Author Topic: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker  (Read 46867 times)

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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2019, 03:23:01 PM »
Yawn.  Palpatine was a perfect villain for the first 6 movies.  Seeing his rise to power was interesting, and seeing him be the main villain so that Darth Vader could have a redemption arc is interesting, but that story is done.  Bringing him back would be a mistake as big as bringing Darth Maul back.  I don't care if the stories in the cartoon were interesting, it hurts the movie, and honestly what they did with him in Rebels sucked. 

I think it would be interesting to just let the relationship and conflict between Rey and Kylo play out with both being stuck in there positions of leadership and involvement.  The natural conclusion to this trilogy is a new understanding of the force which is neither light or dark.  But understanding that it involves personal responsibility and logic to wield the force neutrally.

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2019, 03:26:57 PM »
I kinda think that Palpatine is going to be more of a guiding force for Kylo and allow him to embrace the dark side more. Plus I think having him here in IX will tie in with the Original and prequel trilogies.  Also I am kinda thinking Snoke was the big bad for this trilogy but what if Snoke was just a shell or façade for Palpatine and now he is released into the world with Snokes death?   
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2019, 03:29:04 PM »
Apparently Palpatine is making some kind of appearance in Episode 9.

They better not try to make him suddenly the main villain.

He set him self up real good with that Darth Plagueis speech.

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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2019, 03:41:19 PM »
It's not even like Maul who was barely a character in episode 1 who got a ton of cool much needed development in TCW and Rebels and than got to be in THE best Lightsaber duel in the franchise.

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Palpatine is pretty much covered. There really isn't much that you can do with him that hasn't already been done. None of the attempts to bring him back in Legends were all that interesting either. He basically just fluffed around in clones of himself during that arc and got himself killed than too.

I just don't see what they could do with him that would be interesting enough to be worth bringing him back, and doing so imo hurts all 6 of the original Star Wars movies.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 03:43:19 PM by pokepal148 »
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2019, 03:53:22 PM »
Fans had justification for the "you're nobody" because there was a huge tease she was someone important in TFA. But like a lot of the things teased by JJ in TFA, they were promptly dropped off a cliff and fans were shamed for their hopes and theories on the matter. There was an expected audience payoff and it never happened. They could have gone with the "she's nobody" path, but not after Maz curiously asks about who the girl is and the scene cuts away before Han can explain. Not after she is being built up as somebody the viewers would care about. If it was just her flailing about looking for meaning, and then the revelation she was in fact nobody and had to forge her own path, fine, it would have been a fun -or at the very least interesting- path to follow.

I don't really blame JJ for that, its been clear in recent interviews that JJ had an overarching plan and Rian Johnson decided to blatantly ignore that plan and do his own thing. Now JJ not only has to finish what he started, but he has to clean up the divergence that Johnson did the the plan, which may have forced him to alter the plan (pray he doesn't alter the plan any further...heh).

Also, trailer was meh for me. I don't think Kylo should be redeemed, but feels like they are setting it up as such. And the title leaves a lot to be desired. Its not Attack of the Clones bad, but it is right after it on the poor title list.

Not so sure Kylo should get a redemption, and it feels like he is being setup for that.

Also hoping we don't get a revived Emperor, though it won't be absolutely doomed if it is a revived Emperor. In the previous film trailers there were lines by Skywalker that were not in the film itself, so I imagine there was a lot of misdirection displayed here.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2019, 03:56:04 PM »
I liked the Dark Empire 1/2/Empire's End stories (the EU comics involving the revived Emperor), but they would need a lot of extra nuance to pull that off. In them Luke thought the only way to defeat the clone Emperor was to learn from him and so willingly fell to the darkside, requiring Leia to pull him back. Could have played that angle with Ben choosing to join Snoke in order to learn how to beat him, but they can't do that with one movie left. Now, if the rumors of breaking it up into two films were true, there would be a lot more wiggle room to tease these things out.

Another great EU plot was the appearance of Exar-Kun, the sith lord who swayed one of Luke's students to the darkside.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2019, 04:23:24 PM »
Snoke = Darth Plagueis like everyone originally thought except that isn't the big reveal. "He could save others from death but not himself." The big reveal is Darth Plagueis actually can save himself from death, and he did after Palpatine killed him (the laugh in the trailer is a flashback to Palpatine killing Snoke), and he does after Kylo Ren kills him, but it isn't an instantaneous thing. He has to use the Force or midi-chlorians to "reassemble" himself. That would explain Snoke's scars and why he's so withered. Just a thought.

