Topic: Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE - 2016 Wii U GOTY by default

[TOPHATANT123]

Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE - First Beats Trailer

The yellow text is a bit of an unusual choice, but I suppose it's something I'd just get used to. Another thing is that there is a new little effect to emphasise the Fire Emblem, as the logo starts out as Tokyo Mirage Sessions Fire Emblem then morphs into Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE

[Enner]

Those yellow subtitles are/were the color of choice in anime DVDs. I can't help but think it's a wink and a nod to that.


As for the DLC,
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/asej/blog/vol036.html


This blog post has images of the hot springs DLC in question. Going on the NWR article, the DLC codes included in the outside-of-Japan Stupid Edition are the costumes.

[Evan_B]

I don't really need the hot springs DLC myself, but I don't think those swimsuits are too revealing. Nothing XCX level, anyway.

[Evan_B]

After watching more gameplay and hearing more impressions, I'm starting to see how important the creation of Sessions are within the combat, but I guess my real question is how they are formed- when you hit a weakness, do other characters automatically follow up with weakness strikes of their own? If that is the case, I can understand why continuously switching out party members for different dungeons- and, in fact, specializing certain characters around session "affinities", would be paramount. I wonder how skills unlock, though. I suppose Mirages, not the human characters, learn them?

So many questions that will likely be answered as soon as the game releases, but still!!! This combat system intrigues me so much!

[pokepal148]

It'll get edited and it will fit a T rating. People need to deal with it.

"You censorship loving SJW hippies, don't make me call my friends at #Gamergate on this thread."

[TOPHATANT123]

It's occurred to me that this is the first game in the Shin Megami Tensei family of games to have a non-silent protagonist.

[Oedo]

If anybody in Canada wants the special edition, EB Games has it up for the "reasonable" price of $120 (and apparently they're the only ones who will have it here). I'm hoping this is just a placeholder price and it's adjusted closer to release like Twilight Princess HD and Bravely Second.

[Enner]

http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/bib4RuC7xxI8fX1lKYDJQs9Tt0_M2OGt

Details of the five DLC packs.

Looking more like we won't be getting those hot springs.

[ejamer]

http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/bib4RuC7xxI8fX1lKYDJQs9Tt0_M2OGt

Details of the five DLC packs.

Looking more like we won't be getting those hot springs.

Does the missing DLC matter to the story at all, or it's just fan service?
I likely wouldn't have purchased either way - only buying DLC if I really like game - so it's not a deal breaker.


Also, does this surprise anyone?  I mean, Atlus is doing the localization according to NoA and we all know they don't support hot springs or bathing suits. Of course Atlus was going to cut this content from the release.

[broodwars]

Also, does this surprise anyone?  I mean, Atlus is doing the localization according to NoA and we all know they don't support hot springs or bathing suits. Of course Atlus was going to cut this content from the release.

Umm...what?

[ejamer]

Also, does this surprise anyone?  I mean, Atlus is doing the localization according to NoA and we all know they don't support hot springs or bathing suits. Of course Atlus was going to cut this content from the release.

Umm...what?
...

Intended to be sarcastic, after NoA's press release about how Atlus is handling all translation so if there are cuts it's on them.  Everyone knows that Nintendo is overseeing the localization even if Atlus does the actual translation work, so that blame shifting press release felt incredibly lame.

[Khushrenada]

You know what else is lame? Sarcasm. People who use it are soooooo funny. Not.

[TOPHATANT123]

I think the fundamental difference is that Atlus is a small company that thrives on the good will of it's small audience, whereas I think Nintendo feels that by making their Japanese games slightly less Japanese they can reach a larger mainstream audience with lower ESRB ratings and content that makes mainstream audiences less uncomfortable. Without a time machine I'd say it's pretty much impossible to tell which approach actually works best. It's possible that those angry with the changes are a vocal minority that will buy the game anyway, and once they get their hands on it and realise the quality, will focus on the 99% that's there rather than 1% that isn't.

[Shaymin]

As mentioned elsewhere, if the hot springs DLC is in the game proper as a bone for the six month localization time I reserve the right to laugh for a week.

And if it doesn't happen... welp, wasn't buying it anyway, nothing of value was lost.

[broodwars]

Also, does this surprise anyone?  I mean, Atlus is doing the localization according to NoA and we all know they don't support hot springs or bathing suits. Of course Atlus was going to cut this content from the release.

Umm...what?
...

Intended to be sarcastic, after NoA's press release about how Atlus is handling all translation so if there are cuts it's on them.  Everyone knows that Nintendo is overseeing the localization even if Atlus does the actual translation work, so that blame shifting press release felt incredibly lame.

Yeah, I thought you might have been being sarcastic, but I couldn't tell for sure since sarcasm relies so much on tone and context. It helps to use emoticons, italics, or bolding to make sure your meaning is clear.

