Author Topic: The big hint that we all missed. (Read 4589 times)

bmfrosty · « **on:** October 01, 2003, 12:25:55 AM »

Nintendo is releasing an N64 stuffed into a controller with little cartridges in china..... could this evolve into the next gameboy? A system with a pretty big existing 3D library that just needs a little port work.....

-bmfrosty

KDR_11k · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2003, 11:13:39 AM »

Naaah, it needs a screen and power supply.

nemo_83 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:12:17 PM »

those games only work with that one card. or was it only with that one system. that kind of thing alone would kill it anywhere in the world. Lets say this together. D....I.....S....K...S. If NIntendo doesn't go disk they go bye bye in the portable market. I say minidisk that are playabel on Cube/N5 but with N64 hardware plus a few polys and ram so there is no argument on which portable looks better.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2003, 04:53:56 PM »

I actually think bmfrosty has a point. I think it shows that it would be fairly easy for Nintendo to make the next Game Boy have N64 graphics or better. The only thing the iQue is missing is a screen, speakers, and some batteries. I don't think it would be that tough to do.

I really don't think disks are the best solution. This is mainly because it would suck up battery life and the hardware wouldn't be as durable. Also I really don't care to deal with possible load times either. Besides from comments that Iwata has made I doubt they will use disks. They will probably find an alternative that gives them the pros of cartridges and of disks without the cons.

Another thing if the next Game Boy does have N64 graphics or better I can't wait to hear all the bitching due to all the N64 ports we will get. Personally though I would be perfectly happy getting to play Mario 64, Zelda 64, and Majora's Mask on the next Game Boy.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2003, 05:21:43 PM »

I will be very sad if Ninty follows Sony's path of making super graphics chips in their handheld...

*hugs his 2d sprite games*

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2003, 07:04:11 PM »

Gee, I wonder what the cord coming out of the controller is for, if that's all the console is?

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2003, 07:24:50 PM »

Maybe to hook it up to the TV and give it power?

I too am a little nervous about hand helds going 3D. I love the setup Nintendo has going right now in which one system is dedicated to 2D games and the other is dedicated to 3D games. That's a big reason why I think the idea is dumb in the first place. If you are going to spend around $300 (what a lot of people are speculating the PSP will cost) on a hand held that has 3D graphics but they aren't as good as the latest console why don't you just buy the latest console? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Unfortunately though Nintendo really doesn't have any choice but to go 3D if they want to compete with the PSP and they really need to compete too. I would really hate to see Sony do what the PlayStation did to the N64 in the hand held market. Of course like I said early I wouldn't mind getting to play portable Zelda 64 and Majora's Mask either though.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2003, 10:48:42 PM »

Just because 3d is possible doesn't mean you have to use it. N could make a separate GPU that gets powered off if the game doesn't want to use 3D. That way you'd have a reason to still make 2d games...

Discs eat too much power. The PSP has an estimated battery life of 3-6 hours! I don't consider it portable if I have to have an outlet nearby all the time. Heck, I bet it's cheaper to just equip a GC with battery and LCD if you don't care for battery life!

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2003, 05:37:53 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Just because 3d is possible doesn't mean you have to use it. N could make a separate GPU that gets powered off if the game doesn't want to use 3D. That way you'd have a reason to still make 2d games...

The problem though is stupid main stream gamers who know that graphics are the most important thing about a game. We could end up in a similar situation that we have with consoles in that anything that isn't 3D is considered crap. This would end up forcing the developers to make 3D games.

ThePerm · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2003, 10:14:40 AM »

all i can say about the ida of 2d being rubbed out ofr portables ugh.

Rich · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2003, 10:35:43 AM »

Man, I would love it if Nintendo stuck with 2d gaming in the Game boy but if Sony is going to have 3d Nintendo should too.

The thing about disks is that they do take up a lot of power and incur load times but also, being disk based would take out the possibility of backwords compatibility, something the Game boy has always had, and one of the reasons, i believe, the game boy has been so successful.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2003, 08:12:21 PM »

The GBA isn't a dedicated 2D system. It's possible to do 3D graphics on it, and many games and demos prove that. The problem is that the GBA isn't a very powerful system, meaning that 2D graphics are the best way of making a good looking game. What's really great about the GBA though is that IMHO, it's about the most fantastic system EVER to make a 2D game on. The hardware design is just a masterpiece.

A wise man once told me that the GBA was likely to be the last console EVER in which it would be worthwhile to program in assembly. When the GBA is rendered obsolete, the torch will likely be passed on to cel phones, but we are still losing a piece of our history with the GBA. Whatever happens, I want you all to remember the GBA with fondness and love in your hearts.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2003, 09:34:46 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
A wise man once told me that the GBA was likely to be the last console EVER in which it would be worthwhile to program in assembly.

Sorry but I have no idea what that means. Could you explain?

PIAC · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2003, 11:06:29 PM »

assembly would be a language, and er its... good.. for... *waits for grey ninja to post something more understandable*

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2003, 03:53:10 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: PIAC
assembly would be a language, and er its... good.. for... *waits for grey ninja to post something more understandable*

Good idea

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2003, 04:33:30 PM »

Basically, systems after the GBA are going to be a LOT more complicated...

