Topic: Dual analog -- help me

[azeke]

I can't deal with it. At all.

I get extremely frustrated trying to work it. It's like my entire body, brain and fingers resist while i try to play that way.

In third person games it's a tad better but still pretty bad once i try aiming.

And it isn't just analog aiming. I tried RE5 and Gears 3 demo on 360 and just gave up trying to remember all combinations of triggers i have to press at the same time sometimes going up to three buttons for pretty mundane things like melee. I can play pretty complicated musical pieces on piano just fine, but this?..

Also tried tutortial for Vanquish demo, and i think my brain just broke halfway through. Especially when i boosted (AR mode it was called i think) and had to circle along the walls, i just couldn't make camera show me what i want while i was moving at the same time. Had similar experiences with Infamous on shop demo unit.

What should i do? I really wish to learn this, so that i would play games where dual analog is the only available option.

As one can guess, i am mouse keyboard guy, and i had zero problems with wii games that used wiimote+nunchuck.

Any techniques, advices? Already tried all combinations of inverting (i think vertical inverse horizontal normal works for me a tad "better", but it's still shitty and unplayable for me). Maybe i should tinker with speed?

[Adrock]

Keep trying. You'll only get better if you keep doing it. I'd recommend starting with a slower, non-twitch reaction game that uses dual analog. I only played the demo of Vanquish, but it was really fast and had a lot going on. The game, from what I remember, requires that you're frequently moving since your cover can be destroyed so there's no camping until it's safe. Movement in Resident Evil 5 is a lot slower. Play co-op with someone who knows how to play the game so they can cover you and revive you. That way you get to keep playing. The problem with RE5 is that you don't get to move and shoot at the same time, but I think the default option has walking/running movement mapped to both analog sticks. It's a start.

I had trouble with dual analog in the past and there's really no substitute for good old fashioned practice. I didn't invert anything and I left aiming speed in the middle until I got comfortable enough to increase its sensitivity.

[Oblivion]

I started with dual analog, so I never really "learned". I just did it. But I agree with Adrock, just practice. You'll learn it sooner or later.

[Morari]

Dual analog controllers are simply too slow and imprecise for any kind of game that requires aiming. Third person shooters, and especially first person shooters are an instant fail. I prefer a nice d-pad or stick for fighting games and platformers, too. I guess the racing genre works alright with analog sticks? It also doesn't help that games nowadays try to cram so many different actions onto these tiny controllers. There simply aren't enough buttons to properly accommodate your average game.

[TJ Spyke]

I have never had any problems with dual analog controllers for shooters. Those who do either have played games that don't do it well, or just don't have enough experience to be good. As for not enough buttons, I disagree. Very few games need more buttons than current controllers have.

[Oblivion]

Turn your sensitivity up all the way and it works.

[noname2200]

I'm with you. I've been trying to do dual analogue for three generations now, and the results have been nothing but failure. If you find anything that works, please share, because mere practice hasn't been enough for me either.

[KDR_11k]

Probably start with something easier. I was practically unable to handle dual analog controls on the Cube (playing Metal Arms was HARD) and for the early parts of this generation. I distinctly remember being unable to recall which button did what on Mirror's Edge. Something like Earth Defense Force (2017, avoid Insect Armageddon) may be an easy start since there's only four buttons in addition to the sticks (jump, shoot, switch weapon, zoom and the last one only applies to some weapons) and enemies are gigantic so you don't need any precise aiming.

[Hey Einstein!]

It was twin stick shooters that made it click for me, that followed by the Modern Warfare games played on easy. Now dual analog is my favourite control method.  Good luck!

[S-U-P-E-R]

Are we talking PS3 or 360 controller here? I feel like the Dual Shock has slightly unnatural stick placement and a little too much resistance for smooth aiming compared to the 360 controller.

You should definitely raise the sensitivity on most games, especially if you're coming from PC. I can't imagine a reason why it defaults so low on most games, other than for casual grandmas or something.

For adapting to a new controller in general, you have to put in a lot of time with it. If you ever play emulators, switch to whatever controller you're trying to get used to. Even if it's just an RPG that uses two buttons or whatever. You have to get comfortable with it.

The devil on my shoulder is telling me you're some kind of casual that doesn't play nearly enough, though. Prove him wrong!

[azeke]

Are we talking PS3 or 360 controller here?

360, as i said.

For adapting to a new controller in general, you have to put in a lot of time with it.

Button and stick placement is no problem at all. I play on gamecube, classic pro, xbox controller -- everything, as long dual analog isn't involved.

Oh and actual twin stick shooters (wii Centipede, Geometry Wars both on wii and xbox, Lara Croft and Guardian of Light) are of course play smooth as butter and i enjoy them a whole lot.

Even freaking Kid Icarus and Metroid Prime Hunters i can control (and i am a lefty!). But not dual analog.

