Topic: Is the Wii U underpowered?

[Jabs]

I am not the Final Fantasy loyalist that I used to be in the past. The series has lost its teeth and I do not see future games being profitable enough for SE to avoid major financial difficulties.

Personally I think we will be seeing a few high profile failures before some more sane games start to come along. Higher end hardware doesn't require a higher budget, it's just the choice most publishers/developers go down to stay competitive.


If the competition is scared enough by the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars then we shall see a much more reasonable set of titles coming out for all platforms. Publishers are still out trying to find the limits of what they can grab at.[size=78%] [/size]

[broodwars]

The next generation is expensive its a simple as that. Most developers can't survive now with a game selling less than a million copies simply because they lose so much cash on them. Budgets are set to double at least for these high end machines, sales expectations are going to be higher than ever.

I am not the Final Fantasy loyalist that I used to be in the past. The series has lost its teeth and I do not see future games being profitable enough for SE to avoid major financial difficulties.

Considering you obviously don't own a non-Nintendo system (it's the only logical conclusion considering all you ever do is whine and speculate over games coming to Nintendo platforms), I am really interested to know how you "know" from your own experience that the series has "lost its teeth". I've played the HD Final Fantasies, and while they have their problems, I'll still take them over that piece of **** known as Final Fantasy 12, the nostalgia-fest (with little else noteworthy about it) known as FF 9, the abysmal FF 8, and the extremely overrated FF 7.

From where I stand, people hate on the 13 games because they don't like change, and they aren't willing to accept that there can be different interpretations of the core Final Fantasy concepts. Hell, I even like the battle system, for pretty much the same reason I prefer Ogre Battle 64 to Tactics Ogre: I like the focus on managing the flow of battle.

Yes, I like Final Fantasy 10. It's probably my favorite Final Fantasy game.

[Oblivion]

PREACH IT TO THE CHOIR BROODWARS


FFX is my favorite Final Fantasy, and probably my favorite game of all time. That probably due to it being my first console game, however.

[broodwars]

PREACH IT TO THE CHOIR BROODWARS


FFX is my favorite Final Fantasy, and probably my favorite game of all time. That probably due to it being my first console game, however.

I'm really looking forward to FF X HD, hopefully coming out by the end of the year. From the looks of what Square-Enix has released, they've replaced so many models they've practically remade the game. And S-E just confirmed today that the game will have the International Edition content that was rumored to be DLC.

And don't ask about X-2. I tried to get through that game a few years ago, and it was not a particularly pleasant experience. 

[Oblivion]

I actually loved X-2, simply because that it was still one of my first console games (I was basically a handheld dude for the longest time) and I was a horny little kid.


And yeah, I'm pressed by the remaking of all the character models. To me, that's much more than just an HD rerelease so I don't care how long it takes for them to finish it.

[Kytim89]

I always thought that FF X and its sequel were two of the worst games ever produced.

[broodwars]

I always thought that FF X and its sequel were two of the worst games ever produced.

Nope. Sorry, but I'm not taking that bait. You're going to have to be more creative than that, if that's within your capabilities.

[Oblivion]

I always thought that FF X and its sequel were two of the worst games ever produced.

Have you even played a PS2 before?

[Kytim89]

I always thought that FF X and its sequel were two of the worst games ever produced.

Have you even played a PS2 before? :

I used to own a PS2 and plethora of games for it and the PS1. At one time I was a devoted Sony fan biy and then I started to like Nintendo games, and third parties that supported them. As for not liking FF X and X-2, I played and beat the first game, and thought the battle system, up grade system, and overall quality of the game was not all that good. Final Fantasy 12 was far superior.

[Adrock]

the nostalgia-fest (with little else noteworthy about it) known as FF 9

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!!2

[pokepal148]

I've played the HD Final Fantasies, and while they have their problems, I'll still take them over that piece of **** known as Final Fantasy 7, the nostalgia-fest (with little else noteworthy about it) known as FF 7, the abysmal FF 7, and the extremely overrated FF 7.

fixed

[Ian Sane]

The concept of a "secret core" is silly mostly because the hardware is still in every Wii U so it would be part of the manufacturing cost.  Why would any company pay a higher manufacturing cost for something they're not using?  What advantage is gained in secretly having better specs and not telling anyone about it?

