Author Topic: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...  (Read 43621 times)

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Offline BranDonk Kong

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...it's almost 2:00 am, and I just got back from seeing it for the 3rd time (this time in IMAX 3D, woohoo!), so I'm too tired to get into any discussion...but this topic needs to be made. However...


...if you don't want to see any Star Wars Episode VII spoilers, then get out of this thread, now!


There - fair warning has been given, so lets get to discussing the movie freely!
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 02:38:56 AM »
This thing headfaked me right in my feelings, something I haven't felt at the movies in a long time. I was surprised and enjoyed it a lot. There were so many little things that were good and yet it took its time in getting to them. The little scenes add up to something special and the fact it had the same pacing of ANH, with a few more action/violence scenes, and more characters and consistently good and real dialogue, without getting convoluted, was unbelievably refreshing.


I kinda checked out after the big scene, though. It didn't help that the rest was a retread. Spoilers: watched the IJ movies today to help with the heartburn. If it weren't for Death Star #3 it would be a perfect movie. Not complaining though. I'm personally looking forward to the next two.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2015, 10:07:32 AM »
I don't know how to use spoiler tags and since the thread title has fair warning I will just post my thoughts.

Kylo Ren is the villain Star Wars has been missing since the Empire Strikes Back. Vader was a tool in A New Hope and a lapdog in Jedi but he was a monster in Empire. Then we meet Kylo Ren and learn Vader blood is bad news.

The pacing was perfect I never once felt like I was bored or wondering what is going on, it wasn't convoluted and busy like the prequels and it wasn't boring and slow like A New Hope. I think Empire was the only one to get the pacing right, Phantom Menace came close second and then A New Hope, the rest were usually too busy then too slow then back to being busy again.

The special effects worked good I think, I liked how it had a modern film look and wasn't trying to look like it was made in the damn 70's like some fanboys wanted. It needed to be believable like this universe could exist and these people really were just living their lives.

The big stormtrooper that everyone was hating was perfectly cast he added so much to the film it otherwise would have lacked, the film didn't necessarily need more "diversity" but there was nothing wrong with that character at all, and I am from Texas where the only toys NOT selling are the ones with his face on it.

Han, wow it was like he learned from the mistakes of Krystal Skull and stepped back into Han Solo like it was yesterday. Chewie was funny in this movie, something that felt a little out of place because I never associated him with humor. But it was the right kind of humor that was not at all annoying, eye rolling, or cursing your existence bad like Jar Jar.

The villains were pure evil, their motive is restore evil to the galaxy plain and simple, wipe out the good once and for all. They fact it didn't even try to hide that the First Order/Empire were meant to be Nazi's was good it showed that the film makers still had their balls in place and Disney wasn't able to castrate this film like people feared they might.

Not the films fault but the theater going experience was sort of ruined heading into a new STAR WARS film only to be forced to sit through a STAR TREK trailer, that was kind of bullshit but whatever. Not as bad as all the commercials reminding the world Disney is perfect and your childhood belongs to them.

The music was weak, it was too safe too familiar I think this film needed some more themes of it's own, the themes it did introduce were great but the important scenes all relied too much on familiar there was nothing as amazing as Duel of the Fates, but there was not Duel of the... wait shut up nevermind.

That brings me to the lightsaber battles, FINALLY done right, not over the top not underwhelming but actually believable and relevant to the story for a change. Even if barely.

The starkiller was awesome I loved it, and the, was that a SUper Super Star Destroyer or an Ultra Star Destroyer? It shows how heavily the Empire/First Order relies/Relied on technology to do their bidding because while the cult of evil was effective, they couldn't reach everyone.

First viewing I didn't like the Han Solo introductory scene it felt too Doctor Who for me, not Star Wars at all. Upon second viewing, after having time to reflect on the whole movie, it still felt too Doctor Who but it reminded me of stuff from the novels that could happen but never did in the films so it was nice to see them actually acknowledging the books they no longer accept as cannon but were okay with taking ideas from.

