Topic: Nintendo Cuts Wii U Sales Forecast

[Kytim89]

Making the GamePad optional would require Nintendo to rewrite pretty much all code in the system software including the eshop and Miiverse. Additionally, several games wouldn't even work without it and making a once included controller optional complicates things. Wii U IS the GamePad. It's too ingrained in the console's DNA to be sold separately as an optional purchase. Nintendo could make the GamePad optional in a successor. However, I think it's more likely that Nintendo improves upon it and continues making it slimmer and lighter. And no, kytim, they wouldn't make it Vita-sized.

Adrock, the idea of the Vita sized Gamepad was for the Wii U successor. Later in the decade wi-fi will have improved enough to allow Nintendo to make a smaller  Gamepad about the size of a Vita that can play games anywhere via cloud streaming. 

[Oblivion]

WiFi is fine where it is. It's the ISPs that need to get their act together. Don't confuse one for the other.

[Stratos]

Speaking of ISPs, the day after I read about the courts throwing out the rules on net neutrality I notice that certain parts of the internet are running slower that never have before.

[Oblivion]

You sure that isn't a coincidence?

[Adrock]

Adrock, the idea of the Vita sized Gamepad was for the Wii U successor. Later in the decade wi-fi will have improved enough to allow Nintendo to make a smaller  Gamepad about the size of a Vita that can play games anywhere via cloud streaming. 

The previous time you brought that up was most certainly the first time. You've been pushing that thought for a while now. I'm still not quite sure why you would want the screen to be smaller. To carrying around more easily? No thanks. I don't want a worse home experience for a better on-the-go experience.

[Adrock]

*not the first time

[BlackNMild2k1]

The name, no marketing, very similar console design and complete focus on the GamePad is what led to lackluster initial sales, because a lot of the general public was confused as to what Nintendo was selling.

Add-on for the Wii? New system? Who knows, Nintendo wasn't working very hard to make it absolutely clear.

And no, there will not be a rebranding minus the game pad, that is far to much work for Nintendo.

[Oblivion]

I fail to see how concentrating on the GamePad is a bad thing.

[Adrock]

In terms of unveiling the console, focusing on the GamePad made it unclear that Nintendo was launching a successor rather than an accessory for the original Wii. Nintendo picked every worst choice in that respect. The only way they could have been more confusing would be if they didn't change the name or design at all.

[smallsharkbigbite]

The name, no marketing, very similar console design and complete focus on the GamePad is what led to lackluster initial sales, because a lot of the general public was confused as to what Nintendo was selling.

While I don't disagree that those were mistakes, I think it comes back to games and Nintendo doesn't have the games the market wants.  Wii Sports sold the Wii because it was reasonably priced and motion controls were the "new" (innovative) thing when they came out.  Now they aren't and the best selling console (PS4) put motion controls in the back seat. 


Nintendo thought the gamepad was innovative and it isn't.  I know it's not a tablet, but it's hard not to compare the two since most people have both (or at least a tablet).  Tablets have much higher res screens, multi-touch, much better OS systems, and much cheaper (and more extensive) software.  That's not to say the gamepad is bad (I like it mostly), but people aren't going to buy a Wii U for the gamepad.  They are going to buy a Wii U for games and many people find it lacking in that regard. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Yeah, but people also weren't going to buy the gamepad for the Wii, which was kinda a problem since that's what they thought it was for. The games may have generated an interest, but they still would have been confused when they got to the store only to realize it wasn't for the Wii and it wasn't a tablet or handheld.
This was a total failure in marketing, design and follow through.

[Ian Sane]

The name is bad but the console has squat for third party support and Nintendo themselves were caught off guard by HD development (which is probably the most idiotic thing about the Wii U; how do you not notice what literally every other company in your industry was going through years ago?) and release games at a snail's pace.  Give it whatever name you want, that still makes for a very unappealing product.

The Wii U isn't some great console with a bad name and bungled marketing campaign.  It is a weak product and its low sales are completely justified.  The name was just one of many things Nintendo screwed up but it is nuts to think that if they just had a better name it would all be different.

[BlackNMild2k1]

What's even more ironic is that Iwata discussed the up him battle with HD development before the gen started and said how they have been studying it and were ready. But did they flunk that test. Guess they grabbed the wrong book for that study session.

