Author Topic: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis  (Read 6343 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jonnyboy117

  • Associate Editor
  • NWR Staff
  • Score: 37
    • View Profile
    • Nintendo World Report

The doctor is here, and I'm preparing my thesis.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/45776/episode-546-the-influence-of-classical-waggle-on-the-modern-metropolis

It's finally here, playable for you, it's the newest 3D Mario game...crew. Mario Odyssey is out! Also out this week, Greg and Jon. We decided to save our mostly spoiler-free discussion of Mario Odyssey for the second segment, so the show kicks off with NWR News Editor Donald Theriault and his impressions of Fire Emblem Warriors. He too has now had to do the rushed review, and it turns out he still enjoyed hacking down thousands of nameless soldiers. Guillaume has impressions of the New 3DS version of Fire Emblem Warriors (it runs well) and much more, fresh from the Nintendo of Canada holiday event. He also got his hands on: Doom, Skyrim, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, and Snipperclips Plus. James had nothing but Mario to talk about, so he reads an email about unpopular opinions.

In the second segment, former host and notorious Regulator Jonny Metts joins the trio to talk Super Mario Odyssey. As Jon so neatly summarized last week, it is an "absolute delight". They talk about the game's structure, its humor, and its overall feel. We'll have a more detailed conversation in the near future, but for now we try to avoid talking about specific details of the game.

Thanks to Donald and Jonny for joining us on short notice.

Lastly, we have some news! It's time for RFN's next RetroActive: The WiiWare Farewell Tour. On the verge of the service's demise, we've taken your suggestions for unforgettable WiiWare and built a poll. Voting closes at the end of our next recording session (11/9), so vote NOW.

Our candidates are:

  • Contra ReBirth
  •  
  • Blaster Master: Overdrive
  •  
  • Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Darklord
  •    
  • Fluidity/Hydroventure
  •  
  • Jett Rocket
  •  
  • La-Mulana

We'll be doing our RetroActive as part of the NWR 8th Annual Telethon in Support of Child's Play Charity, on Saturday, Dec. 2. Full details will be available on NWR soon.

THE LAMB IS WATCHING!

Offline Disco Stu

  • Has a Fever for Saturday Night
  • *
  • Score: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2017, 03:02:07 PM »
Featuring the return of Droopy Gui!
I got hooked on the white stuff back in the 70s.

Offline pokepal148

  • Mafia sign ups are now open.
  • *
  • Score: -9960
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2017, 03:18:36 PM »
Shout Out to Clex Yoshi for all but dooming us to a retroactive of LA Mulana. How is it it's always people who are wrong who get a fanbase?
Forum Retrospective - Come play games with us. It'll be fun.

Offline MASB

  • "the love affair between me and my Wii had just begun"
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2017, 08:10:59 PM »
Jon's absence, so mysterious! I'm beginning to think he's become a Secret Agent Man. According to the song, they give you a number and take away your name. Just to throw it out there, what do you think Jon's number would be?

Greg once said that Jon was still subject to the Queen's wishes and could be called in at any moment. That's it! Jon's been called in and Greg's his handler! Jon, if you need help, on the next epsiode, when James asks you for your impressions of Odyssey, say you'd give it a 8.5. We'll get you to a safehouse in Atlanta. Philips Arena during a Hawks game. No one in the stands to report you and all your bodyguards will be 7 feet tall.

The Odyssey discussion at the end was absolutely excellent. The kind of in-depth analysis RFN shines at. Sorry, moons at. Great to hear Jonny again. Wish he had given an update on the interview podcasts for the book (perhaps he didn't mention it because there's nothing to say at the moment).

Gui's experiences at Nintendo of Canada events are always a hoot to listen to. Seems like a neat event, though it can be improved like Gui said. Feels like most of the deficencies of NoC's handling are due to lack of planning and/or creativity more than anything else.

Donald and Gui's tag-teaming of Fire Emblem Warriors went well. Interesting details while making fun of the usual Musou 'features'.

Offline ClexYoshi

  • Passionate Poster
  • Score: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2017, 09:07:46 PM »
Shout Out to Clex Yoshi for all but dooming us to a retroactive of LA Mulana. How is it it's always people who are wrong who get a fanbase?

Hey, Mang. don't hate the playa', hate the game!



Speaking of hating the game, I can't stand Persona. Or Shin Megami Tensei in general! people swear by that stuff, but I dunno. never been a huge fan of the art in the base Megaten games. I kinda like how Nocturne looks on the PS2, I guess, but not enough to go out of my way to play it, and Persona 3 stressed me out wanting to do the "living life" stuff right so I don't miss out on stuff, y'know? I just wanted to play the dungeon stuff, and then the game bitches that it makes you tired and boots you out and just... no!

