Author Topic: Star Trek  (Read 16918 times)

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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Star Trek
« on: May 23, 2019, 12:58:37 PM »
I've been a little hesitant to start a Star Trek thread given how some of the recent discussions of it in other recent threads have gone, but the release of the first teaser for the new Star Trek: Picard series made me do it.



https://youtu.be/f3om4V_-Y0Q


The series will take place post-Nemesis and will involve a story related to the destruction of Romulus, which was the event that led to the time travel that created the timeline the recent JJ Abrams Star Trek movies took place in. After a long stretch of prequels, Star Trek will be moving forward though not to the degree season 3 of Discovery seems to be.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 03:05:28 PM »
Not sure how to feel about Picard, since we still don't know what kind of series it will be from that teaser.

Speaking of prequels, though, this came across my Youtube feed this morning and looks quite impressive. It's a Star Trek Enterprise fan film of all things. I'm kind of shocked that Paramount hasn't taken this down. Looks fairly legit.

Unfortunately, the video quality seems to be kind of...****.


There's always Axanar, too, the fan film apparently so good and so professional that Paramount immediately moved to kill it and any future fan films.

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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 04:07:17 PM »
Or the film that was trying to make money off Paramount IP instead of just being a fan film.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 04:48:40 PM »
Or the film that was trying to make money off Paramount IP instead of just being a fan film.

Well, that's certainly the lawyers' perspective. I would point out, though, that if that's what Paramount actually thought, they'd have shut down the kickstarter when the creators put it up. After all, they were soliciting money for a property they didn't own and the kickstarter was very public.

I find it telling that I didn't see word about Paramount trying to shut it down until Prelude to Axanar released and the general reception was that it "was better than the trash that Paramount was officially releasing under the Star Trek name (the Abrams movies and Discovery)." And then Paramount went out to release a series of demands on fan films to prevent ones from being made again that could compete with the quality level of an official release.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 05:16:17 PM »
Your timelines are a bit mixed up.

Also, Alex Peters is the one that repeatedly went to Paramount and asked them to set fan film guidelines.  Then cried when he didn't like them.

If Mr. Peters is such an  amazing, quality professional, I assume I can view some of his other, original and creative works, along with their awards and accolades somewhere?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 05:21:22 PM »
Your timelines are a bit mixed up.

Perhaps. Honestly, I only know the Axanar story from bits and pieces. It wasn't something I really followed, though apparently they're still making the damn thing...somehow. I mainly know of it from the outcry over the revised fan guidelines that happened on Youtube a few years back, guidelines that seem to make it impossible to tell a decent story (given the IIRC 10-15 minute running time limit).

Anyway, like I said I was mainly just surprised to see an Enterprise fan film pop up in my feed this morning, as one of the few fans of Enterprise.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 05:26:45 PM »
Forever ago, when I was a freshman in college, I read an essay about how authorities in some city discouraged vandalism. They knew certain young people were spending days spray painting huge murals but waited until the individuals finished the project before having someone paint over it. The young people weren’t charged or anything. Their “punishment” was having their art which they spent days on unceremoniously covered in plain white paint.

Point being, I can see Paramount or X company deterring unauthorized use of its IP by waiting until the fan film(s) is finished (or nearly finished) before dropping the cease and desist hammer. It may be shitty, but it’s kind of a good strategy. Occupy the creators of the fan film for years so they’re busy and can’t regroup to try again then kill it late in the game which may deter other people from trying in the future.

Then again, maybe these companies should pull a (specific) Sega. Christian Whitehead’s engine used for a fan game and porting old Sonic games to mobile was so good Sega was just like, “Fine, make us a real one.” And now, we have Sonic Mania.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 05:29:42 PM »
Before you go making snide attacks regarding a subject, it might be useful to read up a bit on it first.

It seems, really, regardless of the guidelines in writing , Paramount's stance is about the same.  They've allowed (as in, not stopped, not that they've officially given their blessing) many other works to go forward that violate many of the guidelines they put in place.

I don't think the quality of Peters' work had anything to do with how all of that went down.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 06:23:11 PM »
He looks so old... :(



Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 07:32:18 PM »
He looks so old... :(

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Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2019, 09:20:21 PM »
Is Star Trek: Picard supposed to be a 10-episode limited series? Or is this intended to be the first season should it be popular enough?

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2019, 10:59:26 PM »
I don't think it's intentionally limited, this is going to be the first season.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2019, 01:57:16 AM »
Picard is going to at best be embarrassing mess. It's made by the same yahoos as STD.

