Author Topic: Transformers  (Read 35018 times)

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Offline Karl Castaneda #2

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2007, 02:11:09 AM »
Reading this thread makes me want to do another movie podcast with Evan.

Yo Burchfield, how about it?
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Offline Ceric

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #101 on: July 06, 2007, 12:45:19 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: bustin98
I think the movie is great with popcorn. As a Transformers G1 fan, I feel like I should be upset, but the knowledge that the movie was not made for G1 fans diminishes the queeziness.

I'm surprised no one complains of the 'car commercial' aspect of the film. I would be completely removed from the film each time the cars would come rolling down the road with the sweeping camera running by overhead. I tend to think the action would have been alot more fun if the cars were fake name brands without any sort of 'image' attached. The rest of the product placement is commonplace these days. Though I did see some tv show the other day that had a widescreen tv and the name brand had tape over it.

Greatest line: Sam's happy time.

They should have had something similar to the end of Grumpy Old Men with Sam's mom running through various names. That would have been awesome.


But thanks to the ending we got we know that Transfomers like to watch.
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Offline Svevan

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2007, 01:18:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
Reading this thread makes me want to do another movie podcast with Evan.

Yo Burchfield, how about it?

Yeah let's do it. But don't let any relativists on the show.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2007, 02:44:51 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
Quote

Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
Reading this thread makes me want to do another movie podcast with Evan.

Yo Burchfield, how about it?

Yeah let's do it. But don't let any relativists on the show.


Funny.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #104 on: July 07, 2007, 06:06:33 AM »
I vote yay! Another movie podcast would be awesomeness.  

Offline Kairon

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #105 on: July 07, 2007, 08:55:03 PM »
Just saw the movie. It may be the best pure action movie I've ever seen in my entire life. It starts with a bang and doesn't really let up, and Shia Lebouf is the PERFECT everyman. Also, I can sooo see what Evan mentioned about how the movie has this whole military-industrial complex thing going on. If EVER there was a movie that justified the United States of America's Defense Budget, this is it.
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Offline IceCold

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #106 on: July 07, 2007, 09:23:18 PM »
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but the not-so-thinly-veiled jabs at the government and the "social commentary" tossed in were horribly tacky.. From what is obviously Bush ordering ding-dongs to the slogan of "To imprison and enslave" on the cop car to the "I'd bet my ridiculous government salary on it" quote.

Just another example of Bay's amateurism.    
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #107 on: July 07, 2007, 09:29:28 PM »
How are those tied to any administration? You're looking WAY TOO MUCH for stuff that simply isn't there. The first is an obvious inversion of "to serve and protect" which anyone can agree is pretty devoid of political agenda, it IS a bad guy afterall, and the second is just a throwaway line, since I'm sure that NOBODY has a problem that we pay the Men In Black big bucks for saving our planet.

Chill, IceCold. It's a general riff, not a barb aimed directly at anyone's politics. Like I said before, the closest this movie gets to politics is saying that everything we spend on our defense budgets is justified.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #108 on: July 07, 2007, 09:31:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but the not-so-veiled jabs at the government were horribly tacky.. From what is obviously Bush ordering ding-dongs to the slogan of "To imprison and enslave" on the cop car to the "I'd bet my ridiculous government salary on it" quote.

Just another example of Bay's amateurism.


I think you are reading way too much into it, yeah the first was unnecessary, but the other two were nothing to get upset about. Especially Barricade's slogan which was meant to be an evil opposite of "Protect and Serve), I fail to see how that is "anti-government", in fact I thought it was a pretty neat little addition . The government salary one was a cheesy joke that may or may not have been in the original script which Bay did not write.  Besides the stupid Bush joke, the others you mentioned, are some really silly complaints regarding Bay being "amateurish" in regards to an anti-government message, one of which you would probably find in other movies (the over used government salary one).
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #109 on: July 07, 2007, 09:38:42 PM »
OH! *smacks himself in head* I didn't know that was supposed to be a reference to Bush. Until recently, I lived in smack dab in the middle of leftist San Francisco/Bay Area, yet the only thoughts going through my mind when I got to that scene was "Gee, now I want a Ding Dong," AND "OH! Ho-Hos are a COMPLETELY different snack product!" AND "Oooh! Red socks!"