[Ian Sane]

What's even more ironic is that Iwata discussed the up him battle with HD development before the gen started and said how they have been studying it and were ready. But did they flunk that test. Guess they grabbed the wrong book for that study session.

In retrospect I'm assuming that this was just the canned excuse Nintendo came up with to placate their fans and that they themselves never believed it.  Either that or they figured because it wouldn't affect THEM and that all those other companies are just idiots that aren't as S-M-R-T as Nintendo!

Here's something to think about: what impact is this piece of news going to have on the Wii U's future?  Now I don't expect the average Joe to even know about this but any hardcore gamer knows and is probably thinking that the Wii U has no future and that they shouldn't buy one.  You don't want people to think your videogame system is a flop or they'll be cautious about buying it and then that will just snowball and the system really won't have a future.  And you know GameStop employees can be obnoxious fanboys so there will be potential customers being told that the Wii U is getting discontinued by salespeople somewhere.  Kids will be spreading this all over the schoolyard.

I've been in favour of Nintendo replacing the Wii U ASAP and I think part of the justification for that would be that the Wii U's status as a flop is just going to create negative word-of-mouth the longer Nintendo sticks with it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Thanks for excusing and reading past all the spelling errors in that post that were due to using a tablet with swype and not proof-reading three times over to make sure it wasn't auto correcting/changing my spelling/words.
That was almost illegible.

But I think a redesign of the console itself along with releasing it in Blue and Silver while jump starting a new campaign focusing on the console as being NEW and the emphasizing the use of the gamepad to do things away from and in unison with the TV might give the brand a shot in the arm.

Dropping the system outright and rebooting with something else is gonna get ignored, much like the Dreamcast, and that will be hard to recover from. The trust will have been lost and the buyers will have felt burned.

[Stratos]

They could be releasing new models with more storage space and things like improved battery life. Gets new people looking again and could get people to upgrade. Like with the DSi or the XL.

[BlackNMild2k1]

That is certainly something they should consider.

extended battery in all the gamepads, 64GB internal storage standard & $5 eShop credit with pack-in of Nintendoland (digital copy) & SM3DW (disc copy).

and make it not look like an external HDD or a Wii. and include a manufacturers coupon to save $10 off a 3rd party game on a specific list of supporting new popular 3rd party games.

Lets spend a little and gamble on consumer awareness turning things around.

[Stratos]

Or we could do a true deluxe release with the Wii U XL and make the Gamepad capable of playing 3DS games.


We had the Super Gameboy on the SNES, play through the N64 Transfer Pak (with Pokemon Stadium) and also the Gameboy Player on the Gamecube. Give us a way to play DS/3DS games on the big screen and that adds more value to the system.

[BlackNMild2k1]

That would certainly give them reason to start releasing all the 3DS games digitally so that they can be played on your Wii U.

so many ways for Nintendo to make money off their games yet they seem to sit there, staring out the window, day dreaming about the days when they were making record amounts of profit on accident with the Wii.... "How can we replicate it, if we're not sure what we did"

[Ian Sane]

Dropping the system outright and rebooting with something else is gonna get ignored, much like the Dreamcast, and that will be hard to recover from. The trust will have been lost and the buyers will have felt burned.

One thing that Sega fucked up in regards to the Saturn/Dreamcast transition is that they just ended the Saturn and then had nothing going for them until the Dreamcast came out.  Bernie Stolar infamously said in an interview "the Saturn is not our future" which might as well be an advertising campaign stating "don't buy a Saturn!"  Perhaps Nintendo could be a little smarter and have a smoother transition with the Wii U continuing to get support until its successor is released.  It would be idiotic to just announce the Wii U being discontinued and then just be out of the console market until the successor is ready.  They should be smart enough to not say a damn thing until they really are ready to go and not reveal the successor until the same year it is due to come out.

As for turning off the existing buyers, um, what existing buyers?  I have a feeling most of the existing Wii U owners are such Nintendo nuts that Miyamoto could **** in a box and they would buy it.  Who here owns a Wii U and would be so offended by it being discontinued that they would not buy Nintendo's next console?  And Nintendo did do this before with the Virtual Boy.  They decided that killing the thing and pretending it never existed was the best course of action and it didn't seem to have any negative impact on consumer trust.