Offline Stratos

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2019, 04:45:43 PM »
I could get behind that, Adrock. Maybe give us a good callback to the Plagueis scene in RotS.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2019, 05:40:13 PM »
That would be interesting.  Then Plagueis is too powerful for the Dark and Light side to ignore and together they truly take him out.  Or Plagueis decides that the only apprentice worth keeping is Palpatine and brings him back.  However, I really don't care for that direction.  I like the idea that the dead stay dead, but I guess Star Wars has never really focused on that, and since the Force Ghosts can now do cool things in the real world, I guess resurrecting ones one body isn't that far fetched.  Maybe Plagueis foolishly revives Darth Vader because he killed the Emperor, not knowing that he is good now.  Then the prophecy could be truly fulfilled.


Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2019, 06:32:08 PM »
I don’t think Snoke should be able bring anyone back from the dead, just himself. If Lucasfilm/J.J. Abrams want to connect the trilogies, this could work. I vaguely remember reading that a dropped plot thread (or at least severely downplayed one) was Palpatine or Plagueis created Anakin Skywalker using midi-chlorians. Palpatine lied to Anakin about having the power to save the ones he loved, but that was the goal. Through sheer knowledge of the Force, Plagueis learned to create life, resurrect himself, and was working toward resurrecting others. He refused to teach Palpatine any of this so Palpatine killed his master and continued the work himself. To bring the trilogies full circle, a Skywalker, a line created by Plagueis himself, destroys him once and for all.

Not sure I ever brought this up before, I still like the idea that midi-chlorians represent the failure of the Jedi. Midi-chlorians are some hack way of explaining the Force in fiction and real life. The mystery and mysticism of the Force was always the most intriguing thing about it. Thousands of years of the Jedi trying to explain and control the Force led to their eventual downfall. It goes back to Luke’s first lesson to Rey: And that is the lesson. That force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies is vanity. Basically, what I’m getting at is that midi-chlorians are at best an imprecise method of measuring connection to the Force. The Jedi, in their hubris, leaned into that false understanding and hinged their entire order on that understanding and it ultimately cost them everything. The Jedi were so vain with their “knowledge” of the Force they had no idea that a Sith (Plagueis) was so far ahead of them and Palpatine was plotting right under their noses.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2019, 01:20:42 AM »
What if Luke comes back as a zombie? and starts biting people?

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2019, 02:13:25 AM »
What if Luke comes back as a zombie? and starts biting people?

That's in a alternate realities where Disney gives no fucks or are better businesspeople.
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Offline Steefosaurus

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2019, 03:19:33 AM »
I'll just chime in here for the sake of variety, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just a casual observer's take. Don't really care for Star Wars in general, haven't seen them all, and don't have super strong feelings on the series as a whole. But my favourites by FAR are Empire Strikes Back, and more recently Last Jedi for finally steering the franchise away from chosen-one-destiny stuff. Was really hoping they'd double down on that direction, but it looks like the squabbles of a single family bloodline are back with full Force.

Trailer looks decent, but also very tired as an outside observer. We're still having old characters do victory laps 3 movies later from the looks of it. At least so far I'm not seeing those corny old scene transitions JJ Abrams brought back for the 7th (?) movie, but who knows.

I'm happy for the fans that they get to speculate again about family intricacies and lineages, about recycled evil laughs, and that Lando is back and stuff. But this isn't convincing to a more casual fan like me who wants to like the series.
Last Jedi felt like it had teeth and understood many of the series' underpinning flaws, and wasn't afraid to claw at them. Yeah it wasn't perfect, but even its weird diversions (the casino tangent) were trying to make points the whole franchise seemed unwilling to face before. The end of Last Jedi felt like it was trying to break the whole 'everything is about the Skywalkers' mould right open, but now I'm not sure if they'll actually follow up on it.

I understand that Last Jedi to many felt like it bore an active grudge against Star Wars, but precisely that slightly self-concious nature is why it appealed to casuals like me. Granted they haven't showed much of the next one, but right now it seems mostly focused on the long-term fanbase (I would do the same if I was their marketing department btw).

Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2019, 08:05:20 AM »
But my favourites by FAR are Empire Strikes Back, and more recently Last Jedi for finally steering the franchise away from chosen-one-destiny stuff. Was really hoping they'd double down on that direction, but it looks like the squabbles of a single family bloodline are back with full Force.
Yeah, that was the impression I had. Star Wars itself isn’t about the Skywalker line. However, the numbered episodes are. The Last Jedi felt like it was trying to prepare fans and non-fans for the eventuality of Star Wars being more than the Skywalker Saga.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2019, 08:41:12 PM »
I don't think Rey is a Skywalker. Second I think the Rise of Skywalker refers to Luke.