Geez, what's so insulting about the President of the United States getting the munchies?
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #110 on: July 07, 2007, 09:41:36 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
OH! *smacks himself in head* I didn't know that was supposed to be a reference to Bush. Until recently, I lived in smack dab in the middle of leftist San Francisco/Bay Area, yet the only thoughts going through my mind when I got to that scene was "Gee, now I want a Ding Dong," AND "OH! Ho-Hos are a COMPLETELY different snack product!" AND "Oooh! Red socks!"

Geez, what's so insulting about the President of the United States getting the munchies?


Lol.
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Offline IceCold

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #111 on: July 07, 2007, 10:16:12 PM »
I wasn't replying to you Kairon, or anyone in general. And did I give the impression that I was upset with those? Because I'm not - I just wanted to point out, as I said, how tacky they were.. They were just so out of place and forced.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #112 on: July 07, 2007, 11:05:41 PM »
For the heck of it here is the review I have written for IMDB:

When I say “Transformers,” what comes to mind? Do pleasant memories of years gone by dance through your head of the epic battles between Megatron and Optimus Prime?  Do you have memories of an excitement that drowned out all other thoughts after getting the original Optimus Prime’s toy or Megatron in his controversial gun form? Or perhaps you have memories of a TV show that was horribly cheesy with some of the most clichĂ© and poorly written dialog around that was created solely for the purpose of selling toys, with perhaps fonder memories for Beast Wars or other additions to the Transformers saga? Whatever your view of Transformers may be, you MUST see the new movie!

           After Transformers was announced for the big screen, the Transformers fan base became a buzz about what it would be like. Would it trounce their childhoods like so many other movies have? Or would it be a carbon copy of the original series right down to the story and Boxformer design? Well, I am happy to announce that it was neither of those. Michael Bay has pulled off something truly special in this new film; he managed to imagine Transformers for a new generation while maintaining many of the elements that hardcore fans will eat up. Make no mistake about this, this is not your old G1 Transformers, but at the same time, it manages to pay homage to it in many ways that will make you smile.

           Before I get into the meat of this review, let me state that I was cautiously optimistic about the film and was unsure about the new Transformer designs. Now that I have experienced the movie, I cannot imagine anything else that would have worked better. Even if there was an alternative, it would not have been the classic designs, which would have looked out of place and overly cheesy in this film.

           Now onto perhaps the most important question, how are the CGI effects used to make these new Transformer models come to life? To put it as clearly as possible, they are gorgeous. Taking into account that Transformers, when compared to other action focused blockbusters such as Spider-man 3 and Pirates of the Caribbean, it had roughly half the budget, which makes Michael Bay’s use of the CGI even more stunning. The CGI makes the Transformers come to life in this movie, complete with moving parts made even more amazing by the almost seamless interaction between themselves and humans. At times, you can really believe that the Transformers are really interacting with human beings. Perhaps one of the most stunning features of the CGI is the believable transformation sequences, which gets rid of the goofy inconsistency from the original film in which the Transformers could change into something that is drastically smaller than their robot forms. Now you can almost see how the Transformers change into a vehicle and back to their robot form piece by piece. The only unfortunate part of the visuals is that at times it appears that budget constraints were hidden through shaky and limited camera views of the Transformers. Luckily, for the most part, you don’t notice this, and at times it even creates an exciting scene.

