Topic: Nintendo's Western Developer Inner Circle

[Kytim89]

I have been brainstorming a new idea about Nintendo when a new one popped into my head. Nintendo in the last decade or so has formened an inner circle of western developers as either second or third party developers. It is obvious in the gaming industry that western developers are making better games than their Japanese counter parts. Here is a list of said developers:
 
Retro Studios
Wayforward
N-Space
Silikon Knights
Next Level Games
Monster Games
 
Here are some prospective western developers that should/could join Nintendo's inner circle:
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software
 
If Nintendo were to make these companies second party developers then they could have an even bigger foot hold in western gaming sector. They would also have access to a large pool of talented developers that could make western-oriented games that would make Nintendo a whole lot of money. However, some of these developers are now defunct, but Nintendo could buy them out relatively cheap and put them to work under their own banner.
 
What are some potential developers that Nintendo could buy?

[Spak-Spang]

Well, if they are defunct...then Nintendo doesn't need to buy them.  If Nintendo just needs western talent, they don't need new studios...they could just hire more teams in studios they already have...if Nintendo was going to go the 2nd or 1st party direction that is...if Nintendo is just trying to make 3rd parties happy, that is harder, because Nintendo shouldn't try to money hat exclusives or even development of games...that is never rarely a idea.

[Kairon]

Well, NINTENDO thinks that getting into bidding wars to moneyhat exclusives is a rarely a good idea. I think there's always room for debate on whether they're right or not. This is the internet after all! ^_^'

That said, I've often wondered about some other developers with traditionally close histories with Nintendo hardware, like Shin'en, or 5th Cell. I'd be curious if Nintendo might start directly "outsourcing" some projects to them, like they often do with small Japanese developers (TOSE? Alpha Dream?) sometimes.

And personally, I've really enjoyed the story about High Voltage Software this generation. It's always invigorating to root for the underdog, so I've had daydreams of Nintendo doing something with that particular independent studio for awhile too.

That said, I wouldn't consider Nintendo as having made huge commitments in western development during this past gen. Partnerships with independent third parties, like Next Level Games and Monster Games, yes, but not commitments. I think their conservative nature factors against rapid expansionism, and that they're worried about employee churn in a second party, something which I guess is much more prevalent in the west versus Nintendo's more traditional, lifelong-job-esque Japanese offices.

[NWR_insanolord]

Nintendo is of the belief that purchasing studios doesn't make sense a lot of the time because you're just buying the name and the facility, and the people that work there can just leave. Personally, I like the Next Level/Monster approach, where they develop close relationships with third party studios that they could simply walk away from if they wanted to.

Really, what's the advantage of buying the studio if you can have them work for you, under your supervision, in a situation that's cheaper and allows more freedom?

[TJ Spyke]

Retro is 1st party (they are 100% owned by Nintendo). Radical Entertainment and Raven Software are owned by Activision, so they are out. Vigil Games and Volition are owned by THQ, so they are out too. I know they could still work with these studios (like they have with Namco Bandai and Sega), but it requires the support of their owners too.

[Adrock]

Why is WayForward Technologies on that list? A while back, I said it would be cool if they made a 2D Metroid game (an idea you have since adopted), but they've never actually worked with Nintendo before. I based that suggestion on how amazing and old-school Contra 4 was. They also made A Boy and His Blob but I had only played Contra 4 at that point.

As others have mentioned, Nintendo doesn't typically buy studios. The last company I remember Nintendo acquiring is Monolith Soft where they bought 80% from Namco Bandai initially, then the remaining 16% later on. It would be pointless for Nintendo to buy WayForward Technologies (even for a pittance) then say, Matt Bozon leaves to form his own company. What's Shantae worth at that point? Unless a company wants to be absorbed like Monolith Soft did, I like Nintendo's current strategy of making partnerships and supervising the process of the games they're making for Nintendo.