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« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 08:45:45 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2019, 09:28:20 PM »
I saw Mission Impossible 3.

Not everything he does is mystery boxes. He is not Damon Lindelof. I know you really disliked his "mystery box" ted talk he did years ago, but pretty much everything he starts has been excellent. The problem is he has stepped away and done other things and his successors have ruined them.

The only criticism I could levy on him is that he mainly does nostalgic material. I think it's well put together material though. I think this will be a test, as he does get a chance to be on the finishing end of something in this case.

MI:3 had the Rabbit's foot a literal container we didn't know anything about besides being implied as expensive and dangerous. Most of the plot happens because reason. It's a very disjointed movie as it is a bunch of Alias scenes strung together with the minimum on connective tissue. Musgrave the traitor just comes out of nowhere.

JJ isn't just the most visible Mystery Box, it's the nonsense, lack of substance. What do you know about Hoffman's character compared to those in Fallout? Fallout has ideals, non-money goals, outside connections. MI:3 is just Hoffman chewing scenery with an organization that can arbitrary do stuff.

Does the hero's failure during the movie makes the difference to the story? Felicity dying makes no difference, Hunt is sad for a moment but that's it, she got put in the fridge. From that point on Hunt doesn't fail when he can influence the outcome.

Fallout the Cores is the goal, his point of failure that reveals his strength that those who know him value more highly than anything else especially the IMF secretary. He has repeated failure that tests his ideals. Being Ethan Hunt isn't easy and has serious down sides.

Hunt is still the head liner but in every other movie it's far more of a team effort where they play linchpin roles.

There is there how the movies are shot and presented. JJ is GO FAST shaking and pew pew lights. To distract you from the nonsense just long enough to have an initial good impression before the whole thing falls apart to a slightest thought.

JJ doesn't know how to lay a foundation, just look at the opening crawl to TFA. Anything that follows is destined to fail, never remembered fondly, Star Trek, Star Wars, Lost, Alias. Sure they made some immediate money which gets attributed to him but he always washes his hands right after. With ST/SW he got the Brand with a lot of thirsty fans. Thirsty enough that they would drink just about anything.

MI series is something of a Unicorn as Tom Cruise is the show runner, the guy who keeps it from flying apart. I helps that it severed from JJ outright taking only Simon Pegg and Hunt's wife.

There are people talking about watching Episode 9 out of obligation. That is fucked up.

I'll just chime in here for the sake of variety, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just a casual observer's take. Don't really care for Star Wars in general, haven't seen them all, and don't have super strong feelings on the series as a whole. But my favourites by FAR are Empire Strikes Back, and more recently Last Jedi for finally steering the franchise away from chosen-one-destiny stuff. Was really hoping they'd double down on that direction, but it looks like the squabbles of a single family bloodline are back with full Force.

Trailer looks decent, but also very tired as an outside observer. We're still having old characters do victory laps 3 movies later from the looks of it. At least so far I'm not seeing those corny old scene transitions JJ Abrams brought back for the 7th (?) movie, but who knows.

I'm happy for the fans that they get to speculate again about family intricacies and lineages, about recycled evil laughs, and that Lando is back and stuff. But this isn't convincing to a more casual fan like me who wants to like the series.
Last Jedi felt like it had teeth and understood many of the series' underpinning flaws, and wasn't afraid to claw at them. Yeah it wasn't perfect, but even its weird diversions (the casino tangent) were trying to make points the whole franchise seemed unwilling to face before. The end of Last Jedi felt like it was trying to break the whole 'everything is about the Skywalkers' mould right open, but now I'm not sure if they'll actually follow up on it.

I understand that Last Jedi to many felt like it bore an active grudge against Star Wars, but precisely that slightly self-concious nature is why it appealed to casuals like me. Granted they haven't showed much of the next one, but right now it seems mostly focused on the long-term fanbase (I would do the same if I was their marketing department btw).

Rian was just being a contrarian and troll. There is a reason why "Subverting expectations" has become degoritory and a punchline. Rian didn't understand anything, he looked up TV tropes and did the reverse of said trope. Making a terrible movie when people are expecting a good movie isn't subverting expectations.

An example of actual subverted expectations would be a standard fight with Luke and Vadar Vs Emperor, maybe Vadar getting mortally wounded half way as a reversal. Luke's Force/combat prowess didn't factor into the final victory other than not dying. The conflict was ultimately a mental one.