Offline azeke

  • He's ruining Splatfest for the rest of us
  • Score: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2017, 09:25:48 PM »
Not sure why Fluidity is even in the poll since it got a dedicated retroactive already... I think?.. Or am i confusing it with one of podcasts featuring a lot of discussion about Fluidity.

Fluidity is great but it has to be La-Mulana. Though i am no not sure if you will have enough prep time of just 3-4 days to play it.
Winners don't hate and W101 rocks

Offline Denhette

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2017, 12:34:36 AM »
Whow, the La Mulana fans are really in sync there. 30 people voting at the exact same time :O xD

Offline ClexYoshi

  • Passionate Poster
  • Score: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2017, 03:52:28 AM »
Whow, the La Mulana fans are really in sync there. 30 people voting at the exact same time :O xD

Allow me to explain that in detail.

When I found out this poll went live, I went to several discord servers I frequent, my tumblr, and other forms of social media I have and told folks I really want to hear RFN talk about one of my all-time favorite games, and maybe have an excuse to properly revisit it after all this time!

Also, I think La Mulana will make a HELL of a retroactive.

Azeke, the Poll will be done at the end of the week, and they'll have 3 WEEKS to play it.

Even still, La Mulana is kinda huge, and it took me a fairly long time to beat it on my first run through of the original Freeware game.

Offline MASB

  • "the love affair between me and my Wii had just begun"
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 04:13:09 AM »
Allow me to explain that in detail.

When I found out this poll went live, I went to several discord servers I frequent, my tumblr, and other forms of social media I have and told folks I really want to hear RFN talk about one of my all-time favorite games, and maybe have an excuse to properly revisit it after all this time!

I hope the people who voted actually listen to RFN and didn't just vote because you asked them to. That'd kind of suck otherwise. If not, James, start your FFCC campaign so we can get advice/commands from the oddly-dressed chancellor/prime minister.

Offline ClexYoshi

  • Passionate Poster
  • Score: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 05:55:24 AM »
I distinctly remember downloading the demo for Darklord and being more bored with it than I was for the demo for Crystal Defenders (which was originally a Mobile tower defense game).

Does quirky charm alone really hold a game that comes off as a glorified mobile title up THAT much?

Really, Mobile title is about how I'd sum up all of Square-Enix's Wiiware efforts. figuratively with the FFCC stuff and the abusive ammount of microtransaction cosmetic DLCs attached, and literally in the case of FF4: The After Years.


I imagine that given that I tend to stream the telethon while I take art commissions to raise money for the telethon, that people will at least listen to the episode. Heck, I'm pretty sure a few of the people i pinged on discord threw Blaster Master or Contra a vote instead of La Mulana.

I've actually had to tell quite a few people WTF Jett Rocket, Fluidity, and Darklord even are, though.

Offline lolmonade

  • I wanna ride dolphins with you in the moonlight until the staff at Sea World kicks us out
  • *
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2017, 05:58:05 AM »
Allow me to explain that in detail.

When I found out this poll went live, I went to several discord servers I frequent, my tumblr, and other forms of social media I have and told folks I really want to hear RFN talk about one of my all-time favorite games, and maybe have an excuse to properly revisit it after all this time!

I hope the people who voted actually listen to RFN and didn't just vote because you asked them to. That'd kind of suck otherwise. If not, James, start your FFCC campaign so we can get advice/commands from the oddly-dressed chancellor/prime minister.


Agreed, if they're not actually listeners, it kinda just means clexyoshi is getting a vote voice 30x bigger than everyone else.


I was kinda curious about Jett Rocket so I voted for that, but it looks like already it's going to end up either the #rigged La Mulana, or Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles as the plucky counter vote.
3DS Friend Code: 0344-9310-1221
PSN: lol-monade
Twitter: @l0lmonade

Offline ejamer

  • Low man on the Triforce Totem
  • Score: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2017, 11:29:25 AM »
Contra ReBirth - Haven't played. Big Contra fan and this looks great... but not sure I want to buy more WiiWare credit. Also wonder if Contra is fun to talk about, unless you start getting into comparisons with the other games? Also also, are you really playing if you don't get some couch co-op going?

Blaster Master: Overdrive - Meh. Always want to like Blaster Master more than I already do. Would gladly sit this one out if this game is chosen (but would still be interested to listen in).