           What would these Transformers be without actors, including a competent voice cast? To put it clearly, it would be one drab movie. Thankfully, Transformers manages to have a great cast of both human actors and a brilliant voice cast. The main character, Sam (played by Shia Labeouf), is a surprisingly interesting character that we actually have fun getting to know. Labeouf really adds to the magic of this movie by his interaction, not only with other human characters but also with the Transformers that he interacts with in a believable and engaging way. The other human characters all put on solid performances but were not interesting enough to be memorable in any way.

           Onto the Autobots and Decepticons. All I can say about them is that I was very impressed, but yet disappointed at the same time. Peter Cullen does an amazing job as Optimus, and the emotion you get from his voice work is top notch and I cannot imagine anyone doing it any better. The other Autobots had great voice castings, but sadly, they were underutilized and did not say much (though when they did it was usually good!). On the Decepticon side, Megatron and Frenzy did most of the speaking (Frenzy spoke in another language), with little dialogue coming from everyone else. For those that were worried about Megatron’s voice, don’t be, because the voice fits perfectly with his new, almost frightening look and it plays well off of Peter Cullen. It is just too bad that he did not have more lines.

           Enough with the behind the scenes things like CGI and talent, what was the movie like? This movie is a thrill ride from beginning to end, and I can almost guarantee that there will be a moment where you will go “Whoa” (hopefully in a more dramatic voice than Neo in the Matrix). Michael Bay has crafted some of the most spectacular action scenes of all time, and shows that he has the artistic talent it takes when it comes to action, with some action sequences never before seen on the big screen. In fact, there is so much going on that you will miss some of it and you will probably have to go see the movie again. The robot battles are epic for the most part (despite a disappointing Megatron vs. Optimus final battle), and your adrenaline will be pumping, to say the least. To help provide some much needed change of pace, the movie has its share of humor, some of which is low brow, but at the same time it provides a fun laugh. What makes the movie so good is that it never takes itself too seriously. It manages to suck you into things with the visuals. One of the most frightening visual sequences involves Megatron chasing Shia Lebeouf’s character, which is one of the most exciting I have seen in years.

           Believe it or not, through the flashes there are actually solid characters that you actually care about. As was stated before, Shia Labeouf does an amazing job of making us care about him. In addition to him, we can’t help but root and relate to Optimus Prime. What is most shocking is how our hearts go out to a Bumblebee that never talks. We are brought to this character through a combination of songs he plays and through his mannerisms, and it is amazing how much complexity was put into this character. There is one point during the film where you can’t help but feel a bit disheartened by what happens to him. For all the flack Bay has gotten, this movie manages to have some heart and substance through his characters.

           Now, how does this movie help bring in the hardcore fans of Transformers? Well, through many ways, a lot of which only hardcore fans will get the references to. Many of the lines are stripped right from the G1 Transformers and will bring smiles to the faces of fans everywhere. With that said, it does change the storyline a bit. Instead of crash landing on earth thousands of years ago, the Transformers arrive on earth during present day (well, except for Megatron, whom is a homage to the old show) and are searching for the Allspark, which gives life to machines. Megatron wants this Allspark to rule the galaxy, while Optimus wants it to help restore life to Cybertron. Granted, this story won’t win any academy awards, but it works, and it manages to stay true to the ideas behind the original show.

           What symbolism does Bay manage to convey in this film? In all seriousness, I think you have to really look hard to find anything, but for the fun of it, let me give it a shot. The main theme is that we can work together regardless of our differences, whether it is the Transformers being different sizes, or the variety of ethnic groups and the human race as a whole joining together with the Transformers as one to face off against the Megatron’s minions. In fact, you could say this film symbolizes that if we come together as one, we can destroy evil, even when we are outnumbered (the Decepticons outnumbered the Autobots by 3). This is a consistent theme throughout the movie, and even the final battle required teamwork from everybody.

           Frenzy represented how someone small and that is regarded as “weak” can do many great things, and that we should never doubt someone based on physical appearance. Bay expertly crafts this character to symbolize this ideal, even making him be the primary conduit, setting the stage for the final battle. Even the character of Sam shows this characteristic, when the most unexpected character can help save the world is a teenager. This theme is masterfully woven into the fabric of Transformers, making this movie a lake full of substance.

