Topic: Star Fox: Zero Interest On This Forum

[Caterkiller]

Actually I don't know that for sure but I couldn't find a Star Fox Zero topic all its own.

I'm not good at those big fancy first posts and I'm not going to even try. Actually scratch that, I bet I could make a killer one but aint no body got time for that. Instead here are my impressions from Wondercon this passed weekend.

So I got to play Star Fox Zero on Sunday. As you read my impressions keep in mind I am a HUGE Star Fox fan but I hated Command, hated Adventures, and boy did I hate Assault. I didn't even enjoy Assaults first stage or multiplayer which all reviews seemed to rave about. Didn't fool me at all.

1) Motion Control.
The Nintendo Rep told me I can recenter the reticle at anytime with Y or pressing on the left stick. During the rail segments I found that I didn't need to use the motion too much and mostly played it like classing Star Fox. One thing I realized after playing is that almost every preview and trailer makes the game look particularly boring because no one is trying to dodge anything. Has anyone else noticed this? I watched others play as well and realized they are so focused on trying to aim with the motion they can barely focus on moving the ship. When I played the game, I made it look as fun and as frantic as you remember Star Fox 64 to be. I was juking out enemies, constantly barrel rolling and whipping around trying not to get lit up. Occasionally I would fly away from the enemies to grab items while targeting towards the enemies to hit 2 birds with 1 stone, then I would snap the targeting reticle back into place for the classic feel.

During the boss segments is when the motion and first person view become more mandatory. Gameplay wise I didn't buy into it until I actually played it. I was using the Land Master which felt as great as you remember and with the screen zoomed out, I could keep an eye on the dangerous environment and drive around the giant sand worm while still shooting its weak points. I noticed I didn't have to totally wait for its idle phase if I was good enough. Hovering over his giant swinging body, boosting out of the quick sand or barrel rolling away from it's giant claw grab was very fun. It did take a while to get used to though, because I was using the first person view to steer which threw me off way too many times. If I were a little more coordinated I could imagine it would have felt very satisfying. Once I actually did get the hang of it the monster killed me.

The Nintendo Rep told me you can turn the motion off. What he meant by that is you can assign motion to a shoulder button, then when you hold down that button the gyro is activated. I didn't try this method but I think it would be ideal in some cases if you are accidentally using motion when you don't want to.

The Gyro works well, as well as Splatoon, but it is going to take some getting used to thats for sure.

2)All Range Cinematic View.
When this was first shown and up until Sunday I just thought why? It's supposed to be cinematic but to me it just made things look slower and boring, not only that what gameplay purpose did it really serve? I realized that being able to watch the dangerous environments like quick sand or the electro shield while targeting the enemies without having to fave it head on is actually pretty cool gameplay wise. It's a little tough going from the different view points but I can see why it works and it really does add something new to the old SNES/64 formula.

Then I watched someone fight Pigma and he played somewhat like me, actually barrel rolling and trying to out maneuver enemies. Looping around, making sharp turns and u-turning did actually look pretty cinematic when I got to see a full fight from someone who played a little more like Star Fox should be played. Plus with that view point I could see Peppy and the other guys in the back ground blasting away at enemies waaaaaaaaaay off in the distance, so far in fact I wondered if Fox could actually go there himself in real time gameplay. I'm pretty sure you can. With the dynamic view points it really did make things look like it was all on such a grand scale.

3)Voice Acting.
I know people like to give Star Fox 64's acting a hard time but that acting was genuine, when I listen to those lines being delivered it maybe B-movie quality but it sounds downright believable. Star Fox 64 3D was a mess. It was as if the directors pushed the actors to make the lines way too over the top and cheesy as if that was one of the high lights of the original 64. This game doesn't do that however. It's still a B-movie but it once again sounds genuine and while a few lines I feel are off given certain situations, for the most part in the 3 stages I got to see everything sounded just like I would like it to.

4) Visuals.
I love it. The game being rendered in 60fps twice didn't allow this game to be as pretty as it possibly could but I think it looks just great! The mountains, the oceans and the machines look really nice. The characters inside their ships as well as their profiles all look really well done to me. The environments are much more open and varied than 64 thats for sure and the draw distance is pretty huge. Low health shows physical damage all over the arwing, you can see your lasers splash the water from really far away and I'm sure a ton of other little nice details that aren't coming to mind. After my first session with the game I came away absolutely convinced that this is the Star Fox that we've been waiting for since Star Fox 64. Everything about it feels natural and in line with what I expect from Str Fox. Nothing I played feels forced. We'll see about that though, I didn't get to play the Gyro Copter.