If Nintendo can swoop in and buy some IPs, that would be something to consider. We've talked about that a number of times. Sega is always a popular name that comes up and they recently restructured. I believe they closed a bunch of offices in Europe and Australia. The smaller Sega makes itself, the easier it would be to acquire some assets. Still, while the old-school gamer in me thinks it would be awesome,  it's really not something Nintendo even needs to do. They're getting other companies to make exclusives for them. If the Tekken team is making Smash Bros., they're not making Tekken for PS3/360. On top of that, Nintendo is strengthening those ties and rebuilding burnt bridges. That's a double win. They're not spending any more than they would have to make games they want made while freeing their own teams to other games.

[NWR_Neal]

Retro Studios
Wayforward
N-Space
Silikon Knights
Next Level Games
Monster Games

All the studios you hoped for are, as someone else pointed out, impossible since other companies own them.

As for this list, Silicon Knights hasn't worked with Nintendo in about eight years. WayForward has never worked with Nintendo. n-Space worked with Nintendo on one game in 2005.

The other three are on that inner circle list to varying degrees, with Retro being the only first-party studio. NLG and Monster Games should be bought up, I feel. Though maybe there's some reason why that hasn't happened yet.

[ejamer]

...
That said, I've often wondered about some other developers with traditionally close histories with Nintendo hardware, like Shin'en, or 5th Cell. I'd be curious if Nintendo might start directly "outsourcing" some projects to them, like they often do with small Japanese developers (TOSE? Alpha Dream?) sometimes.
...

I always find that Shin'en games are technically excellent but missing that "magic" on the gameplay side. Would love to see them collaborate directly with Nintendo on a title or two, and play whatever comes out of the partnership!

[BranDonk Kong]

I think Monster is being under-utilized right now. Excite Truck was absolutely fantastic...and what Nintendo is missing is an exclusive racing/simulation game (like Gran Turismo for SONY and Forza for Microsoft), and Monster could likely be the developer to fill that void.

[Kytim89]

I created this thread late at night. What I meant was that when Nintendo collaborates with western developers the game are usually very good. Yes, most of those developers are owned by other companies, but the way Activision treated Radical Entertainment and Raven Software I just think that they would do better under Nintendo's sphere of influence. Nnitendo could bolster relations with Activision if they were to buy Radical Entertainment and Raven Software. Actvision would have a couple of hundred million dollars in their bank account. Developers like Vigil and Volotion could be bought for cheap after THQ goes bankrupt. A move such as this would help solidify their standing in the western market. Here are a few reason why this is a good thing:
 
 

• Prevents competition from aquiring a talented workforce.
• Cuts down on development times because the staff of these companies know how to work an HD system.
• More western oriented IPs means bigger cash flows for Nintendo.
• Appeals to the hardcore base for the Wii U by adding credibility

 

[Kairon]

Yes, I definitely think that while Nintendo isn't keen on moneyhatting exclusives, they seem to be gunning for more collaboration, probably in the style of lego city undercover.

I wonder, though, whether NCL is driving all this, which would suggest an eastern developer preference, or whether NoA or NoE are given space to cultivate partnerships in their markets of similar significance.

[Kytim89]

Here is a list of western developers and games that I would like to see them make for the 3DS and Wii U.
 

• Retro Studios: Star Fox, Metroid (third person reboot), new IP.
  
• Wayforward: Handheld 2D Metroid 3DS game and a remake of Metroid 2.
  
• N-Space: Geist 2 and new Nintendo published IP for the 3DS.
  
• Silikon Knights: Eternal Darkness 2 and new Nintendo published IP for the Wii U.
  
• Next Level Games: Mario American Football, Wii U Sports, Punch-Out!
  
• Monster Games: F-Zero U, new realistic racing IP published by Nintendo to compete with Gran Turismo and Forza.
  

[Kairon]

If Silicon Knights doesn't exist anymore, do you think Next Level games might have a shot at doing an Eternal Darkness Sequel? Heavily overlooked by Nintendo of course...

[Kytim89]

If Silicon Knights doesn't exist anymore, do you think Next Level games might have a shot at doing an Eternal Darkness Sequel? Heavily overlooked by Nintendo of course...

I forgot all the financial turmoil that SK has been going through recently. Perhaps they should have stayed with Nintendo? I hope they survive long enough to make Eternal Darkness 2.

