Topic: Have Nintendo ceded a legacy?

[Pixelated Pixies]

It was such a well realised, fully formed and pioneering action game that nearly 20 years later it still defies any straight forward categorisation. Realising the promise of it's predecessor, this game brought together action, exploration, platforming, boss battles, power ups, and atmosphere, and did so with such mastery that it almost feels like it had to have been grown, as if by some natural occurrence, rather than painstakingly designed. But designed it was.

That's right, Super Metroid is a classic. Samus might not be as recognisable as Mario, Metroid might not have as many devoted fans as Zelda, and it sure as hell doesn't make as much money as Pokémon, but what it does have is a pretty prestigious legacy. One, which I don't think Nintendo has always done a good job of maintaining or furthering.
 
The Metroid Prime Trilogy is a superb series, and more than worthy of being considered the equal of it's 2D counterparts, but it is also a very different collection of games. The Prime games are tangentially related perhaps, but they don't necessarily represent the legacy of Super Metroid.

Metroid Fusion on the other hand, released concurrently with Prime 1, was very much a sequel to Super Metroid. Which isn't surprising, given that it was made by the same design team behind it's 1994 predecessor. Taking most of it's ideas from Super Metroid (and who can blame them?) Fusion felt like the sequel Metroid fans had been asking for, albeit more streamlined than the most ardent would have preferred.

A few years later in 2004 we also saw the release of Metroid: Zero Mission, an enhanced remake of the original Metroid. Despite being a remake of the original, once again Super Metroid was the true inspiration here, and the game is all the better for it.

Then, in 2010 we saw the release of Metroid: Other M (a collaboration between Nintendo and Team Ninja), which was in my opinion a really good game, and one which attempted to bridge the gap between the 2D games and the Prime games. Compared to those two series', however, it had substantial design, control and story issues, and thus marked the first stain on an otherwise clean report sheet for the Metroid series.

So that's it. A sequel (Fusion), a remake (Zero Mission), an offshoot (Metroid Prime Trilogy) and, depending on who you talk to, a disappointment (Other M). Compared to Nintendo's other historically important series', that not a lot.

Indeed, it could be argued that Super Metroid's legacy (particularly in recent years) is not best witnessed in those games which Nintendo have made, but rather in those games which it hasn't.

Cave Story (2004)
La Mulana (2005)
Shadow complex (2009)
Shantae: Risky's Revenge (2010)
Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet (2011)
Aliens: Infestation (2011)
Guacamelee (2013)
Too many Castlevania games to mention.

These games, and many more, owe a great deal of debt to Super Metroid. To varying degrees, they've also being pretty successful. There is clearly an audience for these Metroid-inspired games, Nintendo owns the rights to the progenitor of all of them, why aren't they making more of that fact? Where's my Metroid on 3DS (can you imagine the hidden secrets that could be designed to take advantage of stereoscopic 3D)? Where's my downloadable Metroid Ă  la Shadow Complex (scanning the environment with the Gamepad would be a no brainer)?...Where...Where's my Metroid Dread?
 
What do you guys think? Has Nintendo effectively ceded the Metroid legacy to other developers? Do these other games stack up to Nintendo's own? What exactly happened to Metroid Dread? What exactly was Sakamoto thinking when he chose not to include a control option for the Nunchuck? Just how many questions can I pose at the end of this post? Let me know.

[NWR_insanolord]

I haven't played a lot of the games you listed, although I did buy Guacamelee this morning. Whst I can tell you, though, is none of the ones I have played lived up to the standards Nintendo has set. Maybe it's just me being a Nintendo fanboy, but like with Mario and Zelda, the Metroid clones can't seem to capture the magic of Nintendo's own offerings.

This only exemplifies the question you're asking. If nobody can nail the intricate level design and top-notch sense of atmosphere that Nintendo has in (most of) their Metroid games, why is Nintendo resting on its laurels and not doing what, at most, very few outside them have shown themselves able to do?