The Wii U is thus far following a pretty similar blueprint as the Wii.  It's had the Miis, it's got Mario, it's got "Wii" in the title, it's got a gimmick controller.  The games don't look all that cutting edge.  They didn't look cutting edge on the Wii because the hardware was underpowered.  Nintendo also has once again been coy about the specs.  So either they're doing that to hide how lousy the specs are or they're really out-of-touch and don't realize how potentially damaging all this is and how it could all be solved by just revealing the specs.  They've got third parties crapping on their hardware and they STILL don't release the specs publicly if doing so would establish that all this is overblown?  This isn't just talk, third parties are pulling support.  Statements about how this hardware is no good and that engine can't be done is very damaging.  The third party support has taken a nosedive and the console isn't selling.

Nintendo has multiple fires going on at once and doesn't put this one out?  They can't.  It's obvious they can't or they would.  Nintendo released marketing material detailing very specifically that the Wii U is a different console from the Wii because there was some confusion and the felt that maybe it was hurting sales.  Would not the image of the Wii U being old-ass last gen hardware also hurt sales.  Would not Nintendo make an effort to correct that image if they could?  If the Wii U was truly not underpowered then there wouldn't be multiple accounts from devs saying that it is and you could go and look up the real specs delivered straight from Nintendo themselves as you could with every console they released prior to the Wii (ie: they stopped releasing specs when they became something to hide).

Want another example?  MS had all the negative rumours about locking out used games.  That could be very damaging and yet they never ever said "of course not!  That's ridiculous!" because it was true.  That's why they wouldn't comment on it, that's why they're coy and obtuse about it now - it's shitty and it's true and they're hoping you don't notice.  If you're being coy about something when being honest would end the discussion immediately, you have something to hide.  "I won't dignify that with a response" means "yes that thing you're accusing me of is 100% true."

[Mannypon]

I find it amusing how people are quick to label the Gamepad as a gimmick controller when the PS4's remote is, IMO, more of a gimmick than the Gamepad.  They both provide tradition control inputs but the Gamepad's touch screen provides so many more uses and implementations that I wouldn't go so far as calling it a gimmick.  The PS4's touchpad is a gimmick IMO, its a feature that will never really serve any legitimate purpose and it has no way near as much as potential as the Gamepads.  Whether these potentials are eventually realized is another story but that's not what I'm discussing here.  Some may say the fact that the Gamepad provides off TV play warrants its existence in and of itself where others will want more.  Regardless though, I don't see the Gamepad as a gimmick as the experience it provided with ZombiU is unique and worth while IMO and the off TV play feature is the other unique aspect of it from the other end of the spectrum. 

[Adrock]

Sony originally locked the full speed of the PSP CPU at 266 MHz before unlocking the full 333 MHz like two years after release with a firmware update. I don't think Sony ever officially explained why they locked the CPU, but most speculated it was due to battery life concerns.

There was also a rumor (I don't remember if it was confirmed) that Nintendo did something similar with 3DS and unlocked a second CPU for 25% more processing. I'd imagine battery life being a concern here as well. I believe this rumor also mentioned something about Nintendo figuring out a way of handling stereoscopic 3D which would reduce the strain on the CPU for more processing power (of course, not using 3D entirely would help out even more).

If this additional core thing is true, the battery life explanation doesn't really work here. I guess the dev kit reasoning works. Even so, I doubt it would open up Wii U to Super Saiyan levels of power like people are making it seem.

Anyway, Wii U is underpowered compared to PS4/One. However, I'm pushing the shenanigans broom on anyone acting like good games can't still be made on it. The only thing many of these companies are improving is the graphics. They could use that extra processing on better AI and whatnot, but they're probably going right for graphics because they learned nothing about the last seven years.