[Louieturkey]

If Silicon Knights doesn't exist anymore, do you think Next Level games might have a shot at doing an Eternal Darkness Sequel? Heavily overlooked by Nintendo of course...

I forgot all the financial turmoil that SK has been going through recently. Perhaps they should have stayed with Nintendo? I hope they survive long enough to make Eternal Darkness 2.

Nintendo would need to fund the entire thing.  SK most likely is going the way of 38 Studios, though in a different ending.

[Uncle_Optimus]

Yes, I definitely think that while Nintendo isn't keen on moneyhatting exclusives, they seem to be gunning for more collaboration, probably in the style of lego city undercover.

I wonder, though, whether NCL is driving all this, which would suggest an eastern developer preference, or whether NoA or NoE are given space to cultivate partnerships in their markets of similar significance.

I often wonder How much influence outside of Kyoto is Allowed to seep into Nintendo's decision making process.
Judging from their glacial pace in network initiatives and the dearth of new IP for increasingly dominant western markets I am going to guess that a conservative Japanese board still drives decision making, though local heads have a lot of influence in what titles will be brought over for their respective markets (which means I essentially blame Reggie for Americas lack of some ace Wii game haha). Sony on the other hand has obviously given a lot of more responsibility to their American offices and it shows in the buildout of their first party studios and even in their recent indie cultivation efforts.

I also share the opinion that Nintendo must look to expand its Western development fromt. Retro offers a successful blueprint on how to establish a developer with the same core values as the parent. It seems Retro themselves have been expanding steadily (with a particularly large recent talent search rush) but I would like to see some more initiative on Nintendo's part...the talent is here in the West and they have need of more content on their platforms.

Why not assume some risk when the payoff can be expanding your development reach and generating potentially lucrative new exclusive franchises? They can start with smaller teams and have them target their download platforms and perhaps iterate on any successes with larger, fleshed out follow up releases. Are they worried that expanding their development arms will further discourage third parties from competing on their platforms?

(btw guys, I do believe Radical is already on deaths door...Acti is looking to sell and has laid off most of the employees. Unless that 11th hr buyer comes, it will be the end of them unfortunately)

[shingi_70]

If nintendo wants to get serious about western development than they need to do what Sony did and what Microsoft has recently started doing and start building studios from the ground up as well as buying devs that it works with a lot and being favorable to ones it partners with.

Sony has gained a lot by having studios that are burns nd bred Sony. Microsoft are seems to have benefited from the creation of 343 as well.

A good starting point would be Revamping Nintendo NST. Acquiring studios such as Wayfoward and Shiren to co us on eshop games.like how Microsoft has twisted pixel.

[Pixelated Pixies]

After the fun Mario Strickers: Charged and the fantastic Punch Out!! (Wii) I'm convinced that Next-Level has the talent and sensibilities to be a second party Nintendo studio. Whether or not that happens is another matter.
 
Although I'm not familiar with what they've been working on lately, a contingent of employees from the defunct Factor 5 have created a studio called Touchfactor and reportedly intend to work on social games. If this is the same talent that gave us the Rogue Squardon games I'd like to see Nintendo pick them up and put them to work on something I might actually be interested in.
 
Wayforward of course makes a lot of sense, and fans of both companies (myself included) would I'm sure like to see Warforward work on Metroid.
 
However, rather than Nintendo picking up these studios what is more likely to happen is that Nintendo will continue to foster working relationships with these companies. Nintendo has already shown that it can play nice with external companies, and it is also pretty evident that external companies WANT to work with Nintendo. Rather than buying existing companies or investing to start up new ones, Nintendo can spend less capital by finding suitable partners as and when they're required.
 
Punch Out!! for instance was a game that is loved by it's fans but was never likely to have a big impact at retail. It was not worth Nintendo taking one of it's studios off a project to work on Punch Out!!, but clearly Nintendo wanted to do it for the fans and keep the series alive. So Nintendo gave it to a talented developer who they'd worked with in the past, and a studio which was small enough that a game of this scope made sense. Everyone wins. Nintendo ultimately saves money, gets a game out to their 'insatiable' fans, and Next-Level get to make a frickin' Punch Out!! game!
 
