Topic: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?

[Mop it up]

I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?

I would say that I care somewhat, but not enough to be a deciding factor. If the Nintendo lineup is strong enough, that's plenty.

Except Skylanders, if there's even going to be a 7th game.

Probably not a good thread for this, but I'm curious: is there reason to believe their won't be a 7th game? Is Imaginators not performing well?

[Shaymin]

It's underperforming badly, and Vicarious Visions has been sent to the Destiny mine.

[nickmitch]

I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?

I'm a lock for a Switch day 1 (or as soon as reasonably possible).  So, it's almost like I don't, but I do.

It matters what makes other people buy the system, so that the company can do well and keep making things for me.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?

I do, specifically because of what the Switch is. There are a lot of things that I could and already do buy on PS4 or Xbox One that I'd really love to have in that handheld form factor.

[Ian Sane]

Do I care?  Yeah, I'm pretty vocal about wanting good third party support.

But it's beyond my personal preferences.  If the third parties don't come on board we're probably looking at another Wii U style flop.  Nintendo can't afford that.  If this is another Wii U Nintendo is probably finished as a videogame system maker.  Even uniting their handheld and console development together I am not confident that Nintendo alone can carry a system and have it sell beyond the Nintendo hardcore, which is pretty much the Wii U userbase which we know is too small.

[Khushrenada]

I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?

Not counting Indie developers (who are great and will generally put their games onto any platform that can run them), meh.  Except Skylanders, if there's even going to be a 7th game.

I'm part of the problem, sure - but I haven't bought much for third party on the Wii U (Skylanders aside, Need For Speed was a *lot* of fun.  Shame EA had to be dicks about it.) or the 3DS.

I buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games.  Third party games that come along are a bonus, not a necessity.

I agree with this to an extent. The truth is there are plenty of 3rd party games I don't care about. I haven't bought a PlayStation or Xbox to play any 3rd party games that I'm missing out on with the Nintendo consoles I own because the vast majority don't interest me and I've got plenty of games to play and replay on with my Nintendo systems.

However, I'm not opposed to 3rd party offerings and have tried and bought various games ranging across a broad spectrum from Just Dance to Skies of Arcadia: Legends to Rock Band and all other manner of different experiences. Sometimes the game is lackluster like NHL Slapshot Wii and sometimes the games can be one of my favorite experiences on a system like Rhythm Thief for the 3DS. My DS experience would have been a lot poorer not having the 5 Ace Attorney games on it. (If you include Investigations.) One of the few games I was playing with any regularity during my lapsed gamer phase in the middle Wii years was Rock Band 2. The Rock Band craze was a big deal for a while and I'm very glad it was released on a Nintendo console. At it's height, it felt bigger than Wii Sports ever got. It was pretty disappointing when Rock Band 4 skipped the Wii U. That's the kind of 3rd party support I care about.

I'm not interested in first person shooters and most M rated games. So, if Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall and whatever other big shooters stay with the PlayStation and Xbox systems, that's fine by me. I don't see them ever becoming popular enough on a Nintendo console anyways. In the past 15 years, PS and Xbox have cultivated that type of gameplay and style and made it a part of their brand identity just like Nintendo's identity is bright colorful platformers with Mario/Kirby or adventure games with Zelda/Metroid. PS and Xbox have built an online infrastructure and culture to support those games and that style and it's one I'm not interested in.

If you remove all of that, what are you left with? Sports games? Sure, it'd be nice to see those on a Nintendo console. I don't see why they shouldn't appear on one but I think that ties in a bit to online play and communities and Nintendo's online policies / capabilities are different from the competition to prevent the user base for those games from wanting to make a switch from PS/XB to Nintendo for those titles. I personally don't care that much about sports games so, again, I'm not that bothered if they don't appear on a Nintendo console but I know others who would like them and, image-wise, I don't think it looks great to a consumer that something with a broad appeal like sports games aren't available on a Nintendo console.