I wish Sony and Microsoft weren't launching successors later this year. Or if they insist, sell hardware at a minimal loss. No one would feel the pressure to take advantage of processing power that isn't available. It's not good for the industry to keep pushing expensive technology when even the largest publishers are struggling to keep up with it. As consumers, we don't see the effects of these losses until companies close shop and we just won't get games from them anymore. Why would anyone want that?

By the way, the GamePad is a gimmick. That's not inherently bad. People just often read it that way. I love the GamePad though only games that can use it well should use it at all. Just because something is there doesn't mean it has to be forced into every game.

[broodwars]

I find it amusing how people are quick to label the Gamepad as a gimmick controller when the PS4's remote is, IMO, more of a gimmick than the Gamepad.  They both provide tradition control inputs but the Gamepad's touch screen provides so many more uses and implementations that I wouldn't go so far as calling it a gimmick.  The PS4's touchpad is a gimmick IMO, its a feature that will never really serve any legitimate purpose and it has no way near as much as potential as the Gamepads.  Whether these potentials are eventually realized is another story but that's not what I'm discussing here.  Some may say the fact that the Gamepad provides off TV play warrants its existence in and of itself where others will want more.  Regardless though, I don't see the Gamepad as a gimmick as the experience it provided with ZombiU is unique and worth while IMO and the off TV play feature is the other unique aspect of it from the other end of the spectrum.

Well, to me what makes the GamePad more problematic is its sheer size. The thing's so damn big that it actually impedes functionality in my case b/c the buttons & triggers are harder to reach. And every single game just HAS to use that damn screen for something. You can't turn it off while using the controller. The gimmicky features stand out more. Meanwhile, with the Dualshock 4, the gimmick is a small touch pad with click functionality slapped onto more or less an existing Dualshock 3. It's a Dualshock 3 with new functionality that both developers and players can easily choose to ignore. The touch pad is a pure gimmick, without question, but it's tiny and a gimmick you can ignore so it stands out less.

[Oblivion]

The buttons are NOT harder to reach. I know you hate the system, but you should probably spend some more tie with the Gamepad to remind yourself how good it actually is.

[broodwars]

The buttons are NOT harder to reach. I know you hate the system, but you should probably spend some more tie with the Gamepad to remind yourself how good it actually is.

My, you love to jump to conclusions. I don't "hate" the Wii U. It's simply a console that's been so completely irrelevant that I don't even keep it hooked up (I keep it on a shelf near a power outlet so I can plug the unit in occasionally to use just the GamePad to download things off the eShop). That's not the same as "hate". It's "disinterest," and I've had plenty of experience with the Gamepad. It's a terrible controller that's too big with triggers that are too far apart to use at one time without completely rearranging your hand.  By contrast, I can practically use the Dualshock 3 one-handed; I can easily access all buttons and triggers at one time, and it's probably 3-4 times lighter than the Gamepad. That's why I use the Pro Controller instead, which is far better.

[Ian Sane]

I don't think Sony is going to market the whole console around the touchpad.  It's like the Gamecube clicky triggers - a minor update to the controller that most games won't make real use of.

But Nintendo's controller is front and center for the marketing.  Oh and it's expensive.  It follows the Wii model where the guts of the hardware is compromised to pay for the tech of the controller.  I don't think for a second that the PS4 has been compromised to pay for the touchpad but I am damn sure of that with the Wii U.  It follows the Wii philosophy where a hardware upgrade was not the key in providing a purpose for a new generation but rather a new way to control games.  The Wii U is the same thing.  It is nothing fancy in terms of hardware but it has this new controller that will (supposedly) introduce new gaming concepts.

I don't care if there are gimmicky and borderline useless elements on a controller provided I lose nothing.  But expecting me to buy a glorified last gen console because it comes with controller gimmicks that were already demonstrated to be borderline useless years ago on the DS?  Yeah then I care.  Now I am losing something.  I also don't like it when games I like use stupid gimmicks and are worse off for it.  If shitty casual games wanted to use the DS touchscreen, whatever, the better games just used the conventional controls.  Oh but Zelda had to have forced touchsreen usage and controlled like ****.  Okay, NOW I have a problem with it.  If Sony ruins one of their games with dumb forced touchpad usage then I'll crap on them too (like how Lair was a disaster because of forced motion control).

