo is slashing and burning policy because they're closing up this generation is THE WORST JOURNALISM of the year. the price drop is a direct subsidizidation to retailers to get the cubes off shelves. the gamecube is not on the way out, it is growing stronger. claiming nintendo being completely out of touch is utter stupidity, they're doing remarkable given that three consoles are all in the marketplace continuouly for the first time in history, and the stiff competition from each. then they claim by nintendo, they mean singularly, shigeru miyamato. he doesn't even suggest that its primarily him or namely him, he suggests it is only him... (retarded)
they then claim its because of his nonviolent/family first hands, suggesting the only problem for nintendo is because they don't have enough violence in their games. and no, shigeru miyamato has not advised every internal nintendo game to come out for gamecube. i cannot fathom the motive behind those claims and whether it's plain unintelligence or blind ignorance of the game industry and it's history.

DeadlyCards · « **Reply #15 on:** October 09, 2003, 03:48:05 PM »

Although I appreciated a good read, I have to say that there are some things I disagree with. First and foremost, I own only a Nintendo Gamecube, and have enjoyed many of the games that Nintendo has put out. However, because the article is about Nintendo on the business front, I have to say that I've been disappointed. Yes, stepping up marketing is a great decision to sell more cubes, as well as the price cut, but price cuts haven't helped the cube that much in the past, and the marketing should have been done before last Christmas. I don't feel like the Nintendo Gamecube is considered a serious contender anymore, with the low price and extremely low profile the company seems to have given itself.

And another thing, while many of the references that you sourced were spot on, the recent announcement of a net loss is a VERY bad thing for Nintendo, considering how a very lucrative Gameboy market could not push up the profits from the gamecube itself shows a very weak Gamecube lineup. Nintendo will survive, of course, with its own software the best-selling of the system, it is in their interest to do so, however the Gamecube will be the first to drop off the shelf of the next gen systems, as the low prices and ultimately low sales will in all likelyhood do. Nintendo's gamecube sales have stagnated recently, with jumps at the release of Zelda, price drops, and holidays. However, few would disagree when I say that Nintendo's numbers are not consistently so high, and the numbers from after the GC price drop are only temporary.

While in no way in need of dropping out of the console race, Nintendo needs to concentrate its resources on providing the excellent gameplay it has always relied on, and marketing these games well to a wide audience. Peripherals and low marketing do not work after disappointing peripheral gameplay and low hype for the best titles (Silicon Knights' Eternal Darkness is a past example; Viewtiful Joe should be well marketed otherwise it will not catch the eye of the mainstream).

Keep in mind, that was just an opinion

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2003, 03:52:18 PM »

Rumor has it that Sony will drop the PS2 to 99 next month to compete with the GC...Though for some reason, I just can't see that happening...

MarioLinkSamus · « **Reply #17 on:** October 09, 2003, 07:47:21 PM »

Quote
Eighty dollars is a lot of money, and consumers with no strong prejudice for any of the systems (read: casual gamers and parents) are going to look hard at GameCube this holiday season, especially if they already own a PS2.

I beg to differ. Parents, yes - casual gamers, no. The casual gamer has a natural bias to the system they own. They worked hard in order to buy their machine. It has become part of their life. Even to the casual gamer, buying another system would be like abandoning their first console.

Most of the casual gamers own a PS2. In my opinion, if these casual gamers were to decide to buy a 2nd console, they will more often than not choose the Xbox over the GameCube. I have no facts to back this up, consider it a hunch. BUT, ever since this recent price drop on the GameCube, I honestly don't know what will happen. This may sound ludicrous, but I believe the future of the GameCube and its success lies heavily on the hands of Mario Kart Double Dash!!.

- MarioLinkSamus

PIAC · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2003, 03:05:21 AM »

i demand to differ, given no-one is going to give me permission todo otherwise

what your describing isn't so much casual gamers, its an evolved form of a casual gamer, the newly emerged part time fanboy, they pick a console (up untill now largely been ps2) and then devote atleast a small portion of their time to supporting it, either by telling anyone who will listen how cool it is, registering to forums and posting 2-3 messages about how cool it is and so forth, true casual gamers are just that, they game ocasionally with no real passion or enthusiasm for it (like we have by being here and discussing it etc) they will walk upto a shelf at their local EB or what ever, survey the consoles on offer and the games that are supplied for all the consoles, way up cost (unless that isn't an issue) and then pick what ever console seems right at the time, i know ive seen it happen.
especially if the casual gamer is a child-pre teen shopping with his or her parent(s) then cost is definatly a factor, in which the gamecube will win, parents will see ps2 at $300, xbawx at $300 then cube at $199 (australian prices) and think hey cube is cheeper, saving money allways is a good thing to parents (i should know mum got talked into getting Holy Magic Century over Ocarina of Time (cause the retard at the store was out of stock) for me for christmas, i ended up getting both, lucky

)

the ps2 dropping price (to what ever price) could pose some of a threat to Nintendo's domination of this christmas, but the power of Mario Kart Double Dash!! should pull them through victorious, most people who want a ps2 by now have one, and if they don't then this christmas would have probably seen them getting one anyway.

see, i can put togeather semi-coherant posts aswell as my usual mind numbing drivel *goes back to the aussie thread wearing chicken pants*

Jonnyboy117 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2003, 09:50:59 AM »

"...considering how a very lucrative Gameboy market could not push up the profits from the gamecube itself shows a very weak Gamecube lineup."

