Topic: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta

[Mop it up]

I tried the demo, it's okay. The controls aren't as complex as I thought they might be so that's a plus, but there's a lot of stuff going on and it's tough to keep track of everything. I almost got killed a couple of times in the demo, and I would have if there wasn't something that restored my health. Not sure what it was, whether it was a move or scene change or something. The theme of the game doesn't appeal to me at all.

I wasn't planning on buying this game and trying this demo just confirmed that.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I specifically got the first on PS3 when this was announced to see what all the fuss was about. I liked the game but there was too much going on to follow it. One of the reasons why I lost interest in Smash Bros once Brawl hit the scene. I enjoy the gameplay style of Bayonetta but I don't like the clutter. I haven't tried the demo but I might see if I get to it this weekend maybe.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

It's sensory overload to the fullest extent! There is so much going on, its really hard to discern what the hell I'm doing but I'm having a helleva  time doing it. Much like taking on a Star Destroyer with an X -wing, I love huge bosses that could be the final boss in any other game that wasn't made by Platinum*.  I'm going full in on this bitch come Halloween.

[BranDonk Kong]

I keep forgetting to download the demo. Hopefully I'll catch Epilepsy when I play it.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

I keep forgetting to download the demo. Hopefully I'll catch Epilepsy when I play it.

It's like getting caught in some high-level Genjutsu.

[BranDonk Kong]

Just played the demo...it's not for me. It's basically like Devil May Cry on speed and LSD.

[Shaymin]

And Viagra.

I think I pre-called Bayo 2 as my 2014 GOTY at the end of last year. The demo has made me more confident in that selection.

[ShyGuy]

These reactions seem weird. I am no huge player of Character action games, but I didn't think it was all that hard to keep track of. The demo felt more streamlined than Wonderful 101.

[azeke]

I guess that's the best i can do...

I nearly memorized Verse 1 so can consistently Pure it:

after around 20 retries or so

Then i fumble around on Verse 2 with a train, mess up my dodges and take damage, netting Silver.

Gomorra part is no problem at all, i already had it Pure'd a few times, but this time for some reason i took too much time and got Gold on time:


Despite bad verse 2 i still get Platinum overall, which is around my level of play.


Even if i can platinum the entire game i usually pull rating up to Platinum by getting a few Pures and majority of Plats with some odd Golds or even Silvers where i was just not "gud" enough.

[Fatty The Hutt]

Azeke, you so hardcore man!
Looking forward to another player's guide thread for Bayo 2 like you did for W101

[azeke]

Azeke, you so hardcore man!
Looking forward to another player's guide thread for Bayo 2 like you did for W101

There is no point for me to write a guide.

First Bayo is super casual friendy.
Secondy, B2 appears to be very iterative over 1 mechanics wise, so majority of already available guides should work for 2 just fine.
And lastly and most importantly, there are already much more talented people on the case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BNUfsCVIv8
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQeKbtsCa950sgzUWWrxLBQbDk_zpUhfB

[Mop it up]

These reactions seem weird. I am no huge player of Character action games, but I didn't think it was all that hard to keep track of. The demo felt more streamlined than Wonderful 101.

I think my issue is that I was attempting to play more carefully and strategically, whereas from what other people have said, it would seem I'd be better off just mashing buttons.

[azeke]

My fingers hurt.

I am playing both Bayonetta games basically non-stop since i downloaded them.

Bayonetta so far looks easier than first game. I picked "Third Climax" mode (this should correspond to Hard) and it's easier than Normal in original game. I am getting Platinums and Pure Platinums on first try:


Level 3 with a boss killed me for the first time -- i just didn't know any of the tells. Next level also had a boss in the end and it was AMAZING. It starts with Bayo and Luman Sage fighting one on one and ends with giant forces of Heaven and Hell going at each other. I think i died like ten times there.

Playing both games from the start i get reminded how much stuff you have to buy before you get all upgrades. I am basically gridning, destroying everything on the levels for halos:



As i am playing Bayonetta 1 on Wii U, i started Platinum-ing levels:

Yeah, it's nothing special on Normal, but i don't really have much in terms of upgrades (not having Bat Within that increases the timing window for Witch Time dodge messes me up because i become too reliant on it). I am fighting the temptation to resort to cheat codes to unlock everything i already have on Xbox.

Spent half of day trying to Pure Platinum first proper level after Prologue. It's surprisingly hard. Again without Bat Within there is always that one time where mess up my dodge and get hit. Or i forget about some secret mission or alfheim and this ruins overall score even if i got Pure Platinums on everything else:

[azeke]

First episode of Umbran Arts is out. When Saur said comprehensive he meant it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqzztvoVngY

I'd say there are even too many details of such minute and intuitive stuff like movement and targeting.

