Topic: Nintendo Goodness

[blu knight]

Hey, do you all think this year's games will be harder to choose from than last year's games?  I mean in 2002 it was Mario, Star Fox, RE(remake, and zero), Animal Crossing, Metroid, and Time Spillters.  But this year its Metal Gear(remake), Mario Kart, F-Zero, Soul Calibur, Pikmin(i think its coming out this year), Mario Golf, Zelda, Viewtiful Joe, and 1080.  I didn't think that the Cube could ever top the software released in 2002; but 2003 may just do that.  This lineup is so good that besides Madden '04, I doubt I'll buy anymore games for my PS2 and focus mainly on getting those Cube games.  

[Ian Sane]

I agree with Ryujin in that of all those games listed very few are what I would consider killer apps or titles that will be huge sellers. Most of those are decent titles but are not absolute must-buys or anything. Every once and a while someone makes some list of great upcoming or released games and usually 70% of it are games that the average casual fan just would not give a sh!t about. Saying that something like Mario Party 5 or Kirby Air Ride is going to be a huge hit is quite fanboyish. They just aren't the type of games that are going to make a big splash. A lot of people say "Xbox doesn't have anything coming out" but I'll bet a hardcore Xbox fan could easily make a super list with 20 "must own" titles. They would no doubt be listing off some pretty minor titles but that's no different from any of the lists we see here.

Personally I find that the upcoming Gamecube lineup is decent in that it will have a few titles I'm really looking forward to. Most of those titles I'm anticipating however are third party titles. In my opinion in terms of first party games this is one of Nintendo's weaker fall/winter lineups. There isn't a really big title to make people go out and buy a Cube. Mario Kart seems to be their big Christmas title and personally I've always considered Mario Kart to be more of a supporting game instead of a system seller. As the flagship title for this Christmas season it's kind of weak especially compared to last year's lineup. Plus with reports of the game being too slow my anticipation for it is severely weakened.

The upcoming lineup is decent. It certainly isn't anywhere near the best Nintendo lineup ever or something that is going to sell millions of Gamecubes.  

[Ryujin]

Exactly Ian!  Thank you for explaining better than I could

Just want to make a comment and som questions:

When is the last time Nintendo made a totally new game that was meant to sell tons of systems?  The closest thing I can think of is Metroid Prime, but really that's still an old series.  When's the last time Nintendo has even seemed to TRY to make a new killer app?  they usually seem to rely on Mario and Zelda...  I think it'd be really neat to see a title with the same effort that was put into these games, but is totally new.  Maybe with a good multiplayer aspect?

[Gup]

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Originally posted by: Ryujin
When's the last time Nintendo has even seemed to TRY to make a new killer app?  they usually seem to rely on Mario and Zelda...  I think it'd be really neat to see a title with the same effort that was put into these games, but is totally new.  Maybe with a good multiplayer aspect?

If you say that, start pointing your fingers at other companies too.

Capcom - Resident Evil, MegaMan, CAPCOM VS SNK!!!

Konami - Metal Gear, Castlevania

Koei - DYNASTY WARRIORS!!!!!!

Activision - Tony Hawk

Square - FINAL FANTASY!!!!!

[mouse_clicker]

Super Smash Bros. is a relatively new franchise, as are Pikmin and Geist. It would be nice to see a bit more diversity from Nintendo, though, in terms of franchises, like what Sega did (then again that may be the reason Sega flopped).

Anyway, can anyone answer my question? Is Twin Snakes due out this year or next year?

[Ryujin]

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Originally posted by: Gup

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Originally posted by: Ryujin
When's the last time Nintendo has even seemed to TRY to make a new killer app?  they usually seem to rely on Mario and Zelda...  I think it'd be really neat to see a title with the same effort that was put into these games, but is totally new.  Maybe with a good multiplayer aspect?

If you say that, start pointing your fingers at other companies too.

Capcom - Resident Evil, MegaMan, CAPCOM VS SNK!!!

Konami - Metal Gear, Castlevania

Koei - DYNASTY WARRIORS!!!!!!

Activision - Tony Hawk

Square - FINAL FANTASY!!!!!

Did I EVER say anything about other company's games?  Capcom:  bought Res Evil 0, not buying a game from them again in the Cube's life
Konami:  Never played their games much
Koei:  Same as Konami
Activision:  Bought THPS3, not buying another activision game in the Cube's life
Square:  I have NEVER bought a square game!

NINTENDO:  I buy Nintendo games, and why should I expect from nintendo what other companies do?

To Mouse Clicker:

I didn't say they don't make innovative games, I said when's the last time they made a new game that wasn't in a current series and was made to be a killer app.  Pardon me, but I doubt a 10-15 hour game that is a niche title was meant to be a killer app or had as much work put into it as a Zelda or Mario title...