           Ok, perhaps that was a bit of sarcasm, but this movie is one of the best action movies around and it is truly a great movie within the genre. This is due to a combination of characters, expertly shot action sequences, CGI, humorous dialog, and a rollercoaster ride when it comes to emotions. Hardcore fans of Transformers will find enough familiarities with the movie that they should appreciate it, while new fans will find an experience like no other one out there. This is a cartoon to movie adaptation done right, and Michael Bay should be applauded for accomplishing this. Transformers was not easy to adapt without getting into the realm of B movie territory, or on the flip side, making it into something that definitely is not Transformers. He managed to find a fine balance between these two sides of the fence and created a thrill ride that sucks the audience in and won’t let go. I have no doubt the cheers I heard at the end of this film is not limited to my area. But that is true that for most who see this movie and are looking for a movie that is well made and above all else, fun. So make plans to see this film and ROLL OUT to your local movie theater right away!

8.5-The primary negatives being the underdeveloped characters, like the Transformers and sometimes erradic camera shots.
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #113 on: July 08, 2007, 08:31:59 AM »
GP you are wrong.  The main theme is clearly that Man is Oblivious to the abnormal. ;P
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #114 on: July 08, 2007, 08:38:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
GP you are wrong.  The main theme is clearly that Man is Oblivious to the abnormal. ;P


You know, you may be onto something there, but I think that is in conjunction with teamwork. When I think about it is obvious Bay was trying to show the complexity of Teamwork even if human beings are oblivious to who they are teaming up with!  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #115 on: July 08, 2007, 01:48:34 PM »
I especially like how in Qatar, the middle east, when they get to the town all the men, seeing U.S. soldiers hot-footing it towards them, grab their weapons and instinctively help out in the fight against Scorpinok. Immediately after that, they show maybe 3 different ways that the air force can bombard and blast and bomb targets from the air, delivering a ridiculous payload at the request of the ground troops with equally ridiculous speed, accuracy, and willingness.

Like I said, this movie makes me want to increase the defense budget.
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Offline oohhboy

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #116 on: July 08, 2007, 11:33:32 PM »
You have got to be kidding me GP. That movie was so full of the U.S military is awesome go AIR FORCE! Overkill on the product placement. Wasted redundant characters like everyone from or associated with the government. Action sequences have almost no chronological cohesion and focuses on the wrong fight, but were technically impressive. The transformations were excellent, but felt far too busy.

The casting was well thought out, but there was so much wasted potential. I didn't mind Sam seeing he was cast for the solo purpose to identify with the geeks but got way too much time.

It wasn't really a transformer movie. It was more like a subtle propaganda film that circle jerks sci-fi keyboard jockeys with robots thrown in. It didn't matter where or who the robots were, as long as there were robots, it didn't matter. A perfectly entertaining C. G1 this is not, but as a blow crap up movie, acceptable.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #117 on: July 09, 2007, 12:07:18 AM »
Oohhboy, I think you need to go back and read Svevan's review! In particular, he adresses your "chronological cohesion" concerns.

Uh oh, but watch out. I think you just earned yourself a spot on GP's naughty list.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #118 on: July 09, 2007, 05:07:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: oohhboy
You have got to be kidding me GP. That movie was so full of the U.S military is awesome go AIR FORCE! Overkill on the product placement. Wasted redundant characters like everyone from or associated with the government. Action sequences have almost no chronological cohesion and focuses on the wrong fight, but were technically impressive. The transformations were excellent, but felt far too busy.

The casting was well thought out, but there was so much wasted potential. I didn't mind Sam seeing he was cast for the solo purpose to identify with the geeks but got way too much time.

