Topic: Run the Series 1: 2D (Side-scrolling) Mario Platformers.

[Khushrenada]

Hello fellow NWR residents. 

This is an idea I've had brewing in my head for awhile. There are a lot of franchises out there in the world of gaming. At first, it might be easy to keep up with a series when there are only 2 or 3 games in it. But as years and decades go by and more sequels are released, it can be harder to keep up to date with a series. From past posts, I am sometimes surprised at what games users have played or missed in a franchise and it's made me curious about the gaming habits other people here have.

As such, I thought I'd find out more information by creating a series of threads designed to look at different franchises and find out more information about what series players here like. What franchises do people still find important to keep up with and what series have they let lapse or play infrequently? What are the franchises people haven't even touched or have fully completed? Which games are the most common shared experience in a series and which ones are the least?

To that end, I've created a poll and would have one for each thread done in this series. The poll lists all the games considered as franchise entries although if there is debate about whether an entry should be included or excluded, it can be updated accordingly. When I mean beat, it just refers to completing the main quest or storyline and seeing the credits. Not if you've completed every other side quest or mission. If you want to provide more information about what your level of completion is on games, feel free to post about it.

For that matter, feel free to give your thoughts on the series. Why you play it, why you don't, what's your favorite entry, least favorite entry, how you'd rank the entry in the series, what you'd like to see, what you don't want to see, etc. You know the drill. 

To launch this idea, I thought it would be best to start with the good old 2D Mario platformers spanning over 30 years of gaming which I'm sure we've all had some experience with. But how well have you run the series? 

[Khushrenada]

The Poll is up. I think I've remembered every game in the series or is considered a true entry of the series.

I decided to add a couple options for those who have completed everything in the series and those who haven't played or finished a game in the series.

For myself, the only game I have yet to finish is Luigi U. I bought it last year and played through the first two worlds after popping in the disc to test and make sure it worked. But I then popped it out to get back to playing a different game and haven't gotten back to it. However, I did like it a lot from just those first two worlds compared to NSMBU. NSMBU really didn't grab or hook my until I was well into World 5. So, for Luigi U to do that from the beginning makes think I'd end up liking it more than the original game it is based on.

When I finally complete Luigi U, then I can uncheck all the other games in the series and just check off the fully completed box as I've fully completed all other 2D Mario games at one time or another. The only technicality would be that I didn't finish pursuing the 1,000,000 coin collection of NSMB2 but I just got tired of that coin rush style of play.

[MagicCow64]

I've beat everything but Lost Levels and NSMB2. Played everything but NSMB2. But I kind of think those two games don't count.

[rygar]

Just the original for me. I don't know if it's probable since the originals are all on the VC, but I've been waiting to play SMB:LL, SMB2, and SMB3 in case SMB: All Stars is ported to the New 3DS. I bought them, but then I heard about SMB:AS, so now I kind of want to wait in case that's one of the surprise SNES drops. I actually bought SMB Deluxe because I thought that's what people were referring to when describing SMB: AS, lol. I bought SMB World and played around with it a little bit, but not yet in earnest.

[Khushrenada]

I've beat everything but Lost Levels and NSMB2. Played everything but NSMB2. But I kind of think those two games don't count.

NSMB2 definitely counts. It might encourage coin collecting more than other Mario games but, even if you ignore that, it's still traditional Mario platforming and levels. The game is built on normal Mario gameplay with coin rush and collecting thrown on top of it.

If Luigi U counts, then Lost Levels counts as well since I sort of see some similarities between the two. Direct sequels to a game reusing assets from the first game but putting a twist on the levels in them to make a much tougher challenge.


Looking at the poll, I see there are more people voting than commenting. Aw. Hopefully we'll get more insight into these votes and people will post about them later.

[NWR_insanolord]

I've beaten Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario Land 1 and 2, Super Mario World, New Super Mario Bros., and New Super Mario Bros. U. My favorite of all the games listed is actually New Super Luigi U, but I've still got a couple levels left to go in that.

[azeke]

I will argue that Super Mario Maker should belong in this discussion.

[Khushrenada]

I will argue that Super Mario Maker should belong in this discussion.