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Darklord - Would much rather play My Life as King. The demo for this game was rather underwhelming.

Fluidity/Hydroventure - This game is fantastic. The large, open levels to explore in the WiiWare original were much more appealing to me than the small, scripted stages in the 3DS sequel. I also recall hearing some discussion on old podcasts, but would love to see (hear) it get more attention. One of the biggest hidden gems on Wii, really needs to be released on another system at some point.

Jett Rocket - I know nothing about this game. Was it good? Is it worth playing today?

La-Mulana - Love this game, despite getting stuck about mid-way through. Very rewarding when you solve puzzles, although also patently unfair at times. Clearly not for everyone, but would probably make a good discussion? If people play, I recommend exploring until you get stuck and then looking stuff up online instead of banging your head against a wall - in many cases, that wall won't budge without some help.

If La-Mulana wins, will ClexYoshi or Azeke be brought in as "resident experts"?




Edit: Note that La-Mulana is available in several formats (WiiWare, Steam, PSN) although some details might differ between versions. That might make it easier for people to get a playable copy, although also maybe a poor choice for a "WiiWare Farewell Tour".
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 11:38:53 AM by ejamer »
NNID: ejamer

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2017, 12:22:07 PM »
Jett Rocket is a pretty mediocre game, stands out for looking pretty nice for a wiiware game but being on wiiware is really the only standout feature of that game. It's a standard 3D platformer except rather short. I don't think it's worth talking about.



Contra Rebirth got buried by the much fancier Contra 4 but it has a difficulty balance that mortals can actually deal with. So if you actually made it past level 2 of Contra 4 on normal difficulty it's probably too easy for you. Me, I never managed the latter.

Offline pokepal148

  • Mafia sign ups are now open.
  • *
  • Score: -9960
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2017, 01:09:16 PM »
#rigged
Forum Retrospective - Come play games with us. It'll be fun.

Offline P1KM1NM4N

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2017, 01:28:01 PM »
Yeah... I would have to echo a few concerns people are bringing up. Although I've enjoyed Contra Rebirth, La-Mulana, and FFCC: My life as a Darklord. I would actually prefer if they discussed something I've never heard of before, so Fluidity or Jett Rocket would be a better choice I think.


Ultimately, they should pick one of the titles that may never be available once the WiiWare store closes. I've enjoyed La-Mulana but it's out on steam and the Vita, and I get that's not on any other Nintendo systems, but I've got a feeling that when La-Mulana 2 gets released it will be a perfect excuse to do a retro active of the first title regardless of what platform they play it on.


Just my two cents.

Offline ClexYoshi

  • Passionate Poster
  • Score: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2017, 02:06:04 PM »
I do kinda feel like Curve digital is doing all righ tofr itself with Stealth Inc doing as well as it did, and if they wanted to bring back fluidity in HD, switch would be the route of least resistance. it'a lso gotten a lot of talk about it in it's past.

Jett Rocket does kinda just... exists.

A much more interesting Blaster Master game already had a (Somewhat) recent retroactive a couple of years back

the only game I kinda feel bad about rallying the base for the democratic process over is Contra Rebirth, because that game is kinda doomed, especiallyb ecause... yes, it was sandwiched between the much better Contra 4 and the XBLA Hard Corps remake/reboot/sequel thing. I still think of the rebirth games, Gradius and especially Castlevania the Adventure are the two more deserving games.


La Mulana, by virtue of existing on Steam and Vita, indeed gives it the most access for the easiest groundswell of support. people don't actually have to load wii points in order to participate. It's still an undeserved niche of a game that genuinely gets a bad rap from people who don't 'get' it. La Mulana 2 is also kinda stuck in developer hell as is, and I don't know if Naramura and Duplex have the resources  to even put La Mulana 2 out on a lot of platforms, let alone perform more ports of the remake.

Offline ejamer

  • Low man on the Triforce Totem
  • Score: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 03:19:58 PM »
Oh man - did you guys see the news?
La-Mulana EX physical release on Vita, with preorders opening later this week, thanks to Limited Run Games! Normal and deluxe versions.
https://limitedrungames.com/collections/games/products/limited-run-93-la-mulana-ex-vita

Sweet.  Despite some issues with the game - there are a few "puzzles" I honestly don't think are possible without a guide - I'd totally be on-board to grab a copy.