[Ian Sane]

I think the fundamental difference is that Atlus is a small company that thrives on the good will of it's small audience, whereas I think Nintendo feels that by making their Japanese games slightly less Japanese they can reach a larger mainstream audience with lower ESRB ratings and content that makes mainstream audiences less uncomfortable. Without a time machine I'd say it's pretty much impossible to tell which approach actually works best. It's possible that those angry with the changes are a vocal minority that will buy the game anyway, and once they get their hands on it and realise the quality, will focus on the 99% that's there rather than 1% that isn't.

Anyone working at NOA that thinks that making THIS game slightly less Japanese is going to attract a larger mainstream audience should be fired immediately before their cluelessness causes serious damage to the company.  This game will sell to the same audience that Atlus sells their 3DS games to and no one else.

Would any of this removed content actually affect the ESRB rating?  That is the only visible indicator to the "mainstream audience".  How would anyone who didn't follow this game incredibly closely know there was some bathing suit scene in the game that would offend them in the first place?  Who is going to be all "well I was afraid there might be some scene with teenagers in bathing suits in this game but I somehow know there isn't so I'm going to buy it now."  And are any of the geeks that would buy this game going to complain about such a scene?  You figure Nintendo "censoring" their games has caused more of a shitstorm, since the target audience that actually plays such games doesn't like it.  The concerned parent groups are going to be looking at Pokémon and Mario.  They have no idea this game even exists.  There are probably just as likely odds of such a group playing an uncensored Atlus game on a Nintendo system and ASSUMING Nintendo made it and getting mad at them.

[broodwars]

The whole thing reminds me of clueless Hollywood executives who force directors to make PG-13 versions of R-Rated films (particularly remakes, such as the case of Total Recall and Robocop). Yeah, you could do it and theoretically you could expand your audience, but at the cost of rendering your end product completely toothless & unsatisfying for the very people who were interested in such a product in the first place.

[ejamer]

... are a vocal minority that will buy the game anyway, and once they get their hands on it and realise the quality, will focus on the 99% that's there rather than 1% that isn't.

This is true, people (myself included) will buy regardless. But it doesn't justify a stupid decision.


Unlike the PG-13 comparison, I'm not sure this really hurts the end product. The base game is (largely) unchanged. It's more annoyance on principle about unnecessary edits that are a waste of time, money and effort. Doubly so when the product is specifically intended to be a reflection (of sorts) of Japanese culture.


It's not a harmful decision. Just a dumb one.

[Ian Sane]

The whole thing reminds me of clueless Hollywood executives who force directors to make PG-13 versions of R-Rated films (particularly remakes, such as the case of Total Recall and Robocop). Yeah, you could do it and theoretically you could expand your audience, but at the cost of rendering your end product completely toothless & unsatisfying for the very people who were interested in such a product in the first place.

I wonder if the theory of making something bland and inoffensive to appeal more to a mainstream audience makes sense in this day and age?  In the old days you had like three TV channels and your buying options were largely limited by what your local department store carried.  Getting anything niche meant you had to learn about something from magazines aimed at enthusiasts and order it by mail order.  Bland mainstream entertainment was what you accepted unless you were willing to work your ass off to find something else.  These days the internet has opened everything up so much.  It is so easy to learn of more specialized entertainment that fits your specific tastes and with online shopping you can easily obtain it even if Wal-Mart doesn't carry it.  So does this mainstream bland product loving person still exist or was it just something you were because it was too difficult to be anything else?

I see it more like there are people that want a game like Tokyo Mirage Sessions and people that want a game like Mario and people that want a game like Wii Fit and there is some crossover but not tons of it.  And all of these people need their platform of choice for videogames to offer the types of games they want.  You release a game like TMS to get that audience buying your console and buying games for it.  You don't assume such a title will have mass appeal and a console that just aims for mass appeal doesn't get the TMS audience on it because they'll go for something with more games that specifically suit them.  You get the larger audience by having variety on your console to attract a variety of tastes but that doesn't mean every game sells to most of that audience.  Some games might but others will only sell to a portion.  Nintendo's "every game for everyone" theory makes more sense in the pre-internet 80's than it does today.

[Evan_B]

I'm honestly not surprised, but I am still bewildered. This is a game about Japanese customs, standards, and ridiculousness. I haven't read anything decrying the hot springs DLC as super sexualized or anything, just that it exists. How is that harmful? Are women not allowed to show skin in Nintendo-published games?

I'm pretty sure every western purchase is aware of Atlus' legacy and wouldn't be at all surprised by this- but it's not really harmful material in any way, at least not to the level of the in-game instance. This just shows Nintendo would rather avoid genre savviness in order for a few more bucks.

I'm still getting the game and I won't really miss the hots springs content- it WAS DLC, after all- but that won't stop me from calling Nintendo out on an unnecessary choice. Unless I'm mistaken, and there was a lot more steamy stuff going on in the pack- no pun intended- then I understand.

Just something we'll have to get used to, I guess.