It wasn't really a transformer movie. It was more like a subtle propaganda film that circle jerks sci-fi keyboard jockeys with robots thrown in. It didn't matter where or who the robots were, as long as there were robots, it didn't matter. A perfectly entertaining C. G1 this is not, but as a blow crap up movie, acceptable.


The product placement was not that bad at all, especially taking into consideration it was a sacrifice in order to keep the budget costs down. Not sure what you mean about "chronological cohesion", but the action sequences, for action sequences, fit well. Also if you read my review I said that most of the characters were underutilized besides Sam, though saying Sam had too much screen time is entirely subjective, personally I appreciated his screen time.  I think the movie had a lot more Sam in order to develop the human characters and their interactions with the Transformers (I hear the sequel will focus more on the Transformers themselves). The U.S. Military thing, all I have to say is, so what? I guess the original Transformers was propaganda too because Optimus was red white and blue. But who really cares, it is not that big of a deal (Personally I found alot of the military officials to be shown in a negative light).

Thank god it wasn't a G1 movie, have you seen the old animated series lately? I'm sorry but it is flat out terrible in about every sense of the word (Fun for nostalgia but it is not very good), it basically goes like ::Megatron hatches a plan, terrible dialog, plan fails, Decepticons retreat. Rinse and repeat::. In regards to the Transformers themselves being thrown in with little to no thought, I strongly disagree at least when it comes to Optimus, Bumblebee, and Megatron all of which played important, vital roles and it was easy to track them (some of the others, I agree were harder to follow but I think that was more because of the limited development time for the secondary characters). Yeah the others were underutilized, but like I said the movie was more focused on the human characters than the Transformers themselves (Probably due to more budget restraints but there are rumblings there will be more Transformer development in future movies).  Anyway those are fair concerns I can understand why it would bother some. Besides you said you'd give it a C and I gave it an 8.5, that is only a 10pt difference!  
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Offline bustin98

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #119 on: July 10, 2007, 03:45:42 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Oohhboy, I think you need to go back and read Svevan's review! In particular, he adresses your "chronological cohesion" concerns.

Uh oh, but watch out. I think you just earned yourself a spot on GP's naughty list.


The way you say that it almost sounds like a fun thing to do . . .

Offline oohhboy

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #120 on: July 10, 2007, 10:51:35 PM »
It was trying to describe the bottomless bullet mag equivalent of time. One moment there are guys running towards their planes, next is back to the ground war, then the very next thing the air strikes arrive. Every single plane has got to be flying something like mach 30 to make the time that they do. Also the final fight inside the city had time moving around everywhere. Fire fights not in view would simply pause and on return it starts up again like no time has passed.

Megatron Vs Optimus fight was cut and chopped up to be interrupted by far less important scenes. What could have been an epic fight was reduced to animated robot wrestling. Megatron was reduced to a measly generic villain and none of the ideological conflict that exist between them played out.

No doubt it is a good looking movie and individual action shots are awesome, but as a whole, it makes no sense. Bay made a very unbalanced movie.
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Offline Luigi_1326

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #121 on: July 13, 2007, 06:04:33 AM »
I dont know. I dont care for either of them. They seem to be FORGOTTEN.    
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE: Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #122 on: July 18, 2007, 08:50:52 PM »
This movie would have been far better if they got rid of the ridiculously worthless humans.

Every human besides people directly related to Shia should have been a total bit part.  They were totally worthless and pointless the entire movie.  I never cared about the army guy with a wife, I wanted him and the soldiers to die since all they did was shoot at the decepticons to absolutely no effect and miraculously survive missile barrages.  Their guns did nothing until suddenly famous army guy decides that he knows that Blackout is weak underneath (how?) and does a motorcycle trick that would tear off all of his skin and manages to take him down with his worthless grenade launcher looking handgun after surviving countless rocket and gun blasts that missed him and his platoon.

