Topic: A few thoughts about this GBS vs PSP thing...

[Raising_Hell]

 After taking the time to read through a few pages of messages in the two topics on the new 'battle' in the handheld part of the gaming world I felt the need to compile some of the thoughts expressed and add some of my own, thoughts that unless I missed weren't discussed but if they were I'd like to apologize beforehand for I'm not trying to prove anything, I just think that some important things should be said.

First thing's first, the discussion about the new Sony handheld and the GBA spawned some nice things, mainly 2D gaming. Your concerns are as good as mine people. What will happen to 2d games and in what direction they will steer to remains to be seen but one thing is certain, gaming in general is dying. Think of it. What have Sony and Microsoft done in their effort to sell more systems and Sony will do once more with the PSP? They have transformed the gaming scene into a multimedia scene. Hardware that so gloriously began life as a piece of elecrtonics made only for gaming is now being sold and developed as a multi-entertainment machine, something like those large printer-scanner-photocopier-fax machines, the ones that have it all but don't do any one of their functions perfectly. This I believe, hurts gaming. Making 3rd party developers flock to the machine that has managed to sell the most and trying to develop games for it is no solution, because your not making games for a machine that was bought for gameplay, your making a game for a stereo/DVD-player that can -surprise, surprise- play games on the side! Games now are the secondary function of these machines or at least they will be in the future, the PSP is already the first one! "The walkman of the 21st century" said Sony. That's walkman, not handheld console.

So what is the result of this? Look at the trio PS2, Xbox, GC. You have the market leader having outsold the other two by 5 to 1, having been stormed by software from every developer you've heard of -or not. But what is the result? Most of the companies aren't making what they should be making. Why? This is a 51 million user base here, why aren't all 51 million buying many games? Simple, because they are using these machines (GC excluded of course) for more than that. OK, ok maybe it's not as bad as I am describing it but allow me to enlarge things abit to make things clear. This situation is a situation of GAMES developers trying to sell GAMES on multimedia machines, that were marketed as multimedia machines and that were bought as multimedia machines. The sales aren't as good as they should be because developers are making games for a false user base number and in order to make up for the poor sales of each game, there must follow a number of cheaper titles that make up for this loss (or miscalculation) and in turn make the money they intended to make. If this is not true then why is every major developer making more games per year than I can hope to remember? If this is not true, then why is Capcom, who are doing so very well on the Cube, putting less money into the user base that is made of 100% gamers, and putting more into a user base of which no one knows what percentage of it are gamers and how it will evolve in the future?

This may be far fetched, but in reality it is happening. Maybe in a small scale, but it will grow. It will grow when the multimedia machine stops looking like a console and starts looking like a stereo system. It will continue to grow when the majority of the pittiful and harmful, for gaming, masses of casual 'gamers' get used to the multimedia hardware. And it all starts with the PSP. So people, the death of 2D gaming not only means the death of it, but the death of us old hardcore gamers, and the death of the 'soul' of gaming in general.

I also saw the unavoidable comparisons between the GBA and the PSP that even had a result of bringing other handhelds as well as older consoles into the discussion. Well, the triumph of the GB so far has been in something I will metion later, but the important thing that seems to have the potential of killing the GBA is software.

The PSP is a piece of hardware that every developer grasps firmly now. The medium is probably cheaper than the GBA's and it certainly has alot more space to use which makes it more appealing. But, there might be a flaw in this superiority. 1st)What kind of company, is going to take a mere handheld seriously enough in order to spend plenty of money on developing a game for it that will be worthy of it's hardware and it's medium's size? (especially when efforts could be used to develop such a titles for a home console). 2)Let alone that the mere resolution of the screen won't allow for much anyway and we all know that no matter how simple a 3d game may be, it still needs more to be developed than a 2d game. So, the PSP may have a minidisc thing, MP3s, 3d, ect. but who will be willing to make something really good for it, and when I say good I mean as good as the better titles for GBA are in comparison to it's lesser titles. This will determine the field upon which the two handhelds will 'fight'. Pricing of software will play a role too.

