Author Topic: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!  (Read 100681 times)

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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #275 on: March 21, 2019, 05:46:34 PM »
Wait... me asking you your opinion regarding Disney buying an entertainment company in a topic about Disney buying an entertainment company is not relevant,  but multiple posts about how Disney ruined an IP as a result of that purchase is?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #276 on: March 21, 2019, 05:51:26 PM »


There's a hidden message in there somewhere that's relevant to the direction this thread has gone...
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #277 on: March 21, 2019, 05:51:52 PM »
The question is irrelevant.

After your gross replies why should I entertain one of your questions especially one of no relevance.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #278 on: March 21, 2019, 05:56:54 PM »
You are so offended by my "gross" reply that you see no reason to continue to entertain me...


...but how many replies have you made to me?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #279 on: March 21, 2019, 06:01:06 PM »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #280 on: March 21, 2019, 06:53:22 PM »
The topic is the mediocrity that is Disney and collateral damage that will be part of the merger. I offered a best case solution to save what made Fox, Fox. Fox is not just the IP, it's the people and the environment/culture they operate under.

I gave examples of cultural restrictions that IP face, how it's strength is turned into a weakness due to the mistaken idea that Brand is all that matters. Yet for some IP within circumstances I offered how a transformation can take place, why it can and why for some can't.

I explained why "Unlimited" entertainment options you offered as a salve wasn't quite so unlimited that makes the continued accretion of IP a problem via the process of emotional investment that can make walking away hard which you flippantly dismissed to the point even another poster had to call you out despite sharing your sentiment.

I followed with how your flippant disregard for emotionally investing is insulting and a bad way to do business that generates a lot of negativity by blaming the customer which you have mirrored by following the company line.

I presented to you the social contract that really underpins ownership an IP which is more a set of obligations the participants have with each other and where the ultimate responsibility lies. It is legally correct that the customer doesn't own the IP but that is not the ownership issue stems from.

That is why your question is irrelevant.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #281 on: March 21, 2019, 07:11:31 PM »
At the end of the day, I want Disney to prove me wrong. As much as I gripe about their growing monopoly and the dangerous repercussions thereof, I've loved that company since I was a little kid growing up in the 80s. I've seen it rise, and I've seen it fall. I've seen it take risks, and I've seen it follow Reggie's lead and only green-light safe bets.

My fear with modern Disney is that everything is becoming homogenized and formulaic. They don't take risks anymore. We just got a trailer for the new Toy Story that recycles the exact same goddamn plot they used for the last 3 Toy Story films. Every Marvel film looks like more or less the same movie now. Star Wars has looked like crap since Episode 7, and no...I haven't seen Rogue One. I actually keep waiting for that BluRay to hit the Disney Rewards site like Force Awakens did, and it never has.

Disney Animation seemed to be in a new Renaissance when Frozen hit, but now EVERY film follows Frozen's template with the twist villain and market-tested "subversion". Pixar's the least-relevant it's possibly ever been.

Meanwhile, Disney hasn't green-lit a SINGLE original new attraction at ANY of their parks (one not based on an existing IP) since Expedition Everest in 2006. Everything they build now is "safe"; lazy; and market-tested with certain ideologies in mind, just like the films they put out.

I just wish Disney was taking all these experiences, resources, and money they acquire and putting them into something fresh and new. I miss the 80s & 90s-era Eisner years, when he would figuratively blow things up just to see what would happen, and we got the biggest explosion of creativity in the company in a generation.

However, I see Disney do things like buy-up Fox and all I can think is "well, I guess we can look forward to all the Fox properties being shoe-horned into templates."  It's depressing.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #282 on: March 21, 2019, 07:13:17 PM »
Quote
The topic is the mediocrity that is Disney and collateral damage that will be part of the merger. I offered a best case solution to save what made Fox, Fox.

You are correct.  All this time, I have been so wrong!  Disney is absolute rubbish and is going to run FOX properties until they become soulless, mediocre husks of what they once were.



Oddly, that loops us back to the very first post in this thread.  The Simpsons really does predict the future.