Is Nintendo sticking to some unwanted console for five years with virtually no third party support going to create all sorts of consumer goodwill?  Is five years of borderline irrelevancy in the console market going to help Nintendo's next console?  I think the Wii U was partially hurt by Nintendo's slim support of the Wii for the last few years of its life so continuing that trend doesn't seem like a good idea.

The hell with marketing and name changes, how about Nintendo do something to get some fucking games released and actually make the Wii U a decent product?  If they're so dumbstruck by HD development why aren't they increasing the size of their teams or acquiring devs or at least courting them for a second party arrangement?  Instead of trying to fool people with marketing into thinking the Wii U is improved how about they try to actually improve it?  Try some unfamiliar genres, create new IP, work with some Western devs to make something that isn't so Japan-focused, actually use the damn Gamepad in an interesting way if you're going to force everyone to buy it.  All the fancy marketing isn't going to sell the Wii U with more 2D sidescrollers that would have come across as old fashioned on the N64.  They need something that gives the console real value, where people feel they HAVE to buy a Wii U or they'll miss out on the next big videogame experience.  That's the one thing the Wii did right that made people buy it.

Fix it or replace it.  Putting a nice bow on it isn't going to do a thing.

[smallsharkbigbite]

Or we could do a true deluxe release with the Wii U XL and make the Gamepad capable of playing 3DS games.

Gamepad is the bottom screen, 3d tv is the top screen.  Wii U is capable of replicating 3d games now.  Assassins Creed 3 (Wii U edition) has stereoscopic 3d option.  Besides, now that Nintendo is promoting the 2ds, certainly the 3ds games could be presented on the wii u. 

Who here owns a Wii U and would be so offended by it being discontinued that they would not buy Nintendo's next console?  And Nintendo did do this before with the Virtual Boy.  They decided that killing the thing and pretending it never existed was the best course of action and it didn't seem to have any negative impact on consumer trust.

You owned a Wii but not a Wii U.  I own a Wii U.  If they kill it within 2 years, I won't own a successor for many years.  It just took me longer than you to realize Nintendo isn't the company, anymore, that gave me my love of video games.  I'm not going to argue the Wii U is great hardware, it isn't.  But it's not terrible hardware either.  Nintendo has a serious software problem.  Just releasing a new console doesn't fix that.  A new console could be part of that fix, but nothing I've seen from Nintendo recently indicates that they can fix the problem.  You seem to indicate yourself that the Wii U hardware isn't necessarily the problem. 

The hell with marketing and name changes, how about Nintendo do something to get some fucking games released and actually make the Wii U a decent product?

I have a feeling most of the existing Wii U owners are such Nintendo nuts that Miyamoto could **** in a box and they would buy it.

Miyamoto should have been in Iwata's shoes, but he didn't want it.  He's had an incredible career even if every game he's produced isn't solid gold.  That said, he's told Nintendo to prepare for a future without him.  He's more a visionary than a lover of video games.  My guess is he doesn't make the jump to Nintendo's next console, especially as pressure increases on Nintendo to conform to industry standards. 

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[BlackNMild2k1]

It was one of my suggestions (in a different thread I think?) that Nintendo allow NOA & NOE to operate more autonomously. Letting NOA decide what Retro and subsequent US 1st/2nd parties are working on, and who to work with to make whatever games another branch doesn't currently have dibs on. Letting NOE create a new Rare and handle all European development and marketing and such.

Nintendo doesn't even seem interested in selling us the old software that they already have ready to go in the form of Virtual Console, so I'm not really sure what they are thinking when it comes to supplying the Wii U audience with much needed games to play.

The Wii U is literally set up to be a 3DS player, and yet, that bit of obviousness (to us, since E3 2011 reveal) has yet to dawn on them, as I'm sure they surely could have capitalized on it in some way or another at this point.

Everything that Nintendo is doing on the software front is lacking in effort and far short of any perceived potential.

and even if Nintendo was ready to drop new hardware this summer to replace the Wii U, it still wouldn't have any software ready to go till the maybe next year as 3rd parties would be slow to port and hesitant to support. Nintendo is having trouble keeping up with Wii U development, so lets go and match or trump PS4 level specs and see what happens now. Oh, further delays to games that were already late to begin with.