Rey was awesome, I fell in love with her the first viewing and I want to see more of her. I didn't care for Padme/Amidala because in Phantom Menace it was too confusing trying to figure out when it was her, when it wasn't her, what she was doing, what was her role, why was she so important, etc. In Clones she was better but still annoying until the end when she became almost likeable but all likability went out the window when she tried to seduce pretty boy in Revenge.


Speaking of pretty boy, looks like they wanted someone who had Vader blood in them this time. Luke well he wast first so it wasn't his fault Lucas failed to find someone believable as his father, but Ben Skywalker could easily be the kin of Anakin.

The Yoda of the movie was a little offputting the first viewing, the second viewing I warmed up to it, I am not sure how much it will, was it a she or was that confirmed? In today's world you can't make assumptions, anyways no they did say it was  a she, the new yoda, whatever her name was, I am not sure if that will be the new Jar Jar or some throwaway character we don't see again, considering you know, what happens.

The cantina scene wasn't a straight rip off but it was done well enough. It reminded me more of the Jabba's Palace scene but not as bad as the sports bar in Clones. Or the stupid out of place 50's Diner, that was just wrong.

Other than that, well there was just too much to take in all at once. Despite all the reports I didn't spot R2-KT anywhere in the film so they must have hidden it pretty good or else I wasn't looking hard enough. I am also unsure if they stuck to the tradition of throwing THX-1138 references in there like Lucas always did or if they abandoned that to make it their own. It would be sad if they didn't because it would really distance this one from the OT and PT a little but not any more than not having the Fox Fanfare which was actually jarring but it wasn't that bad the second time. I actually would have preferred a Disney castle or something despite not wanting to remember it was Disney just something to fill those 20 seconds that they cut which just dropped you into the movie with no warning, so a minor gripe but there needed to be something equivalent to the fanfare and there wasn't so these films will have to stand on their own.

Overall I loved it and will be going back again.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 10:10:58 AM by michaelbaysuperfan616 »
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 11:30:24 AM »
My only real complaint was the fact that Finn didn't get a big moment toward the end. Also readimg the MSW leaks and the art book alot got cit from the middle and end.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 03:37:33 PM »
It's the best standalone Star Wars film out of the 7 but in the whole of the saga its probably 3. Its good but its safe. Visually is damn near perfect with a perfect mix of old and new. Music was so-so except for Rey's theme which was great.


Kylo Ren is what Anakin Skywalker should have been in the prequels. Angst, anger, insecurity and entitlement. That dude is evil. I thought it was Ben Solo, not Skywalker?


Can we talk about who Rey is? I don't think she's a Solo or Skywalker.




Offline ThePerm

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2015, 04:22:33 PM »
Ben Solo is the Force Awakens character. Ben Skywalker is the Extended Universe Character.
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2015, 04:34:50 PM »
Ben Solo is the Force Awakens character. Ben Skywalker is the Extended Universe Character.

I knew that I was just trying to confuse people. Still he does have Skywalker blood in him so...
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 12:06:08 AM »
If Rey isn't Luke Skywalker's daughter, the she is Obi Wan Kenobi's grand daughter. In fact, that would make a lot of sense. However, I think the look in each other's eyes at the end, and the fact that Kylo Ren could see that she had visions of the island where the Jedi Temple is point to her being Luke's daughter. That's who was taking off I'm the ship in her flashback. Why else would Anakin's light saber be calling to her?
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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 09:37:10 AM »
And then Finn will end up being Mace Windu's grandson and the Prequel crowd go nuts and the OT crowd suddenly hate this movie for no good reason.

Rey doesn't have to be a descendant of Vader or Kenobi though, that would be a George Lucas sized short-sighted thing to do, this universe has to be larger than there are only two lineages and one black family in the whole galaxy like Lucas envisioned.