That's an interesting choice. The problem with Mario is the amount of different games he's in and how you would classify what could or should be part of a series or it's own thing. There's some obvious stuff like Mario Kart and Mario Party being its own brand. But what about Mario Golf or Tennis or Baseball? Would you lump them all into a Mario Sports series and include all Mario Sport offshoots like basketball and Sports Mix or is every sport it's own series? If so, then what about the sports games that only have one title to them like basketball? A single game does not make a series. Is there a certain number of sequels a game has to have to be considered a series of its own? It's going to be an imperfect system but what constitutes a series? What would be all the Mario Series? Should 2D games be separated from 3D when they are both platformers and all about getting from one point to another?

In my mind, I would see Mario Titles divided as the following:

2D Mario
3D Mario
Mario Kart
Mario Party
Mario Sports (Yes, I'd stick all sports titles here even if Golf and Tennis have like 4 or so entries each)
Mario & Luigi Series
Paper Mario Series
Mario Oddities (The games that don't really fit anywhere else.)

Although it would be nice to make an umbrella Mario RPG category, the problem is that the Paper Mario Series has begun to drift away from it's RPG beginnings that I think it needs to be classified as its own thing. Yet, that leaves Super Mario RPG in a weird spot because it isn't a part of either of those series although both M&L and Paper Mario took elements from that game into their beginnings. These days M&L is probably the series it should belong to or be classified with but I think I'd put it in the Oddities file since it has no direct sequel and featured a lot of characters that haven't appeared in anything else.

The Oddities section would include such things as Mario Paint, Mario is Missing, Mario's Time Machine, Mario Bros., Mario Clash, etc. It's where I would slot Super Mario Maker because to me, the focus of the game is about creating levels. Although one can test and play many 2D levels from other contributors, it's different from the regular 2D games in that the shared experienced can vary greatly for each user. All the games listed in the poll have a set number of levels which are in the same order and arrangement for any person who buys that game. The levels are being tweaked or removed and replaced with different ones so that people unable to play the same thing as someone else may or did play. There's a story no matter how bare bones it may be to connect you from the beginning of the game to the end. To my knowledge, having not played Mario Maker, I don't think you can create warps in the levels to transport you from one world to the next or to a later level to skip others that were along the way. I don't think you can create Boss Battles which deviate a bit from norm of going from one end of the level to the next. There are certain little elements like that which I think differentiate Mario Maker from being a part of the 2D series but that's just my take on it.

[azeke]

the focus of the game is about creating levels

Overwhelming majority of players never touch editor past mandatory tutorial and just play levels.

I don't think you can create warps in the levels to transport you from one world to the next or to a later level to skip others that were along the way

This is no different from how i play 2d Mario, because an idea of warping in these games is contradictory to the entire goal to me. Why would i take some kind warp pipe or whistle or whatever it is TO PLAY LESS of a game?..

I payed for X levels of Mario, and i am going to play X levels all the way through, goddammit.

I don't think you can create Boss Battles

You can tho.

I am using duck principle here.

Super Mario Maker plays like 2d Mario, it walks, runs, jumps, swims and quacks like 2d Mario.

Hence it is 2d Mario.

[NWR_insanolord]

What would constitute "beating" Super Mario Maker, though? There is an effectively endless supply of levels out there, so there's no way to complete it.

[nickmitch]

What do you mean? You just get to the ending.  I played through to the ending like twice now.

[Luigi Dude]

 

Looks like I'm the only person so far to beat all of them.  2D platformers are my favorite genre and Mario is easily the best series in that genre so 2D Mario's are basically gaming essentials to me.  Of course I didn't play NSMB 2 until last summer so I shouldn't exactly brag since if this thread was made a year ago I would have been one game short. :

Anyway, Bros 3 would be my overall favorite still just because of the insane amount of variety in level design combined with the shorter, but more action oriented gameplay in each level.  This is why New Super Luigi U is literally inches behind it at number 2 because it successfully recreates almost everything that made Bros 3 perfect to me.  The only thing separating the both of them to me is Bros 3 has slightly more variety in it's levels, including things like the maze levels in World 7 which Luigi U doesn't really have.  It's the variety of Bros 3 that still makes it the ultimate thrill ride in 2D gaming even after all these years.

Overall I'd rank the 2D Mario's like this.