[Stratos]

Tried the demo finally and had a blast with the game. It was thankfully not as overwhelming as some of the videos made it seem. I suspect that it will ramp up at you progress but it did the job of making me more excited for the game. I suppose I should open up W101 and play through that before I get this game. Won't be grabbing it until some time next year when my possible raise kicks in.

[azeke]

Despite having new Bayo 2 hotness, i find myself having way too much fun coming back to old reliable Bayo 1, on two platforms even. So i finished platinum run on Hard on 360, and started Normal Pure Platinum run on Wii U.

I had to almost force myself to put some times into 2 as well:




While i haven't beaten the game yet (finished chapter IX last night), i can make some preliminary conclusions.

Bayonetta 2 is a very safe sequel. There is nothing mechanically new here. Instead it does away with bad stuff people didn't like (insta-death QTE and gimmick sections) and retreads on the same stuff 1 had.

First game was absolutely groundbreaking and brought a whole package of innovations and improvements into the action genre: witch time, extremely tight controls, dodge offset for flowing combos, ranking system that doesn't punish exploration.

The only gameplay feature from 1 to 2 looks to be Tag Climax online co-op mode, which i only played once, but it looks very fun.

You might even say there is a slight downgrade in enemy design now that some enemies and bosses of B2 are highly dependent on you activating Witch Time, while B1 had an entire difficulty mode past Hard without WT.

B1 was designed in a way so witch time is a crutch that you grow out of as you play the game. Once you really, really mastered the game -- you don't need witch time.

Story in B1 also i think was a bit better. It wasn't any good to begin with, mind you, plot in 1 was mostly incomprehensible but it was still charming in a way. In B2, the first story cutscene that made me care about what's going on happened last night in chapter IX which by my estimation is past the middle of a game.

At least, if you can't engage me with writing in the slightest, put some wacky scenes in. B1 had more crazy funny stuff, B2 feels way more somber and serious by comparison.

The main good thing B2 brings is great looking graphics and brighter colour palette.

Otherwise it's looking to be the weakest of all three Wii U Platinum games, but still an amazing game.

[azeke]

This is the worst feeling:


Pure Platinum streak ruined by a regular Platinum in the second to last verse...

After that i tried to do this level again twice but had to stop after getting unpure Platinums even earlier, so the sting isn't that bad but still it's rather crushing. I think i need to change something, maybe stop using shotguns because they kill enemies too fast.

[azeke]

After banging my head against a wall trying to Pure Platinum that blasted level here ^ for the third day in a row, i've had enough and switched to 2.

As i unlocked more weapons game instantly became even better.

Hammer:

Very satisfying weapon to use -- swinging animation, charging, sound effects, impact.

Chainsaws on arms and legs:

Also super fun to use.

Rodin is just absolutely badass:

The was a section when we fought together and i barely had to do anything -- he was wiping the floor with everyone and i barely had any enemy left for me. I can't wait to play as him in Tag Climax online mode.

Also, Ben Ruiz developer of upcoming beat'em'up game Aztez has posted Pure Platinum walkthrough of the first level of Bayo 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smKojt_XMzw

It's not "perfect" perfect (could have used some taunting), but it's showcases variety of weapons and strategy that goes into Pure Platinum runs very well.

[Adrock]

I started Bayonetta 1. Listening to Bootleg Joe Pesci is already old. I'm pretty much just mashing buttons and dodging. I looked up some of the unlocks. The one I want requires Platinum Medals on all chapters in Normal mode. Yeah... I don't think that's going to happen. I still have no idea why Bayonetta stands like that. It hardly looks comfortable.

The game still looks good, but after playing the demo of Bayonetta 2, it's noticeably worse. That's expected as Bayonetta 1 is a five year old game though I'm not sure if I was giving Bayonetta 1 too much credit or giving Bayonetta 2 too little.

[azeke]

I started Bayonetta 1. Listening to Bootleg Joe Pesci is already old.

In both games, Enzo only appears in the beginning and disappears for the rest of the game.

I looked up some of the unlocks. The one I want requires Platinum Medals on all chapters in Normal mode. Yeah... I don't think that's going to happen.

Jeanne? The tradeoff is not that great. Though i've yet to put any significant time with this character.

Also Platinuming Normal is pretty easy. It just takes some time.