I don't want to over hype it but I went from cautiously optimistic to completely sold in a day.
Too bad about no VS multiplayer though.

[ShyGuy]

I'm Rocking Slippy and his creepy uncle as my avatar!

[Luigi Dude]

Most of the Star Fox talk was in the E3 2015 thread, were there was interest in the game as well as the Star Fox related Talkback topics but nobody felt like making a thread on this part of the board until now.

Anyway, the game looked fun to me back at E3 and new footage looks awesome.  Of course that shouldn't be a surprise since like I said back at E3, Nintendo games always improve from their original E3 showings.  And that extra delay from Fall to Spring really payed off as well.  Easily looks like it'll be the true sequel to Star Fox 64 I've wanted for almost 20 years.

[ShyGuy]

Psst, you guys wanna see some deep space action?

[Evan_B]

As someone who has never really been a Star Fox fan, and a Wii U owner that would like the system to have games...

Yeah, I have zero interest in this title.

[Ian Sane]

Having a button to activate the gyro is a pretty good idea.  Too often with motion controls I run into problems where the game thinks I wanted it to do something when I didn't and I guess I moved the controller without intending to.  It's funny that part of the marketing of motion controls was that they were intuitive but for me it was a steep learning curve.  After 20+ years of there being no concerns with moving controllers as I play you're suddenly telling me I have to keep the damn thing still.  Having some sort of button to say "okay I'm in motion control mode now" is an idea that seems incredibly obvious in hindsight.

Still the design approach to this games seems to be "incorporate motion controls and the second screen into the gameplay" and I don't put up with Miyamoto's post-senility infatuation with controller gimmicks anymore.  I would be very interested in a Star Fox game where the intentions are to just make a great Star Fox game and not try to "prove" the validity of controller features that the vast majority of the gaming population doesn't give a **** about.

And here's a weird thing - I'm suspicious of positive opinions about new Star Fox games.  The series has just gone so far off the deep end that the people that are still fans of it seem desperate to have it return to glory so it feels like they're going to cut each new game a lot more slack than they otherwise would to deceive themselves into thinking it's back to being good again.  I call this the Sonic Phenomenon as you'll note that with every new Sonic game that is completely ripped to shreds in reviews that the Sonic fanboys come out of the woodwork and defend it and act like the Sonic game du jour is a return-to-form for the series.  You can't believe a Sonic fan.  They want Sonic to be good again so badly that their opinion is tainted by their hope.  Same with Star Fox fans.  Some day it might be the same with Metroid fans (please NO!)  There is a difference between a good Star Fox game and a Star Fox game that just isn't as terrible as the worst entries in the series but I don't trust a really die hard Star Fox fan to differentiate.

[supermario2k]

Having a button to activate the gyro is a pretty good idea.  Too often with motion controls I run into problems where the game thinks I wanted it to do something when I didn't and I guess I moved the controller without intending to.  It's funny that part of the marketing of motion controls was that they were intuitive but for me it was a steep learning curve.  After 20+ years of there being no concerns with moving controllers as I play you're suddenly telling me I have to keep the damn thing still.  Having some sort of button to say "okay I'm in motion control mode now" is an idea that seems incredibly obvious in hindsight.

Still the design approach to this games seems to be "incorporate motion controls and the second screen into the gameplay" and I don't put up with Miyamoto's post-senility infatuation with controller gimmicks anymore.  I would be very interested in a Star Fox game where the intentions are to just make a great Star Fox game and not try to "prove" the validity of controller features that the vast majority of the gaming population doesn't give a **** about.

And here's a weird thing - I'm suspicious of positive opinions about new Star Fox games.  The series has just gone so far off the deep end that the people that are still fans of it seem desperate to have it return to glory so it feels like they're going to cut each new game a lot more slack than they otherwise would to deceive themselves into thinking it's back to being good again.  I call this the Sonic Phenomenon as you'll note that with every new Sonic game that is completely ripped to shreds in reviews that the Sonic fanboys come out of the woodwork and defend it and act like the Sonic game du jour is a return-to-form for the series.  You can't believe a Sonic fan.  They want Sonic to be good again so badly that their opinion is tainted by their hope.  Same with Star Fox fans.  Some day it might be the same with Metroid fans (please NO!)  There is a difference between a good Star Fox game and a Star Fox game that just isn't as terrible as the worst entries in the series but I don't trust a really die hard Star Fox fan to differentiate.