1.  Super Mario Bros 3
2.  New Super Luigi U
3.  New Super Mario Bros U
4.  New Super Mario Bros Wii
5.  New Super Mario Bros DS
6.  Super Mario World
7.  Super Mario Bros 2 Japan (Lost Levels)
8.  Super Mario Land 2
9.  New Super Mario Bros 2
10.  Super Mario Bros
11.  Super Mario Bros 2 USA
12.  Super Mario Land

[azeke]

What would constitute "beating" Super Mario Maker, though? There is an effectively endless supply of levels out there, so there's no way to complete it.

You "beat" the game when you're done and satisfied with it according to your personal goals.

Completion of other 2d Mario games (and many other Nintendo games) is just as vague and can potentially last you much longer time than for other people who are taking shorter routes than your principles allow you.

You can beat Mario World or go out and look for Star World levels.

You can use warps in SMB3 or actually complete every single level in the game one after another.

You can "beat" any of the NSMB games or "beat beat" it by finding all coins, unlocking special world(-s) and beating them all as well.

Set limit that denotes "completion of the game" is always ultimately up to you.

I never subscribed to the 80s and 90s idea that game's worth is only determined by beating it.

Being naive me, i always thought that one plays the game to actually enjoy second-to-second gameplay and if game is deep enough and allows me to continue past some artificial border than other people would consider the end -- it is not my problem because i WILL take it further for as long i am still enjoying myself.

[NWR_insanolord]

I only brought it up because the question Khush asked in the poll is which games people have beaten. You're right that there are varying degrees of beating most of these games, and it's largely up to the player, but Super Mario Maker is quite a bit more ambiguous than any of the others.

[Spak-Spang]

Super Mario World 2 Yoshi's Island should be considered main series and since it is one of my favorite Mario games I am offended it is not on the list.

[MagicCow64]

New Super Mario Bros. U and Wii are absolutely top-notch platformers (though I kind of hate DS), but there is deep lack embedded somewhere in them that I think a lot of people kind of sense when they complain about the games for nebulous reasons. I'm not huge on World mechanically, but at the same time I think it got its hooks deepest into me with the layered secrets, transformations to previous levels, and hell, even the super hidden moons.

NBSMB is likely played out for the time being and I don't expect to see another entry for some time, but when they do return to 2D my dream is a marriage of the mechanical excellence of NSMBU and discovery texture of World. Something about the current "find three coins in each level, unlock secret levels in generic star world post-game" feels like eating ice cream out of the freezer instead of from a truck.

[NWR_insanolord]

The DS game plays it too safe. It's understandable, given that it was the first 2D Mario game in 15 years, but compared to its successors it just feels bland now. With the Wii U game it finally felt like they were moving forward after rehashing the old games for a while, and New Super Luigi U takes that to another level. I agree that they're probably done with the NSMB games for a while, but it's kind of a shame that they'll cut out on them just as they're starting to really get interesting.

[ClexYoshi]

I never bothered with New Super Mario Bros. 2


Also kinda a shame that Yoshi's Island or Wario Land don't count if New Super Luigi U counts.



... you know what game I kinda miss? Super Princess Peach.

[Luigi Dude]

I agree that they're probably done with the NSMB games for a while, but it's kind of a shame that they'll cut out on them just as they're starting to really get interesting.

Even though they're probably done with the name NSMB, the core gameplay to the next 2D Mario will more then likely still be an evolution of what they were doing in NSMB U and Luigi anyway so I wouldn't really worry too much.  The biggest difference I see happening for the next 2D Mario they'll probably put more effort into the graphics and music this time, as well as change up the different world themes as well. 

So basically the next 2D Mario platformer will probably do to this series what Mario Kart 8 did for that series.  Keeping the core gameplay with a few new adjustments, but giving the game a bigger budget so they look and sound like the Nintendo top sellers they really are.

[Khushrenada]

Well, right now from the poll, I am really surprised at how low the numbers are for players of NSMB2. I figured that with most series, you'll see the first few games having the most amount of people who have played them and then the number gets lower as the sequels continue but that game has really been ignored despite being on a system that has far outsold the Wii U and has a larger install base, was released before NSMBU and is the only 2D Mario platformer on the 3DS.