Quote
emotional investment

Look, man.  We're never going to see eye to eye on this.  Entertainment isn't something I ever recommend getting "emotional investment" in.  Good or bad.

You have two options: Either entertainment is a business, in which case, you are mixing emotions and money, never a good thing - or - Entertainment is art, in which case you are *not* a customer and you do *not* get to tell artists how to express themselves.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #283 on: March 21, 2019, 07:35:08 PM »
I don't want to get involved in this exchange as I've enjoyed being on the outside looking in.

I did look up Episode 3 in Season 6 of The Simpsons because that was right in the middle of the show's golden years, and I was curious why the episode was marked red in the chart above. It was a clips show if anyone is wondering.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #284 on: March 21, 2019, 07:38:32 PM »
RE: broodwars

Pretty much my sentiment. Hope is not a strategy and the track record isn't good.

Quote
The topic is the mediocrity that is Disney and collateral damage that will be part of the merger. I offered a best case solution to save what made Fox, Fox.

You are correct.  All this time, I have been so wrong!  Disney is absolute rubbish and is going to run FOX properties until they become soulless, mediocre husks of what they once were.

Oddly, that loops us back to the very first post in this thread.  The Simpsons really does predict the future.

Quote
emotional investment

Look, man.  We're never going to see eye to eye on this.  Entertainment isn't something I ever recommend getting "emotional investment" in.  Good or bad.

You have two options: Either entertainment is a business, in which case, you are mixing emotions and money, never a good thing - or - Entertainment is art, in which case you are *not* a customer and you do *not* get to tell artists how to express themselves.
It's as the business requires emotional investment to stay viable. Not acknowledging this means you have abandon your customers. They are not mutually exclusive as you keep repeating. As I pointed out, they are co-dependant and it is more than money changing hands. Even the greatest artist of old needed patrons to ply their art with varying requests and demands from none to paint this exact thing.

Using the Simpsons is the lamest irrelevant example you could have given. It ignores the very different circumstances as to how and why it has reached where it is which is not what faces Disney and Fox at this time unless you are thinking of an accelerated timeline with a very high gamma which broodwars believes has already happened while I think it can be mitigated for incoming shows.

I don't want to get involved in this exchange as I've enjoyed being on the outside looking in.

I did look up Episode 3 in Season 6 of The Simpsons because that was right in the middle of the show's golden years, and I was curious why the episode was marked red in the chart above. It was a clips show if anyone is wondering.
Oh I think I remember that episode. Yeah it deserves all the hate.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #285 on: March 21, 2019, 07:39:55 PM »
>Star Wars has looked like crap since Episode 7

Really?

Sometimes, I feel like I've entered an alternate universe where the prequels don't exist.  Or were fundamentally different movies than the ones I saw.  Not that I'm saying 7&8 are amazing masterpieces, but they're, at the very least, entertaining.  Episode 1 is... ugh.  Between Jar Jar, kid actor with no talent, and politics and economics.... I just cannot find Episode 1 entertaining.  Even the Pod Race scene is so by-the-numbers boring.

And for what it's worth - I didn't even see Star Wars until my teens in the mid 90s. And they're... okay.  I don't have the "emotional investment" or nostalgia tied to them that colors my view of Episode 1 (and 2.  3 is okayish).

As for what Disney is going to do with FOX properties - it goes back to my earlier comment.  One mega corp buying up a second megacorp.  I can't think of anything that's had the FOX logo attached to it in recent years that screamed new and original.  The closest would be Orville - but is a Star Trek parody really original
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #286 on: March 21, 2019, 07:56:25 PM »
>Star Wars has looked like crap since Episode 7

Really?

Sometimes, I feel like I've entered an alternate universe where the prequels don't exist.  Or were fundamentally different movies than the ones I saw.  Not that I'm saying 7&8 are amazing masterpieces, but they're, at the very least, entertaining.  Episode 1 is... ugh.  Between Jar Jar, kid actor with no talent, and politics and economics.... I just cannot find Episode 1 entertaining.  Even the Pod Race scene is so by-the-numbers boring.