I also read about how competition makes things better. Not always, and maybe not in this case. The PSP will be expensive no doubt, the games' price will depend on whether they are old or new, but as I said before it depends on what field the two will go head on. If Sony tries to persuade the developers to make 3d games for the machine then if the games are good enough, if the prices are right and if there is interest in portable 3d gaming, then I suppose the PSP will have a good chase at killing the GBA. On the other hand if the price development of 3d games on a handheld (no matter how easy) is too much, if the software price can't be kept at a good minimum, then most developers will probably prefer making 2d games for the PSP but this is a field in which the GBA is stronger and it might also not interest the consumer to pay $200+ for a handheld that has things one could get for less. Why pay alot for 2d games on the PSP when you can pay little for 2d games on the GBA? So the competition in this case may make things better in the price of the hardware, it depends on the PSP's price and what Nintendo will do to counter it, but form a software perspective, that meaning the quality of games, it won't matter much if at all because like bad pop music, the developers will be looking for the lucky combo that will sell and until they find it they will be releasing loads of useless things.

The last part that I believe will be the most significant area in which these two machines will compete is the area that has helped the GB emerege a winner over the years and that's the machine's design. We all know that the fight to take a part of the handheld industry from Nintendo is a song they've heard plenty of times before and i have to say that in th past the technological and cultural difference between the GB and it's competitors was much more radical. The poor old GB faced off both the Lynx and the GameGear, machines that were both black, had colored backlit screens, were many times more advanced that the GB and were marketed as cool consoles. But in the end the four-grey-toned dwarf beat them because of one thing, it was REALLY designed to be a handheld, literally, while the other two lacked due to their bulk and their not being all that flexible (for all this we must praise the late but unsurpassed gaming genuis Gupei Yokoi). As for Neo Geo Pocket and Wonderswan I cannot express an opinion because I haven't seen them upclose but I think the reasons for their failure was probably along the same lines. The importance of design can not and must not be underestimated. Nintendo no doubt expected a move like this from Sony as we all were ever since they released the PSOne, and the answer beforehand is the GBAsp. It's really a very thin GBA in the design of the old GB (a design that even though it being 14 years old is still unmatched) and it can also fold, making it the most portable handheld. So, Sony who want to cram a MP3 player, a USB port, a card reader, a radio (I think this was in the specs, can't reacall), an M-PEG4 decoder, a mini version of the PS1 hardware, a 4.5" backlit screen, a drive for the cartridged disk and the battery source, all in one small box hope to make something that can compete with the GBA on this level. Oh, I almost forgot, this is a PS so we need the d-pad, and we need four buttons at least. Let's see what they will do with the four shoulder buttons (I think they will be left out). I have no doubt that the result will be good-looking but when you consider the amount of mechanical parts in this thing (disk drive, buttons) they will take up plenty of space but I believe that not even god will be able to make something better than a GBAsp in the designe department. But there are other parts as we have all metioned.

All in all, I don't really want the PSP to do well. It's enough that I have to worry about an unfair world that praises those who sell it cheap games with uninnovative 20year old gameplay mechanics and buries the very games the imposters steal from, I don't need to have to worry about Nintendo losing in the only front that it still has a future until it repairs it's home console front. But, if I could have my wish, I'd wish that all these devils of people called 'casual gamers', who have violated to thing we love and live and breath for...I'd wish they would dissappear and go back to doing whatever it was they did before they discovered piracy and sexy 3d bimbos playing beach volley. I'd rather put up with them calling me names and making fun of me playing video games than having to put up with not killing them for trying to show off their skills and 'knowlege' to me just because they discovered Devil may Cry yesterday.

[EggyToast]

Well, casual gamers certainly have a place, and they DO make money for developers, and every hardcore gamer started out as a casual gamer.  They just need the right game to get them started, which is why there are so many Nintendo fans despite the consoles having changed so much.

