Author Topic: Wind Waker 2  (Read 47352 times)

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Offline Hostile Creation

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Wind Waker 2
« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2003, 02:08:18 PM »
They're a part of the series, but you're right, they are in no way connected.

I know what you meant about the timeline thing.  That's the light that I thought of it in, too.  It'd be interesting if they did connect the stories somehow, but I, like you, also doubt it.
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Offline mjbd

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« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2003, 05:50:12 PM »
I am looking forward to the sequel.  I assume it will be a follow up story, kinda like MM was to OoT.  Wind Waker had a real smooth framerate, I would like the follow up sequel to be silk.  I'll admit it, I am a framerate whore, cant stand choppyness, even a little.  Looking forward to this one, I only wish nintendo would leak a little info before the end of the year.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2003, 03:02:53 AM »
Only slowdown I ever had in WW was when I'm killing about 20 miniblins at once (those annoying demon things that make that noise when they're near) in the Savage Labyrinth.

I can barely wait for F-zero.  Playing WW through again to get all of the Nintendo Gallery is fun, but I could sure go for something new.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
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Offline mjbd

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« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2003, 03:22:01 PM »
Its not slowdown in the sence that its really noticeable, more like a slight stutter.  The game runs smooth though, and thats a big deal to me.  I know the sequel probably wont be out until mid to late 2004, but I am already anxious.  I cant beleive that some people think that nintendo should scrap the WW engine, and start over.  To me, thats just crazy talk.  When you have a really good game engine, use it at least one more time.  Considering only one year of development time will be needed, hopefully we will see Zelda again in 2004.  
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Offline DRJ

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« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2003, 03:35:59 PM »
Quote

I cant beleive that some people think that nintendo should scrap the WW engine, and start over. To me, thats just crazy talk.


I agree. I would rather have a sequel one year later than wait four years for each new game. Make WW then a sequel. Then make a new engine and make a couple more. I also dont think that the engine should get milked either, 2-3 games then try something fresh.

 
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Offline Hostile Creation

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« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2003, 07:16:12 AM »
Exactly.  And that's what the generally seem to do, so I don't think we'll be disappointed.
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Offline JNethery

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« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2003, 08:05:57 PM »
I totally agree too. I really like the WW engine. It would be stupid to start over with a new engine when you have a perfectly good one. I think that you're absolutely right about "2-3 games then make a new engine". That seems to be a good number.
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Offline Oldskool

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« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2003, 04:02:52 AM »
MM was one of my favirote Zelda games. It used the exellent OOT engine, but the 3 day system was a fresh new concept. I hope they add a origonal concept to WW2, just to make it seem new and old at the same time, like MM.
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Offline JNethery

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« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2003, 02:10:39 PM »
Yeah, I really liked the 3 day system in MM too, I thought it was a cool concept. It would be nice to see something refreshing like that - but not like that.  
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Offline DRJ

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« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2003, 04:47:24 PM »
The next game will have a comlpetely different gimmic. Nintendo will not dissapoint.
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Offline KnowsNothing

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« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2003, 01:51:31 PM »
Well, IMO the 3 day system was horrible.  It was new, it was fresh, it was...annoying.  I never liked timed games. I like to explore, i like to, in a sense, waste time, not race against it.  MM didn't let me do that.  Sure, you could slow down time and go back in time, but then you'd lose, say, an important key in a dungeon and have to do it over again.  I want something new in WW2, in the sense that MM brought something new, but i don't wnat another timed system.

But I agree, Termina did have a charm to it that just wasn't there in Hyrule.  Cel-shaded Termina would be awsome, as would a cel shaded Koholint (Links Awakaning)*.  I'm not against using Termina again either.  I don't want a remake, but as long as the moon threat is gone, and they expaned the land a bit to add new areas and dungeons, going back to Termina would be a blast.

*  This gives me an idea.  Remember if you reached the end of the Great Sea?  it said it would be too dangerous to go further.  Maybe, in WW2, (Heh, World War 2 has the same initials, just noticed that) Link got a better boat and sailed off.  He could reach Koholint that way!  And Termina!  They could design Koholint and Termina in cel shaded and put them both in the new game!  
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Offline Ocarina Blue

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« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2003, 06:47:05 PM »
The most effective way to put a message across to an audience is to tell them a story. Turning an idea or message into a story is an important part of writing, this is why similes and metaphors are the fist techniques to be taught in schools. Almost all famous books, poetry, music and plays feature heavy use of these techniques. All of the popular books etc. have a strong message they try to put across, George Orwell, Shakespeare, William Wordsworth, Edgar Allen Poe are all good examples of this.  Another way of making a message easier to understand is to somehow involve the audience, movies do this by using first person perspectives and objects in the real world to represent what characters are thinking. Books do this by simply telling you what characters are thinking, because they have no visual barriers. Games have the potential to for all of this.