Word has it STD cost double of GoT to make at $10 million per episode. Their fault for not spending any money on story writers and good show runners that could keep things under control.

Merchandisers have fled so CBS/BR are shouldering the most of the cost of both shows. Netflix is out with Amazon paying well below what CBS wanted and almost blinking themselves which would have meant no international distributor or way to spread the cost.

Is Star Trek: Picard supposed to be a 10-episode limited series? Or is this intended to be the first season should it be popular enough?

See above. Picard is pretty much a Hail Mary. While under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect it to last more than one season, if it is anything like STD it will get a second season for being to big to fail. 10 Episodes also makes it more likely to happen as it is a much smaller commitment.

More I hear about Bragaa and co more respect I have for them. They produced some of the greatest Trek and the worse, you can't produce that many episodes without some real stinkers. But they always kept it on the tracks avoiding complete continuous train wreaks. On budget, on schedule, not pissing on the fans or blaming them for their bad work.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2019, 02:18:25 AM »
Berman and Braga were terrible and anything good in Star Trek in that era came despite them. Don't let your hatred for the current state of Star Trek delude you into thinking they were good for the franchise. 
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2019, 02:54:45 AM »
When you produce and are involved in that many episodes the law of averages will catch up to you. 600+ bloody episodes, take that in.

My respect is mostly seemingly simple things like keeping on budget, the feel etc under control and shielding the show from the higher ups by being producers. When you watched one of their Treks it felt Trek. It also meant if things go wrong it was on them and I never ever heard them blaming the fans for bad work. Obviously they are part of a team but they took the hits like a champ.

Story wise they did need to vet their writers/stories more and you know use the premise. I definitely can't say they did JJ levels of damage to Trek. Sure they have Threshold but they never produced continuous seasons worth of Threshold level quality "Stuff". It was an inevitable slow decline as that fuel tank was a vacuum by then.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2019, 06:59:59 AM »
From the stories about how Berman treated people, especially women, I don't care how great of a job he did on Star Trek, the man deserves zero respect.
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2019, 01:25:15 PM »
Berman and Braga were terrible and anything good in Star Trek in that era came despite them. Don't let your hatred for the current state of Star Trek delude you into thinking they were good for the franchise. 

Those two were, indirectly, the reason for DS9 being what it is.

After TNG and Voyager, DS9 almost made a deliberate attempt to go as far away from that as possible. It shows.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2019, 03:18:04 PM »
Berman and Braga were terrible and anything good in Star Trek in that era came despite them. Don't let your hatred for the current state of Star Trek delude you into thinking they were good for the franchise.

OK, look...Berman & Braga weren't great for the franchise once Voyager and Enterprise came around, but from everything I understand having watching SFDebris' TNG videos, they and Michael Pillar pretty much saved TNG from Gene Roddenberry's continual attempts to ruin it. I don't know about the personal aspect regarding women, but this is the first time I've ever heard of such an issue.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2019, 03:36:43 PM »
Berman and Braga were terrible and anything good in Star Trek in that era came despite them. Don't let your hatred for the current state of Star Trek delude you into thinking they were good for the franchise. 

Those two were, indirectly, the reason for DS9 being what it is.

After TNG and Voyager, DS9 almost made a deliberate attempt to go as far away from that as possible. It shows.

They greenlit the show, but DS9 was what it was because of Ira Behr and Ron Moore. I guess you could give Berman credit for not meddling in it too much (though he definitely did some) if you were being really generous.


Berman and Braga were terrible and anything good in Star Trek in that era came despite them. Don't let your hatred for the current state of Star Trek delude you into thinking they were good for the franchise.

OK, look...Berman & Braga weren't great for the franchise once Voyager and Enterprise came around, but from everything I understand having watching SFDebris' TNG videos, they and Michael Pillar pretty much saved TNG from Gene Roddenberry's continual attempts to ruin it. I don't know about the personal aspect regarding women, but this is the first time I've ever heard of such an issue.

Yes, early on he was one of the people who helped contain Roddenberry's bad ideas, but once the franchise was in his hands he was the one holding it back.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2019, 06:06:37 PM »
Berman and Braga were terrible and anything good in Star Trek in that era came despite them. Don't let your hatred for the current state of Star Trek delude you into thinking they were good for the franchise.