I don't think they have much of a choice but to try and salvage the Wii U, and if they are going to leverage any success and push for a replacement system to generate income, I sincerely hope they think outside the box, attempt to strike new ground, surprise the competition and stay ahead of the curve by putting some serious R&D into a "Hybrid" device. a 3rd wheel device for the meantime with long term potential of replacing the 3DS and short term potential of phasing out the Wii U slowly till a proper replacement system can be put forth. (I know,  I know, not this damn hybrid talk again, but I really think the idea makes sense as an option to be explored. Someone is gonna do it sooner or later, and Nintendo needs a new "WOW" factor to generate that "fire sale" HYPE)

[smallsharkbigbite]

The Wii U is literally set up to be a 3DS player, and yet, that bit of obviousness (to us, since E3 2011 reveal) has yet to dawn on them, as I'm sure they surely could have capitalized on it in some way or another at this point.

I think the problem is that their are no expansion ports on the Wii U to allow for playing 3DS cartridges and their online systems are far from being able to allow people who own 3DS titles to be able to download them for free.  Sure they could release 3DS games for $40, but what incentive would 3DS owners have to re-buy their games. 

if Nintendo was ready to drop new hardware this summer to replace the Wii U, it still wouldn't have any software ready to go till the maybe next year as 3rd parties would be slow to port and hesitant to support.

I think this is the biggest argument for keeping the Wii U.  You can argue consumers would get over the Wii U getting cut early, but it's hard to argue that 3rd parties will suddenly support the next system after this failure.  And reality is the Wii U has sold about 5.8 million units.  That's not a colossal failure.  It's almost a third of gamecube sales already.  Sure, in the modern era that's a disappointment, but far from a vitual boy which didn't even crack 1 million units sold. 

(I know,  I know, not this damn hybrid talk again,

Must....resist....urge....to argue about hybrid. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

The Wii U is literally set up to be a 3DS player, and yet, that bit of obviousness (to us, since E3 2011 reveal) has yet to dawn on them, as I'm sure they surely could have capitalized on it in some way or another at this point.

I think the problem is that their are no expansion ports on the Wii U to allow for playing 3DS cartridges and their online systems are far from being able to allow people who own 3DS titles to be able to download them for free.  Sure they could release 3DS games for $40, but what incentive would 3DS owners have to re-buy their games. 

But it was apparent to us even before the system launched. Plenty of time for Nintendo to add a 3DS gameslot under the flap on the Wii U.

We are past a year after launch and their eShop is still not what it should be and accounts are still not unified and countless other things that people want to make excuses for that Nintendo still hasn't done that they could have, and appear to be taking their sweet ass time towards that already should have.

At what point during the failing decline do they panic and start to take action? They aren't even playing towards their strengths, so am I supposed to have confidence in them addressing their weaknesses? I'm glad they finally got the wake up call (guess they can only hit snooze on that alarm for so long) but at this pace, they would have shown up late to their own funeral.

They've bypassed so many opportunities to shut me up and take my money that it's not even funny anymore. I can't even recommend that a friend buy the system regardless of their love for Nintendo style games at this point. It's a wait and see game, and it shouldn't be like that.

January 30th needs to hurry up and come so we can see what lessons Iwata has learned and what actions he plans to take to steer his company straight. I would hate to have to hang my Nintendo hat in my nostalgia closet because they just aren't who they used to be to me anymore. It's not too late to fix things, but they can't just sit there and pretend like they aren't even losing mindshare among some of their oldest and most loyal fans.

[Ceric]

Flat out the Wii U's biggest problem in the end I think is Marketing and Branding.  The Non-Nintendo Loyalist barely know that the system exists.  That its the next system.  Though the XBox One is also having a bit of that problem outside of the gaming crowd as well.

They really need to ReBrand and ReMarket.  Nintendo has lost T-AO this generation as a primary focus.  That shipped sailed as soon as they squandered their year lead and the PS4 and XBone shipped.  They need to focus on a new niche.  That would be E-T.

Currently the PS4 and XBone really don't have any good titles catering to that crowd.  Nintendo needs to be the place for that.  A slight UI redesign to make it kid friendlier.  A Wii Q that does DVD and Blu-Ray.  I can buy a Wii U with Skylanders for $250.  To do that they need mindshare with the 5-12 audience.  I go as far to say as releasing a Captain N like series on Netflix featuring Wii U.  Support Education and have Wii U software geared towards education to get it in Schools at a discounted School price.

They need to get out of those Transparent Cubes they have been stuck in.