Topic: This is what's wrong with current day Nintendo.

[shingi_70]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/20/dont-get-your-hopes-up-for-f-zero

"I certainly understand that people want a new F-Zero game," Miyamoto said. "I think where I struggle is that I don’t really have a good idea for what’s new that we could bring to F-Zero that would really turn it into a great game again. Certainly I can see how people looking at Mario Kart 8 could see, through the anti-gravity, a connection to F-Zero. But I don’t know, at this point, what direction we could go in with a new F-Zero."

I mean come the **** on. I understand Miyamoto is a legendary creator but at this point he shouldn't have that much creative control over Nintendo's development path. I was under the the impression that with the exception of Pikmin 3 and his new IP he was retiring from being active in the company. There's no reason why because Iwata and friends are okay with being a Mario Farm that New or Older IP should be put on the   backburner. I mean I don't think I could rust Rare to make a new core oriented title and yet Microsoft gave Killer Instinct to double Helix and the game has gotten good reception.  Why not in addition to setting up new studios, farm out older IP to exisiting studios, get that team of Former Studio Liverpool guys on a new F-zero game. I'd also say do more with Third Party partners like SEGA, bring back burning Rangers, or something like Altered beast or beyond Oasis.

Probably just ranting to rant but Nintendo's development set up from what we have seen looks so archaic compared to the other big two. It might be that Nintendo has be in perptual panic mode so were seeing alot of Safe games coming from them in sucession.

[BranDonk Kong]

It's not that hard to build an F-Zero game. You just get a good team to make it pretty and build fun levels, use the pad for custom tracks, and add online. Game done. You don't have to make it revolutionary, you just make a new one.

[Caterkiller]

At this point it needs to be a moderate step up to get noticed or it'll just be sent to die. I think that step up is online but we know Nintendo doesn't work that way and honestly just adding online play is such gamer request, there is no way that will help it sell any more than GX did.

We love F-Zero but didn't even buy it when it was at it's peak on the Gamecube. I blame everyone who didn't buy it. Everyone. 

What were GX's sales? I know it bombed hard.

[Kytim89]

Kid Icarus was a dead series and Nintendo marketed the **** out of that game and it sold well over a million plus units world wide. If Nintendo gave Metroid, F-Zero, and Star Fox to group of competent developers (Retro, Monster, Next Level, Platinum, etc) then there is not doubt that those games could sell as well as Kid ICarus did for the 3DS. Personally, I am tired of the same old Mario game being made every year, I want Nintendo to bring back their B-List games.

[shingi_70]

The way I look at it is that the Panic stuff helped the 3DS becuase the 3DS also had alot of third party and eshop support, Beyond Bayonetta 2, W101, and X, Nintendo has only shown stuff they expect to sale to the public. Problem is looking at Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem Awakening non tradional IP with the proper support can do well. I just wish they'd show something new even if from a gameplay standpoint it might be iterative.


Hell look at somebody like Activsion who put a ton of money into skylanders a game I was sure was going to flop upon release. Or hell even Titanfall and Destiny being postioned as this Generations new big titles despite arguably being Pakuor Call of Duty with mechs, and Vaguely Halo + Bordlands MMO.

[Ian Sane]

I'm offended more by the hypocrisy of what Miyamoto is saying.  He saying they can't think of anything further to do with F-Zero so no new game will be made.  I'm fine with that.  In fact that very attitude is what I used to associate with Nintendo - they only made games if there was a creative reason for the game to exist.  Therefore if they feel they can't go anywhere else with F-Zero there would be no point in making a redundant F-Zero.

Except this isn't how Nintendo operates at all these days.  They don't give a **** if the game concept truly needs a sequel or if anything new can be done with it.  They have no problem cranking out 2D Mario platformers with the most minor differences between them.  They just don't think F-Zero will have mass commercial appeal.  Nintendo is the Japanese EA these days and I prefer that they be honest about that instead of acting like they're still the creative and innovative developer they used to be.  When Yamauchi was calling the shots I would have bought this excuse but it does not apply at all to Iwata's Nintendo.