I agree that a 2.5D Metroid game on 3DS makes way too much sense not to have happened yet, and given that Nintendo has exhausted most of their franchises on the platform I think there's a reasonable chance we'll see one at E3 this year. I think Nintendo might be wiser to make a Metroid game on the Wii U, even if it's the same game as the 3DS one would be, because the series has historically been much more popular in the West than in Japan, and captures a demographic Nintendo likely wants to attract to the Wii U.

Regardless of what form it takes, I, too, really want to see another entry in the series. I was never a fan until the release of Super Metroid on the Virtual Console, but have since fallen in love with the series and can't wait to see what they do next.

[Oblivion]

A game that owes it's existance but one you didn't mention is Scurge: Hive. VERY good isometric platformer/shooter for the GBA/DS, that never got a sequel. In my opinion, the main character was almost a better heroine than Samus herself.


And not a big fan of the 2D Metroids, but I do like them. However, the Prime Trilogy is just perfect. I love everything about that trilogy.

[NWR_insanolord]

I can't count the number of times I almost bought Scurge: Hive, but I never actually went through with it. It looked interesting, but never interesting enough, I suppose.

[Ian Sane]

Other M is garbage and lacks the non-linear gameplay that makes Metroid what it is in the first place.  But it was created by the series' creator and it does say "Metroid" on the box.  It came out less than three years ago.

Nintendo isn't going to think "well it's been years since we released a good Metroid game or one that fans would consider a 'real' one".  To them Metroid is whatever they decide it is and it's only been a few years since a Metroid game so it isn't like they've abandoned the series.  They would not think they've ceded Metroid's legacy to other developers.  To them it's an active series.

And Nintendo didn't used to milk their series to all hell.  Remember that when OoT came out it had been five years since the last Zelda and it didn't seem weird.  Metroid skipped a gen, which was a little strange, but the typical release schedule is one or two games per generation, with maybe some extra to have one on the handheld and one on the console.  Metroid has been way more proliferic since Metroid Prime and Fusion came out.  If Other M was good we wouldn't have this conversation.  We got two Gamecube Metroids and two Wii Metroids, which seems pretty typical.

Sadly I don't think Sakamoto's view of Metroid is the same as ours and Nintendo as a company seems to dislike the series because it isn't popular in Japan and, let's face it, is a pretty damn hardcore game series that does not fit the mass market aspirations of Nintendo's other franchises.

[NWR_Neal]

I like how J.P. says he hasn't played most of the games listed and then says they don't live up to Nintendo's quality. HOW YOU EVEN KNOW?!?!

[ymeegod]

Metroid doesn't sell in Japan--hense no love from Nintendo.  Last in house Metroid game was Metroid Prime Corruption 3 in 07' and I doubt we're going see another one anytime soon.



 

[NWR_insanolord]

I like how J.P. says he hasn't played most of the games listed and then says they don't live up to Nintendo's quality. HOW YOU EVEN KNOW?!?!

I specifically based that on the ones I have played, as I said in my post. I may have generalized too much in making my point, and if so I apologize.

[Luigi Dude]

Metroid doesn't sell in Japan--hense no love from Nintendo.  Last in house Metroid game was Metroid Prime Corruption 3 in 07' and I doubt we're going see another one anytime soon.

The original Metroid Prime sold like **** in Japan and yet Nintendo still allowed 2 more sequels based on Western sales.  This whole notion that Nintendo doesn't care about Metroid because of Japanese sales needs to stop because it's completely false.  If the Japanese sales were all Nintendo cared about why didn't we see several Star Fox games last gen since Star Fox Adventure and Assault sold more in Japan then the Metroid Prime games did?  Pikmin was a way more popular series in Japan, and yet there wasn't a single Pikmin game released for the Wii while Metroid got two games.  Hell, every Donkey Kong Country game and even Donkey Kong 64 were million sellers in Japan, and yet it still took Nintendo over a decade to release a new Donkey Kong in a similar style to that series again despite the Japanese being crazy for it.

Unless it's the major sellers like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon that all have teams dedicated to just making them because of how popular they are, all the other Nintendo series depend on what studio's and teams have people who can make these games and if they want to make them at the time.  In the case of Metroid, after Prime 3, Retro didn't want to make another Metroid game and so Nintendo allowed them to work on something that wasn't Metroid.  In the case of Other M, Sakamoto wanted to make another Metroid again since it had been many years since his last, but since his studio at Nintendo didn't have the resources to make a full 3D game, they got Team Ninja to help out.