Regarding your points, I think the most important thing for any handheld device is size and ease of use.  The PSP could do very well if it's very slim, and is essentially a clone of the GBA:SP but a little wider.  Think of a v. small laptop, or a slightly larger PDA -- very thin screen, and a flat panel for the controls and a slot for the games to slide in (likely exposed on the outside, like the Gameboys).  The ports could be trickier -- are they ever going to be used whilst playing?  If not, why are they included then?  And if so, are they going to ever get in the way?  The GBA:SP was smart, because, despite not having a headphone port included right out of the box, they decided to keep all of the wires out of the reach of the user whilst playing, so you can link up to something, or use the cheap adapter whilst playing, without having a bulkier unit, or a cable pop out of a weird spot where people usually put a wrist or finger.

Add to the size factor the idea that Sony wants to put an analog controller on the unit, and the unit starts getting bulkier than your average laptop.  Sure, they can use a thumb-pad that you simply press in different directions (like a d-pad for 360 degrees), and a few buttons, and they'll have the extra space, but will they be able to make it conformtable?

16x9 with a diagonal distance of 4.5"... well, that means the width (the 16) will be 3.93" at the bare minimum, and the height (the 9) will be at minimum 2.211" and, if it doesn't fold up, 4.422".  I'd imagine they're going to make it flip-top, though.

Hmm.  That means that, if they make it as small as possible, with an ultra-minimal border around the screen and no extra height or width, it'll just be a little bit larger than a credit card.  And if they keep the depth to a minimum, they could make it just a bit deeper than the GBA (if not the same depth, if they keep the media small and use adapters for the ports).

So they could do it; make a small unit that appeals to people on the go.  Will they?  I doubt it.  The walkman was cool in the 80's because it played tapes on batteries.  They've tried to reintroduce the walkman numerous times, and have failed each time because either the unit did too much so no one bought it for any of those purposes, or it was just too expensive for what it did.  They claimed MD was the new walkman, and named many products in their MD line appropriately.  They have the Discman, which, although popular, is upstaged by other brands and, most notably, now by MP3 players, and they don't have the tech yet to create those ultrasmall mp3 players like the iPod at th e same price point.  How they're going to make this PSP at a competitive price point without employing their huge proprietary batteries, or their weird memory sticks, or their proprietary media, is going to be interesting indeed.

But not all "all-in-one" products are useless, you know.  I have one of those multifunction printers/scanners (which then functions as a copier, since, you know, it's obvious), and it's fantastic.  If you take the price of a scanner with the same features, and add it to the price of a printer with the exact same features, you end up with 2 units that take up a lot of space and cost more separately, not to mention more ports used up on your computer.  This way, I have a printer without a curved top, and a scanner atop that flat top, which then also has a flat top.  The printer isn't useless space, the scanner isn't taking up desk space, and everyone's happy!  Similarly, I'd imagine many in the computer world would be pretty pissed if you had to buy a CD burner and CD reader separately  

The problem with the game console as multifunction unit, though, is the price point -- there aren't separate lines of consoles available from each company (yet), so you can't get an xbox lite that only has 2 ports, no ethernet port, a smaller harddrive, and no component video capabilities.  Similarly, you can't get one with a cd or dvd burner.  You get everything on the base unit, which sells at one price, and many consoles release add-ons.  But can you tout your console as the "one to buy for all your cd, dvd, surfing, email, gaming needs!" if you can't provide it all right out of the box?  People *really* felt burned when their Xbox didn't have DVD capabilities right out of the box, and you can tell that Microsoft has been sort of downplaying that feature as soon as Live came out.  I think MS realized the same thing that Nintendo knew all along -- it was too late for DVD, and people already own DVD players, so it wasn't worth the drastically increased ($30 per console!) cost.