So what constitutes a "good" Star Fox game? There have only been what, five games in the series? From what I can get reading your post it sounds like you disliked all but maybe one of them? It sounds to me like what you want is a complete remake of the first Star Fox game and nothing else am I right?

There isn't really much to go on so you have only four "true" Star Fox games if you separate Adventures into its own category that leaves a 50-50 split between the "good" and the "bad" except Star Fox 64 was nothing more than an upgraded remake of the SNES game so really there has only been one good Star Fox game by your logic. Damn. So basically all you want is Star Fox 64 remade in HD? I am also curious what makes the other two games "bad" in the first place?



Back on topic: I am very excited for this game, maybe more so than Zelda since we have plenty of Zelda to go around but so little Star Fox.

[Caterkiller]

Well Ian you may question my enthusiasm here but I think I'm right on with my impressions. I honestly went in looking for something to get mad at. With Adventures I don't even really count that, since it's not a true Star Fox gameplay wise. With Assault, I was down on it the very first time I played it because it felt wrong. Not that it just felt different from SF64, it just felt wrong and played wrong and not even the first level had me convinced. I played it up until the end of the story out of curiosity and knew from start to finish it was garbage. I'm pretty sure you can find my impressions from when I was in... high school? Oh god.

With Command I gave it a chance but anyone and everyone knew that no rails missions and forced stylus controls weren't doing that game any favors.

And same with Sonic, I know I got super excited for Heroes and Sonic 4 but I think I'm the only Sonic fan who does not like Colors, Unleashed(day levels) or Generations. I got hyped for the look of Sonic Lost World but when I actually played it, once again it just wasn't right. Sonic needs to feel like Mario, like I'm controlling a 2 legged character, not a mech or a car in Sonic's image.

So yeah, embrace my impressions. Knowing you over the last decade I bet that you would completely eat up the levels I played. Well everything but the boss fights because of the dependance on motion. I just hope the rest of the game holds up to the stages I got to experience.

[Ian Sane]

Having a button to activate the gyro is a pretty good idea.  Too often with motion controls I run into problems where the game thinks I wanted it to do something when I didn't and I guess I moved the controller without intending to.  It's funny that part of the marketing of motion controls was that they were intuitive but for me it was a steep learning curve.  After 20+ years of there being no concerns with moving controllers as I play you're suddenly telling me I have to keep the damn thing still.  Having some sort of button to say "okay I'm in motion control mode now" is an idea that seems incredibly obvious in hindsight.

Still the design approach to this games seems to be "incorporate motion controls and the second screen into the gameplay" and I don't put up with Miyamoto's post-senility infatuation with controller gimmicks anymore.  I would be very interested in a Star Fox game where the intentions are to just make a great Star Fox game and not try to "prove" the validity of controller features that the vast majority of the gaming population doesn't give a **** about.

And here's a weird thing - I'm suspicious of positive opinions about new Star Fox games.  The series has just gone so far off the deep end that the people that are still fans of it seem desperate to have it return to glory so it feels like they're going to cut each new game a lot more slack than they otherwise would to deceive themselves into thinking it's back to being good again.  I call this the Sonic Phenomenon as you'll note that with every new Sonic game that is completely ripped to shreds in reviews that the Sonic fanboys come out of the woodwork and defend it and act like the Sonic game du jour is a return-to-form for the series.  You can't believe a Sonic fan.  They want Sonic to be good again so badly that their opinion is tainted by their hope.  Same with Star Fox fans.  Some day it might be the same with Metroid fans (please NO!)  There is a difference between a good Star Fox game and a Star Fox game that just isn't as terrible as the worst entries in the series but I don't trust a really die hard Star Fox fan to differentiate.

So what constitutes a "good" Star Fox game? There have only been what, five games in the series? From what I can get reading your post it sounds like you disliked all but maybe one of them? It sounds to me like what you want is a complete remake of the first Star Fox game and nothing else am I right?

There isn't really much to go on so you have only four "true" Star Fox games if you separate Adventures into its own category that leaves a 50-50 split between the "good" and the "bad" except Star Fox 64 was nothing more than an upgraded remake of the SNES game so really there has only been one good Star Fox game by your logic. Damn. So basically all you want is Star Fox 64 remade in HD? I am also curious what makes the other two games "bad" in the first place?



Back on topic: I am very excited for this game, maybe more so than Zelda since we have plenty of Zelda to go around but so little Star Fox.