[Do_What]

I think dual analog works for some things, but I think it's kind of mediocre for a lot. I think your problem may not be just dual analog, but poor controls in general. There are too many buttons used and not always mapped out well. Dual analog is awesome for Geometry wars, but those are the only buttons you need. In third person action games having to control the camera as well as using the face buttons for attacks is sometimes a chore and not always mapped out well. In third person shooters it can be an outright mess, especially for the ones that aren't gears knock offs with super stick cover systems. There are even some issues with FPS controls on dual analog that people are just okay with. CoD is fine because their framerate and such are so good that you don't have any input lag on the right stick. And other games auto target so fiercely that you just kind of have to get your reticule in the ball part for it to work.
I'm used to it, I think it's just fine. I prefer a mouse and keyboard or a game where I don't have to control the camera (I am a huge fan of the Gamecube Metroid Prime controls). I do wish that people would put a little more time into button layout, and what buttons do what and reexamine if we actually need to use all the buttons on the controller for every game. I'm thinking we don't. I had to quite using the controller on Dishonored because it just wasn't working for me.

[broodwars]

Dual analog controllers are simply too slow and imprecise for any kind of game that requires aiming. Third person shooters, and especially first person shooters are an instant fail. I prefer a nice d-pad or stick for fighting games and platformers, too. I guess the racing genre works alright with analog sticks? It also doesn't help that games nowadays try to cram so many different actions onto these tiny controllers. There simply aren't enough buttons to properly accommodate your average game.

You're not helping.

Like everyone else, I suggest you just keep practicing, as you'll eventually get used to the new control format.  I've always played games dual-analog so it just comes naturally to me, but it still usually takes me a long time to get used to new button layouts.  When I first started playing Playstation games, it took me probably the better part of a year to get used to thinking of my buttons in terms of their shape labeling, but now it's just second-nature to me.  Pick a game where you don't have to worry about rapid button-pressing or stick movement, and play it for an extended period of time and it should eventually get easier.

Of course, it helps that at that time I was working as a QA tester doing multi-platform development, so I had to get used to the 360 and PS3 button layouts very quickly. 

[accc]

Dual analog is a pretty terrible control method, all things considered. You simply don't have the same degree of control in your thumbs as you do in your hands or your wrist, which is why mice/wiimote/touchscreen/tilt controls obliterate joystick controls for anything requiring precision. It's also hugely inconvenient having to constantly move your right thumb back and forth between the face buttons and the unnecessary second joystick.

[ShyGuy]

Not all Dual Analog shooting games are created equal. I remember jumping from Golden Eye: Rogue Agent to Halo 2 and the difference was astounding. Best dual analog controls I've ever played? Left 4 Dead games on the 360.

It took me about a generation and a half to get used to dual analog. I still prefer remote pointer or mouse.

Mouse>>>>>>Wii Remote>>>Dual Analog

[S-U-P-E-R]

Well, I would say a dual analog controller is objectively the best choice for a 3rd person game where you need to control the camera. Probably also racing games if you don't have a wheel.

[Adrock]

Even freaking Kid Icarus and Metroid Prime Hunters i can control (and i am a lefty!). But not dual analog.

I'm a lefty too. I had a lot of trouble with Metroid Prime Hunters to the point where I just used the non-touchscreen aiming controls which just ended with me getting decimated in multiplayer (and it didn't help that it was in 1st person). Practice makes perfect though there weren't a lot of games that used the touchscreen aiming controls that I was interested in so I kind of gave up on learning. Fortunately for you, there are plenty of dual-analog games for you to choose from.

I just bought (but haven't opened) Kid Icarus Uprising. Due to my trouble with Metroid Prime Hunters, I'm a bit worried that I'll have a lot of trouble with the game though the Circle Pad Pro is supposed to help. I'll wait until I trade up to the XL before trying though.

[KDR_11k]

Well, I would say a dual analog controller is objectively the best choice for a 3rd person game where you need to control the camera.

Well, yeah, if you don't have a mouse at hand that's true.

[S-U-P-E-R]

 
It's a better choice than a mouse for something like Assassin's Creed or Dead Rising where you only need to move the camera occasionally, and you need your hand on a bunch of different buttons most of the time.

[Kairon]

I feel you azeke. The Wii U is going to brutalize me with games like ME3 that force dual analog. And I already suck at games so it's just gonna be really sad to see me playing for a really long time. God... It's going to be ridiculously embarrassing in online multiplayer...

I guess I'm just going to have to suffer and be really bad for a long time before I become sort of ok.

My situation might be slightly unique. I'm righthanded, but I benefit from using left-handed settings: I want things like Turok 2 on the N64: move with my right thumb, make fine aiming movements with my left thumb, which is more dextrous due to the D-pad finesse my right thumb never needed due to it's job being to push buttons.

[Hey Einstein!]

Dual analog is a pretty terrible control method, all things considered. You simply don't have the same degree of control in your thumbs as you do in your hands or your wrist, which is why mice/wiimote/touchscreen/tilt controls obliterate joystick controls for anything requiring precision. It's also hugely inconvenient having to constantly move your right thumb back and forth between the face buttons and the unnecessary second joystick.

Tilt controls are more accurate than dual analog sticks?
That's the opposite of my experience  but I'm not posting to call you out. I would genuinely love to know what tilt control games you had in mind.

[Oblivion]

I don't think he's talking about tilt, he's talking about pointer controls, which in my opinion is better than dual analog and in some cases better than mouse + keyboard.

[Hey Einstein!]

Not sure how you can draw that conclusion from the sentence. Just saying.

[NWR_insanolord]

He specifically mentions Wiimote controls separately from tilt.

[ShyGuy]

By tilt do you mean the sixaxis controls for Flower on the PS3?