Another example again with Luke is his fight with Vadar in ESB. Expectations would have been a close fight, to see Lukes greatly improved skills to show up Yoda who is telling him he isn't ready. Instead Luke gets stomped, Vadar is toying with him the whole time. Neither was done without in movie reason or subversion for subversion sake.

I am not sure why you think the legacy characters are doing victory laps in the sequels. Every movie has gone out of it's way to destroy, marginalise every legacy character's achievements, meaning, characters assassinated.

The trailer is pure desperation.

I would pay real money on "Jumping the Tie Fighter" becoming the new Jumping the Shark as did Nuke the Fridge did.

Yeah, that was the impression I had. Star Wars itself isn’t about the Skywalker line. However, the numbered episodes are. The Last Jedi felt like it was trying to prepare fans and non-fans for the eventuality of Star Wars being more than the Skywalker Saga.

OT wasn't about the blood line or chosen one thing. It was never sold it as such and Luke wasn't a chosen one. It's a Prequel retcon.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2019, 10:05:54 PM »
Besides, Luke wasn't the chosen one it was Darth Vader.  He brought balance to the force by killing the Emperor.  He came back from the Dark Side, because there was still goodness in him.  The prophecy should have been fulfilled with that.  Perhaps this is trilogy is about the aftermath of the prophecy.  I hope it is the end of both the Jedi and Sith.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2019, 10:14:10 PM »
lots of content.

I didn't mind Nuke the Fridge because it was a callback to the original Back to the Future script. It was basically an elaborate in-joke.

Also, we don't know if Rey jumped the Tie Fighter. It cuts before we can see. She might have got rammed.

For all we know she turned and killed Rose Tika in a previous scene and this is Finn in a tiefighter they found in the battlefield getting just revenge.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 10:20:25 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2019, 12:07:28 AM »
Nuke the fridge is a BttF callback what??! Where did this come from?. Hiding in the fridge wasn't the issue, it was how it got thrown like cartoon that should have killed Indy that fucked it. If it just tipped over and slide into some stuff it would have been seen as something clever. What terrible execution in a movie full of terrible execution, from Spielberg of all people.

Talk about subverting expectations. Finn doesn't stand a chance. At this point if it is really dumb I would believe over something that would make sense unless it is mediocre nonsense. Also thanks for confirming Endor Holocaust, good job breaking RotJ even more.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2019, 01:38:09 AM »
In the original BTTF script there is no Delorean. The time machine was originally just a refrigerator. Some producers thought kids would jump into refrigerators mimicking the movie so they changed it to a car.  The end of BTTF was originally not Marty coming back via a bolt of lighting, he had to get in the time traveling refrigerator during a nuclear test and that would power his travel through time. It's probably why the scene where he talks about nukes in the classroom is still there.

Here's the storyboard with the Car.

The script went through a lot of revisions.

http://www.kristensheley.com/bttf/future.html
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 01:46:55 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2019, 04:12:25 AM »
JJ's best work is when he's attached but not involved - Westworld, Person of Interest, Fringe.

Also, i wish the title was Skywalker Ascendant. I'm picking up TYP's hatred of The X of Y titles.

Jeff Goldblum also fixed the trailer: https://twitter.com/jeffreygoldbIum/status/1117143269765517312

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2019, 04:16:47 AM »
I can't believe EA has a better title for their game then the real movie.  Actually Fallen Jedi would have been a good title for Episode 8. 

Offline Adrock

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2019, 06:07:03 AM »
Yeah, that was the impression I had. Star Wars itself isn’t about the Skywalker line. However, the numbered episodes are. The Last Jedi felt like it was trying to prepare fans and non-fans for the eventuality of Star Wars being more than the Skywalker Saga.
OT wasn't about the blood line or chosen one thing. It was never sold it as such and Luke wasn't a chosen one. It's a Prequel retcon.
I didn’t say it was. I didn’t even mention the chosen one stuff. The numbered episodes are very much about the Skywalker family line without even considering prophecies and whatnot. Skywalkers play a pivotal role in every saga film even when one isn’t the main character. And the verdict is out on that one since Rey may end up being a Skywalker (which I’m ambivalent about).

Offline lolmonade

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2019, 06:13:39 AM »
I'll just chime in here for the sake of variety, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just a casual observer's take. Don't really care for Star Wars in general, haven't seen them all, and don't have super strong feelings on the series as a whole. But my favourites by FAR are Empire Strikes Back, and more recently Last Jedi for finally steering the franchise away from chosen-one-destiny stuff. Was really hoping they'd double down on that direction, but it looks like the squabbles of a single family bloodline are back with full Force.