You're not a young artistic genius anymore, Miyamoto.  You're the old man in the suit who only sees sales and money.  Just be honest about that.

[Kytim89]

the best time to release quality titles is during the first year or so of a new console's life cycle. It is plain as day that Nintendo needs all of the games that it can get at this point. There is clearly enough demand for these games if they were to be made and could probably sell close to a million copies.

[shingi_70]

I think Miyamoto still has merit as a developer but Iwata or someone needs to say go sit your old butt over in the corner and play with your Vanity Projects. I'm of the mind that Miyamoto's influence is actually hurting Nintendo at this point since his position is redudent. Tezuka and the EAD teaming having to work on Galaxy's story parts outside of Miyamoto makes no sense, I suspect 3D Land and 3D world's (3D Land is more manageable) lack of Narrative coming off of Galaxy is probably Miyamoto.


I think Iwata needs to give Miyamoto his own project Sora and let his studios make somthing without miyamoto's direct involvement.


Plus W101 and Pikmin not having multi-player is BS.

[shingi_70]

the best time to release quality titles is during the first year or so of a new console's life cycle. It is plain as day that Nintendo needs all of the games that it can get at this point. There is clearly enough demand for these games if they were to be made and could probably sell close to a million copies.

Even if it's not a retail release a Eshop F-zero could go a long way. The wipeout series has been download focused for a while ow and they seem to do well despite not being a Motorstorm or a GT.

[Kytim89]

the best time to release quality titles is during the first year or so of a new console's life cycle. It is plain as day that Nintendo needs all of the games that it can get at this point. There is clearly enough demand for these games if they were to be made and could probably sell close to a million copies.

Even if it's not a retail release a Eshop F-zero could go a long way. The wipeout series has been download focused for a while ow and they seem to do well despite not being a Motorstorm or a GT.

The market is over saturated with racing games and this might be the reason for why Nintendo is reluctant to make a new F-Zero game. This might also be the reason why we will never get a Metroid Prime 4 because the FPS genre is over saturated. Either way if Nintendo makes a quality game it will sell well.

[Agent-X-]

Essentially there is no way F-Zero gets any exposure until Mario Kart is released.


I've also learned to take Miyamoto with a grain of salt. Really, anyone at Nintendo is to be taken with a grain of salt.


In the B-franchises topic, I echoed pretty much what's being stated over here. Nintendo should be leveraging their B-franchises to get some outside development going. I don't see what it could hurt.

[UncleBob]

This is going to sound mean, but...

Hell look at somebody like Activsion who put a ton of money into skylanders a game I was sure was going to flop upon release.

Activision took a huge risk with Skylanders.

You were "sure" it was going to flop.

Skylanders turned into a freaking huge franchise, becoming the biggest selling new IP in years, winning several awards and changing how aspects of the market work.

You might not be the best judge on how Nintendo needs to go about turning their fortunes around.

Skylanders was poised to be a major force in the market from the moment it was first anounced.  Anyone who didn't see that... well, they missed that bus.

[Kytim89]

For the exception of Miyamoto, I honestly think that Nintendo's investors are going to upend the tea table of the entire Nintendo corporation and replace many of the big shots, which would include Iwata. They do not think from a business or even a video game mindset. 

[jvgsjeff]

If they can't think of any new ideas for F-Zero, maybe it's time they hire some fresh blood. The company as a whole needs to display some innovation (in software, not just innovation in terms of hardware gimmicks). That's one area they've been lacking in for a decade. If they're out of ideas, hire people who have ideas. Take a risk and create something new and fresh, please.

[Spak-Spang]

The market is NOT over saturated with futuristic racers...and if Nintendo wanted to see where to take F-Zero next....just look at some of the ideas in the burnout series. 

I always though F-Zero should focus on the idea extreme racing that people are risking their life in, and society is willing to watch in that series. 

I don't mean add weapons, but I could see a point/score system for reckless driving, destroying the competition, jumps, and more.  Make the races not just decided by who came in first...but who was the most entertaining to watch...and skilled.  I could even see focusing on track hazards, and terrain obstacles and such. 