Edit:  Smash bro.'s wasn't meant to be a killer app originally either to my knowledge. Don't get me wrong, both games are very fun, but for me for a game on consoles to be absolutely awesome you have to be able to do more stuff (3D) and have a better single payer.  Not that I'd want a game like SSBM to be totally 3D...

[Gup]

Twin Snakes is suppose to come out this year, but there have been rumors it might slip to 2004.  It would be in Nintendo's best interest to have it released this year since MK: DD would be the only other major title for the Holiday, mine is I-NINJA(looks too cool!!!)

[mouse_clicker]

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I didn't say they don't make innovative games, I said when's the last time they made a new game that wasn't in a current series and was made to be a killer app. Pardon me, but I doubt a 10-15 hour game that is a niche title was meant to be a killer app or had as much work put into it as a Zelda or Mario title...

What I meant was that they were trying- they're not completely resting on their major franchises and have started to branch out.

[mouse_clicker]

Double post.

[Ryujin]

Oh, I know.  I agree that they make plenty of fairly good new games, but I want to see an AWESOME new game  Afterall, how did those major franchises such as Zelda start?  By trying to make an awesome game where you can at least slightly explore.  If they had only made offshoot games, mario games, and games that were new, but not that great, then Zelda never would have been created  I just want them to make another Mario, or Zelda, granted they'd be taking a risk that all that hard work wouldn't sell well, but I think it's worth it.

[Ian Sane]

"When is the last time Nintendo made a totally new game that was meant to sell tons of systems?"

If you count Rare then Perfect Dark could count but in terms of Nintendo first party games the last one I can think of is Star Fox which was made in 1993, ie: ten years ago.  Well Pokemon is a killer app but since it was originally a Gameboy game I think it's success was kind of a fluke.  I certainly don't think Nintendo made Pokemon with the intention of it being a huge hit.

However for all we know Pikmin was supposed to be the next big thing and unfortunately things didn't go as planned.  Early in the Gamecube's life Nintendo was pushing this "short games are better" thing (for some weird reason) so it's possible that they thought Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin would be the next big titles to carry Nintendo into the future.  Of course the short games idea bombed so Pikmin is regarded as a niche title but the intentions could have been for it to be the next big thing.

[Ryujin]

Well, I guess that's true, but somehow I kind of doubt Nintendo looked at Pikmin and said 'there's a pretty good chance this could be a really huge hit'.  But some games you can just tell...  I'm sure Nintendo knows enough about games by now to know if it is fun, has good gameplay, and at least decent graphics.

I think a good FPS would sell well, and if it was really good, sell systems.  Look at Halo, it's the main reason most people buy Xboxes, and the FPSs on comp are really popular right now.  Nintendo needs to just make sure they don't half ass it...  In fact, get me to test it for them, I can see if it'll sell

[blu knight]

I find it somewhat pointless to argue that none of the 1st party games coming out this year can be considered "killer apps".  We don't know if these games will sell good or not, maybe Kirby's Air Ride will be the breakout title that carries the Cube through the rest of 2003 or maybe it will be Zelda or F-Zero.  I don't understand why we get so caught up in "what game is going to sell millions" rather than "what game am I intersted in buying this year".  Just because we think the Cube needs a FPS or RPG game doesn't mean it will be the next Halo or Final Fantasy in terms of sales, it just means a certain portion of Cube owners who like FPS's and RPG's will be happy; which is fine.  

Personally, I find this year's titles to be a very solid lineup of games(1st and 3rd party alike).  That isn't to say that I don't think Nintendo should try new things in developing games, or cater to the type of games I like.  Maybe we'll see a lot of new titles next year.

[Ryujin]

Blu Knight, I wasn't talking about how many game would sell...  Just because it's an FPS won't make it sell, but if it's a REALLY good FPS, then it would be another fun game, and players who love Halo might consider GC.  What I was saying about killer apps was not a random game selling alot....  What I want is a game that Nintendo try really hard on and do a really good job.  It seems to me they're not making any games that are REALLY good AND not part of a current series.  I want them to work on an FPS (or whatever game) just as hard as they work on a Zelda or Mario game.  I could care less how it sells, but then we would hopefully have an awesome game, that is different and surprises us.  You wouldn't expect as much out of such a game as you would out of Zelda or Mario, but if it's better or on par with those games (yet totally different) then it will blow us away...  Kirby's air ride could sell a crap load, but if it isn't fun for me, it's just another game that sold alot.  And these games like Pikmin and most upcoming games look to me to be good titles, but nothing made to blow us away.  If they did make such a great game, then we would have ANOTHER great game to branch from with a series and such...

It just doesn't seem to me like Nintendo is going all out, it seems they're handing games out or making 'pretty good' games...  Maybe it's just me, but so far I've had more fun with my N64 than my GC...  We had a Zelda that blew us away, a Mario that blew us away, 2 awesome FPSs (PD and GE), a brand new fun Star Fox, same with Mario Kart.

