Author Topic: Can Nintendo survive not being #1  (Read 12857 times)

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Offline Hostile Creation

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Can Nintendo survive not being #1
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2003, 06:44:44 PM »
Same here.  I'm still playing A Link to the Past a bit, and I still play all my other 64 games (Star Fox, Kirby, etc.).  But no Ocarina.  Or Majora's Mask, for that matter.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2003, 08:27:51 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ninja X
Quote

Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin
I went back to playing OoT after WW, and it was static, lifeless, stiff, and, to say the least, boring. Even the more tender moments like Saria's goodbye to Link at the start as boring.


I did the same thing...and I found OoT to be two times better than The Wind Waker...


Really? I know that some people may think that we're knocking OoT just to make WW sound better, but it really is better. WW was waay more epic, and just about everything else was better than OoT.
Some people complain that sailing was tedious. Yeah, I guess, but if you want it to be realistic, the islands would be waaay closer together, but the boat would be heaps slower, so it practically be the same. Trust me. We sailed the Whitsunday Islands for a week earlier this year on a 12 meter catamaran, and the islands looked so close together, but it took AGES to get to the islands, even with the motor. A sailboat like that can't go that fast, but at least it's better than having it truly realistic.
I think this is what Nintendo mean when they say that if they want something to be realistic, it has to be truly realistic.

Sorry to be a little off topic, but anyway, what was it about WW that OoT did better, other than being the first 3D Zelda, and the cel-shaded graphics (they really are good)?
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Offline Round Eye

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Can Nintendo survive not being #1
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2003, 04:43:04 AM »
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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
You can deny it if you want, but the early release date was the reason PS2 sold so much.  Obviously not the sole reason, of course.  The first Playstation was immensely popular, and they have a ton of ads.  Those helped a great deal.  But people want the best stuff as soon as they can get it, and Playstation came out first, so they got it.  And it's still considered to be as good as the other two systems, so they don't necessarily need to buy another one.  


What happened to the Dreamcast then?  They were out before everybody.

I think the PS2 had a few things going for it.  Backwards capability, equals instant user base of people who owned the original PS.  DVD player, back then it was cool and not everyone had one.  Advanced lead time, the only competition was the Dreamcast, and when that went down Sony earned even more credibilty as a winning system.

Nintendo could learn a few things from Sony.  I don't think they need the DVD player, everyone has one of those.  And they need to hype the system more than they do, advetising works.  Look what it has done for the Xbox.

PS2 considered to be as good as the other two, not by me.  That piece of hardware is freakin archaic, but Sony has always had success with mediocore hardware.


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Offline Hostile Creation

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« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2003, 07:15:26 AM »
Aside from no one knowing about Dreamcast, many of the people that did considered it a really late N64/playstation generation system, rather than the first new one.  There's a fine line between old and new.
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Offline Ninja X

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« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2003, 01:25:50 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin


Sorry to be a little off topic, but anyway, what was it about WW that OoT did better, other than being the first 3D Zelda, and the cel-shaded graphics (they really are good)?


Well...I started playing OoT perhaps a couple weeks after beating WW.  I was fueled into playing OoT since I never really cleared the game 100%.  

Well...anyway...the nostalgia factor set in and I remember all the great locales and dungeons.  That is one thing that WW cannot top due to obvious reasons.

Another reason, though, is the epic-ness of the quest.  Yes, Wind Waker is deep, but it never had the feeling of a true epic to me.  Just let me remind everybody of the epic of OoT...

OoT's epic:
A child of destiny sets out on a quest assigned to him by his leader The Great Deku Tree and the Princess of Hyrule, Zelda.  In turn, Link rescues the Gorons from a deadly famine, gets rid of the evil within the Zora deity and saves the Zora princess.  After receiving three stones needed to open the Door of Time, Link goes to Hyrule Castle only to see Zelda escaping and view Ganondorf, the King of Thieves, for the first time.  After their confrontation, Link obtains the Ocarina of Time that Zelda left him.  With the stones and the Ocarina of Time in hand, Link opens the majestic Door of Time in the Temple of Time to obtain the legendary blade of evil's bane, the Master Sword.  Alas, but Ganondorf followed him and discovered the passageway that led to the Triforce.  Due to not being old enough to hold the Master Sword, Link is sealed in the Sacred Realm for seven long years.  In that time, Ganondorf takes control of the Triforce of Power and conquers both the Sacred Realm and Hyrule.  Link eventually comes back in adult form, however, and is told by Rauru he is the legendary Hero of Time destined to save Hyrule from the King of Evil himself.  In order to do so, he must use the Master Sword to rid the great six temples of the world from evil in order to awaken the Sages necessary to seal Ganon and his power away.  With a help from a mysterious sheikah and various friends, he saves the dying forest from its grave, the Gorons from genocide (lack of a better word), the Zora from a frozen prison, the Shadow Temple from the evil that contaminates it, and befriends the Gerudos, a race that believes men are weak and useless besides Ganondorf.  He goes through trials and obstacles in each of the five dungeons he must traverse through, only to emerge victorious and with six sages awakened.  Link returns to the Temple of Time, only to find the Princess he had not seen in seven years.  With a short introduction, the Princess gives him the weapon of justice, the Light Arrow.  Unfortunately, Ganondorf detects her and captures her, thus securing a piece of the Triforce.  He only had one more triforce left, the one within Link...thus setting the grand battle between the Hero of Time and the King of Evil!