I find the vast majority of third party stuff I like are usually games that are/were exclusive to Nintendo consoles or fit the Nintendo brand better. I know people criticized Ubisoft when they made a statement about determining which games they think would sell on Wii U like Just Dance instead of releasing something like Watch Dogs or Zombie U but I think they're right. The Harvest Moon series fits in well with this idea and Doom does not. Rock Band and Guitar Hero with their peripherals and gameplay matched ideas like DK Bongo Drums and Microphone games. Plus, those games offered pretty much the same experiences as the games appearing on the competition's consoles. Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars, despite being a good game according to those who played it, did not sell well. It wasn't what fans of the series from Xbox and PlayStation wanted nor was it what Nintendo fans wanted with a GTA game finally appearing on a Nintendo system. I think that's a factor why some of third party games sell well and some do not and why we some third party games are still being released on Nintendo systems and some are not.

I'd be happy with GC level third party support but what I'd love to see is DS level support. You may not have gotten games like Assassin's Creed or Destiny on the DS but you did get a lot of new and exclusive titles and experiences. The DS leading into the 3DS started becoming an RPG powerhouse. The World Ends With You, Radiant Historia, Dragon Quest IX. We got the Ace Attorney games. We got companies embracing the DS capabilities with Pac-Pix, Trauma Center, Feel the Magic along with other experiments embracing the less hardcore gamers in Sudoku Gridmaster, Korg DS-10, Cooking Mama, and other such ideas. Sadly, third parties don't seem that interested in making different game experiences like this anymore. Too much money tied up in AAA budget games to risk trying a bunch of smaller budget titles. As such, I don't think there will be a huge shift in third party releases as the hardcore will still want their AAA games on the more powerful console unless portability is really that big a factor for people. The knock on the PSP was that the games for it were basically the same as the console version and that didn't help the PSP in its quest to dominate the handheld market. It was the new games and ideas that were a big factor in the DS's success along with courting the casual market by means of those new ideas like Brain Age and Nintendogs. So, I'm just not sure the portability advantage of the Switch is going to be that big of a factor either in making more people buy third party games on a Nintendo console.

[Spak-Spang]

I find I don't want to play any M rated games, and many T rated games don't interest me either.  I have a PS4 and I am shocked at how few games truly interest me.  I hate the direction the market is going, and I wish I didn't have a PS4 now, because I would consider getting a Switch if I wasn't already invested in the hardware of the PS4. 

I want 3rd party support for others, but for myself I personally don't care.  The fact is, I have VERY, VERY limited resources for games now.  If I just bought only 1st party Nintendo games, I could barely afford those games.   This means although there are games I would love to play, I will miss out on most of them.  The Wii U is a system that has several great games from Nintendo that I missed out on, and I can look at the game I am playing on the PS4 and what I could play on the Wii U and I tell you, I would rather be playing the Nintendo games.

I know many people want Nintendo to change and grow and mature with the market.  I don't.  I see this market already providing the Teen and Mature rated games, and very few are offering the experiences and quality Nintendo is offering.

[Adrock]

Gaming for me is very limited these days so I'm typically content with Nintendo's first party offerings. If I wasn't, I'd have a PS4 by now. That said, I care in the sense that support needs to be good enough to get the very specific third party titles I care about. For example, I'll probably never buy Mass Effect, but I would need EA's support to get NBA Jam. I'll probably never buy Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, but I need Capcom's support to get Resident Evil. Of course, these companies can always release certain titles on Switch so there's a chance I get the ones I want. That's a crapshoot though. I can't rely on that so it's just easier if the platform is attractive enough for third parties to think supporting it is worthwhile. I would like to see support be a given rather than something that needs to be considered. Even if I personally don't buy all the games, the expectation and understanding that third party games will be released on a platform I own is comforting and makes any platform stronger. I want that for Switch; I don't think I'm going to get it.