You're right in that the loss is bad news for Nintendo. However, it's only a quarterly loss, and it's pretty obvious that this current quarter will be a completely different story. You are also correct about the significance of GBA not holding up the company. However, I would point out that there were no major GBA releases in the last three months, either in Japan or America. Pokemon's momentum has stayed pretty healthy, and I suppose Pinball is a decently big game and perhaps had poor sales, but there were no marquee titles released during that time. Super Mario Advance 4 is about to tear up the charts.

mjbd · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2003, 01:26:20 PM »

This was a great editorial, one of the best I have read in some time. The price cut was a great move on nintendo's part, and should help ensure a very successful holiday season. Now PS2 owners may be looking at Cube as a viable second console.

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2003, 01:42:32 PM »

I personaly loved how you backed up almost everything with sources. Not becuase I don't trust you or anything, but it made it sound much more professional (not that it didn't anyway....geez, I can't say anything without it having a dark side. I complementing you, okay?)

Nicely done.

Michael8983 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2003, 05:24:10 PM »

"The casual gamer has a natural bias to the system they own. They worked hard in order to buy their machine. It has become part of their life. Even to the casual gamer, buying another system would be like abandoning their first console."

I think you've got it all wrong. The casual gamers are the ones who DON'T have any real loyalty to any console. They don't give a damn about the "console war" or any single company's success. That's why they're called CASUAL gamers. They only have a casual interest in gaming and don't take it very seriously. The console they buy isn't their precious baby that they cherish. It's just another piece of hardware next to their TV and they don't care anymore about who made it than they do who made the TV.

PIAC · « **Reply #23 on:** October 11, 2003, 12:13:20 AM »

^ yeah thats what i was trying to say

joeamis · « **Reply #24 on:** October 11, 2003, 08:38:44 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyCards
Yes, stepping up marketing is a great decision to sell more cubes, as well as the price cut, but price cuts haven't helped the cube that much in the past, and the marketing should have been done before last Christmas. I don't feel like the Nintendo Gamecube is considered a serious contender anymore, with the low price and extremely low profile the company seems to have given itself.

And another thing, while many of the references that you sourced were spot on, the recent announcement of a net loss is a VERY bad thing for Nintendo, considering how a very lucrative Gameboy market could not push up the profits from the gamecube itself shows a very weak Gamecube lineup. Nintendo will survive, of course, with its own software the best-selling of the system, it is in their interest to do so, however the Gamecube will be the first to drop off the shelf of the next gen systems, as the low prices and ultimately low sales will in all likelyhood do. Nintendo's gamecube sales have stagnated recently, with jumps at the release of Zelda, price drops, and holidays. However, few would disagree when I say that Nintendo's numbers are not consistently so high, and the numbers from after the GC price drop are only temporary.

While in no way in need of dropping out of the console race, Nintendo needs to concentrate its resources on providing the excellent gameplay it has always relied on, and marketing these games well to a wide audience. Peripherals and low marketing do not work after disappointing peripheral gameplay and low hype for the best titles (Silicon Knights' Eternal Darkness is a past example; Viewtiful Joe should be well marketed otherwise it will not catch the eye of the mainstream).
Keep in mind, that was just an opinion

i disagree, price cuts in the past can not be compared to this one as causilaty for this one performing the same. $200->$150 to $150->$100 is a big difference for one. you're talking a customer paying 150 or 100, that's alot in low income buyers' pockets, when they add a game they're spending another 50, and noone buys a console without a game.
they sold the original nintendo for 100 around it's 2nd year, same with super nes at 100 it's 3rd year, and n64 was like what 3 yrs into when that reached 100... so how is gamecube suddenly at such a "low" price? they look at past price cuts for their first systems as evidence.
you have to keep in mind that gamecube sales jumped at zelda, so ofcourse future months after would be lower in percentage. same will happen now with the price cut until chistmas comes ofcourse. christmas this year for the cube will be huge. gamecube will not come off shelves first because of low price&low sales, only low sales will do that. (compare past consoles)
by peripheral in your context i take it you mean gba to gcube link and e-reader primarily...
they continue with the peripheral gameplay because they promised the support early on, even including it in boxes and manuals for games, gba and cube. to stop enabling most games supporting this would be a very bad decision. they did this before, stop mading games for the lightgun, superscope, powerpad, and left sour tastes in the mouths of their gamers/investers.
********************************************************************
the Playstation 2 is more likely to drop in price than expected in my opinion. they're currently selling it with the network adapter and atv offroad 2 for $200, take away the network adapter from that $40 and the game $40, and they're basically selling ps2 at 120 for that deal. if the ps2 goes to $100, this will be a blow to nintendo but EVEN MORE importantly, a huge blow to Microsoft... what will Microsoft do if ps2 is 100 in november for the holidays? I think xbox would atleast drop to 150, and drain even more money out of their bank which would have investors outraged. I don't know if i would want xbox to get close to zilch for sales and have nintendo get less too (if ps2 and gc are 100), or if i'd prefer nintendo to get more and ps2 the same and xbox a bit less. (if gc only at 100).

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Author Topic: Editorial: Desperation Mode? (Read 9863 times)