Ian Sane often complains on the forums about Nintendo releasing Wii U games that were the same as a 3DS game that was made before them thus cutting into the Wii U game sales and not providing an incentive to get a Wii U but it seems a greater forum percentage waited for the Wii U game in this case and skipped the 3DS version. Of course, that number could change over time as more people potentially check in on the forums and vote. It's just not what I expected to see so I find it surprising.

[Luigi Dude]

Well, right now from the poll, I am really surprised at how low the numbers are for players of NSMB2. I figured that with most series, you'll see the first few games having the most amount of people who have played them and then the number gets lower as the sequels continue but that game has really been ignored despite being on a system that has far outsold the Wii U and has a larger install base, was released before NSMBU and is the only 2D Mario platformer on the 3DS.

Ian Sane often complains on the forums about Nintendo releasing Wii U games that were the same as a 3DS game that was made before them thus cutting into the Wii U game sales and not providing an incentive to get a Wii U but it seems a greater forum percentage waited for the Wii U game in this case and skipped the 3DS version. Of course, that number could change over time as more people potentially check in on the forums and vote. It's just not what I expected to see so I find it surprising.

In this case it isn't too surprising.  The forum Nintendo fans know more about the games then the overall casual audience and Nintendo fans on forums like this know that NSMB U was the game made by the main NSMB team that did NSMB DS and Wii, and had 3 years to work on it as well.  In comparison NSMB 2 was rushed and outsourced to a team of newcomers in about a year because Nintendo freaked out about the 3DS terrible post launch sales and wanted a 2D Mario to be released as soon as possible.

This is why I didn't play NSMB 2 until last Summer and even after finally playing it, the game confirmed my fears, it really was a rushed lower quality product.  The level design of NSMB 2 is a huge step down from both NSMB Wii and U.  Yeah there's a focus on coin collecting but even that is pretty pointless to me since the only reward you get for those 1 million coins is a worthless gold statue of Mario on the title screen.  Now it's still a decent game because the Mario formula is still a solid base, but to me, NSMB 2 doesn't do much to go beyond that and it's big feature the coin rush is not implemented very well in a way that makes me want to keep playing.

And because of statements like what I've made that are shared by quite a few on the internet, is what makes people on forums more likely to play NSMB U before playing NSMB2 and the reason they're dragging their feet on that one.  In comparison, the general audience just see Mario on the box at stores and see's that NSMB 2 is cheaper and on a less expensive system and buy that without realizing they're missing out on the much better 2D Mario experience on the Wii U, which is why outside of the internet NSMB 2 has sold over 10 million while NSMB U only 5 million and the 3DS has a much bigger userbase then the Wii U.

[Mop it up]

This is a good idea for a poll series, nice job. I'm fine with the list as is, I don't think any other games should be added to it.

Mario is my fave franchise so of course I've played and completed all of these. It may be clichéd that the original Super Mario Bros. was my first game back in 1989, but they really do make for good starter games.

Ranking the series can be tough for me and at least some positions would probably change based on when you asked me, but if I had to, I would probably order them like this:

12. Super Mario Bros. 2j (Lost Levels)
11. Super Mario Land
10. Super Mario Bros.
9. New Super Mario Bros. 2
8. New Super Luigi U
7. New Super Mario Bros.
6. Super Mario Land 2
5. New Super Mario Bros. U
4. Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA)
3. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
2. Super Mario World
1. Super Mario Bros. 3

[NWR_insanolord]

I bought New Super Mario Bros. 2 when it came out, but despite generally liking it I just never felt compelled to finish it. Same with the Wii game.

Also kinda a shame that Yoshi's Island or Wario Land don't count if New Super Luigi U counts.

Both those series involve major gameplay changes. New Super Luigi U just tweaks the physics a bit.

[Mop it up]

Despite the lower ranking, I was actually crazy enough to go for the 9,999,999 coins in NSMB2. I thought Coin Rush was a great idea even though it wasn't well implemented, and would have fit better in a Wario game.

[Louieturkey]

Despite the lower ranking, I was actually crazy enough to go for the 9,999,999 coins in NSMB2. I thought Coin Rush was a great idea even though it wasn't well implemented, and would have fit better in a Wario game.

Now that would have been cool.  Beat the game all the way through as Mario and it unlocks a second quest as Wario to do the coin rush part.