[Soren]

I hope there's a way Nintendo can convince third party devs to support Switch not as a 3rd console option, but as the handheld/true mobile alternative. There's no way hypothetical Switch versions of games like Doom or Resident Evil 7 would look better or maybe on par with their PS4/XB1 brethren, but maybe the idea of taking games like that on the go and still have a decent graphical quality is enticing enough for publishers and developers to allocate resources to Nintendo versions.

[Mop it up]

For me, the main kind of third-party support I'd like to see is the kind it's more likely to get: Japanese developers. Forget Skyrim, the late ports from PS4 I want to see are games like Final Fantasy XV, Dragon Quest Warriors, Tales of Zestiria / Berseria, etc. Those are the current games on the PS4 that interest me.

It's underperforming badly, and Vicarious Visions has been sent to the Destiny mine.

Interesting. I thought the franchise was successful enough that one bad year wouldn't kill it. Or did Superchargers not do well either?

[Stogi]

Third-party games that I'm interested in are the type I never see coming. Games like Viewtiful Joe, Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, or Wonderful 101 you don't expect. These are new IPs that make a console cycle unique.

But then there's games that make a console cycle feel whole; racing games, sports games, and fighting games are my most important genres. Nintendo has their take on each genre, but they don't make NFS, FIFA, or Mortal Kombat. And a console needs those titles in order to complete a spectrum of choice.

So yeah, I care.

[UncleBob]

For me, the main kind of third-party support I'd like to see is the kind it's more likely to get: Japanese developers. Forget Skyrim, the late ports from PS4 I want to see are games like Final Fantasy XV, Dragon Quest Warriors, Tales of Zestiria / Berseria, etc. Those are the current games on the PS4 that interest me.

It's underperforming badly, and Vicarious Visions has been sent to the Destiny mine.

Interesting. I thought the franchise was successful enough that one bad year wouldn't kill it. Or did Superchargers not do well either?

Trap Team did admirable, but hit a few soft spots with players (*lots* of toys, gated content was worse than usual, no PVP, all items didn't get a release in most areas, then traps were totally nerfed to virtually nothing in the next title).

Superchargers did pretty poorly.  Coming off Trap Team, a lot of folks did not want or care for the vehicles, a lack of commitment for future support of vehicles, a really short game, a lot of variants, and short-shipping primary characters really hurt the game overall.

Imaginators is facing all that, is the 6th year of the franchise, and, really folks are tired of TTL.

I am on the fence if Sky7 will happen.

[rygar]

I'm not concerned about particular titles per se, but I'm really hoping for a broader coverage of genres. I'm a little surprised at some of the characterizations of FPS games. I get it when it comes to multiplayer, but the story-campaigns to me offer participatory (popcorn style) cinematic experiences that I can't really get elsewhere.

[Agent-X-]

I'm not sure I understand the rationale from those who don't care about any third party support. I relate with the sentiment that there are very few if any games on PS4 or XB1 that really interest me or would warrant the cost to play, I also understand that I don't follow those platforms closely nor do I bother to really look at those games much. I had plenty of good times, however, playing 360 online with friends, so at least I understand how irrational I would be if I were to say I don't care for third party support. I think I would take more interest in those games if they suddenly shared shelf space next to Mario and Donkey Kong. I'm more likely to download the demo for those games when I'm given a download button than when I'm stuck behind a $300 barrier.


Besides, the very best third party games came about from competing with Nintendo's games. /Fact

[Enner]

The Switch has a shot in being the prime console for most Japanese and indie games.

The Nintendo Switch has a very fine and fragile needle to thread in being a system that essentially combines the libraries of the 3DS, Vita, and Wii U. Separately, those systems' line ups are lacking in some area or aspect. Together, they are an appealing alternative or compliment the PS4 and XB1 (I'm running on the assumption that even the cheapest, capable gaming PC is a significantly more daunting undertaking than the PS4 and XB1 for many people.).

Nintendo can mess up threading this needle in a dozen different (and very Nintendo-like) ways, but it is their best shot (IMO) and one that is all their's to aim for.