There is some big speculation here on what I think.  I would see the first two Star Fox games as the good ones.  Then they shoehorned Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet (which is a pretty meh game to begin with and not really a proper Star Fox game) and then outsourced Star Fox for Assault and the whole thing went downhill.  On the Gamecube Nintendo treated Star Fox as an afterthought.  I suppose what I would want to see would be where Star Fox would have ended up if Nintendo had continued to treat it as one of their main series and worked on a Cube game themselves.  I would guess we would have gotten something like Rogue Leader.  Okay, so if that happened and you wanted to make a console Star Fox in 2016 what should that be like?  Not just a Star Fox 64 clone but a natural progression of that type of gameplay (like how Star Fox 64 expands on the SNES game's gameplay).

And the problem is that Nintendo and I differ greatly in our attitude towards unconventional controls.  Nintendo has embraced the concept over the last ten years as a way to introduce new ideas into videogames.  I personally think the whole thing is a smokescreen to mask a lack of ideas or a lack of willingness to truly innovate behind novelty concepts that wear out their welcome quickly.  Miyamoto in particular has the idea that if the controls are fun to use then the game is fun but I see controls as pure functionality.  I get no thrill out of controlling a game in an unconventional way, I want the most responsive and flexible scheme to play the game.  So the whole approach here just goes against what I want.  It doesn't matter that it's Star Fox or whatever.  I'm now at the point where if Nintendo is going to go the novelty controls route for a game, I'm not interested.

[Evan_B]

And same with Sonic, I know I got super excited for Heroes and Sonic 4 but I think I'm the only Sonic fan who does not like Colors, Unleashed(day levels) or Generations. I got hyped for the look of Sonic Lost World but when I actually played it, once again it just wasn't right. Sonic needs to feel like Mario, like I'm controlling a 2 legged character, not a mech or a car in Sonic's image.

I hate to derail the thread, but what's wrong with Sonic Colors and Unleashed? I actually felt like Unleashed Wii had some of the best controls in the series, and treated Sonic like he should be treated at hyper-fast speed- which, I suppose, is your issue. However, Colors did a better job at toning down the speed and emphasizing the platforming.

I would say the problem with Star Fox, and the problem with Sonic, is that there really only has been one or two good games in their series and the series has been unable or just flat out refuses to return to the mechanics present in those games. Unfortunately, there is no "better version" of classic Sonic gameplay (though Freedom Planet parallels it closely), but with Star Fox, it has been outclassed by Sin and Punishment in just about every way except free-range mode, where it is then outclassed by Rouge Squadron.

[Mop it up]

I haven't played a Star Fox game before, so naturally I have no real interest in a new one. Maybe if they finally offered real co-op...

[Ian Sane]

I haven't played a Star Fox game before, so naturally I have no real interest in a new one. Maybe if they finally offered real co-op...

Really?  Didn't you collect every N64 game released in North America?  How have you been able to sit on Star Fox 64?  Or am I thinking of someone else?

[NWR_insanolord]

I haven't played a Star Fox game before, so naturally I have no real interest in a new one. Maybe if they finally offered real co-op...

I'm pretty sure I've told you to play Star Fox 64 every time you've said this.

[Mop it up]

I haven't played a Star Fox game before, so naturally I have no real interest in a new one. Maybe if they finally offered real co-op...

Really?  Didn't you collect every N64 game released in North America?  How have you been able to sit on Star Fox 64?  Or am I thinking of someone else?

I didn't say I didn't own any Star Fox games, just haven't played them. I don't have Assault, but I own all the others, including the 3DS version of 64. I can't play everything, so something has to fall through the cracks, which usually ends up being the games that appear less interesting / more iffy.

I'm a bit surprised you remembered this.

[Dim]

I'm glad to see that the reception to Star Fox: Zero during previews has become increasingly positive, and - as all those extremely thorough GameXplain videos show - it has definitely improved visually from its underwhelming debut at E3 last year.

However, I'm still not convinced. I might get crucified for this (way to start off coming to this forum, haha), but I don't like Star Fox 64 anywhere near as much as most people seem to. Which is weird, because I feel I have a lot of affection for Star Fox generally, and consider it one of my favourite B-tier franchises. I didn't play 64 at the time of it's release (I would have been, what, two years old!?), but did manage to pick up a cheap copy when I was about ten - but it did nothing for me. When I bought Assault, however, I fell in love - yes, it's been about a decade since I've played it, and I can admit that the ground-based levels aren't very interesting, but I loved the (all-too-few) on-rail sections and the whole visual spectacle of it all.

