Topic: Paper Mario: Color Splash

[Khushrenada]

In last year's E3 predictions / hopes, I had thought that the time was right for a new Paper Mario game but nothing was announced although there was M&L: Paper Jam which seemed to be it for Paper Mario.

Well, turns out there was a Paper Mario game in the works. However, it seems the series may be trying to follow the Super Paper Mario design in that it is referred to as Action Adventure genre and not an RPG although you can see RPG type elements in it.

So, once again, Nintendo denies us the Paper Mario experience we want just like I'm trying to deny Evan_B's Paper Mario from becoming the go-to thread for this game.

More details to come as I re-watch the trailer.

[Evan_B]

DAMN YOU KHUSH


So that aside, after watching the trailer, I'm once again impressed by the graphics and papercraft representation (and I hope that mechanics like points, soggy, and crumpled return as gameplay folds), however I do see the inclusion of FUCKING ITEMS AS FUCKING COMBAT MOVES which makes me so irritated, though hopefully (ha ha) Intelligent Systems heard the backlash towards the balancing of those aspects in Sticker Star.


I'll need to see more impressions and more footage, as that was not enough. The game looks absolutely gorgeous, but that's not enough for me.

[Khushrenada]

Like a paper cut, I am a source of great pain. 

Wait, what? 


Anyways, on to picture 1.



Here we can see that there is a world map that looks more like a platformer map where one goes level to level instead of an RPG type map.

Of interest, we see in the bottom left that there is an HP count for Mario and the trailer shows he will engage in card type battles. In the bottom left, there is a coin tracker but what coins do is a mystery. The trailer showed Mario collecting some coins from filling in a blank color spot which we'll get too in the next picture. Are coins for extra lives or for gear or other helpful tools? The answer is murky right now.

In the top left corner is a gauge of different paint levels. In this game, Paper Mario has a paint hammer. This most likely ties into that weapon. In the center where Mario is standing on the Ruddy Road marker there is the Ruddy Road text under him and that mentions that Ruddy Road has 0% of its colorless spots restored. Right now, from the trailer, it appears the main focus of the game is to go to these different levels and restore all their colorless spots.

[Khushrenada]

This brings us to picture 2.



In this picture, we get a glimpse of the opening level and one can see numerous white spots. They are on the ground and on buildings. Most are of an ink splat variety but there is a blank Toad outline that one can see on the ground and one of the flowers to the right is blank. With the paint hammer, the player will fill in these spots. But is that the only goal of each level? To fill in blank spots? From the info we have from the trailer so far, it looks like it.

[Khushrenada]

If you want to see the trailer for the game from the Direct, here's a link:

EDIT: Updated the video with one showing all three trailers from the different directs.

[Soren]

So what's up with Nintendo reusing the "oh no the world lost its color, we have to bring it back again!" plot point for the second straight year?

[TOPHATANT123]

It's not quite what Evan wanted but I trust that it will still be enjoyable.
https://youtu.be/WTXWfbGRqZM?t=13m35s
The European trailer has an additional scene that was just way too violent to be shown pre-water shed in the US.

[Evan_B]

Something important to note: When "painting" colorless cards (as far as I can see, there are variations) AND when coloring in colorless environments the paint meters fall (in the case of the orange house, both red and yellow fall). This seems like a way of balancing out entering levels and which enemies you try to attack and avoid, but the real tricky aspect is making sure the mechanic isn't easily replenished. Like, if going back the main hub to refill on paint is the only balancing act they've done, they really haven't learned their lesson.

Oh, and what's the new partner's name going to be? Ket Buh?

[Khushrenada]

Some other points from the trailer:

The opening bit of arriving on Prism Island by boat and the look of the first level / main hub? gives me a Rogueport vibe. Maybe this was started as an HD Thousand Year Door and became this instead. I'm just saying that to get Evan_B even more worked up. Ha ha ha!

We see Mario arrive with Peach and Toad but they disappear after that. No hints of any helpers following Paper Mario in the trailer. Looks like another solo adventure. No sign of Bowser in the trailer. Most likely, he's the villain behind this and will probably capture Peach at a later point in the game. Although Peach does pop up a bit in the trailer in the main hub type area so maybe we'll get a surprise on this for once. No sign of Luigi either.

Although I thought about doing another picture capture of it, the main hub shows a circle surrounded by smaller circles of the primary and secondary colors of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple. In picture 1, the top left only showed primary color bars of red, yellow and blue. However, he can be seen splashing in other colors besides those. However, you'll notice that the bars will drain of 2 colors needed to mix to create orange or purple. Colors appear to be filled in automatically and one doesn't have to solve what the right colors are when filling in blank spots.