Now it makes sense though if you think about it, he had a daughter and Leia had a son, then Luke witnesses Ben turn to the darkside despite his best efforts and goes on a hunt to find the Jedi Temple where he learns why Jedi are not supposed to make babies and have children. But if the Force can ONLY be spread through blood line and Jedi were not allowed to mate, then the whole Jedi order went extinct thousands of years ago, so again pulling on loose threads Lucas did not have the foresight to tie up leaves Abrams and company with a huge gaff to over come.


So If the Force doesn't require lineage to spread then why does Rey have to come from a Jedi bloodline at all why can't she just be the Force Spawn like Anakin was to bring balance back to the Force? Well obviously that would only make sense if she was ten years younger than Ben so the Force would know it was out of Balance and the Light Side would spawn a miracle baby. Another loose thread thank's to Lucas.


So there really is no easy way out of this. She ends up having to be the offspring of Kenobi, Skywalker, or Palpatine in order for people to not have to think too hard and Lucas didn't care about loose ends but I am not so sure Disney wants to make these films as overly complicated as Lucas made his last three.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 11:12:23 AM »
As much as they are differentiating from the EU, BEN SOLO is Darth Caedus. They could make Rey "Skywalker" work long as Finn still becomes the Hero he's meant to be by episode 9.


Also, how the hell Does Maz get Luke's original lightsaber?

Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 11:41:02 AM »
There was a story in the EU where the remnants of the Empire recovered his hand and used it to make a clone of him. It is entirely possible they stick with that or do something similar.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 01:37:00 PM »
The movie met my every expectation, but it didn't exceed any of them, and was a letdown in a few ways. I thought the pacing was good up until the second act, which dragged on ridiculously and went nowhere, and the third act felt way too rushed.

Finn was, by far, the best part of the movie, giving it a much needed sense of grounding. Rey, though I liked her, was WAY too much of a Mary Sue. Never flown a ship like the Falcon before, yet managed to do so with such little effort that she impresses Han Solo? Also just starts using Force powers without even having training and pretty much just basing them off of how she thinks they should work? I mean, I get it. The title of the movie clearly is directed explicitly towards her but she is the most adept force user I think we have ever seen in the series thusfar, and the fact that she's great at a number of other things doesn't help.

There were definite stakes when Han and Finn and Poe were on screen. Not so with Rey.

Other than that, I liked the movie. I am hoping Kylo Ren becomes even more of a monster in the future, right now he's just a BIT too emotional to me.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 01:38:41 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 06:37:31 PM »
Luke had been telling her how to use The Force in her dreams would be my assumption.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2015, 12:22:43 AM »
The movie met my every expectation, but it didn't exceed any of them, and was a letdown in a few ways. I thought the pacing was good up until the second act, which dragged on ridiculously and went nowhere, and the third act felt way too rushed.

Finn was, by far, the best part of the movie, giving it a much needed sense of grounding. Rey, though I liked her, was WAY too much of a Mary Sue. Never flown a ship like the Falcon before, yet managed to do so with such little effort that she impresses Han Solo? Also just starts using Force powers without even having training and pretty much just basing them off of how she thinks they should work? I mean, I get it. The title of the movie clearly is directed explicitly towards her but she is the most adept force user I think we have ever seen in the series thusfar, and the fact that she's great at a number of other things doesn't help.

There were definite stakes when Han and Finn and Poe were on screen. Not so with Rey.

Other than that, I liked the movie. I am hoping Kylo Ren becomes even more of a monster in the future, right now he's just a BIT too emotional to me.






She's not a "Mary Sue" at all. The precedent was set way back in episode 1. Anakin Was a freaking genius. Building Droids from scraps, fixing Watto's junk, Podracing when no other known human can do it and flying in a strange ship through a blockade and blowing up a capital ship. AND HE WAS FREAKING 8 YEARS OLD! Rey is like 20 or something with far more life experience and the nature of the force is once you believe in it, it has you.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2015, 01:39:37 AM »
Anakin was the greatest Jedi that ever lived, and never finished a race until the one that set him free, and also was assisted by a droid and a ship with autopilot functions. And a 3P0 model is something that is frequent in the Star Wars universe.