[broodwars]

The Hot Springs DLC apparently being cut just brings me back to my main problem with this release: just who is this game FOR? Nintendo claims they're bringing it over for hardcore JRPG fans, yet they've cut and altered content far beyond what longtime Atlus fans are accustomed to in Atlus releases. This practice of cutting and altering content is typical Nintendo M.O. for attempts at reaching a broader audience, but the game has no English dub and is still incredibly Japanese and Otaku-centric. At the end of the day, just who is Nintendo marketing this release to, because so far they seem to have forgotten that this game colossally bombed in Japan and they're just pissing off the niche audience that would buy it here, a niche audience who can just get their fill in the superior Persona 5 later this year on other consoles.

Nintendo will come out of this virtually unscathed since, to some, they can do no wrong. The reputation this release hurts is Atlus', who stake their entire existence on catering to niche audiences & just giving their fans what they want.

Not all games or movies are for children, Nintendo. Some of them can be Deadpool (the highest-grossing R-rated film of all time that succeeded based on aiming squarely for a very specific audience).

[Soren]

The Hot Springs DLC apparently being cut just brings me back to my main problem with this release: just who is this game FOR?

This game was made for Japanese audiences. The fact that we're getting it is beside the overall point of the game. Right now it's just a game that fills a spot on the release schedule and nothing more. I think NoA has been very up front in their treatment of it so far. I don't think it hurts Atlus that much because people are already assuming that Nintendo is ultimately pulling the strings with this. So I think Atlus will get a pass on this one.


Also, we've gone so far down the rabbit hole of this discussion and we've yet to answer the most important question of all (raised by ejamer): does this missing DLC even matter in terms of story?

[Ian Sane]

I think it is telling that Nintendo tried to shift blame towards Atlus about the localization.  I thought the backlash Nintendo feared was concerned parents freaking out about objectionable content?  So shouldn't it be "It was us!  We're the ones protecting the children!"  But instead it's "Atlus did it!  They're the ones censoring your game!"  If they know that the likely source of backlash is from the fans that want the game without any cuts and not from concerned parents then why are they making these changes in the first place?  I could see them being completely oblivious to fan backlash but they seem to acknowledge that it will come and have already set up damage control.  Damage control for what you're doing on purpose and could just choose not to do?  Huh?

I think it fair to assume that anything that NCL is not doing but NOA is is NOA's own initiative.  I like to point the finger at Reggie a lot but he's the President and COO of NOA so ultimately decisions NOA makes fall on him since at the very least he didn't overrule.  I think it is unfortunately timing that he rose to his position around the same time and Nintendo's big Wii/DS mainstream lovefest.  He doesn't know games and his first real experience with the industry was during a major mainstream boom.  So I get the feeling that NOA is always looking for that next mainstream hit that will turn the corner and get things back to "normal".  So who is TMS for?  NOA can't conceptualize that because to them, or at least to the current management, games are for the mainstream.  So there is probably some blanket policy on ALL games to scrub certain content because you just never know when that mainstream buck is going to magically return.

[TOPHATANT123]

The Hot Springs DLC apparently being cut just brings me back to my main problem with this release: just who is this game FOR?

This game was made for Japanese audiences. The fact that we're getting it is beside the overall point of the game. Right now it's just a game that fills a spot on the release schedule and nothing more. I think NoA has been very up front in their treatment of it so far. I don't think it hurts Atlus that much because people are already assuming that Nintendo is ultimately pulling the strings with this. So I think Atlus will get a pass on this one.


Also, we've gone so far down the rabbit hole of this discussion and we've yet to answer the most important question of all (raised by ejamer): does this missing DLC even matter in terms of story?

It looks like the hot spring dlc is a swim suit costume for every character plus four 2-3 minute conversations between some of the characters. No gameplay connotations although you would be missing out on some dialogue. Not nearly as substantial as some of the fan service dlc in Fire Emblem.

[ejamer]

... This just shows Nintendo would rather avoid genre savviness in order for a few more bucks. ...

I wonder about this though.

As paid DLC, people who are interested (either in showing support for the game, or in the content itself) would willing buy while people who find it offensive would just ignore the hot springs content.  Why not leave in as much purchasable DLC as possible to maximize profit?  (Maybe the translation cost for that extra content wasn't justified based on the sales estimates for DLC portions - although if the fashion show update is coming then I'd assume this isn't the limiting factor. Only Nintendo would have the numbers to really know.)

...
Also, we've gone so far down the rabbit hole of this discussion and we've yet to answer the most important question of all (raised by ejamer): does this missing DLC even matter in terms of story?

Nobody seems to know, or at least nobody's talking. Seems doubtful, which is why my continued objections are only on principle. Hard to imagine optional DLC set in a hot spring being anything more than silly fan service.

Edit: Missed the post above talking about it. But that confirms what I'd expect.



One final note from me: although I like to blame NoA, since this is apparently a "for all regions" type of localization it's possible that cuts and changes in localization are due to restrictions from other regions, and NoA is just as disappointed at the needless modifications as the vocal minority are.  It's possible.