       Two of the side quests in Majora's Mask are good examples, the Anju and Kafei quest, and the Postman's quest. In the Anju and Kafei quest, Kafei is turned into a child, and has his wedding mask stolen, yet he beats this physically by getting his mask back, and mentally by marrying Anju despite being turned into a child. However, although the motivation for Kafei and Anju's actions are obvious, the only reason your character participates is to finish the game, not because you (the player) had a sudden burst of kind heartiness towards virtual characters. The quest fulfilled most areas, but it couldn’t offer a proper motivation for you to do it, it only punished you for not doing it. The postman's quest (the last part of it, anyway) involved the postman wanting to flee, but didn't dare, because he was obsessed with his job. But you could utilize this to set him free (by asking him to post the letter to the mayor's wife), who in turn told him that he could flee like everyone else. Once again, the game tried to give the player motivation to this by putting the postman in an unfortunate situation (wanting to leave, buy obsessed with his work, on the floor crying because of it), but people's emotions can't be aroused by virtual characters. If Majora's Mask was a movie, they could show Link shocked and distressed when he sees the postman, but because it is a game, and the player IS Link, they have to previously show that Link wants to help everyone he can, regardless of what they've done to him. In other words, because the game means little to the player, and the player controls the character, the character is emotionless; the only motivation that can be provided is a material reward at the end of a quest. If Nintendo could somehow show Link's emotion's in the next Zelda game, through some sort of notebook system where different characters get stamps or something overtime they are seen doing an act. Then games could be as deep as good books and poems, not as shallow as a lame action movie....  
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Offline Hostile Creation

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Wind Waker 2
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2003, 05:46:19 AM »
Well, they did a very good job of displaying Link's emotions in Wind Waker, though they could certainly improve it if they wanted to.  Him leaving home, seeing all the people in trouble.  He has more emotion in this game than ever before.  The only problem (sort of) is that no one aside from Link and a few deities realize that there is impending doom.  The world in general doesn't perceive danger, whereas in Majora's Mask, emotion were very strong and many people were desperate.  If the new world Link comes to was facing some sort of serious problem. . . a war, for example (though Nintendo could think up something better, I'm sure.  I didn't exactly spend time on that example), or maybe some supernatural power, like the moon in MM.  That would allow for Link's emotions to be shown quite often, and could do exactly what you described in your post.
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Offline DRJ

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« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2003, 08:13:28 AM »
Quote

The only problem (sort of) is that no one aside from Link and a few deities realize that there is impending doom


I agree. I'm playing through the game for the second time and I got to the Tower of the Gods and decided to go do most of the side quests that I could to get all the heart pieces and even some triforce maps and nobody really seams to care about anything. I spend use the wind waker to go through tons of days to get some of the nintndo gallery finished, and also to collect tons of money from the magic pot that tingle makes in your home village. And nobody cares. If I talk to the boad he will say something lije what are you doing, you have to prove yourself at the tower of the gods to save your sister, but that is about it. There is no real urgancy to move forward.

One thing I liked in MM was that there was only this much time to finish. Everybody was worried about the moon crashing into the earth.

I enjoy all Zelda games, and have especially liked OoT, MM, and WW. The sequel will be great. I would just like a litle more urgancy put in there to make it seem like what you are doing is important.
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Offline Xshadow

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« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2003, 04:15:55 AM »
ok here is what i want in the new Zelda. Gannon escapes the rock prison by telepathically blocking the other sages temples in Hyrule.  He then puts the master sword in Castle Hyrule.  AS Link you have to gather three somethings( like the gods pearls)" on an islaad above and enter Hyrule which is magicaly dried

Offline Oblivious

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« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2003, 07:43:04 AM »
Wow, you guys bring up alot of great points and views! I wonder if Nintendo will try and pull off a more realistic style instead of the not completely true cel shaded design of WW(True cel hading has outlines.) I saw the Spaceworld pics on IGN. I liked how non-linear WW felt. You could go anywhere. The only thing the game truly lacked was length. It could have gone on much longer but it didn't. I hope that Nintendo tries to make it longer this time.