I grew up on the original movies & saw the prequels as they released. Really, the only one of the 3 I can't stand is Episode 1. Attack on the Clones has everything involving Obi Wan to balance-out everything terrible involving Anakin, and Revenge of the Sith is kind of a legitimately good movie IMO. However, the thing I like about the prequels is that they are distinctly "different" from the original trilogy, focusing more on political movements and how decisions made with good intentions but in haste can lead to terrible outcomes.

Yeah, the writing's spotty at best whenever Padme and Anakin are in a scene together, but there's some genuinely cool stuff in the prequel trilogy IMO without absolutely obliterating my love for the original 3 movies.

Meanwhile, Episode 7 is the most bored I've been watching any Star Wars film, and that includes Episode 1. It's so by-the-numbers and boring, relying on nostalgia to paper over terrible writing; contrivance; and a colossal Mary Sue who apparently only became more so in The Last Jedi. And Darth Nasal was a joke. I think Dark Helmet was more intimidating.

I was so turned off by Episode 7 that I didn't bother watching the other Star Wars films. And yes, I know The Last Jedi blows everything up while utterly disrespecting the original films.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 08:00:37 PM by broodwars »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #287 on: March 21, 2019, 08:00:11 PM »
>It's as the business requires emotional investment to stay viable.

Again, we are *not* going to agree on this.  Rephrasing your opinion isn't going to change my mind.

>Using the Simpsons is the lamest irrelevant example you could have given.

Using one of FOX's most defining, most stable, most basic properties is a 'lame example' of how little care FOX has given their properties over the last 20 years?

Yeah... no.  FOX has not only allowed Zombie Simpsons to continue running for so long, but they've pretty much forced it into the formulatic shell of what it once was, with their Scooby-Doo celebrity of the week, merchandising, and lead-ins to new shows.  The Simpsons Movie *is* what FOX is.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #288 on: March 21, 2019, 08:10:03 PM »
As a kid I was a collector of Goosebumps. Not one TV episode compares to the Books. Not the movies. Nothing is as good. I have a better imagination than any of the directors.

Same with the Martian. I read the book and the movie was **** to me.

Fight Club did a good job. There are only about 3 things left out of the movie, but they weren't that necessary.

I'm still waiting for a Willy Wonka and the Glass Elevator movie. The Witches is coming out again. I really liked the 90s adaptation.

I haven't been bothered to read any Harry Potter books. I've enjoyed the movies.

Remember that Dragon Ball movie?


I think the emergence of deep fakes will eventually kill copyright. There will be new movies starring your favorite actor, but they'll have been long dead. Also, soon you wont be able to tell the difference between CG and reality. In 20 years things are going to get weird.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 08:17:09 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #289 on: March 21, 2019, 09:33:47 PM »
The PT exist and are bad, just not insultingly bad, kept things in line enough nor take a dump on OT. I was mostly bored with a couple WTF, boos. 'Sand' and 'NNNOOOOOO' jokes still has me laughing. Then there are damn good videos mocking the hell out of it. Even a history channel decided to make a sand joke. For all the bad we got something good out of it which I can't say for NuSW.

TFA opening crawl insanity foreshadowed how bad things were going to be. It instantly set off the WTF alarm as it couldn't wait to poochie SW fast enough among many, many legitimate issues. So many in fact it takes a multi-hour video to discuss the objective issues within.

Other than the excellent last 1/3 of Rogue One(Really annoyed this isn't rogue squadron) the only thing good I have gotten out of NuSW is this:


I can't stop laughing as it encapsulates a lot of what is wrong with NuSW.

>It's as the business requires emotional investment to stay viable.

Again, we are *not* going to agree on this.  Rephrasing your opinion isn't going to change my mind.

>Using the Simpsons is the lamest irrelevant example you could have given.

Using one of FOX's most defining, most stable, most basic properties is a 'lame example' of how little care FOX has given their properties over the last 20 years?