Even so, his sheer luck and coincidental skill was something I thought could be attributed to Lucas' stale writing and direction. Now I see that it's acceptable in general. Like I said, she must be extremely adept with the Force, since she develops Force powers faster than pretty much any other character we've ever seen in the movies.

And is also a great aim, and lucks out in specialized military superplanet fortresses, and knows how to Jedi Mind Trick, and overcome trained Dark Jedi mind probing, and is a fast pilot of devices she's never used before, and knows how to operate blast doors and other security features on a ship she's never seen, and everyone loves her, and she has a "we can do it!" attitude until... she suddenly doesn't for no other reason than to move the plot along, I guess...? I just don't think we've ever seen someone so utterly capable.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2015, 05:44:29 PM »
She has been trained to some degree. That staff she's carrying has Darth Maul old saber or something that is meant to look like an old Lightsaber Her parents, whomever they are has to put certain things into place to protect her, even training that she may have not realized was actually Force training. Plus Kylo Ren was just shot with a Tank Gun in the belly, of course she could be him.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2015, 08:01:46 PM »
I loved the film.  I think the new cast was all-around excellent.  I especially liked how strong Poe was as a supporting character.  Finn's story was interestingly parallel to the slave narrative (which I won't get into, if it'll make everyone uncomfortable) and I think that was intentional in a good way. 

Rey was great too.  I know she seemed like a Mary Sue, but when she was speaking to Han, it seemed like she was well-versed in stories of the Rebellion.  I would think she's also heard about the Force and Force powers, so he trying out the Jedi Mind Trick didn't phase me as much, especially after she just tapped into her force powers resisting Kylo Ren.

When Han and Chewie showed up, I thought his cameo would be quick, but was a pretty big part of the film.  He literally guides the new characters into the Star Wars Universe, making his death feel like a passing of the torch. (Only for the torch to be passed back at the end, lol.)

Speaking of the ending, I'm glad it didn't end with Rey flying off to look for Luke.  That would've felt cheap.  I really liked that there were no lines at the end either.  That made the moment feel heavier.

My only real complaint was the fact that Finn didn't get a big moment toward the end.

I completely agree here.  I was hoping he'd at least open his eyes.  He whole story line almost felt like one big red herring, but I think he came into his own.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2015, 10:10:43 PM »
Apparently Disney Infinity 3.0 reveals a major spoiler about Rey...so try to avoid that for the next couple of years.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2015, 12:08:51 AM »
Crap. That's gonna be everywhere now.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2015, 03:53:45 AM »
Disney Infinity thing is NOT a spoiler. Kylo does NOT say that. its safe
 

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2015, 02:38:28 PM »
I know people want to defend the movie and it's choices because it was a bearable film, but I'm not so blinded that I couldn't see the flaws in the story. You can read into it as much as you want, Rey is overpowered.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2015, 02:53:39 PM »
I hoped that it was fake. I didn't watch the supposed video, but I accidentally read the sentence below where someone posted it. Not saying I'd necessarily be upset if that ended up being true, but it would suck to find out that way, and also would be ridiculous for Disney to even think of including it in a video game.
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Offline Dasmos

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2015, 09:13:30 PM »
They seem to be suggesting Rey is Luke's daughter, but I don't think so. I sort of felt that Rey might have been trained by Luke when she was younger, maybe at the academy at the same time as Ben, but was sent away protect her from Kylo Ren and Snoke once Ben turned. Maybe she had her memory and force powers suppressed and they were finally "awakened" after she got off Jakku. It just seemed that Han, Leia and Kylo Ren all knew who she was.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2015, 12:00:57 PM »
They seem to be suggesting Rey is Luke's daughter, but I don't think so. I sort of felt that Rey might have been trained by Luke when she was younger, maybe at the academy at the same time as Ben, but was sent away protect her from Kylo Ren and Snoke once Ben turned. Maybe she had her memory and force powers suppressed and they were finally "awakened" after she got off Jakku. It just seemed that Han, Leia and Kylo Ren all knew who she was.