Going back to the large circle with the smaller circles around it, is this some kind of endgame goal like opening the Thousand Year Door and the large circle will open up or is it something else?

The trailer shows a giant fan blowing at enemies which is reminiscent of Sticker Star and its giant fan. Is the card battle system a better, tweaked system of the sticker battle system or its own brand new thing? Could it be a Baten Kaitos card type battle system? The card battle system seems to require you to fill in the colors of battle cards you collect. If you run out of a paint color, does this mean you are hooped or does the battle system allow traditional button attacks along with card attacks?

[Evan_B]

Thanks for the bait.

We touched on the same things, though I think the battle system will likely use the "one-and-done" aspect of Sticker Star's gameplay though sweet jebas a Deck-based system would make combat (and managing color resources) SO. MUCH. BETTER. Even crafting decks and being able to select them before going into levels would make this game ten million times better.

But, I highly doubt that's the case because Intelligent Systems is stupid.

[Khushrenada]

It's not quite what Evan wanted but I trust that it will still be enjoyable.
https://youtu.be/WTXWfbGRqZM?t=13m35s
The European trailer has an additional scene that was just way too violent to be shown pre-water shed in the US.

Thanks for that, TOPHATANT123. Although most is the same, there are a couple different bits of info from that trailer. For one thing, you can see that main circle hub a little more and there is clearly something to be unlocked from the center of it. The footage of a shyguy stealing color is interesting and further suggests that Bowser has his minions out doing this. As for the battle system, the trailer shows the beginning of it and Paper Mario holding up some cards and looking at them suggesting the battle system is only done by cards and not with any regular button attacks.

At this point, the game is looking more like another Sticker Star although I've yet to play that game to say for sure.

[Evan_B]

I don't know about that- selecting cards (or even using colorless cards) may require touchscreen input but so did Sticker Star, and there were still button inputs in that game (the animations for action commands, by the way, were top-notch in Sticker Star).

[Khushrenada]

Thanks for the bait.

We touched on the same things, though I think the battle system will likely use the "one-and-done" aspect of Sticker Star's gameplay though sweet jebas a Deck-based system would make combat (and managing color resources) SO. MUCH. BETTER. Even crafting decks and being able to select them before going into levels would make this game ten million times better.

But, I highly doubt that's the case because Intelligent Systems is stupid.

We are both on the same wavelength apparently as you keep beating me to the punch on the points I'm posting about. I will add that I think you are right about Mario having a helper which looks like that floating bucket. I thought it was just a Prism Island resident from the first trailer but the watching the European trailer, it struck me that it looks like Mario's helper for this game.

As for the battle system, the trailer hasn't given enough footage to say for certain. The European version shows it a bit more but not enough for a conclusive answer. I have a feeling the special attack would be one and done but normal attack cards may be re-usable or stocked. You can see one moment where there are a bunch of cards on the gamepad grouped by abilities such as hammer and mushrooms most likely for attack and items. All the trailer shows is one card getting color and being used but not what happens to the card after. But since we currently have the Sticker Star precedent, I'd agree that they are all most likely one and done.

[Ian Sane]

This is definitely a wait-and-see title.  If it isn't obvious that it's an RPG then it probably isn't.  If Nintendo was savvy enough to know to turn this back into RPG they would also savvy enough to make a big deal about that.  Great graphics though.  The game certainly looks inviting.

[Khushrenada]

You think so? I'm not as sold on the graphics / art direction as you are. It looks off to me. Almost like a combination of the Kirby and the Rainbow Curse claymation look mixed with the Paper Mario paper look. As I said in the OP, Bill introduced it as an action-adventure game and not an RPG. I suppose this could be a sign that Nintendo thinks having 2 Mario RPG series is redundant and has given the RPG designation to Mario & Luigi while Paper Mario is being reformatted into an RPG/Action-Adventure game hybrid.

[Evan_B]

Well, they called it an "action-adventure" during the direct, which is exactly how I would describe Sticker Star.

I saw that deck structuring in the trailer as well- while I think it would be cool to have cards shuffled at the start of the match and dealt each turn (with a draw every turn as well), that seems more RPG-like, which they aren't promoting the game as. However, we see color get drained for attack cards, but we also see there are worn out cards much like the worn out stickers from Sticker Star. While that didn't apply to how many uses the sticker had (instead it applied to attack power), seeing all of these similar mechanics returning is not a good sign.

However, I can automatically see the benefits of having a card- or deck-based system. Cards are not something people use once and throw away by design- they're objects we hold off on using and attempt to play at the right time, which is why a draw and discard based system would add a layer of depth that would automatically make the combat so much more engaging. Or, on the flipside, it could just be a way of shoving the pre-existing battle system into a new game. All we can do right now is wait and see, but the mention of cards already has me more hopeful. It won't be until E3 when journalists finally get their hands on the game and can give us more information. I doubt if anyone tried to ask now, Nintendo would give an answer.

