Author Topic: Fire Emblem: Fates Changes Controversial Support Conversation in Western Regions  (Read 13196 times)

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Offline CurtDogg

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There will be "no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging" in the localized version.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/41814/fire-emblem-fates-changes-controversial-support-conversation-in-western-regions

Nintendo of America, in a statement to us, has revealed that a controversial "drugging"/"gay conversion" support conversation in the upcoming game Fire Emblem: Fates will not be present in the North American and European versions of the game.

“In the version of the game that ships in the U.S. and Europe, there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters.” a Nintendo representative e-mailed us this morning.

In the Japanese version of Fire Emblem: Fates, you can gain S-Support, the highest level of a bond between to characters when pairing them together in battle, with several characters in the game. Most of these supports end in a marriage proposal, after several conversations between the characters.

One of the female characters, Soleil, is attracted to women, and often gets flustered and weak in the knees when she's around them. She often fears that she can't be a "strong and cool woman" because of this. Later in the support conversations if you pair her up with the male protagonist, he spikes her drink with a "magic powder" that makes her see women as men and vice-versa to help her "practice" around women. This was done without her knowing, as she fails to recognize the protagonist at the start of the conversation. Once the magic wore off, she found herself attracted to the male protagonist, and ends up proposing to him, saying that she fell in love with the female version of him, but now loves him as a male.

This was interpreted by many as not only casually drugging someone in order to alter their state of mind, but as a means of "gay conversion therapy", a method used by many religious organizations to change one's sexual orientation from gay to straight. This method is often seen as scientifically unfounded, abusive, and heteronormative.

Nintendo did not elaborate on how exactly these scenes would be changed in localized versions


Offline Enner

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*Prepares Internet Flame-Away Umbrella*


Ah, right. I expected this. Also, good on Nintendo of America for being forward with this after what happened with Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water and Xenoblade Chronicles X last year.


Let the voluminous cry of "censorship/traitorous editing" being! Hopefully, not so much in this corner.

Offline Evan_B

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...You know what, I'm fine with this one.

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Offline CultClassic

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So, I think there's been a lot of loose interpretation of this scene, and the way news sites have been spinning it is very manipulative. Disgusting, really. Soleil wants to be a cool, smooth woman, but cannot help comically fainting in front of cute girls. Corrin aids her by temporarily making it so Soleil sees men as cute girls as well, allowing her to talk normally with him and get over her problem. At no point is Soleil explicitly confirmed to be homosexual, though she may be bisexual. Corrin is upfront with his actions and Soleil is in complete control of herself. She is not "cured" of her like of cute girls, she's is merely taught to not allow it to cause her to get dizzy.


Now, while I can't say I'm a fan of the romance aspect of this support, I can say the same for many of the romances in the game, which are kind of haphazard anyway. However, the writers have every right to not have their silly anime shenanigans altered because a select group had to play hero.   

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Fire Emblem turned me gay

Offline TraciTheWeeb

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I would like to point out one small fact: the people who play moral police over games and try to channel their inner Jack Thompson, rarely ever actually play the games that they complain about. Changing a game to appease an audience that does not purchase or play the games will only confuse the people who do purchase and play the games. In this case, the character's lbgt tendencies are a major part of who they are, and changing this will entirely rewrite the character's dialogue, actions, etc., all to placate people who were never interested in the game anyway.




A wise man once told me: if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
This applies here.

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Laffo at gamergators registering just to post in this thread. Did you guys get mad when they took out the boob size slider for the 13-year-old character in the other game too?

Maybe these things are being changed not because of "moral policing" or whatever, but because they are objectively terrible.

Offline internetakias

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Here's the ""controversial"" conversation: http://pastebin.com/bgQC0yEa

Offline Oedo

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If the scene is really that bad, it's a no-brainer to take it out or alter it. You'd have a hard time convincing me that this conversation no longer being in the game is going to reduce your enjoyment of Fates in any meaningful way, whereas it's easy to see how leaving it in might really affect someone in a negative way.

Offline Shaymin

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Even the appearance of impropriety should be avoided, and "conversion therapy" is illegal in some US states (including California) and is about to be made illegal in at least one Canadian province.

(fixed typo)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 03:48:30 AM by Shaymin »
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Offline Soren

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Here's the ""controversial"" conversation: http://pastebin.com/bgQC0yEa

Quote
"I managed to get my hands on a kind of magic powder… I’m really sorry, but a little while ago, I poured some of it into your drink."

