Topic: Need clarification on a rumor: ATI and Microsoft

[Raze]

I read a post on gamasutra.com which got a source from sprong.com about speculation of ATI signing a production contract with Microsoft. According to this speculation and the source at sprong.com, they say that a "source close to NVIDIA" says that the relationship between Microsoft and Nvidia went bad and that Microsoft is having ATI make their graphics processor instead.

Now, we all know that its old news that Nintendo and ATI already have a contract going for the next Nintendo console. Yet, this news says that ATI is designing the Micosofot console graphics too.... Im finding this extremely difficult to believe, since any proper business would not try to damage an exisiting relationship with a client by working with their competitor. Since ATI and Nintendo already signed the deal for the next gen production, I really doubt that ATI would have gone into contract with Microsoft as well for the same task.

Also, the source... "a source close to Nvidia" isnt exactly selling me on the news. Now if it was a source at ATI, then I could believe it. Personally, I think the translation of all this is "Microsoft pissed off Nvidia and they're trying to stall and buy time to find a way to develop their graphics system" and that ATI has nothing to do with this at all.

Now, why did I post this? I want other people's thoughts on the matter, or any more credible news for or against this bit of information. When the news is posted on places like theregister.com and enquirer.com, it holds no weight... but for a respectable site like gamasutra.com to even mention this, it catches my attention as something that needs to be addressed and resolved with facts.  

[Grey Ninja]

Last I heard, Nintendo didn't own ATI.  That means that ATI should be free to sell their products to whoever is buying.

I must mention that it's extremely likely that Nintendo will order a custom built GPU to meet their needs though, while MS will just throw in a Radeon 9700 or something and call it a day.

[BrianSLA]

Basically Nvidia and Microsoft had a conflict over GPUs for the Xbox and Microsoft will probably go with ATI next generation. As for ATI and Nintendo and ATI and Microsoft...... who will get ATI's next? Who knows. Although I think that ATI will go with Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't want to work with Nvidia again and Nvidia doesn't want to work with Microsoft again.

http://spong.com/index.asp?art=5098

>> extremely likely that Nintendo will order a custom built GPU to meet their needs though, while MS will just throw in a Radeon 9700 or something and call it a day <<

You gotta stop your anti-Microsoft bias. Nobody knows what GPU will be in what machine. Since all 3 will be coming out near simultaneously I will bet that Microsoft will once again have the most powerful rig of the three. Microsoft can afford to do that and will do it to beat the other 2 guys.

 

[KDR_11k]

NVidia didn't adjust their pricing when MS went down with the XBox prices, so MS hopes ATI will.

[Uncle Rich AiAi]

It seems rather strange to me that Nintendo and/or MS would let ATI produce for their rival.  Wouldn't either one of them have something written in the contract stating that ATI can't produce for a rival?

[thecubedcanuck]

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I must mention that it's extremely likely that Nintendo will order a custom built GPU to meet their needs though, while MS will just throw in a Radeon 9700 or something and call it a day.

That is such a biased blanket statement I cant help but laugh at it.
You have ZERO credibility in my books.

[Raze]

Quote
Originally posted by: BrianSLAAs for ATI and Nintendo and ATI and Microsoft...... who will get ATI's next? Who knows. Although I think that ATI will go with Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't want to work with Nvidia again and Nvidia doesn't want to work with Microsoft again.

True, but Nintendo has already signed a contract with ATI, so its not like ATI is going to or even CAN drop them. My question was if this rumor with Microsoft and ATI held any weight. After all, what would a "source close to Nvidia" know about ATI's intent. Im not trying to sound like a fanboy or anything, but the way I translate that article at sprong.com is "Microsoft isnt working with Nvidia, so they're going to try and get a deal with ATI" not what everyone else is translating as "ATI is making the next Microsoft console GPU". I think that people take things out of context too easily.

The reason I made the original post was because I found Gamasutra.com quoting the sprong.com article. While I dont know the validity of sprong.com, I wouldn't imagine a big developer resource like Gamasutra quoting some possible scenario from a 3rd party website. They are usually noted to quote only directly from the parties involved.

I guess I was just seeing if there was any more official word on the matter, meaning directly from ATI. A "source close to Nvidia" does as much for me as someone on a fanboy website telling me "A homeless man named Jojo, who lives around the corner from me told me that...."

[Grey Ninja]

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Originally posted by: BrianSLA
You gotta stop your anti-Microsoft bias. Nobody knows what GPU will be in what machine. Since all 3 will be coming out near simultaneously I will bet that Microsoft will once again have the most powerful rig of the three. Microsoft can afford to do that and will do it to beat the other 2 guys.

I will ignore CubedCanuck's usual practice of flaming anyone who says anything he disagrees with, and instead inform you of why I said that.

I said the Radeon 9700, as it's a fairly recent PC video card that has a lot of respect from PC gamers.  At the moment, the price is too high to put into a console, but by the time Xbox 2 is ready to come out, the Radeon 9700 or its successor might be cheap enough to put into Microsoft's console.  Microsoft CANNOT use a custom built GPU, as their architecture is IDENTICAL to a PC in 95% of the ways.  To create something innovative would destroy the Xbox/PC compatability, and MS isn't willing to do that.

Besides, I didn't say anything bad or biased.  I merely gave my prediction.

Not that I don't hate Microsoft, because I DO.  Anyone with half a brain would know that after a court case PROVING such, Microsoft really doesn't belong in the position that they are.