The army was trying to take the allspark away from Megatron and Starscream with a helicopter!!  The two could turn into jets!! Jets!!  They could easily take it back, Starscream took out a whole squadron alone.  Even Blackout could fly and take it yet somehow even the autobots went along with this ridiculous plan.  My friend looked over to me and said "They do realize they can fly right?"

I had my suspension of disbelief on high coming into the movie and it was still too much for me.  (I let Soundwave walk away from a recently attacked airforce one slide with no complaints)  The action scenes are cool and I like how they portrayed Shia, getting Bumblebee and the girl but once it moves to anyone else it goes way downhill.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #123 on: July 18, 2007, 08:59:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: SixthAngel
This movie would have been far better if they got rid of the ridiculously worthless humans.

Every human besides people directly related to Shia should have been a total bit part.  They were totally worthless and pointless the entire movie.  I never cared about the army guy with a wife, I wanted him and the soldiers to die since all they did was shoot at the decepticons to absolutely no effect and miraculously survive missile barrages.  Their guns did nothing until suddenly famous army guy decides that he knows that Blackout is weak underneath (how?) and does a motorcycle trick that would tear off all of his skin and manages to take him down with his worthless grenade launcher looking handgun after surviving countless rocket and gun blasts that missed him and his platoon.

The army was trying to take the allspark away from Megatron and Starscream with a helicopter!!  The two could turn into jets!! Jets!!  They could easily take it back, Starscream took out a whole squadron alone.  Even Blackout could fly and take it yet somehow even the autobots went along with this ridiculous plan.  My friend looked over to me and said "They do realize they can fly right?"

I had my suspension of disbelief on high coming into the movie and it was still too much for me.  (I let Soundwave walk away from a recently attacked airforce one slide with no complaints)  The action scenes are cool and I like how they portrayed Shia, getting Bumblebee and the girl but once it moves to anyone else it goes way downhill.


Soundwave was in the movie? I think not, so in turn your whole post fails! All I can say, is that thankfully there are far more people who appreciated the film (the weekend return only dropping less than 50%), most of whom tried not to take a movie too seriously that had giant talking robots that could transform into cars and other vehicles.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Transformers: New Live Action Film. Power Rangers anyone?
« Reply #124 on: July 18, 2007, 09:05:59 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: oohhboy
It was trying to describe the bottomless bullet mag equivalent of time. One moment there are guys running towards their planes, next is back to the ground war, then the very next thing the air strikes arrive. Every single plane has got to be flying something like mach 30 to make the time that they do. Also the final fight inside the city had time moving around everywhere. Fire fights not in view would simply pause and on return it starts up again like no time has passed.

Megatron Vs Optimus fight was cut and chopped up to be interrupted by far less important scenes. What could have been an epic fight was reduced to animated robot wrestling. Megatron was reduced to a measly generic villain and none of the ideological conflict that exist between them played out.

No doubt it is a good looking movie and individual action shots are awesome, but as a whole, it makes no sense. Bay made a very unbalanced movie.


The transformer character development will be in the sequel, this movie mainly centered around introducing the Transformers and the humans. Your complaints about the time inconsistency shows you went into the movie with a non-action movie mindset (or you were just thinking of something to complain about), and shows you are reading way too much into the movie, these errors pop up all the time. Heck you see errors and inconsistencies everywhere, when you are dealing with the action genre, which for the most part is extremely unbelievable. THough I think it could be argued that this unbelievability adds to the genre, and personally would have it no other way.

In regards to Megatron, he was a generic villain in G1 as well, he was evil and did evil things. I swear people need to go back and watch the original cartoon, it is quite bad if you look at it objectively. The only ideological conflict Optimus and Megatron had is one wanted power and to destroy, while the other wanted to protect. This was shown in the movie as well, especially Optimus talking about how freedom belongs to every sentient being. Not to mention that there was the line taken directly from the Transformers movie from the 80s about how one shall stand and one shall fall, in addition to some bantering back and forth between Megatron and Optimus (Though I do wish Megatron was given more screen time).
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