[Raising_Hell]

 Hmm. I don't know. I feel that it will be very tricky to design this handheld in a way that will make it slim and usefull. Of course as you say the screen will probably be flip-top, that's the best solution but in order to make the thing slightly thinker than the GBA they will have to do alot of redesigning in the hardware, they will probably have to try to make the whole PS hardware be incorporated into one chip in order to save space and power. The other features are going to take up plenty of space also, and the controls I think are going to take up alot of space making the machine thicker. I didn't know they wanted to incorporate an analoge control. But still my greatest thought about this thing is what it will do to the 2d gaming scene, a scene that quite frankly I believe hasn't seen it's full potential not to the least. So really I guess I'm just concerned about the games. No doubt the console will be a good piece of hardware theat will be nice to have as a 'walkman', I personally am interested in some piece of hardware that works in this manner (heck I was interested when I heard that there will be episodes of cartoons out for GBA!) but I don't think such a machine made by Sony with the intentions that Sony has will do any good to the gaming scene.

As for casual gamers, I insist on my view. I understand and respect your point on the fact that most people have to find that special game that gets them hooked but, ultimately I feel that this is something your born with and if you are really meant to be a gamer you just need to 'awaken'. On the other hand the majority of casual gamers I have met and discussed games with, even if they were into playing around with games for years, didn't find any interest in them other than that of the average casual gamer, playing around with them. It's pretty obvious that a person isn't meant to love games when he's been tinkering around with them for ten years but that's as far as it gets. On the other hand people like me and you are different. I was hooked from the very first play of a game in the arcades (it was back in '83 and the game was Spy Hunter!).

Mentioning arcades I think that casual gamers going to consoles actually killed the arcades more than the actual home gaming scene has. Anyway, I respect anyone who likes games but I prefered the time when games were made by people who loved them and not by buisness men that see the profit potential behind the masses of mindless or rather less experienced casual gamers. I probably wouldn't mind if this didn't affect us but it does and I'm afraid the PSP has the potential to add to this.

[joshnickerson]

Raising_Hell, that was a very interesting read. It just reminded me that there is probably a huge chunk of Sony and Microsoft's userbase that are parents that just bought the system for the DVD player, and as a side game system for the kids to use if they get bored.

[DRJ]

Sony has a 51Million user base and look at all the great games that Nintendo has put out and they cant even dent Sony.

Now look at Gameboy with its 34 million user base. By the time the PSP is release there will probably be a 50 million user base for gameboy. Nomatter what Sony does they are not going to hurt nintendo.

Now if they make a great system that is a mp3 player and who knows what else, and it is cheap and gets great battery life (10 + hrs) then they will sell plenty, Ill probably buy one, but it wont hurt Nintendo. And what games will they have and how much will they be??? GCN has more AAA titles then XBox and PS1 and PS2 combined and that isnt enough to sell GCNs fast than Sony sells PS2s. Gameboy has over 1000 titles already so Sony will have to settle for second place. Not that they cant make alot of money in second place.

I for one think that competition is good. If there was no Playstation do you think we would have a Gamecube right now? or would we still have Nintendo 64. If there was a new system it would be cartridge based and not use disks. Competion makes everyone up the ante to compete for my dollar, and that is good.

[EggyToast]

Well, PS2 doesn't have a 50million installed userbase; that's how many units Sony has shipped out.  Not all of them have sold -- many companies have quite a backstock of units that haven't sold yet, mostly because there hasn't been a big selling PS2 game that's come out recently.

Regarding the PSP, I think the huge library of GB games is a huge bonus in its favor -- sure, the PSP might be more powerful, but the game selection at launch is going to be piddly.  Vs. the launch of the GBA, which had some new games but also all the old games, so people were much more inclined to pick it up right off the bat.  If it comes out as more of a multi-function unit, few will buy it until it's been out for a while.

[Raising_Hell]

 Hmm, the things that could be happening to the console market now and the things that could happen with the release of the PSP in a short while are all but predictable from what my experience tells me. But my instinct tells me that the outcome of the scenario will be bad. Bad for Nintendo? I can't say, and maybe it shouldn't matter much but it does. But what I do know is that the bad thing that will happen will mostly happen to the games.