Trailer looks decent, but also very tired as an outside observer. We're still having old characters do victory laps 3 movies later from the looks of it. At least so far I'm not seeing those corny old scene transitions JJ Abrams brought back for the 7th (?) movie, but who knows.

I'm happy for the fans that they get to speculate again about family intricacies and lineages, about recycled evil laughs, and that Lando is back and stuff. But this isn't convincing to a more casual fan like me who wants to like the series.
Last Jedi felt like it had teeth and understood many of the series' underpinning flaws, and wasn't afraid to claw at them. Yeah it wasn't perfect, but even its weird diversions (the casino tangent) were trying to make points the whole franchise seemed unwilling to face before. The end of Last Jedi felt like it was trying to break the whole 'everything is about the Skywalkers' mould right open, but now I'm not sure if they'll actually follow up on it.

I understand that Last Jedi to many felt like it bore an active grudge against Star Wars, but precisely that slightly self-concious nature is why it appealed to casuals like me. Granted they haven't showed much of the next one, but right now it seems mostly focused on the long-term fanbase (I would do the same if I was their marketing department btw).

I loved star wars growing up.....and agree with everything you said.  If anything, I feel like the constant "look whose back for this one!" suffocates the new characters' ability to be front and center and develop.

The original Trilogy is Luke's story.  The prequels are mostly Anakin's Story.  This new trilogy appears to be turning into....Luke's story again, as told by funneling most of what happens as justification to bringing Luke into the fray.  I loved the whole line of "your parents were nobodies" to Rey - because 1) it freed her from having to have the shackles of a lineage in order to be important, and 2) it could have been a lie told by an unreliable narrator, and they can STILL end up an important people within the galaxy. 

I also think the stance that "this director is actively being a troll to screw with fans and JJ Abrams" is kind of crazy.  The inserting your own feelings on what a director's intentions are because they didn't take the story in a direction that you wanted in order to answer the questions you built up as important is crazy to me.

Like Steefo, I'm not trying to stir a pot and have kept relatively quiet in this thread that seems predominantly "Rian Johnston ruined Star Wars", but he elaborated on some points I feel are important to the alternative perspective, even if y'all are presumably getting what you want with ep. IX.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2019, 09:48:53 AM »
I didn’t say it was. I didn’t even mention the chosen one stuff. The numbered episodes are very much about the Skywalker family line without even considering prophecies and whatnot. Skywalkers play a pivotal role in every saga film even when one isn’t the main character. And the verdict is out on that one since Rey may end up being a Skywalker (which I’m ambivalent about).

ANH is definitely Luke's story, after that it opens up and Luke becomes less important the the world as a whole. His journey becomes more and more personal. Leia and Han are near/equal protagonist in ESB. By RotJ whether he won or lost the final confrontation the ultimate outcome for the galaxy would have been the same.

It is clearly the PT that had retcon this idea of OT being the Skywalker saga.

Wedge and Lando "Saved" there galaxy. In quote marks as it was a massive combine effort just like the first Death Star.

I also think the stance that "this director is actively being a troll to screw with fans and JJ Abrams" is kind of crazy.  The inserting your own feelings on what a director's intentions are because they didn't take the story in a direction that you wanted in order to answer the questions you built up as important is crazy to me.

Like Steefo, I'm not trying to stir a pot and have kept relatively quiet in this thread that seems predominantly "Rian Johnston ruined Star Wars", but he elaborated on some points I feel are important to the alternative perspective, even if y'all are presumably getting what you want with ep. IX.

Rian's stated goal was to be as divisive as possible. He fully intended to piss off half the fans which he exceeded beyond all expectations. It's not crazy, it's fact. If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.

As for JJ, yes and no. While Rian did throw everything JJ had under the bus with subversion JJ is also lying when he said there was a plan. Think about it, SW doesn't have a show runner, no one in charge of the bigger picture. It's all over the place.

JJ is just as guilty of destroying SW as Rian is just not via the same crimes. Then there is Kennedy who had either lost control, clueless or didn't care as long as ideology was satisfied. No one sane or cared would have released TLJ, absolutely no quality control.

As for the bits people liked about TLJ, it's incidental, the clock is right twice a day. Go watch a bad movie, a really bad movie. You will like something about it.

SW is already dead, past the event horizon. Episode 9 is 100% doomed. I can't think of any path it could take that isn't going to be a mockery of cinema. Look how the trailer has already lost you.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?