[Adrock]

Color Splash doesn't look particularly interesting to me. It looks like Sticker Star HD which can promptly get the **** out of my face.

[Ian Sane]

As I said in the OP, Bill introduced it as an action-adventure game and not an RPG. I suppose this could be a sign that Nintendo thinks having 2 Mario RPG series is redundant and has given the RPG designation to Mario & Luigi while Paper Mario is being reformatted into an RPG/Action-Adventure game hybrid.

So Nintendo had Super Mario RPG but replaced that with Paper Mario and then introduced Mario & Luigi so they changed Paper Mario into not being an RPG to remove redundancy.  So Nintendo has somehow maintained a Mario RPG series for ten years while upsetting two different fanbases.  That's kind of impressive in a "look how fucked this is" kind of way.  Hey, it's made a Super Mario RPG fan like myself actually feel sorry for the Paper Mario fans.  At least there was a valid excuse for my Mario RPG style disappearing.  There is no reason Nintendo couldn't make more RPGs in the Paper Mario style, they just have chosen not to.

[Khushrenada]

Been thinking about this battle system a bit more.

Going back to Sticker Star, we know they were developing the game as a traditional Mario RPG and Miyamoto vetoed that causing them to change course resulting in the sticker battle system that was a bit obtuse. I think that game suffered from changing direction and trying to come up with something new. I'm sure there was development budget that they were trying to stick too keeping the team from being able to fully redevelop the game and not take to long to release it. As such, it became the wonky game that it is. In some ways, the marketplace probably ended up being the testing ground for the game which isn't the best way to release a game.

However, since the release of Sticker Star and having had more time to think about its battle system and get consumer feedback, I'm hoping this means IS has realized what didn't work and what would or will work and have refined the battle system with this new game. It could be a case like Mario Galaxy 2 refining the mechanics of Galaxy 1 to make a superior game from its predecessor. I have to think that the only reason IS is sticking with this type of battle system is because they've figured out the potential of the new ideas they introduced in Sticker Star and now that they are developing the game around it instead of adding it in at a late stage in development, the game will be better designed for it.


So, color me cautiously optimistic about this game.

[Khushrenada]

As I said in the OP, Bill introduced it as an action-adventure game and not an RPG. I suppose this could be a sign that Nintendo thinks having 2 Mario RPG series is redundant and has given the RPG designation to Mario & Luigi while Paper Mario is being reformatted into an RPG/Action-Adventure game hybrid.

So Nintendo had Super Mario RPG but replaced that with Paper Mario and then introduced Mario & Luigi so they changed Paper Mario into not being an RPG to remove redundancy.  So Nintendo has somehow maintained a Mario RPG series for ten years while upsetting two different fanbases.  That's kind of impressive in a "look how fucked this is" kind of way.  Hey, it's made a Super Mario RPG fan like myself actually feel sorry for the Paper Mario fans.  At least there was a valid excuse for my Mario RPG style disappearing.  There is no reason Nintendo couldn't make more RPGs in the Paper Mario style, they just have chosen not to.

Wait... You say you're a Mario RPG fan and now feel sorry for Paper Mario fans. Does this mean you've never liked the Paper Mario series and/or disliked the fans that like it?


As for my statement, I was trying to deduce why another Paper Mario game wasn't a full-fledged RPG. I could be right and I could be wrong. Right now, I'm leaning towards the new theory I posted that IS may have a better handle on how to do the card/sticker battle system and want to actually make a game around it because of that.

[Evan_B]

I'm holding out on the confirmation of the "one-and-done" aspect of battle cards. That's legitimately the only think that will kill the battle system. Adding the depth of color management is a welcome change just because it adds another level of resource management. But the appeal of creating card hands (Mario can be seen looking at his hand in one clip) could tip the scales on this game for me. It could also make the economy of the game matter a whole lot more, as you might have to spend money to craft better decks.

I hope that Intelligent Systems does improve this game in those aspects, but the look of this game and the "mistreatment" of the franchise for so long makes me think that it's a franchise that exists just to have a release instead of something that is nourished. I really, really hope I'm wrong, but it's better to keep expectations low rather than trick myself into false hope.