Make the races feel like you are racing for your life.  You could even have crafts have sort of special abilities...something the pilot built into the craft to help them racing "their style"  Be is more powerful boosts...a means to do a sharper different type of turn.  More damage for frontal ramming of cars.  What not. 

F-Zero could be completely reinvented...if Nintendo would just do it.

[Kytim89]

What the underlying issue is that most of the games that Nintendo is unwilling to make are ones that have grown to accommodate western tastes more than those found in the east. What I mean by this is that Metroid has sold better in western markets and I would be willing to bet that Star Fox, Star Tropics, and F-Zero are more popular among American and European Nintendo fans than those of Japan. Most of the game series that Nintendo supports are a one size fits all for all audiences. What Nintendo needs to do is hand over their B-list game series to a group of proven developers and let them make the games how they see fit.

[nickmitch]

Honestly, if it's one Nintendo franchise that only needs pretty graphics to make it better, it's F-Zero.

[shingi_70]

I would love to see a new F-zero with a deep career mode as a way to gauge progression. Starting off as a rooke with speed like the orginal game while slowly ranking up and getting parts until you hit that GX style gameplay.


Rich from IGN just posted an interview with Iwata and Reggie.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/for-nintendo-the-impossible-is-possible

Our discussion ranged from Pikmin 3 to Mario to F-Zero, but as we touched upon different franchises, Miyamoto repeatedly touched upon a common theme: Nintendo must directly oversee any project involving its brands, and if it must increase the size of its teams around the world, so be it.

"We've been working on what we can do to increase our internal staff in a way that will allow us to have more projects going at the same time," Miyamoto said, when I had asked him about why some franchises like Wave Race and F-Zero seem trapped in past generations.Miyamoto noted that an increase in size will allow Nintendo to not only create new games but watch over older IPs that fans clearly still want.

... in response to many fans asking why Retro is working on Donkey Kong and not Metroid, Miyamoto offered this curious comment: "Certainly we do feel that we want to leverage the capabilities of Retro Studios further, because as we've seen from the Metroid games, they're a very capable studio."

"In the past, we had what we called the collaboration projects, which were sort of like an outside company almost doing a cover of our games with their own studios. The determination that we’ve come to more recently is that we prefer to have an internal Nintendo producer who’s there to oversee any outside development work that’s happening, to make sure that it’s in line with what we expect out of our games," Miyamoto said.

Nintendo is focusing on internally-driven development at a time when it needs more software support than ever. That's simply a fascinating choice to make. It speaks to the publisher's belief that its commitment to quality and its specific view of game design is paramount, even when that commitment results in delays or gaps in releases.

I've always been someone who liked Iwata and thought his detractors were being unreasonable, but its fucking time he gets ousted, and this Holiday season is going to be a huge wake up call.

2009/2010 was nintendo's last big years of supporting the Wii U and even those years were drought heavy between releases. WHAT THE **** was nintendo doing between 2009 and 2012 that they weren't prepared for the Wii U. I can't believe i'm reading a quite from 2013 with Iwata saying that the company is trying to increase their internal staff. That **** should have happened four years ago. Nintendo alloted a ton of money toward the warchest in addition to he Yamuguchhi fund and Iwata seems reluctant to use that cash. The excuse of they had the 3DS to worry about and alot of software in the pipelline for that is bullshit as well. Nintendo seriously looked at hw costly HD development was and how it hurt alot of Japanese developers. They looked at that and at the same time decided that without any expansion they going tp be able to manage co development of a  first time HD console and the handheld that's at Gamecubelevels. Proper foresight would have told them to build up manpower and new studios early on while waiting for the Wii area. Microsoft started really beefing up their first parties in 2010/2011 and a few of them have already put out content and are working on next gen products.


Also how hell do you leverage retro's capabilities with a  2D doneky game who's big hook is ohh fur and ahh perspective change during Barrels. Retro is your Naughty Dog/343 who should be making a big techincal masterpiece.