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2003, 04:58:10 PM »

How does not using discs kill nintendo? Discs on consoles and handholds are a big stretch. Handhelds have very very very limited power, there is a reason palms use flash memory, not cds.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2003, 05:37:53 PM »

When people say that Nintendo has to use disks for the Next Game Boy I think it's because they don't understand the whole problem with the N64 not using disks. In their minds they probably think using cartridges for the N64 was a bad decision because they aren't "cool" like disks. The reality though is that using cartridges was a bad thing for the N64 because they are more expensive to make and don't have the size to hold all the FMVs Square likes to use. Therefore all lot of third party developers went to Sony and that's what caused Nintendo to lose their crown.

In other words using a non-disk media for the Next GB won't be a problem as long as it's cheap to make and has a lot of space. Since Game Boys have so far been known for being very durable I don't want to drop the Next Game Boy and realize it's ruined because the disk drive got f'ed up in the fall. I also won't like the idea of having to recharge the batteries every few hours and having to have a secondary media for saving my games will be quite the turn off too. The biggest thing though is I don't want to be playing a game and all of a sudden see "Now Loading" on the screen. Loading times are bad enough on consoles but the idea of it happening on a handheld is about 10 times worse.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2003, 06:16:32 PM »

lol... sorry. I completely forgot that I was talking to non-programmers.

Assembly is an OLD programming language. It's used very little in this day and age, although I would be willing to bet that a few very small parts of Doom 3 and Half Life 2 are programmed in Assembly. The reason for this is that Assembly is as close to programming in binary as is practical. Assembly allows a person complete control over the hardware you are coding for. It's as low level as you can get. The reason it's not used a lot anymore is that coding in it is a nightmare. The code is unreadable, it will take you FOREVER to code anything, coding something really big, such as a game is almost unthinkable, and it's just not nice to work with. The upside is that you have complete control over your code, and it's FAST, and makes a very small executable.

But think of it this way. To a programmer, coding in assembly is much like driving a race car. You have no CD Player, you have no anti-lock brakes, no automatic transmission, no air conditioning, no leg room, and no gas mileage. But is it ever fun driving that car anyways.

The problem is that both the race car (assembly), and the production cars (high level languages), have evolved at a fast rate, and now the regular car drives at 2000MPH, and the race car drives at 3000MPH. Which is the better choice? The GBA takes us back to a day when Race cars drove at 200MPH, and the regular cars drove at 100MPH. In this case, there's a clear gain to be seen in using a race car to get from point A to point B if you really need to get there fast.

Does that make sense?

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2003, 06:50:19 PM »

Ha! When you said assembly I was thinking of an assembly line where the GBAs would be made.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2003, 09:50:08 AM »

Hehe, I think on the C64 some people actually coded straight to binary...

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2003, 11:26:07 AM »

I still know the binary for ascii, oh well. 7 digits will never leave me. sigh.

the_zombie_luke · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2003, 08:02:42 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
The GBA isn't a dedicated 2D system. It's possible to do 3D graphics on it, and many games and demos prove that. The problem is that the GBA isn't a very powerful system, meaning that 2D graphics are the best way of making a good looking game. What's really great about the GBA though is that IMHO, it's about the most fantastic system EVER to make a 2D game on. The hardware design is just a masterpiece.

A wise man once told me that the GBA was likely to be the last console EVER in which it would be worthwhile to program in assembly. When the GBA is rendered obsolete, the torch will likely be passed on to cel phones, but we are still losing a piece of our history with the GBA. Whatever happens, I want you all to remember the GBA with fondness and love in your hearts.

I agree! The SNES is like a Super NES, only more Super! I really like how Golden Sun looks. It's like 16 bit meets 32 bit. I just wish Nintendo would make more new software for the GBA rather than porting SNES games. I want to see a new 2D Zelda on GBA.

bmfrosty · « **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2003, 04:28:19 AM »

I've gotta run with the opinion I stated in an earlier thread. Keep the architecture as close to the GBA as possible. Bigger screen, more ram, faster ARM processor (or multi-speed, steps up and down based on game requirements), and add a 3d chip. Doesn't have to be fast. The N64 Chip on a new manufacturing process would work, and make ports from n64 easier. A solution based on something more recent from ATI (gecko?) would work too, and could just run at a slow clockspeed to make it jive with low power requirements for a handheld, and also possible to power down completely and also multispeed. GBA2 should be running at a res that makes it very compatible with TVs. 320x240 would be good except for keeping in with overscan. So lets call it 304x224. From there adjust the face buttons to be compatible with the n64, and possibly include both analog and digital pads for all of those 3d ports (mario 64 anyone?). As far as the media question goes, allow both. PSP will no doubt suck in developers left and right with the promise of cheap and easy to mass-manufacture media if the GBA2 doesn't have a comparable ablility. Include plenty of ram to cache the optical drive as well.

-bmfrosty (rambling)

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Author Topic: The big hint that we all missed. (Read 4589 times)