EDIT: Apparently action commands are returning- the Japanese video confirms this. A welcome aspect, as I mentioned before. The action command animations are a highlight of Sticker Star. However, Mario is able to defeat two enemies at once in the battle video, a feature of Sticker Star that I personally found a bit strange. In some cases, if you use a command to defeat an enemy but still have "excess" damage from that command left over, the attack will continue to the next enemy. This is because enemy "groups" have a shared HP bar, for example, three Goombas (which have 3 HP individually) have an HP bar of 9. Not all commands are able to do this damage transfer, however. Projectiles like Fire and Ice Flowers can, but Jump commands are best used for single enemies with high HP. The interesting wrinkle to this mechanic was that enemies can alter their stance (as with the later Shy Guys in Sticker Star, who switched holding their spears from horizontal to vertical positions to negate Jump and Hammer commands) or take on different qualities- instead of Spiky Goombas like in classic Paper Mario titles, there are Pointy Goombas, which are literally Goombas folded into cone shapes that will hurt Mario if he attempts a jump. These were the more interesting aspects of Sticker Star but unfortunately woefully underused.

[Ian Sane]

As I said in the OP, Bill introduced it as an action-adventure game and not an RPG. I suppose this could be a sign that Nintendo thinks having 2 Mario RPG series is redundant and has given the RPG designation to Mario & Luigi while Paper Mario is being reformatted into an RPG/Action-Adventure game hybrid.

So Nintendo had Super Mario RPG but replaced that with Paper Mario and then introduced Mario & Luigi so they changed Paper Mario into not being an RPG to remove redundancy.  So Nintendo has somehow maintained a Mario RPG series for ten years while upsetting two different fanbases.  That's kind of impressive in a "look how fucked this is" kind of way.  Hey, it's made a Super Mario RPG fan like myself actually feel sorry for the Paper Mario fans.  At least there was a valid excuse for my Mario RPG style disappearing.  There is no reason Nintendo couldn't make more RPGs in the Paper Mario style, they just have chosen not to.

Wait... You say you're a Mario RPG fan and now feel sorry for Paper Mario fans. Does this mean you've never liked the Paper Mario series and/or disliked the fans that like it?

No, I like Paper Mario but Super Mario RPG is one my favourite games of all time.  If I could have had the choice between Square continuing the series with Super Mario RPG 2 or Paper Mario I would have picked Super Mario RPG 2.  The fans of Mario's RPG games typically tend to have one style that is their preference, or at least it certainly was split that way when Paper Mario was fairly new.  I was in the Super Mario RPG camp and was annoyed that my style had been abandoned so quickly and those lucky Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi fans got sequels.  But now Paper Mario fans are also in the same boat so I sympathize.

[Evan_B]

Okay okay okay, I hate to harp here, but I noticed ONE MORE THING in the Japanese Direct footage.

After Mario successfully attacks the enemies with the hammer, his fully painted card (featured in the corner) loses its color and returns to its pre-colored state. This makes me think that using paint is a method of "charging up" your cards, which ARE reusable, but are likely doled out to you in shuffles. The healing items are the only cards that are fully painted in the trailer before use, which makes sense since wasting color on a heal would kind of defeat the purpose of having heals. We can see Mario only has two cards left when he uses his Fan card at the end of the footage- perhaps he has diminished his card hand to that size?

In Sticker Star, another mechanic was the Move Roulette, which allowed players to "buy" a chance at playing a roulette that would add extra sticker slot to their turn phase by getting lucky. If such a system returns, then it would be easy and beneficial to use more than one card attack in a turn, but also risky, as it wastes color and diminishes the total size of your hand.

Here's hoping.

[TOPHATANT123]

An excellent in depth Gamexplain analysis, it touches on a lot of points that Khushrenada and Evan brought up but consolidates it into a 25 minute long video that goes over every facet of the trailers.
https://youtu.be/fFmC9GEKcgY

[Evan_B]

I should work for them.


If the hand/deck thing turns out to be true, I'm way more hopeful for this game than I used to be. There's some interesting and weird graphics that appear in the "hand" screen- there appear to be some cards underneath the the cards positioned furthest left and right. Does this mean you can just scroll through hands? I personally hope not, but who knows. If that were the case, I would hope the game would be more oriented towards deck building than hand building- if you could create deck presets that you could switch out in between battles (so that you could have heals in one deck where your HP is suffering but intense attack decks for other encounters) that would be a pretty neat idea. The way the hand screen is designed, however, makes it look like there's not a lot of options outside of battling. There are no other menu based commands on the hand screen which is what makes me think that the hand screen appears when you press an "attack" menu command. With how the hand screen is designed, it also makes me think the game will be deck oriented since, if you just had your entire inventory of cards to scroll through on the hand screen (by swiping left or right on the row of cards, for example), you would probably go mad with all the options you have. You started with a base "sticker book" that could fit like, 36 normal sized stickers in Sticker Star, that's three or four swipes through hands you would have to do. Then again, maybe it's not out of the question...


There's no use analyzing the game more as of right now, but it definitely seems like there's some layers to the strategy here. Worn-out cards will likely do less damage, but also cost less paint to summon.