[mouse_clicker]

"Not that I don't hate Microsoft, because I DO. Anyone with half a brain would know that after a court case PROVING such, Microsoft really doesn't belong in the position that they are."

While I agree with what you said about MS using an existing GPU for their next console, remember that not even Nintendo is free of practicing monopolistic tactics, although to a much less extent than MS in recent times.

"Since all 3 will be coming out near simultaneously I will bet that Microsoft will once again have the most powerful rig of the three. Microsoft can afford to do that and will do it to beat the other 2 guys"

Actually, if you go by existing reports, Nintendo plans to have their next console out in 2005 while mS and Son expect their next consoles out in 2006. Even if you doubt the credibility as such reports, as is perfectly plausible to do, you shouldn't be railing on someone for making a prediction without knowing all the facts when you do the exact same thing yourself.

[Grey Ninja]

Thanks mouseclicker.  I do know that Nintendo isn't clean either, but it's without question that MS is the classic evil corporation.  Some of their tactics are just completely scummy.  I try to keep my hatred of MS out of discussions about the Xbox though, and I was merely emphasizing that in my post.  I try not to ever make such baseless posts such as "Xbox is teh queer" or something like that.  I will always have a reason for what I say, and if it's not clear, ask and I will tell.

[AERO]

If I remember correctly spong.com is not considered a reputable site.  

[nonjagged]

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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck

Quote
I must mention that it's extremely likely that Nintendo will order a custom built GPU to meet their needs though, while MS will just throw in a Radeon 9700 or something and call it a day.

That is such a biased blanket statement I cant help but laugh at it.
You have ZERO credibility in my books.

Biased blanket statement only in your eyes.
I agree with Grey N's generalised comment.

Nintendo is far more inclined to create customised GPU's that works far more efficiently than M$'s architecture.
M$ cannot afford to and will not steer to far from a PC platform using Direct X, while PC franchises keep the Xbox platforms afloat.

And ATI want to crush Nvidia thats why ATI have accepted the Xbox job. ATI want to totally make use of DirectX better than Nvidia can and ATI have stated they are totally competitive to eliminate Nvidia as a competitor.

I just hope Nintendo doesnt drop a bomb on us and say we are partnering with Someone Else etc rather than ATI.

It also appears M$ are actually waking up and learning form their mistakes to not think that going with the most powerful GPU will mean you win the console war. Its all about balancing hardware and making a profit while doing so. Clearly the Xbox was the opposite of that philosophy.

Oh and Im still waiting for the Megaton = Free Online Gamecube Gaming. Shouldnt be too long. If I can remember Iwata siad in the near future.

MeGaToN.

[Grey Ninja]

Well, IGN seems to agree with me so far.  They said that ATI is hard at work designing the GPU for Nintendo's next console.  Judging from history, it's likely that MS will use an off the shelf Video Card with a couple extra features again.

So far, my extremely biased, non-credible statement is turning out just fine.    But was it seriously unexpected?  Nintendo has ALWAYS used custom built parts in their consoles, dating all the way back to the NES and Game and Watch.  They don't make PCs, they make consoles.  MS makes PCs.

[AERO]

I don't really have an opinion on this but something to think about. Microsofts "history" in console gaming spans ONE generation. Don't you think its a little to soon to judge what they are going to do with Xbox 2 becuase of that?  

[KDR_11k]

The XB's GPU was custom buit, as far as I remember. Just because it's custom doesn't mean it won't work with DirectX, which is enough to ensure PC compatibility. Hell, they could build a completely different machine this time as long as the DirectX abstraction is identical.

[Grey Ninja]

AERO, I know the Xbox's architecture, and I know MS well enough that I think I can make a pretty educated guess about what the next console will be like.  Calling me a biased moron for making a guess isn't really my idea of an intelligent argument.  But then again, this IS CubedCanuck we are talking about, so I guess I should have expected something like that.

Anyways, KDR, the GPU on the Xbox is a GeForce3 with a higher clock speed, and an extra shader.  That's about it.  I suppose it could be called custom in a very loose sense of the word, but compare Flipper to the XGPU, and you will see what I am talking about.

[manunited4eva22]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the flipper going to be released as a PC chip in the first place? At any rate, the XGPU is basically a Geforce 3 1/2 in terms of added features, but is still a tad behind the geforce 3 in raw power.

As for the architecture of the flipper, god knows what it is, I honestly have never looked into it.

As for the article on Spong.com, I have comments about it in the Fast Forward section.

[Grey Ninja]

The Flipper was designed from the ground up for the GameCube by ArtX.  It also incorporates the GameCube's DSP, so it's not like it would really go over that well in the PC market.

[manunited4eva22]

Well I was part right anyway, it was based off of ArtX's older chips.

Flipper Info

[Raze]

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And ATI want to crush Nvidia thats why ATI have accepted the Xbox job.

The original point of this post was to see if this was true in any form....sprong.com mentioned this on their site, but no other site had posted anything on ATI's stance in this. As of right now, it sounds more like Microsoft needing someone to make their GPU...a "source close to Nvidia" isnt quite selling the idea that ATI has accepted the Microsoft offer, if one was even made yet. I was asking around to see if there's anything out their with more weight to it, something like a quote from ATI on the issue.

[Grey Ninja]

So far the only thing ATI has said officially on the matter is that they like to have more dealings with Nintendo in the future.

That's it.