I love nintendo but I don;t think they've shown anything for this holiday season that's going to move units. Even their typical blue ocean games seem to be four to five years behind.  Just breaking down their E3


.





 

[Kytim89]

Nintendo needs to set aside atleast a hundred million dollars to bribe third parties into supporting the Wii U, revitalizing dormant franchises, and creating a way for third parties to easily down port games from PS4.Xbone to the Wii U.

[Adrock]

1. Yeah... That's about the worst reasoning ever for not releasing a new F-Zero. Miyamoto is notoriously terrible at bullshitting his way through interviews where he's asked a question he isn't prepared for. Remember when he was asked about multiple GamePads and he said something like, "Just use 3DS." No, motherfucker, I will not use a 3DS. Don't expect people to buy an entirely different console when you're supposed to be selling people on the GamePad. How about you make a console that can use more than one of its main controller...

The problem with Miyamoto's reasoning is that they're using F-Zero ideas in Mario Kart and it still looks like the same Mario Kart we've been playing for years. All the things they've introduced in Mario Kart over the years haven't changed the series all that much. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I love Mario Kart and I buy each one, but that's the point. I don't need you to reinvent the wheel; I need you to sell me a new wheel. I'm not even an F-Zero fan, but I find it rather disingenuous to talk to fans like they're idiots. Just say there are more Mario Kart fans so that gets precedence. People will be upset, but they would be upset either way. At least level with people.

2. I love when people call for Iwata or whomever to get fired. Shut up. That's a shitty thing to say about someone.

3. Even worse is when people think Nintendo should just pay off third parties. It's counterproductive. Imagine paying someone to be your friend. Yeah, they'll be friends with you as long as you keep buying them things. When you don't/can't, they'll drop you like a bad habit. And paying for token support is a bad habit and one Nintendo would be flat-out fucking stupid to try.

4. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze looks awesome. All the complaining about the game is a shame. "It's not what I wanted so it sucks. Humph!" Shut up and buy something else then.

5. I hope everyone complaining about these sequels eats their words when the industry crumbles and Nintendo is one of the few large publishers left standing because they didn't take all the insane risks you're proposing. You want them to bankroll millions into a game that might not sell. Nintendo is watching an entire industry do just that and fail miserably at it. Tomb Raider, despite its millions of units sold, didn't meet expectations. Fantastic.

Yet that's what people want from Nintendo. Are you out of your fucking minds? I understand wanting something new from Nintendo. I do. What some of you don't understand is the industry is in a shittier place because companies are spending frivolously. And Nintendo has published some smaller new IPs, notably on the 3DS eshop. "Ugh, that's not the kind of new IP I want." Shut the **** up. All of you.

To bring this full circle, my issue with Nintendo holding off on F-Zero, besides the reasoning being nonsense, is that it's not a terribly huge risk. F-Zero isn't an especially complicated game (e.g. Fast machines race fast), it already has a fan base, and it expands the library of releases. I see F-Zero as a legitimate grievance. Everything else is childish whinging.

/drops mic

[shingi_70]

1. I agree and would the 3DS even work as a Wii U gamepad due to the lack of power and smaller segmented screens.


2. I mostly agree and its sad nintendo a company known for legacy IP is currently this way.


3.Saying a CEO of a comapny who doesn't seem to be a good fit for the company isn't a bad thing. Look at Blackberry people were calling for the heads Lazardis and Balsille around 07. They didn't and they lost their main consumer base while trying to do half assed attempts at modern phones. Blackberry 10 is really good but look at the state of the comapny after those two chuckleheads finally left.


I want Ballmer outsed from Microsoft and he seems to get the job done finincally, despite stagnating the company creatively.


No ill will toward nintendo but its time for a change.




3.Buying exclusives isn't a bad thing.