Plus it's still only been less then 3 years since the last Metroid was released which really isn't that long ago.  In comparison the last Smash Bros was released over 5 years ago and yet you don't see people saying Nintendo doesn't love that series.  Hell considering the Miiverse leak that happened last Fall has been right about several upcoming game including Yoshi's Yarn and the DKCR 3DS port months before we knew about them, I'd say there's a very good chance a new Metroid is going to be announced at E3 this year since there was a Metroid game on that list, which makes a lot of comments about Metroid being dead now even more foolish then they already are.

[broodwars]

Something I think that has been rather unfortunate is that the Metroid design as a concept seems to have been permanently replaced in the public consciousness by the IGA 2D Castlevania style.  I am so ****ing sick of the way people just throw the term "Metroidvania" around, regardless of whether it actually applies.  For instance, people are using it right now to refer to Guacamelee, a game that features almost no actual RPG-style progression system and no "loot" at all.  You can buy a few upgrades in the game's shop, but for the most part it's cribbing pretty liberally from the Super Metroid handbook (right down to the "Chooso Statues" holding upgrades), not Symphony of the Night's.  And yet even people like the folks at Giant Bomb (who know better) still call it a "Metroidvania."  That kind of thing just irritates me.

[Pixelated Pixies]

Something I think that has been rather unfortunate is that the Metroid design as a concept seems to have been permanently replaced in the public consciousness by the IGA 2D Castlevania style.  I am so ****ing sick of the way people just throw the term "Metroidvania" around, regardless of whether it actually applies.  For instance, people are using it right now to refer to Guacamelee, a game that features almost no actual RPG-style progression system and no "loot" at all.  You can buy a few upgrades in the game's shop, but for the most part it's cribbing pretty liberally from the Super Metroid handbook (right down to the "Chooso Statues" holding upgrades), not Symphony of the Night's.  And yet even people like the folks at Giant Bomb (who know better) still call it a "Metroidvania."  That kind of thing just irritates me.

I completely agree. Being a huge fan of both the Metroid series and the Castlevania series that term has never really worked for me. Mostly because, as you say, it's often used incorrectly.

[Ceric]

...
right down to the "Chooso Statues" holding upgrades)
...

I'm sad that its not Chorizo Statues.  Its still close enough and it be sausage as well.

[Ian Sane]

If you don't called it a "Metroidvania", what do you call it?  That's the generally used term for this type of game and Metroid and Symphony of the Night are clearly similar enough to lump together in the same genre (hell I like both series for the exact same reasons).  Is the issue merely that some games don't have the RPG elements of Castlevania?

The best term I can come up with sidescrolling adventure game so as to distinguish it from a top-view adventure game like Zelda or point-and-click adventures or text adventures.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I guess what I object to is Castlevania receiving credit for copying Metroid's homework. Symphony of the Night, most agree, is a pretty blatant attempt to make a Metroid game (which is fine in my books). It did introduce a few of it's own ingredients, in particular some RPG elements, but it was very much patterned after Super Metroid.
 
I'm ok with a game being called Metroidvania if it was in fact inspired by some of the tweaks that Castlevania introduced to the formula, but if a game does not have those RPG elements then I really don't see why 'vania' should even be mentioned. Without the RPG elements Symphony of Night was a straight up Metroid clone. I just don't think Castlevania deserves equal billing.
 
As to what those types of games should be called? I have no idea, but surely anything would be better than 'Metroidvania'?

[Ian Sane]

To be cheeky I could point out that Castlevania II, which was not released that long after Metroid, contained some of the elements of this genre.  But deep down I know that Symphony of the Night is what put "vania" in the "Metroidvania" term.

[Fatty The Hutt]

As to what those types of games should be called? I have no idea, but surely anything would be better than 'Metroidvania'?

How about Metroid-Mania? Huh? Huh?


Yeah, I got nothing.


Never played SOTN. Been meaning to get around to that. Is it difficult?