Do research and look up where all secret verses and alfheims are. Then make sure to get a few (Pure) Platinum on easy verses (on long missions there are usually three-four of them that last about 20 seconds), then you can relax and get golds/silvers and it will average out to overall Platinum on the level.

Alfheims are good to farm Platinums, because if you die in there, deaths doesn't count. Usually when i get hit at all, i give up and let angels kill me to restart alfheim. Rinse and repeat until i reach pure platinum.

There is yet another trick with auto-save, but you don't need that just to get Platinum on all levels. Pure Platinum-ing on the other hand will require some intense abusing of auto-saves, though.

The gap in skill and time commitment between regular Platinums and Pure Platinums is huge. But it's still very doable:

I still have no idea why Bayonetta stands like that. It hardly looks comfortable.

It's supposed to look like old-timey fashion art with stylisized proportions:


Same with art deco-ish architecture and remixing songs from 1950s..

[Adrock]

Jeanne? The tradeoff is not that great. Though i've yet to put any significant time with this character.

Yeah. I just like the character. First things first, I want to finish each game once so I don't add to my ridiculous backlog. I'll worry about unlocks later though this is the one I'm most interested in.

Also Platinuming Normal is pretty easy. It just takes some time.

Unfortunately, time is a luxury I don't always have. I get a lot of burn on video games playing on the go. When I don't have a choice but to sit at a laundromat, I can make some real progress.

Do research and look up where all secret verses and alfheims are. Then make sure to get a few (Pure) Platinum on easy verses (on long missions there are usually three-four of them that last about 20 seconds), then you can relax and get golds/silvers and it will average out to overall Platinum on the level.

Easier said than done for someone of meager gaming skill. I tried the first Alfheim many, many times and I couldn't complete it in time. When I didn't totally screw up the timing on Witch Time, I'd get to the last set of enemies and just run out of time. I think I just need better items/equipment so I decided to forge ahead and hopefully, if I'm diligent, I'll go back to it. I definitely like the game enough. There are certain games I like knowing I completed specific tasks such as Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D. Some of those stages were so infuriating, but I wanted to conquer them.

Anyway, I just got to Chapter 2. The camera is kind of annoying in spots, but it isn't game breaking.

[azeke]

Umbran Arts episode 2 is out. It's about Witch Time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ap4QxTZDQ

Unfortunately, it's not super informative. And it's not just in my eyes, obviously i know the basics after spending many a hundreds of hours with the game, but even then Saur simply doesn't have much material in there. He basically spends 7 minutes to say "press dodge button to dodge".

Despite playing the game almost religiously for two years, i STILL find new tricks and see new challenges to overcome. Like, just last week i learned that depending on if you hold or tap the punch button with the sword will decide if you will float in the air hitting the enemy or will lunge to the ground with the sword out.

Umbran Arts is just moving too slowly to get the "good stuff".

The advice to learn the timing for dodges by going into graveyard in Prologue and doing nothing but dodging is very useful but it's also very "well, DUH!".

[azeke]

I am done with Bayo 1 (33 hours on save file):


Haha, not even close!

I've yet to delve into harder difficulties, yet to beat an hour long Lost Chapter endurance level, yet to beat final final secret boss, yet to unlock like a dozen of hidden weapons and unlocks.

And that's just for one playable character. Add two more -- you can triple all that.

But most importantly -- i've simply yet to git gud at Bayonetta for real.

Pure Platinum-ing last boss was hard because of insane combo requirement. The part makes it hard is that most of the attacks Jubileus does are very disruptive and will almost always make you break your combo.

I had to do some rather advanced (for me) panther offsets to keep my combo up and reach enough combo points required.

Now that i "beat" the game on Wii U, i can compare it to original X360:

UI (UI is my proffesional specialty so i never miss out to ramble on it):
Button prompts with grey colourless boring buttons feel very off after playing Bayonetta 1 on 360. Red/yellow/blue/green button prompts stood out instantly while still having the same Art Nouveau styling as the rest of the game. As busted as PS3 port was but even there UI was made fit into the game too.

On Wii U button prompts stick out like sore thumbs -- they are not reworked into game's overall aesthetic and are just copy pasted from the manual or something.

Also because modern Nintendo control layout (outside of New 3DS) has no coloured buttons game loses one of the means to communicate with you. Like in one of the annoying instant death QTEs you actually get a warning a full second in advance before QTE prompt even shows up in the form of a shrinking circle:



The colour of a circle is actually telling you which button exactly you need to hit.

Colouring scheme is not all lost -- both Bayo 1 and 2 uses Famicom coloured button layout on some screens but this colour scheme is simply not present on actual physical buttons on your controller so that kinda falls flat.