The Contra Rebirth talk above has me curious. I loved 3, and managed to finish 4 on easy and (I think) normal modes. Sounds like it still might be worth checking out, even if it's not super crazy challenging?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 03:21:48 PM by ejamer »
NNID: ejamer

Offline zalmute

  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 07:14:30 AM »
Sorry I have to be that guy but in order to save the sanctity of Fire Emblem warriors... You CAN heal using Lissa or Elise. You have to hold I believe ZR to bring up the menu and if they have a staff you can heal other characters but not yourself. You can also equip Vulneries and heal that way.

Offline Yoshidious

  • Silent Partner
  • Score: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2017, 10:33:20 AM »
A much more interesting Blaster Master game already had a (Somewhat) recent retroactive a couple of years back

the only game I kinda feel bad about rallying the base for the democratic process over is Contra Rebirth, because that game is kinda doomed, especiallyb ecause... yes, it was sandwiched between the much better Contra 4 and the XBLA Hard Corps remake/reboot/sequel thing. I still think of the rebirth games, Gradius and especially Castlevania the Adventure are the two more deserving games.

Castlevania The Adventure ReBirth is my personal favourite of the ReBirth bunch, but had it been included in the poll and won, it would have been the second classic-style Castlevania game out of the past five RetroActive titles (following Rondo of Blood last year). I considered using the same logic to exclude Blaster Master Overdrive, but the Blaster Master NES RetroActive was a whole year earlier than the Rondo one, so I didn't think that was necessary. I also like Gradius ReBirth, but it's probably not as well suited to generating conversation as Contra is, and thus we ended up with the list as you see it here.
Greg Leahy
Former RFN Editor

Offline ClexYoshi

  • Passionate Poster
  • Score: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 03:04:00 PM »
Yeah, that makes sense, Greg.

Offline Crimm

  • Get your unfiltered Bowsette here!
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 1147
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2017, 06:40:38 PM »
So we had a chat in RFN back-channels. I'll admit, I'm not in love with how that went down, but it is what it is.


So if it wins, it wins. HOWEVER anyone out campaigning for this game should campaign just as stridently to get those same people to attend, spread the word, and donate.


That said, I'd have preferred this go without people feeling put-out. And we're going to have the chance for that, with our first stretch goal: a second RFN WiiWare RetroActive. $4k is the goal for the telethon. Right now we're looking at either 4.5k or 5k.


And there will be no brigading this time. Donations will help drive the vote. Details tbd
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 06:42:18 PM by Crimm »
James Jones
Mondo Editor
Nintendo World Report

Offline ClexYoshi

  • Passionate Poster
  • Score: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2017, 01:03:02 AM »
I most certainly will be campaining to get people to donate to the actual telethon, just because it's a good cause.

Unfortunatley it's a bit late, but I did try to be transparent about it in case people running the telethon or on the actual RFN panel objected to my attempts to rally individuals. Now that I fully understand the sort of social media reach I can actually have, I promise I won't do this again and I'll be working hard to make sure for whatever grief that the telethon sees donations from individuals I got to vote.

Offline lolmonade

  • I wanna ride dolphins with you in the moonlight until the staff at Sea World kicks us out
  • *
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2017, 05:45:59 AM »
So we had a chat in RFN back-channels. I'll admit, I'm not in love with how that went down, but it is what it is.


So if it wins, it wins. HOWEVER anyone out campaigning for this game should campaign just as stridently to get those same people to attend, spread the word, and donate.


That said, I'd have preferred this go without people feeling put-out. And we're going to have the chance for that, with our first stretch goal: a second RFN WiiWare RetroActive. $4k is the goal for the telethon. Right now we're looking at either 4.5k or 5k.


And there will be no brigading this time. Donations will help drive the vote. Details tbd


I was hoping you'd take a more King Solomon approach and split the baby - RFN talks about La Mulana in the retroactive section, but ONLY takes listener comments about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.
3DS Friend Code: 0344-9310-1221
PSN: lol-monade
Twitter: @l0lmonade

Offline azeke

  • He's ruining Splatfest for the rest of us
  • Score: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2017, 04:46:24 PM »
La Mulana 2 is also kinda stuck in developer hell as is
?

The game is nearing completion with steady updates from the dev team informing about their progress. They're finishing up balancing as of the last update.
Winners don't hate and W101 rocks

Offline Kobeskillz

  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Episode 546: The Influence of Classical Waggle on the Modern Metropolis
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2017, 05:33:24 PM »
Wario Land 1 on the gameboy is absolutely the best Wario Land game. No question about it.


Even back in the 90's when i went to buy Wario Land 2 i was sooooo disappointed in it. Still own it and still am.

My kids and I had a blast in two player mode and my kids love the motion controls. Selfish grown ups.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 08:16:36 AM by Kobeskillz »