4.Still think its a waste of Retro's talent and will under preform


5.Chances of a crash are slim to none at this point and Nintendo would be the most effected. What would Nintendo do if a crash did happen? They don't have other profitable divisions like Sony or Microsoft does to survive a crash. Plus a crash indicates that Video Games are no longer popular or are a bad investment and the stock/worth of a Video game focused company would plummet in today's climate. Six months later if nintendo wouldn't be dead they'd be selling themselves and shooting up in ios Lane.


5. Why are you being so angry that people don't share your opinion. I mean the new 3DS IP are great, but where is that type of support for the Wii U. Also having new eshop IP doesn't nesccailly mean you stop nw IP at a retail level.




 
New   IP released or announced by Microsoft this year
Galactic Reign
Gunpowder
Monsters love candy
Ascend Hand of kul
State of Decay
Lococycle
Crimson Dragon
Ryse Son of Rome
Quantum Break
Project Spark
D4
Sundet Overdrive Below


You'd think the actual video game focused company would be the one constantly putting out new Ideas and not reallying on the hopes people do't get tired of the holy trifecta. 

[Adrock]

I don't care if someone has a different opinion than me. It's good for discussion sometimes. My issue is when you chuckleheads aren't creating entire topics to complain about everything, you're bringing your whining into like every unrelated thread. I could start a topic about cupcakes and someone would somehow, some way connect it to how Nintendo is making too many sequels or how Wii U hardware is underpowered. Air your grievances, sure. In almost every topic? That's not excessive to you?

And the demands from some of you are wholly unrealistic and one-sided. You want all these things without the responsibility of dealing with the consequences if they fail. Nintendo still exists because they didn't listen to people like you. Yet, suddenly Nintendo is expected to just start tossing wads of cash at people/things. Why would anyone think that would happen? Are we talking about the same Nintendo? Or is there some sideways world I'm not aware of where Oceanic 815 never crashed and Nintendo does that kind of thing? People who have these unbelievable expectations have only themselves to blame, but they're going to complain about and blame Nintendo anyway.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I would buy the s*** out of a new F-Zero. If there are sufficient people out there who feel similarly, then that should be reason enough for Nintendo to release a new F-Zero. I guess that's the question though. Is there sufficient demand for F-Zero for it to be a profitable series?
 
Perhaps this is Miyamoto's polite way of saying that without some exciting new concept F-Zero would not shift enough copies to be worth investing in.
 
Does anyone have numbers on the Gamecube game for instance?

[UncleBob]

According to... ugh... Wikipeida...

"In Japan, F-Zero GX sold 100,981 units[68] and became qualified for the Player's Choice line in both Europe[69] and North America[70] by selling at least 250,000 copies.[71]"

I don't agree with their reasoning for saying it sold 250,000 copies in the US and EU though.

Let's put it this way - if it had sold over a million copies, it would have been listed in one of the various shareholders reports by Nintendo.  I can't seem to find any evidence it ever was.

[lolmonade]

According to... ugh... Wikipeida...

"In Japan, F-Zero GX sold 100,981 units[68] and became qualified for the Player's Choice line in both Europe[69] and North America[70] by selling at least 250,000 copies.[71]"

I don't agree with their reasoning for saying it sold 250,000 copies in the US and EU though.

Let's put it this way - if it had sold over a million copies, it would have been listed in one of the various shareholders reports by Nintendo.  I can't seem to find any evidence it ever was.

I thought I had read somewhere that sales of F-Zero GX were disappointing.  I don't know what the threshold for a game like this is to be considered successful, but Miyamoto should have just been forthcoming and said "the last F-Zero game we released didn't sell all that well, and we don't believe there is a large enough market to recoup the costs of development". 

It's not like they've forgotten about the franchise (it was featured in Nintendoland!), and I know they want to frame their reasoning for the way they do things as consumer-friendly, but Miyamoto's comments sound a bit disingenuous, especially with the way Nintendo has been milking New Super Mario Bros.

Especially now that the Wipeout franchise is in limbo, F-Zero is in a situation where it could be THE ONLY futuristic racer.  Hell, even if they created an E-Shop exclusive title with online racing, I'd be extremely pleased, and that way they could circumvent the cost of retail entirely.