Take the current situation for instance. The PSX brought a truckload of new people to the videogames industry. Now plenty of years later we see that the market has grown indeed and we have billions of dollars going into this market, but where is the result of all this money? Look at the games that are available and look at the money moving around then compare this state to what was going on in say, 1988-89. The money that was being put into the video games industry was significantly less, the technology was far lesser than that of today, yet we are all bitching about how more flops and medicore and uninnovative games are being released year after year. That my friends, is happening because the industry is being driven by people who are unapreciative of the fun a game may give, people who have no idea about what it means to be innovative, people who have no demand for their money. In the past just because gamers were people who played games because they loved them, their minds would imagine new things, write them to the magazines or the developers, they would be more demanding of each sequel or of every company and this all resulted in games being better as a whole. Noone would go spend his money on flop games unless the very few who got some lesser liked games really saw something in them.

It has been said plenty of times in these forums that it is Nintendo's fault that the GC has no support because their games are better than those of the 3rd parties and too close in their releases. 3rd paries having worse sales because Nintendo's games are better? Them make better games dammit! Or do they expect me to pay for a bad game. Nintendo made AAA titles in '92 then why did I buy Konami's Castlevania, Ninja Turtles and Contra games in the same year and all AFTER havning seen them first to judge them and not just getting them due to their great prequels? Because they were good.

DRJ mentioned the fact of software for the PS2 in comparison to the GC as grounds to suggest that the same might happen in the situation of the GBA vs the PSP, meaning that just because the GBA has more gamnes the PSP will fail or be in second place. This may be correct but, to suggest that the PS2 is where it is because of the plethora of quality titles os wrong. Take a look at what most people, the casual gamers are buying. They don't even have the sense of worth of their money and most of them are supposed to be adults! Look at where the quality games are and what is selling. Even on the PS2 itself games like ICO are being put aside while mega trash games are selling well. How many Final Fantasies can one take. It makes me think, what the heck is so final aout this fantasy when it's spawned a light year of sequels. This is all the result of marketing and crowd manipulation my friends. If not, why is the GC with so many quality tiltes for it taking the shaft even as a second cosole and the PS2 is so far up front with all its medicore games? Hell, even the Xbox that's almost identical to the PS2 and PC combo -which is pretty popular these days- is selling more than the Cube and I can't tell why, they both have the same games! This is all to say my friends, that the gaming industry has become dangerously over crowded for its own good. Companies that are sucking our blood without even giving us something new are popping out like mushrooms. So there really is no guarante as to what will happen to the GBA vs PSP but one thing, the company that is best at marketing a machine and manipulating the crowd will prevail. The millions of GBA's sold and the 1000+ games available mean nothing, because a casual gamer will not go looking for Fall of the Foot Clan on ebay because he will like to look at Lara Croft's 3D ding dongs, because society sais that's cooler.

I read this review somewhere on the new Indiana Jones game for Xbox...at some point the reviews read that the "next generation graphics and the next generation gameplay will make want to play the games many times more after you've finished it". I could let you guess what I did when I read "next generation gameplay". The review explained the control setup and what each button does and after having a good idea of how the game played, reading such a remark made wish I had the ignorant person who wrote it to point out a billion 15 or 20 year old games that had the SAME kind of gameplay as that. Nothing next-gen about that. If this is the situation with consoles, why would competition make the handheld market any better?

As you can see, this makes things more complicated. Every company is looking for more ways to draind the money from the pockets of an ever more poorer people, and we are getting poorer. Don't believe for a second that the dollar will rise and the US will fix the world, that even though the Euro is going up that there is a prospect for the global economy to come to, or that just because all the companies in the world are making more games, tin cans or a new kind of soup, that there are more people working and more money made. They know this more than you or me, that's why Sony and Microsoft will want more of the handheld market and that's why every electronics company I can think of is producing some hardware with connection capabilities. The GBA vs PSP will make things worse for our Electronic entertainment, cause then someone else will want to get into it, and someone else ect ect. I don't know, for now, I am enjoying the Master Quest, playing Link to the Past at the same time, trying out some old GB and NES games again, and hoping to get a job to gather some money in order to move out of this rat hole and go to England and try to enroll on a course for games design. But first, I gotta beat Metroid Prime...