C'mon guys, everyone knows a dude's totally scummy and terrible act is immediately negated when he confesses to it.

I'm glad all these new members are here to clear the air on this subject matter. Thanks, guys!
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Offline MonadoMkII

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Hey, I had a few thoughts.


While Soleil does get flustered, that's not the worst of it; in her first support conversation with male Kamui/Corrin, she mentions that she outright faints on the battlefield at the sight of "cute girls". This severity is what gives Kamui/Corrin the idea of using this sort of 'exposure therapy'. In the real world, it's usually used for phobias, but the principle of controlled exposure to something that creates an unwanted reaction is the same. His intentions with this intervention were pure, as a commander worried about his subordinate.


It is correct that Kamui/Corrin initially gives Soleil the powder in secret; however, once Kamui/Corrin confesses, Soleil is understanding of his intentions and agrees to more of this "special training". I felt it was a little disingenuous to not include this second part.


Finally, there's a factual error; it's not Soleil who proposes to Kamui/Corrin, but the other way around. He attempts some sweet-talk by comparing her to the sun, she asks if he's hit his head, and he offers a sun-shaped ring. As further evidence of his purity, Kamui/Corrin also rejects Soleil's encouragement to touch her chest, saying he shouldn't touch a woman's body before marriage.


Thank you for reading.


Also:
Laffo at gamergators registering just to post in this thread. Did you guys get mad when they took out the boob size slider for the 13-year-old character in the other game too?
Good job mistaking Lin for the customisable player character. This is the sort of thing that fuels accusations of moral police who don't actually play games.

Offline Soren

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...His intentions with this intervention were pure, as a commander worried about his subordinate.

It is correct that Kamui/Corrin initially gives Soleil the powder in secret; however, once Kamui/Corrin confesses, Soleil is understanding of his intentions and agrees to more of this "special training". I felt it was a little disingenuous to not include this second part.


No it's not. Her consent after the fact doesn't justify his initial actions. The first time he drugged her without her consent and unless you're going for the "despicable shithead" character arc, it's out of character for someone who's supposed to be the hero of the game.
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Offline ejamer

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I find it disappointing that sexuality is apparently viewed a checkbox: gay or not. Seems like this could have been a chance to make it more of a spectrum, where falling in love isn't strictly about gender and depends more about the person and taking time to build a relationship than what specific bits and bobs they have. But that's pretty heavy for some people, and hard to pull off decently in a video game script.


The (very limited) stuff I've read online made me think that's what the scene was going for instead of the "conversion" idea - but people are calling it out very strongly. Assuming those people have done their homework instead of just believing half-baked media reports about what actually happens, maybe it's good the scene has been cut.
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Offline MonadoMkII

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No it's not. Her consent after the fact doesn't justify his initial actions. The first time he drugged her without her consent and unless you're going for the "despicable shithead" character arc, it's out of character for someone who's supposed to be the hero of the game.

I can see it working for other character types. I haven't read a lot of other Support translations yet, but given Kamui's awkward flirting in the S support and the sketchy act of drugging Soleil in an (unsuccessful) attempt to solve her problems, I can see the man as a sort of misguided helper with poor communication skills. Like I said, I haven't read enough of the script to know if this is actually the case, but from the limited things I've seen, it seems a valid interpretation. The outrage about this Support seems to rely on the worst possible interpretation of the character and his actions, which is what I find disingenuous.

Offline ejamer

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Laffo at gamergators registering just to post in this thread.



Yeah!  Get out of here with your "ideas" and "opinions".  We don't welcome that stuff here.
 ;)


Quote
Did you guys get mad when they took out the boob size slider for the 13-year-old character in the other game too?


I was mad... but mostly because they didn't make it a gender neutral option so that I could have sexy moobs on my hero. Of course, then they'd need to let him wear a bikini (or some other kind of upper body support) too, so maybe it's a bigger can of worms than I thought?


Kidding aside, I wish someone would put a beekcake slider option into games. I'm sick of playing as super thick, steroid-driven avatars instead of having the option to be a better representation of my actual lean self.
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Offline MonadoMkII

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Apologies for having to post twice, but my previous post has really small text despite me not touching the font size and there doesn't seem to be an edit function.