Tell me that is not a grand epic...that epic, IMO, easily outweighs WW's epic...

Also, the temples in OoT are a lot better in desing IMO than the Wind Waker.  The Wind Waker's dungeons were awkwardly designed.  I didn't like the forest nor the Earth Temple much at all.  They were a bit too linear.  The Earth Temple would have you advancing floor by floor, when most of OoT's dungeons had you hopping between floors in order to progress within that dungeon.  And the forest was cool in certain areas, but it was not dungeon-like.  Perhaps that outdoor feel did not suit it well at all for me.

The bosses in OoT still rock to this day.  Gohma, King Dodongo, Barinade, Phantom Ganon, Volvagia and others still are awesome bosses, regardless of how they look compared to WW's bosses.  WW had great bosses, but the boss introductions and difficulty of the OoT bosses beat out WW's bosses.

Speaking of difficulty, man, in WW, I did not even have to worry about dying.  Replaying OoT for the fourth or fifth time, I still died twice.  Playing through WW for the first time, I have no game overs and never even came close to one.  I absolutely hated that aspect of WW.

And the WW's Great Sea disappointed me.  I know of time restraints on development and all that, but the oceans had too many small islands that served one or two purpose(s).   Only five locales existed that are of great size: Outset Island, the Forest Haven, Dragon Rock Island, Windfall Island, and Ganondorf's fortress on the sea (forgot its name).  Only three of these islands had a good amount of side quests.  Only two had the type of liveliness many claim is in the Wind Waker.  Maybe it was my expectations, but many people, including critics, built up the ocean as immense with many islands scattered around it.  When I first sailed around the Great Sea chartering territory and looking for side-quests, I was disappointed.  I did not expect this many small islands.  It would have been sweet if another island similar to Windfall Island in depth took the place of one of the smaller islands...

I have a couple other nitpicks, but I'm done as for now.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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Can Nintendo survive not being #1
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2003, 02:59:36 PM »
I do not know how you prefer OoT, but heck, I suppose some people have to.  I actually feel sort of bad about preferring WW.  But that doesn't change the fact that I do like it more.  It's fine that you like OoT, but I personally like WW more.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: Can Nintendo survive not being #1
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2003, 07:00:54 PM »
Ninja X: Ok OK. I think I'll stop there. I don't want this to be a battle of Oot is better than WW, since both games were great, i mean, heck, what games of the same series can score 40/40 from Famitsu? Both were epic games, but to me (and I'm not gonna rant anymore about this), despite the amount of dungeons in OoT, WW IS literally the larger game.
If you can get into OoT now after playing WW, then good for you, and anyone else that can. I just can't seem to anymore.
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Offline Ninja X

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Can Nintendo survive not being #1
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2003, 09:27:38 AM »
Sorry about my long post, but those are the main reasons I like OoT over WW.  WW is great.  I just wanted to mention that I was NOT badmouthing it in any way.  Termin8Anakin, it seems other people cannot get into OoT as well due to the slow speed.  I read an interview where Miyamoto himself said he cannot believe how slow OoT ran in comparison to WW.  I don't seem to be having that problem myself, but hell, you know what game I've been having a problem with recently...Perfect Dark.  Too...much...blurring...it gave me a badass migraine.  
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Offline mouse_clicker

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Can Nintendo survive not being #1
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2003, 10:03:47 AM »
Jesus- this thread started off as a serious proposal of whether or not Nintendo needs to be number one to survive and now you're debating whether Wind Waker is better than Ocarina of Time? In only 57 posts this thread managed to go from a serious topic to incoherent ramblings about something that is in no way connected to the original subject matter. Astounding.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: Can Nintendo survive not being #1
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2003, 07:49:54 PM »
Ninja X: Haha. yeah i know what you mean.
Perfect Dark, i think, was too detailed for it's own good.

Back to topic.
Everyone wants to be number 1.
It's trying to hold that spot that's hard.
We see Sony advertising harder than ever, but that's because they're trying to keep secure in case they make a few stuff ups. Nintendo needs to try harder than Sony. I think those public events they hold are great. It's a commercial that people participate in. Although they lose some money when they give free stuff away, i guess it's worth it.
Nintendo is trying hard to be number 1, but when they get there, it's going to  a harder road, cause you can be toppled instantly by simply making one mistake.
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