[Oblivion]

The buttons are NOT harder to reach. I know you hate the system, but you should probably spend some more tie with the Gamepad to remind yourself how good it actually is.

My, you love to jump to conclusions. I don't "hate" the Wii U. It's simply a console that's been so completely irrelevant that I don't even keep it hooked up (I keep it on a shelf near a power outlet so I can plug the unit in occasionally to use just the GamePad to download things off the eShop). That's not the same as "hate". It's "disinterest," and I've had plenty of experience with the Gamepad. It's a terrible controller that's too big with triggers that are too far apart to use at one time without completely rearranging your hand.  By contrast, I can practically use the Dualshock 3 one-handed; I can easily access all buttons and triggers at one time, and it's probably 3-4 times lighter than the Gamepad. That's why I use the Pro Controller instead, which is far better.

You shouldn't be using it one-handed, so that's kind of irrelevant. And considering how small I am and how small my hands are, I should be the one with issues with the Gamepad. And since I don't, it must be operator error or confirmational bias from when you hadn't gotten the Gamepad yet. If you're secretly 5'3" with tiny hands, then we may be getting somewhere.

[ShyGuy]

Does Broodwars only have one hand? That could explain his issues with the gamepad.

[Agent-X-]

Being underpowered is not a matter of opinion. It is, or it isn't. Simple as that. And like it has already been established... it is.

Oh YOU... YOU win. Ok?


And the PS3 was underpowered last generation due to the inferior graphics card it was given. The 360 bested it.


The PS2 was underpowered as well. It was inferior to GameCube AND Xbox.


The original Playstation was also underpowered. There was no way for it to do even half the stuff the N64 did.

Can we finally put this debate to rest? The factor by which the Wii U is underpowered is far less relevant today than the storage medium capacity that hamstrung the N64 or the RAM limitations that bit the GameCube. We don't even need to dredge up the Wii's technical limitations. The Wii U simply isn't in any way, shape, or form that far behind the PS4.

[ShyGuy]

so what is the CERTIFIED power level?

[Adrock]

so what is the CERTIFIED power level?

[Oblivion]

Being underpowered is not a matter of opinion. It is, or it isn't. Simple as that. And like it has already been established... it is.

Oh YOU... YOU win. Ok?


And the PS3 was underpowered last generation due to the inferior graphics card it was given. The 360 bested it.


The PS2 was underpowered as well. It was inferior to GameCube AND Xbox.


The original Playstation was also underpowered. There was no way for it to do even half the stuff the N64 did.

Can we finally put this debate to rest? The factor by which the Wii U is underpowered is far less relevant today than the storage medium capacity that hamstrung the N64 or the RAM limitations that bit the GameCube. We don't even need to dredge up the Wii's technical limitations. The Wii U simply isn't in any way, shape, or form that far behind the PS4.

Few issues with your post. I'm not sure if your first comment was sarcastic enough. Second, the PS3 technically had the most power, but very few developers besides first parties hardly ever took advantage of if due to the retarded Cell architecture.


The PS1 was technically weaker, but the N64 had the retarded cartridges that developers had to work with and made certain things difficult. Hell, certain games are still hard to emulate with today's technology because of how weird it was made.

[Ian Sane]

You all do realize that when anyone says "underpowered" they don't mean on a technicality level?  The Wii to PS3 comparison was not PS2 to Gamecube it was more like PS1 to Gamecube.  I'm fine with the Wii U being the PS2 of its gen.  In fact that would be very conventional since it came out a year earlier.  The Wii U SHOULD be less powerful than the PS4 and XB1 since they have an extra year of tech to work with.  The problem is if the Wii U is more like a PS3 going against a PS4.  That was the problem with the Wii so when you spout of how the NES beat the Sega Master System or PS1 beat the N64 it is complete nonsense and is not comparable at all.  You're talking about a 17 year old facing an 18 year old in a fight and I'm talking about a 10 year old fighting an 18 year old.