No it's not. Her consent after the fact doesn't justify his initial actions. The first time he drugged her without her consent and unless you're going for the "despicable shithead" character arc, it's out of character for someone who's supposed to be the hero of the game.

I can see it working for other character types. I haven't read a lot of other Support translations yet, but given Kamui's awkward flirting in the S support and the sketchy act of drugging Soleil in an (unsuccessful) attempt to solve her problems, I can see the man as a sort of misguided helper with poor communication skills. Like I said, I haven't read enough of the script to know if this is actually the case, but from the limited things I've seen, it seems a valid interpretation. The outrage about this Support seems to rely on the worst possible interpretation of the character and his actions, which is what I find disingenuous.

Offline ejamer

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(There is a problem on these boards sometimes - if you delete lines while editing, it can mess with the text size. Super annoying in the Talkback thread, because there is no ability to edit your post after the fact. Using the Preview button sometimes helps, and sometimes you can cut and paste into a text editor and then back into a new edit window if there are problems. Sometimes that doesn't work either though.)
 :(
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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I recommend that when you post in TalkBack you should use the Quick Reply box at the bottom of the page instead of going to the full editor. I've never had those formatting problems doing it that way.
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Offline MonadoMkII

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Thanks for the tips, both of you, and sorry for derailing the thread with my stupidity. I'll try to use Preview more. Ninja-edit: that glitch happened again when I refreshed while writing this! Also, "null" appeared four times at the end of the preview box... Anyway:

I find it disappointing that sexuality is apparently viewed a checkbox: gay or not. Seems like this could have been a chance to make it more of a spectrum, where falling in love isn't strictly about gender and depends more about the person and taking time to build a relationship than what specific bits and bobs they have. But that's pretty heavy for some people, and hard to pull off decently in a video game script.


The (very limited) stuff I've read online made me think that's what the scene was going for instead of the "conversion" idea - but people are calling it out very strongly. Assuming those people have done their homework instead of just believing half-baked media reports about what actually happens, maybe it's good the scene has been cut.
I think this is a very interesting take on the Support. As you pointed out, stuff like that is hard to do; especially in something like Fire Emblem, since Awakening and Fates so prominently feature biological children. Fates does apparently have same-sex relationships, though, so I guess that proves it's not impossible to include.

Offline Triforce Hermit

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My thoughts have already been posted earlier
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...You know what, I'm fine with this one.

I can't believe how uch this franchise has become a combat dating sim.


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Offline ClexYoshi

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I don't even want to come near this one.


What I DO want to address here is my disappointment in one Mr. Ty Shugart.

May I remind you that this is a man who regularly slips substances such as Catnip onto his fight stick to drug his immortal sexy Nekomata slave into playing Killer Instinct for him for hours on end so he can continue to be top ranked at a game that nobody gives a **** about in Japan becasue Bonchan and Momochi are too busy getting ready for SFV.

Notice that he deflects Kamui's sins, and thus his own sins, onto gamergate supporters as a scapegoat!


The moral of the story is, Don't do Catdrugs, no matter how S-U-P-E-R they may seem.

Offline broodwars

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I am perfectly OK with this change. That entire support conversation was really creepy and could be interpreted as borderline rape-y.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Good job mistaking Lin for the customisable player character. This is the sort of thing that fuels accusations of moral police who don't actually play games.

Actually I did make a mistake, the 13 year old had the super revealing clothes and not the boob size slider. My bad!!!

Offline Battlechili

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How very upsetting. This is happening so frequently of late that I find it difficult to support Nintendo of America at times. This removal of content is particularly troubling because it is actively changing some form of character development such as that of Soleil. Its also removing some content that might've been enjoyable for gay and bisexual fans of Fire Emblem, all for the sake of not being offensive or uncomfortable for some players. I'd argue that people should be allowed to access the content in its original state and decide for themselves how they feel about it, and that its not NoA's place as a localization company to decide what people find discomforting for them nor is it their place to decide if something in a game developed in another region is a bad idea to put in or not. I also feel that this is harmful to video games as an art form, as such forms of editing discourage content creators from putting in potentially upsetting content in their works as well as simply prevent works with their original intentions from making it to the West.
If a work has something that could be conceived as bad in it, I would find it preferable to be criticized in its original state than to be changed for a Western audience out of fear of criticism.