YES!

Re: Official Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER DISCUSSION thread...
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2015, 10:42:34 AM »
went again yesterday, was my third time seeing the film. This time I took three of my nephews who had also already seen it, I was babysitting for my sister it seemed like a good way to pass the time. It was still good on it's third viewing so I am starting to think it wasn't just hype and hope holding this together.


I went into The Phantom Menace so hyped I almost couldn't believe it was actually happening. I got so impatient I bought the book and read it the week before I went to see the film. A part of me kept saying that the reason it disappointed that first night was because I had read the book and between the spoilers and usual books being different from the final films, I felt like I cheated myself reading the book.

Then on second viewing I had a chance to actually enjoy the movie and realize yes a lot of why I wasn't having as much fun opening night as I should was I already knew the ending and how they got there, there was no reveal, no tension just a lot of let down that things that were in the book either didn't make it into the movie or turned out differently. To this day when I re-watch Episode I I keep confusing lines in the film for their novel counterparts. This has always bothered me. Needless to say I avoided any type of spoilers with the remaining films.

Based on my experience I did go back to The Phantom Menace one more time to make sure it was an enjoyable film and not ruined because of hype or spoilers. On my third viewing I began to be annoyed more and more by the cringe worthy acting of Jake Lloyd, and the Jar Jar character began to shift from eye rolling bad to man I really hate this character.

Then came the DVD release and all the distance between the premiere and the reading of the book plus aging a little, maturing a little, the film was more or less watchable but never recovered to greatness. I always liked the movie, but yes there are parts I hated.


To this day, as much as it will bother some people, Phantom Menace is the only prequel I can re-watch on a regular basis as a part of my annual Star Wars viewing, I often save the other two for those rare occasions I feel compelled to watch all six, which has only happened twice since I got all six. I always fast forward heavily through Revenge, skip most of Clones, and then watch the OT in peace.


As I was sitting in the theater opening night I kept going through my mind, wow this is Star Wars, and ugh this is Star Wars, back to YEAH THIS IS STAR WARS!!

Second viewing I took my sister and brother-in-law as a birthday present to him, and my viewing experience was mostly, now that I had seen it I can watch it and analyze it more. My impressions this time were okay some of the minor things that annoyed me are not as annoying as they initially were so that was a plus, there were no eye rolling moments both viewings unlike the PT where I had to cringe many times, so that was good, and the story, acting, action, and effects were still really interesting the second viewing. I shook this off as okay I saw the movie once now it stayed good but it was still opening weekend it could have been post hype.

So I intentionally waited another week to go back. I was going to wait till this weekend but having been duped into baby sitting for my sister I took that as a chance to kill two birds with one stone, keep the hoodlums occupied for a few hours and see the movie for that third time.

This is where I realized that unlike some movies in the past where I couldn't wait to get back to the theater to see it again, I was actually regretting spending money again to see a movie a third time I had already seen. being the "favorite" uncle that I am I had to buy snacks and when it was all said and done, the event ended up costing me more money than I spent on everyone for Christmas, and no I didn't cheap out on Christmas I just splurged at the theater and wish I hadn't done that. Anyways cognitive dissonance aside,  I was able to really get into the movie this time and despite that hole in my wallet that continues to nag at me, grr, I felt like it was a very enjoyable experience worthy of the name Star Wars and this film will certainly make it's way into my annual viewings along with the other good ones, I can't say for sure if it will topple Episode One or just extend my viewing time but nostalgia is mostly what keeps Phantom Menace alive in my mind, but I attribute much of that to the OT as well so I am hoping this one holds up on it's own without the nostalgia factor because let's face it nobody gets nostalgic for their early 30's until they are like on their death bed.
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