Yeah... no.  FOX has not only allowed Zombie Simpsons to continue running for so long, but they've pretty much forced it into the formulatic shell of what it once was, with their Scooby-Doo celebrity of the week, merchandising, and lead-ins to new shows.  The Simpsons Movie *is* what FOX is.

It is a factual observation with plenty of evidence to back it up. It isn't an opinion. You seeing eye to eye isn't a requirement.

Nobody is disagreeing with "Simpsons" Bad. It's failure before it's zombie state and fall from relevance wasn't self induced. The Simpsons literally fell out of relevance the moment the 90's ended. It got finished off by Family Guy which made dropping it painless. The problem is that the Simpsons still has too much inertia to kill, it's been there so long it's a de facto institution or a US weapons program. While I don't know who is watching it there are enough things with eyes.

While it's saddled with The Simpsons it does try to do something new, crass, risky, let it out loose long enough for it to play out on it's own terms after many good season.(Firefly exception)

If nothing else it gave us Seth McFarland amazing talent. Orville has moved well beyond parody and ST shadow quite a while a go. It was an immensely risky at the time considering it was up again "STD" which turned out to be clown shoes terrible. I am legit interested in where every character on the ship is going, their serious stories. I want to know more about that crazy cool looking alien who gave Bortus porn.

Seth loves ST, he loved it so much he made videos of himself playing ST. His emotional investment has made an infinity greater show. He has rewarded our investment, our trust. In return among many positive things he gets money.

Imagine if Feige didn't care, you get DC movies.

Disney? Yeah right. When you are burning people out on the second movie and people are pointing out how the Beauty and the Beast remake strangely regressive while the original is empowering in tone something is wrong. The company is the zombie. Simpsons at least isolated itself. Even Incredible 2 was a strangely hollow messy retread of the first with a bizarre ending that deflates it. PIXAR, BRAD BIRD, how did this happen? It shouldn't have but it did.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #290 on: March 21, 2019, 10:23:15 PM »
Quote
It is a factual observation with plenty of evidence to back it up. It isn't an opinion. You seeing eye to eye isn't a requirement.

An opinion being based on facts doesn't make the opinion itself a fact. This seems to be a recurring issue for you, where you are convinced that your point of view is unassailable and everyone who disagrees with you is flat-out wrong.


Quote
While it's saddled with The Simpsons it does try to do something new, crass, risky, let it out loose long enough for it to play out on it's own terms after many good season.(Firefly exception)

This is just an insane thing to say. Fox is notorious for having a quick hook for canceling shows. NBC lets things play out, Fox will pull the plug almost immediately if they think it's going wrong. Firefly isn't the exception, The Simpsons and Zombie Family Guy are.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #291 on: March 21, 2019, 11:24:31 PM »
Fox also cancelled my favorite show, Wonderfalls, and just kind of let Futurama die. Some of my favorite episodes were after it returned including and especially the series finale.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #292 on: March 22, 2019, 12:13:58 AM »
Phantom Menace (Which gave us Midiclorians but somehow didn't **** all over what came before) has been out for nearly twenty years now.  Of course there's videos and memes all over the internet.  Come back when 7 is 20 years old.

Okay, let's say I agree with you - it's perfectly normal - and okay - to be emotionally invested in a space opera where the lead female character open-mouth kisses her brother.

Do you honestly believe Lucas (Or Disney) has the same emotional investment in *you* watching the movies?

Since you don't like to answer questions, I'll go ahead and field this one.

He doesn't.  He doesn't even know or care that you exist.  You mean literally nothing to him.

How far do you expect to get in a relationship where one partner is so emotionally invested and the other partner literally doesn't give two dog turds?

Answer: The same place this conversation is going.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #293 on: March 22, 2019, 12:41:53 AM »
Hey Guys! What's going in this thre-


Offline UncleBob

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #294 on: March 22, 2019, 02:06:42 AM »
The Prequel/Disney movie discussion had me wondering, so I flipped over to RT...