I later played Adventures and Command - both of which I enjoy to a certain degree on their own merits - and even re-played 64; in fact, only a few days ago I picked up 64 3D and played through all of the levels again, just to see if I feel more favourable towards it after all these years. I don't. I think it's good enough, but its Arwing combat isn't as good as that in Assault, and it's nowhere near as good as some other third-person 3D on-rail shooters, like Sin & Punishment.

From everything I've seen, Star Fox: Zero seems a lot like Star Fox 64-2 - and I don't want that.

(Also, can I just saw that I really don't like the voice acting in Star Fox 64 (and now Zero)? I hate to talk about 'characterisation' in Star Fox games - because, I mean, jeez, they're STAR FOX games - but I really preferred the characterisation - gah - of Fox and everyone else in Assault. I have a lot of fond memories of Assault. I really liked its multiplayer, too).

[Triforce Hermit]

Got my copy pre-ordered and excited to pick it up this Friday. The game looks fantastic and I'm extremely hyped for it. It looks like anything I ever hoped for in a sequel to Starfox 64.

[Order.RSS]

Oh I never even realised some people were down on the visuals. It looks great to me, very excited to pick both it and Star Fox Guard up as soon as they release. But maybe I'm not the most discerning fan here, only played Star Fox 64 which I quite enjoyed and Star Fox Adventures which - barring a few excruciating obstacles - I was really hyped on too.
Heck, Adventures' first few worlds still look gorgeous to me.

The only thing I hope will be easier in Zero than 64 is switching between paths. In 64 it was really easy to completely miss an opportunity to pursue another branch of the story, I don't think I ever even saw all the levels on the left path.

[BranDonk Kong]

The game has been getting a lot of praise. Screen shots are bland, and it has framerate issues, but overall the reactions I've seen have been pretty positive. Famitsu gave it 9/9/8/9.

[Evan_B]

So it's not as good as Final Fantasy XIII, then? How disappointing.

[BranDonk Kong]

And now it's getting pretty terrible reviews.

[Evan_B]

In other words, it's a typical Star Fox title? How disappointing.

[TOPHATANT123]

And now it's getting pretty terrible reviews.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1209814&page=1

Ehh I'd say the majority of reviews tend towards positive.

[Ian Sane]

Right now on GameRankings it's average is at 71.69% which is not completely terrible but is a pretty middling review score.  It suggests a mediocre title and certainly not the return-to-form for the series that was hoped for.  Oddly enough the current average for Star Fox Guard is higher!  Now it has like half the reviews so it's not quite comparing apples to apples but it's still funny that that the bonus game tossed in for free has the better score.

[Enner]

Star Fox Guard getting the better score is not unexpected when Star Fox Zero is asking you to be the pilot and the gunner of an attack helicopter, jobs that are separated for two people in real life.

[Ian Sane]

You ever have someone try to set you up on a blind date and when you ask what she looks like they give you all sorts of vague pseudo-compliments about specific features or shift the conversation to her personality but will not just outright say "yeah, she's a real babe" because they can't?  That's what Star Fox Zero reviews are reading like to me in regards to the controls.  I'm asking "are they good?" and I'm getting lots of "there's a learning curve but they work pretty well".  No one is saying "these controls are great!" because they can't, because the controls aren't.

When I was 18 I would have been much more willing to work with an odd control scheme to find a hidden gem but I don't have the patience for that now.  And I certainly don't with motion controls after fighting with them during the Wii generation.  The games reviewers said had good motion controls didn't control all that well in my eyes, let alone the ones where I'm told I have to approach with an open mind.  And there are lots of games out there across lots of platforms and for an adult in his 30s I don't have the time I had to play 15 years ago.  I have to prioritize my gaming time so "learn the controls" doesn't seem like the best use of my free time when there are all these other games, including many made by Nintendo, where I just pick up the controller and figure it out in a minute because it's all using standard conventions.

It's all very ironic because Nintendo touted motion controls as more intuitive than buttons when they launched the Wii and yet here they're increasing the learning curve with less intuitive controls.  "You'll learn to like them" sure as hell wasn't the original marketing of motion controls and suggests that Nintendo missed the plot with these gimmick controls at some point.  I find it very odd though that they're doing that NOW towards the end of the Wii U's life when it's no secret that the Gamepad didn't take off and "proving" the concept at this point is going to have no effect on the Wii U's fate whatsoever.  Though perhaps they're well aware that this concept is on its last legs and this is the last chance to incorporate a control scheme like this in a game.  Miyamoto in particular comes across a true believer in "innovative" controls and may have wanted to see some of these ideas make it into a full game.