OK, look...Berman & Braga weren't great for the franchise once Voyager and Enterprise came around, but from everything I understand having watching SFDebris' TNG videos, they and Michael Pillar pretty much saved TNG from Gene Roddenberry's continual attempts to ruin it. I don't know about the personal aspect regarding women, but this is the first time I've ever heard of such an issue.

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/525q85/terry_farrells_departure_has_anybody_else_heard/

Do some googling and you'll find many others who had issues with him.  Wil Wheaton and Garrett Wang are two who have been pretty public about the way he treated cast and crew.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 06:48:23 PM by UncleBob »
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2019, 06:04:00 PM »
Michael Chabon Named Showrunner of Star Trek: Picard

https://deadline.com/2019/06/michael-chabon-showrunner-star-trek-picard-cbs-all-access-series-1202638580/

He'd been on the staff for a long time, but until now there had been no public announcement of a showrunner. He's won a Pulitzer, a Hugo, and a Nebula, as well as work in films like Spider-Man 2, so this seems like it could be pretty good.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2019, 06:49:29 PM »
Red Letter Media released their long-awaited take-down of Star Trek Discovery Season 2.


I've said it before, but Star Trek Discovery clearly wasn't made for dedicated Trek fans like me, so I'm content not watching it. That being said, it's a lot of fun watching a pair of clearly very dedicated Star Trek fans continually tear it down in hilarious manner (and I don't get the impression that they're altogether nitpicking it).
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2019, 07:18:00 PM »
Discovery is a different kind of show, but I don't think it's accurate at all to say it's not for dedicated fans. Again, I'll compare it do Deep Space 9, which was very controversial at the time among Star Trek fans because of its differences from previous shows, but I've talked to plenty of die-hard Star Trek fans who are enjoying Discovery, especially in season 2.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2019, 02:49:34 AM »
You don't need to nitpick STD, it's that bad and dumb. STD has had 2 seasons of what is basically LOST level junk. It's really bad TV and the only show that actively insults the viewer for daring to watch it. It's different take alright, that take is bad. Stop trying to equate it to DS9 as that was inherently good at it's core from the start. STD wishes it was controversial, it would be a massive step up from abysmal.

STD doesn't and can't stand on it's own. Take out the Trek branding and ask yourself if you would still watch it. Do you feel in anyway you are obligated to watch?

Do you know how fucked up you sound saying that this "Star Trek" wasn't made for the Trek audience in mind? Why bother with the Trek name if you are not going to write Trek. Imagine if Peter Jackson response to excuse how bad the Hobbit turned out was "it wasn't made for LotR fans" or any other show with an established audience.

RLM have barely scratched the surface with just the script and they stopped because it's literally painful with Mike constantly trying to derail. They could rip it apart for days on end.

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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2019, 08:21:01 PM »
You don't need to nitpick STD, it's that bad and dumb. STD has had 2 seasons of what is basically LOST level junk. It's really bad TV and the only show that actively insults the viewer for daring to watch it. It's different take alright, that take is bad. Stop trying to equate it to DS9 as that was inherently good at it's core from the start. STD wishes it was controversial, it would be a massive step up from abysmal.

STD doesn't and can't stand on it's own. Take out the Trek branding and ask yourself if you would still watch it. Do you feel in anyway you are obligated to watch?

Do you know how fucked up you sound saying that this "Star Trek" wasn't made for the Trek audience in mind? Why bother with the Trek name if you are not going to write Trek. Imagine if Peter Jackson response to excuse how bad the Hobbit turned out was "it wasn't made for LotR fans" or any other show with an established audience.

RLM have barely scratched the surface with just the script and they stopped because it's literally painful with Mike constantly trying to derail. They could rip it apart for days on end.

YUM YUM.

Star Trek 2011 isn't made for the Trek audience for a reason. Some people are new Trekkies. When it came out I had only recently gotten into TOS. I had watched TNG DS9 and Voyager, but they rarely played TOS on TV between the late 80s and 2011 at least in the US. My only exposure to TOS was the movies and the cartoon which had aired on Nickelodeon in the 80s. It was only a recent luxury to be able to stream TOS. Before you had to get it on VHS and DVD to watch it.

The logic between making a new Star Trek show with the original characters must have been similar to making Batman 1989. There had been a TV show before and some movies based on the shows, but not an original movie produced in a contemporary era. Not exactly the same thing, but similar.  I can't hate on new Star Trek. It is a different thing. It's a different breed made for it's era. It will be replaced in the future by another version. Similar to different James Bonds. Roger Moore is my favorite era. Some eras will be better than others.
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