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:Wind Waker 2
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2003, 03:15:41 AM »
As long as Ninty isn't pressured to put the next game out before a certain date, I'm positive there will be at least 2 more dungeons than there were in WW.
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: Wind Waker 2
« Reply #67 on: July 28, 2003, 04:36:18 PM »
I think that the GC Zelda's will be cel-shaded, but for the N5 they'll go back to the "OoT" style (or something close).

Actually, having the OoT character models, but cel-shading them would be the best of both worlds.  Nintendo used cel-shading in WW to make it similar to the first LoZ.  Shiggy wasn't partial to the darker style of OoT.  He could retain the fantasy aspect of the game with the toon-shading, but please more casual gamers with the familiar character (designs) from OoT.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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« Reply #68 on: July 29, 2003, 09:51:48 AM »
It's not that Miyamoto didn't approve of the darker style in OoT...It was that the animation wasn't fluid at all.  I remember in one interview with him he talked of the two different styles.  He said that the more realistic you make a game, it actually detracts from the game because it is extremely hard to create perfect animations for that more realistic character.  If this problem can be averted(such as with more powerful hardware) than I'm sure Miyamoto might gladly turn in that direction.  However, if there is no fluidity, then there's no chance.
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Offline Ocarina_Jedi

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RE:Wind Waker 2
« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2003, 04:30:26 PM »
You guys bring up a lot of good points, and I'm gonna try to hit the big ones.

I think that for WW2, Link and Tetra/Zelda will come to some new land that was created by the seeds of the Deku Tree.  If this is true, you can bet that their new foe will most likely be some spirit who had dwelt there for centuries since Hyrule was first flooded.  He'll abduct something/someone and Link must retrieve it/him/her or lift some curse from the land.  It's true that there have been successful games without Ganon, but how many people want to face another Majora's Mask?  I think that though the games without Ganon have been good, the best ones had Ganon.  This leads me to my next point:How many Zelda games have not had the Master Sword? (That's an honest question, I haven't played all of the games.)  In order for Link to get the Master Sword back, he'll have to return to Hyrule and pull out the sword.  This will most likely resurrect Ganon, who will reveal that the entire quest up to this point  was a trick so that he could be revived.

On minor notes:
1)  I agree that Termina would look good cel shaded, but I don't want to go back there in a new game, remake or not.
2)  I think that if WW2 is truly a sequel, characters such as the Rito brought back to further recreate the connection.
3)  I like the theory that Link's Awakening takes place after WW.  Maybe it even comes after WW2 and bridges to the next game.
4)  I think that WW2 will be fine with this engine, but I don't wanna see a WW3.  After this one, I would like to see a new concept with a new engine, and just maybe, those 'real' graphics we all know the GameCube is capable of.  (Picture Zelda with the graphics of StarFox Adventures.)
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Offline Ocarina Blue

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« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2003, 11:50:32 PM »
I really liked Majora's Mask, looking back, its definatley on my top 5 games of all time, which is more than I could say for Wind Waker. There was something about the sidequests that really made MM stand out for me (as I pointed out in my big post above), I loathed some of the dungeons though.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2003, 03:00:08 PM »
The upside down dungeon was bitchin', though.  That was so cool.

Yeah, I think it'd be nice to have a few Ritos make cameo appearances.  It'd also be interesting if the world they went to had other connections to Hyrule, like what may have happened to the Gerudos, or something like that.
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Offline Ocarina_Jedi

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« Reply #72 on: August 06, 2003, 05:46:17 PM »
Hey I never said that I didn't like Majora's Mask.  I thought that it was a great game, too.  I just meant that I wanted to fight a better boss than the Mask.  
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Offline Ocarina Blue

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« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2003, 10:26:13 PM »
Ah, OK, sorry about that. I really did like the Rito as well, I hope they are bought back in the next game. Another thing that hasn't come up for a while is voice acting. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that when asked at E3, Miyamoto said that voice acting was considered for WW, but dropped because everyone would have a different idea of what Link's voice sounds like. I agree with this, but because Link is meant to be you, Link never says anything anyway. I really think that (spoilers) having to read all the text when confronting Gannon at the end of WW really took away from the excellent atmosphere that the graphics and sound had created. What does everyone else think on the matter?
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Offline Hostile Creation

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« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2003, 10:56:13 AM »
I didn't mind the text at the end, liked it even, but if the rest of the game had been voice acted, then yes, it could have been more dramatic.

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