Now, if they want to keep making Zeldas and Marios, at least try to make them ALOT better than previous versions...  to me, mario sunshine felt like a DIFFERENT game rather than a BETTER game compared to Mario 64.  I have yet to play Wind Waker, so I don't know for sure about that...

The only must have games I can think of are SSBM, and Metroid Prime (I know most disagree), and perhaps Wind Waker.  Maybe it's me changing, but I had more fun in GE, PD, and Zelda than in these 2 games I mentioned as must haves...  I simply haven't had as much reason to visit my cube...

Remember, no where in this post did I say GC was worse than Xbox or PS2, because  still think GC is better, but not up to par with N64, which is supposedly the 'worst' console ever, yet has the 4 or 5 most fun console games I can think of ever...

[mouse_clicker]

Even if the FPS was REALLY good it would still need a lot of publicity to sell well on the Gamecube. Timesplitters 2, in my opinion, is the best console FPS since Goldeneye and from what I understand it didn't sell too hot on the Cube. Nintendo really needs to push Geist, not just squeak it out the door without any ads like Eternal Darkness.

[Ryujin]

TS2:  Awesome concept, good singleplayer, nice options, cool arcade mode
TS2:  Way too fast even on slow, feels like you're floating, and the controls are too loose

TS2 is a good concept but nowhere near as fun as Halo, GE, or PD.  This is after playing alot of each game.  Alot of you will just say it's better than Halo because Halo's on Xbox or it's better than GE or PD because those are Rare games that aren't with Nintendo anymore...

If TS2 had better controls (not really controls, but how they feel), and was much slower it would be great IMO, but I AM used to Halo, BF1942, Counterstrike, and GE...  I think it's really hard to aim in TS2 as well.

I really do enjoy arcade, co-op, and single player though.  If nintendo makes a cartoony game like that with all the options and unlockables, but corrects it like I said, then markets it as Mouse said, they have a pretty good chance of a hit, and they make me happy  it needs LAN too, you need at least 10 people to make an FPS REALLY good (one reason PC FPSs are usually better than console).

[franky005]

I do believe that Goldeneye and PD were better than Timesplitters, but now I can't stand them because of the graphics and the slowdown.  Halo...I didn't like it because I didn't know how to play to well, so I was just getting my ass kicked, it also was kind of slow for my tastes but that's because I am used to TS2.  Me and my friends started playing TS2 again, and it is great.  I do agree with the aiming being tight, but part of that is because it is so fast.  I really enjoy the multiplayer and it is no doubt my fav. FPS on the Cube so far.

[Mario]

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Capcom: bought Res Evil 0, not buying a game from them again in the Cube's life

WTF?! So you can magically see every upcoming Capcom game on Gamecube? Youve played Viewtiful Joe? You know exactly what RE4 will be like? You know everything there is to know about Killer 7? Youve Played Dead Phoenix? Are you saying that you have made up your mind not to get another Capcom game for the Gamecube? You sir, are (edited ) missing out on alot of games.

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I didn't say they don't make innovative games, I said when's the last time they made a new game that wasn't in a current series and was made to be a killer app.

Pikmin? Eternal Darkness? Giest?

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I agree that they make plenty of fairly good new games, but I want to see an AWESOME new game

Pikmin and Eternal Darkness are AWESOME.

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Well, I guess that's true, but somehow I kind of doubt Nintendo looked at Pikmin and said 'there's a pretty good chance this could be a really huge hit'. But some games you can just tell... I'm sure Nintendo knows enough about games by now to know if it is fun, has good gameplay, and at least decent graphics.

If you did your research you would know that Pikmin is one of, i think THE most expensive game Nintendo has ever made. Sounds crazy, but im pretty sure its true. Nintendo put alot of development time and resources into Pikmin. It WAS meant to be a really huge hit, and it kind of is. It sold about 1.5 million worldwide, not too shabby.

And also, Ryugin, there are some very good third party games on the Gamecube (and most of them exclusive for that matter), you should try them one day

EDIT: Also, if your complaining about lack of new franchise killer apps for gamecube, then why did you like N64 that much? The only new franchise games that were made to sell millions of systems on N64 were Perfect Dark and.... Banjo Kazooie, which werent even made by Nintendo. Goldeneye certainly wasnt a new franchise, there were other bond games before that. What new franchises did Nintendo make into killer apps on the N64? Games internally developed by Nintendo were pretty much all sequels. Super Mario 64, Yoshis Story, Ocarina of Time, Majoras Mask....? Wave Race and 1080 are the only new ones i can think of, and i dont really think they were made to sell millions of console, just to fill genre gaps. Please correct me if im wrong though

[GoldShadow1]

"man, if u think that mario party is repetetive, what about the tony hawk series? i try to find something new in each game, but they're all generally the same. i mean, they throw in a few new tricks and all that junk, but i mean, the best one byfar had to be the first, for the n64, since that was fresh. but 2-4 (and upcoming ones...Tony's allowed the games to be made until 2013!) were just things we'd all seen in the first one. i mean just cuz the tricks are new doesn't mean it's more fun to do them, right?"