[ThePerm]

I wonder what tools nVidia will provide to make it easy to port Android games over? One thing I was reading about it was it doesn't use mobile shaders like other mobile consoles. They suck, thank goodness.

When I was working on my Eternal Darkness homage moving things over to Ouya sucked because of the lighting and shader changes.

[Mop it up]

Trap Team did admirable, but hit a few soft spots with players (*lots* of toys, gated content was worse than usual, no PVP, all items didn't get a release in most areas, then traps were totally nerfed to virtually nothing in the next title).

Superchargers did pretty poorly.  Coming off Trap Team, a lot of folks did not want or care for the vehicles, a lack of commitment for future support of vehicles, a really short game, a lot of variants, and short-shipping primary characters really hurt the game overall.

Imaginators is facing all that, is the 6th year of the franchise, and, really folks are tired of TTL.

I am on the fence if Sky7 will happen.

Ah, I didn't hear about those complaints, but it makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like they really tried to monetise the series more than I realised. It seemed like the starter packs were still selling out around the holidays, though I don't know how many were produced, nor how many figures and stuff were selling.

It's a shame they're running it into the ground (though not surprising since it's Activision). I've recently gotten into the series meself and they are fun games in their own right.

[Evan_B]

As I'm sure many have noted, the third party complaints already seem to be emerging about the Switch. So I'm just going to assume this will be the standard Nintendo affair with the potential to get Vita games and maybe some 3DS coverage, although the system better have variable pricing if that's the case.

[ThePerm]

What third parties are complaining?

[Agent-X-]

I see nothing on my radar.


There was a little noise regarding a former Ubisoft graphics developer commenting on the supposed "leaked specs" but he's not in "the know" and doesn't even claim to be in "the know." His only speculation is that based on the specs we've all heard about, he doesn't think straight ports from the PS4 will be a thing and that the Switch's prospects of third-party support are not looking good since the 360 already saw its last batch of big releases.


Take it with a grain of salt. Nvidia has gone on the record as saying straight ports from current generation consoles will be easy.

[ThePerm]

Apparently, Vulkan is a lot more powerful on weaker hardware than competing API libraries. The only thing I see holding back Switch is the rumored RAM. Those are rumored though. If it's 8GB this will be a Super Nintendo generation, if it is 4GB this will be a Wii generation. As far as third party goes. That is not accounting for possible future upgradability.

[Kairon]

Dang, I have absolutely ZERO hope that this will be 8 GB. Maybe a Switch "Pro" in about two years? But not right now anyways.

[ThePerm]

The thing about the Wii was it was really different and had a lot of support early on. But eventually the lack of  power became a problem. It was a decent generation generally, though I preferred Gamecube and Wii U.

If I were Nintendo here is what I would do. I would release the regular SKU for $200-250 and then have a more powerful and more expensive SKU for $350-400. 2 years later I create an even more powerful SKU and lower the price of the original sku to $150, the second to the regulars price range and then the new one to the second more powerful ones old price range. This KILLS the competition's plans and also brings games over that need powerful hardware.

I look at a game like Doom(4), and while I wasn't too jazzed about it, it is a graphical powerhouse and a benchmark. PS4 and XboxOne have this game, but I don't see idSoftware moving the game to switch if it only has 4GB of RAM. Unless nVidia money hats them. And I don't necessarily mean it has to be that game specifically. It's just do third parties want to take any time or effort to port games anymore? However, I have to say: If we do see Doom, that means we're getting everything.

[Soren]

However, I have to say: If we do see Doom, that means we're getting everything.

I would say we won't be getting everything. There's just the potential to get everything. Some companies just won't care to support Switch.

[ThePerm]

Well Doom would be an example of a skittish developer jumping on board. If a skittish developer jumps on board, then likely others will too. I may be over superlative in that regard, but Doom is like a canary in a coal mine. Or a cockroach in a cheese factory? Having support from id is a good indicator of overall healthy third party support.