During dreaded by some (not by me, as you see i've Pure Platinumed them rather easily) bike and missile sections you have a huge button prompt to press Y which shows you help screen showing how to control. This is actually kinda annoying because i kept pressing Y many times by mistake and it took me quite some time to exit this dialogue.

Also for some stupid reason they added motion control for these sections and they're also on by default.

Game shows the same picture on Gamepad as on TV, but it also shows rather ugly and not-fitting Miiverse icon in the corner at all times. I would be fine with it if only they reworked the icon to make it fit more into the style but they didn't...

It's not all bad though -- surprisingly touchscreen controls despite being worthless way to control the game have a very cool application in this port. During button mashing finishers you can mash both the button AND touchscreen prompt directly on gamepad, boosting your mashing considerably. Without it my maximum of mashing was 1100 points, with this trick i have seemingly hit the mashing ceiling of 1500 points.

This isn't just for kicks because these points go into your combo and have your current combo multiplier applied to them meaning that if you reach 9.9 multiplier by the end of a fight you get extra 15 000 points for free, basically.

Graphics comparisons:
It feels on par with Xbox version. Can't really tell you juicy details about framerate -- i kinda stop noticing it after 30 fps. It feels fine, same as in 360. I am sensitive to slowdown though.

There were a few isolated instances where game slowed down considerably, it felt like i was suddenly submerged into honey and could barely move. It happened to me in Jubileus boss battle where game bombarded me with epic galactic scale effects and during boss battle with plant angel. It felt like in these two cases i had more severe slowdown than in Xbox 360 original.

Aside from all that there are some minor control differences between two version -- like the same combos now require somewhat different timings and somewhat different input buffering behavior, but it's not a big deal and i can adjust between them in literally seconds.

[azeke]

I lost interest in playing 2 for some time and had to force myself a bit to even finish it. Mostly because i was busy Pure Platinum'ing first game and then i was playing other games in December.

So after finishing it -- yep, this isn't on the level or B1 or W101 PG games. Out of the games on Wii U: TW101>Bayo 1>Bayo 2.

It's still in higher league of Platinum games, but not quite close to the level of polish, variety and originality of W101 or the first Bayo game.

It's still an amazing game and runs circles around any other game i played this year in terms of satisfying combat, but it loses quite a lot in trying to casualize the first game. It was successful in that, seeing how critical reception was far more tolerable than to first game.

Default difficulty which masks behind "2nd Climax" name is actually "Easy". Health and invincibility items now don't influence ranks.

One of the most amazing feats of the first game is that the main gameplay progression was outside of the story. It was the story of YOU, the story of the PLAYER learning to play Bayonetta: first by beating the game on Normal/Easy, then going for Platinum rank, then going for higher difficulties and then when you finally master the game for real you start Non-Stop Infinite Climax where you grow out of Witch Time and don't even need it.

Bayo 2 has completely broken this progression it by making Witch Time mandatory. Not only this breaks your progression of mastering the game but this also turns ALL boss battles into epileptic sequences of going in and out of Witch Time each three seconds which completely breaks the flow of the combat.

The bosses itself. While Bayo 1 was (rightfully) criticized for having too many "hands and head" bosses, Bayo 2 has an even worse variety of bosses.

Even the story of 1, as much as dumb and incomprehensible as it was, is still somehow better than sequel's. The way this game turns itself into a prequel to the first game was cool though.

Final battle while still cool (i chuckled at cameo from Vanquish space station AKA Shirogane comet) was largely inferior to the orgasmic finales of B1 and W101..

The only good thing 2 has gorgeous graphics and online tag mode.

Oh and Umbran Climax which breaks the game even further with how overpowered and unbalanced it is.

After you beat the game once, you immediately unlock two more playable characters for campaign, compared to the first game where you had to get all Platinums on Normal to unlock additional playable character. Also thankfully this time you can switch into all unlockable characters within the same save file.

I played Prologue with Rosa -- she is COMPLETELY OP broken.

Ah well, it's still a great game. And probably a better introduction into character action genre.

Oh and i guess this starts my Pure Platinum run of 2:

[azeke]

My B2 Pure Platinum got stuck on chapter 13 or so... One of the reasons why is because i started Pure Platinuming Hard from first game, Pured upto bike level already...

Also, yoshiesque started LP of Bayonetta 2:

Just like with the first game it's gonna be Pure as well. I wonder if she will do those crazy background research episodes like she did for the first game like the ones about ballet or tortures...