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star_wars_saga

Two of the four released Disney movies (7 and Rogue One) beat all three Prequel movies on both critic and audience score.  Surprisingly, Rogue One comes in behind 7 in both categories (although it's only one point behind in audience score)  This surprises me, as I thing Rogue One is leaps and bounds beyond what 7 offers.

The other two movies (8 and Solo) beat the Prequel movies on critic score.

Solo beats 2/3 Prequel movies on Audience score and barely loses to #3 - a mere 2% points.

8... wow.  The audience score on it took a beating, putting it in last (10th) place amongst all live action Star Wars movies.  Oddly, the critic score places it in 4th, behind 5, 4, and 7.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #295 on: March 22, 2019, 04:12:29 AM »
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Offline lolmonade

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #296 on: March 22, 2019, 08:47:27 AM »
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures.  But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it.  Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #297 on: March 22, 2019, 08:52:52 AM »
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures.  But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it.  Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.
I love the range of emotions in this post.

Determination > Reflection > Acceptance > Despair

Offline lolmonade

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #298 on: March 22, 2019, 09:57:42 AM »
There's some part of me that wants to rebut the Luke meme with arguing that most people don't follow a linear path from bad/conflicted to pure goodness, and often fight against their weaknesses their entire lives with both victories and failures.  But the internet at large wants Luke to be a purely good and infallible hero, I get it.  Also I feel like I've already lost by arguing with a meme.
I love the range of emotions in this post.

Determination > Reflection > Acceptance > Despair

That's basically the order of operation from waking up to bedtime for me, lol.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Disney bought Fox: Fox Shareholders Agreed to $71B Disney Buyout!!
« Reply #299 on: March 22, 2019, 10:01:19 AM »
Luke is a person who will never quit. He got back up every single time even if it was he knew he was in for another beat down. Then for absolutely no reason he quits on everyone and everything. It's not a light/dark side issue.

What NuSW did to him was character assassination, as did Han, Leia. The sudden turn of events are unearned, Luke would not attempt to murder someone in their sleep over a bad dream. Him running away like Obi Wan did has no reason other than to repeat ANH with none of the justification that Obi Wan has like avoid getting murked, looking over Luke.

If you want Luke to fall you have to have something more substantial than a bad dream in a 10 second flash back. By screwing over Luke they also screwed over Kylo because he is just Evil, no reason, has been along.

Han, hero is now a dead beat dad who went back to smuggling and forgot where he parked his car. Leia decades later is fighting the same war they already won. Suddenly Mary Poppins.

Just because the problem is stated in a meme it doesn't make the problem go away.

The Prequel/Disney movie discussion had me wondering, so I flipped over to RT...

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star_wars_saga

Two of the four released Disney movies (7 and Rogue One) beat all three Prequel movies on both critic and audience score.  Surprisingly, Rogue One comes in behind 7 in both categories (although it's only one point behind in audience score)  This surprises me, as I thing Rogue One is leaps and bounds beyond what 7 offers.

The other two movies (8 and Solo) beat the Prequel movies on critic score.

Solo beats 2/3 Prequel movies on Audience score and barely loses to #3 - a mere 2% points.

8... wow.  The audience score on it took a beating, putting it in last (10th) place amongst all live action Star Wars movies.  Oddly, the critic score places it in 4th, behind 5, 4, and 7.
You always double back to the individual when discussing a collective based issue. They can't care for any one specific person but they must care for the collective.

lol citing RT these days. It's been discussed how broken RT is. You can't have a 50+- difference between viewer and critic scores without there something fundamentally broken with the system.

Midiclorians fucked with the idea of what the Force is while stupid it doesn't break the universe like the Light speed Ram does. If Admiral Ackbar could trade one cruiser for the Death Star instead of the Battle of Endor he would have. Why use bombers(wtf you have torpedoes... gravity bombs) when you can ram. Every space battle in SW is now broken. Have fun retconning. The Force is still the Force... but now with a pointless, vague and mundane explanation that no one asked for.

With the speed the Internet moves these days you don't need to wait 20 years for nearly all the memes to get extracted.
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