Well, I agree with you on 3 and 4, but THPS2 was a *huge* innovation over the first one, and my personal favorite (haven't played four yet, though).  The manual move drastically changed the game, giving you freedom for a kind of creativity in combos that was not in the first.  But anyway, I think Tony Hawk Underground or whatever it's called is going to be cool.  I've been waiting for this change for a long, long time.  If I understand it correctly, it finally has a connected, fully-realized world, something I've been wanting for a long, long time.

[mouse_clicker]

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TS2 is a good concept but nowhere near as fun as Halo, GE, or PD. This is after playing alot of each game. Alot of you will just say it's better than Halo because Halo's on Xbox or it's better than GE or PD because those are Rare games that aren't with Nintendo anymore...

Now that's where I have to disagree. I think Timesplitters 2, out of those4 games, *easily* has the best multiplayer. Perfect Dark is a strong second with Goldeneye and Halo falling behind. Halo had the best story, but I couldn't get over the complete lack of creativity in enemies and weapons (besides the fact you can only carry two friggin' weapons) and it's deplorable multiplayer. It still is incredibly fun, but both PD and GE are much better, IMO. I think Timesplitters 2 is on par with Goldeneye and better than Perfect Dark. I have also played each title extensively, and Timesplitters 2 is where I'd put my money. Halo and PD are both extraordinary FPS's, rare gems among consoles, but I don't think either can hold a candle to TS2.

And remember that TS2 is basically a Rare game- it's director was the lead designer of at least Goldeneye and Free Radical is made up of a bunch of ex-Rare employees. The whole game smacks of Rare's style, right down to the awards at the end of multiplayer matches.  

[Ryujin]

*shrug*  I guess you have your opinions.  In my opinion, the aiming is really hard, it's loose, and way too fast paced.  It doesn't seem like much skill.  Most people I know IRL don't like the game much, but most people on GC message boards love it...  Dunno

Lol @ Mario

I actually meant RE series, but I also never really liked anything else they made either.  If any of those games end up looking absolutely awesome to me, I'll get one, but I say the chances aren't that likely.

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Pikmin? Eternal Darkness? Giest?

Geist isn't out yet, is it???  And as I've mentioned, Pikmin doesn't really have the potential to be a big hit.  Eternal Darkness was pretty good (definately should have sold more, and is better than the RE series), but, for me, it's too linear and doesn't really require much aiming so it wouldn't be a game that makes me want to play it non stop.  I don't know, these games just don't have the 'feel' for me.  When I play Goldeneye or PD, I wanted to play for hours, then play again the next day.  Same with Halo.  Same with Mario Kart actually.  But IMO a game with no multiplayer shouldn't even be in the same category as a game with.  Multiplayer games just are so much more fun and make you want to play more than the 20 or 30 hours it takes to beat the game.  That's probably why I haven't been really into most Nintendo stuff.  I also like first person view better than 3rd person.  I wish games like ED and RE were 1st person but still similar to how they are now, sort of Metroid Prime.

That's why I've always felt Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, etc. are NOWHERE near as good as PE, GE, Halo, PC games that can be online, Mario Cart, or even TS2.

I've also noticed GC users online really gloss up games...  I guess it's to be expected.  When I read these forums, it makes it seem like ED or pikmin are the end all be all of all games.  They're fun for a while, but ED isn't multiplayer, and doesn't have the same exploring and freedom as Zelda or Mario.  Although it is a damn good story and fun for awhile


Edit in reply to Mario's edit:  I didn't think there were that many original series games, but they were no where near the same as previous games in the series, whereas SMS is, as I said in an earlier post, a DIFFERENT Mario 64, rather than a better one...  I don't really know how good Windwaker is, and GE was original, not in it's franchise, but the game was totally original, as were Mario and Zelda on the 64...

[Mario]

Well what im basically trying to tell you is that your opinion isnt a fact. I like gamecube better than N64, i think the games are more fun. I also prefer GC's multiplayer games compared to N64s. Eternal Darkness and Pikmin in my opinion are way better than most N64 games.

YOUR OPINION ISNT A FACT.

[Ryujin]

Jeeze, calm down... I never claimed what I was saying was fact...  If I thought it was fact I wouldn't say "I felt...", "I have always felt...", or "I think..."

[Mario]

I am calm, im always calm. Except when someone mentions pie....

[Fish]

Pie