I'm really looking forward to Luigi's Mansion too. Next Level have of course made less than stellar games like Captain America, but when they're working with Nintendo and passionate about a project they're a pretty great developer.

[shingi_70]

Yeah nintendo is real big on having close relationships with devs. While that is good I'd say its better in the long run to invest and build new studios from the ground up. Look at Sony.

[Kytim89]

"I'm really looking forward to Luigi's Mansion too. Next Level have of course made less than stellar games like Captain America, but when they're working with Nintendo and passionate about a project they're a pretty great developer."
 
What better reason for Nintendo to sink its claws into Next Level Games? That studio is always at its best when it works for Nintendo. Therefore as long as they work for Nintendo then they wil laways be a viable company.

[Kytim89]

Yeah nintendo is real big on having close relationships with devs. While that is good I'd say its better in the long run to invest and build new studios from the ground up. Look at Sony.

You make a valid point, however, look at the financial turmoil that Sony has been going through recently. This would shy Nintendo away from building a large western powerbase due to loss of money. Keep in mind though that Sony has created some really good blockbuster games with western developers. Nnitendo needs to do the same if they want to remain competitive.
 
Nintendo is one of the few developers in the industry that is not really experienced with handling HD games and technology. By aquiring more western talent Nintendo could leap frog this problem and have a large arsenal of good western oriented games to supplement their own IPs.
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

These four developers have large amounts of talented workers within their company. The long term health of THQ is in question and the two developers from their sphere, Volition and Vigil, would go good with Nintendo. Nnitendo could also offer to buy a controlling stake in Radiacal and Raven Software to make more western games.

[Pixelated Pixies]

"I'm really looking forward to Luigi's Mansion too. Next Level have of course made less than stellar games like Captain America, but when they're working with Nintendo and passionate about a project they're a pretty great developer."
 
What better reason for Nintendo to sink its claws into Next Level Games? That studio is always at its best when it works for Nintendo. Therefore as long as they work for Nintendo then they wil laways be a viable company.

As a fan I don't necessarily disagree. From a business perspective, however, Nintendo probably don't need to buy the company. Nintendo seem content with the ad hoc partnership they have with Next Level currently, whereby they enlist them to develop games which Nintendo are not willing to divert time and resources to internally. The arrangement has worked well so far, so why would Nintendo need to 'own' them? I imagine the people working at Next Level would be very happy to work for Nintendo as a second-party studio, as would Nintendo fans, but I'm not sure it would bring any benefits to Nintendo.

[shingi_70]

Yeah nintendo is real big on having close relationships with devs. While that is good I'd say its better in the long run to invest and build new studios from the ground up. Look at Sony.

You make a valid point, however, look at the financial turmoil that Sony has been going through recently. This would shy Nintendo away from building a large western powerbase due to loss of money. Keep in mind though that Sony has created some really good blockbuster games with western developers. Nnitendo needs to do the same if they want to remain competitive.
 
Nintendo is one of the few developers in the industry that is not really experienced with handling HD games and technology. By aquiring more western talent Nintendo could leap frog this problem and have a large arsenal of good western oriented games to supplement their own IPs.
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

These four developers have large amounts of talented workers within their company. The long term health of THQ is in question and the two developers from their sphere, Volition and Vigil, would go good with Nintendo. Nnitendo could also offer to buy a controlling stake in Radiacal and Raven Software to make more western games.

But most of Sony's woes aren't due to the gaming side.

The problem with those 4 are those will be majorly sought out studios if THQ fails. Sony might be able to out bid someone like square (they have been working hard on their western development) but I doubt they could out bid WB interactive or Microsoft.

And I'd assume they would build the studios in places where they would get tax cuts.

Also doesn't Nintendo have a massive amount of money in place made for starting up new developers anyway.

The first thing I would do would be to purchase mistwalker (they can't be that much) and combine them with Monolith Soft and Brownie Brown. To me Brownie Brown seems to be an Under utlized studio and makes the formation of Monoliths 3DS team alittle redundent. This way the BB portion could work on 3DS RPGS, while you have two BiG RPGs from Mistwalker and the Xenoblade team.

I'd build a team from the ground up to work on Fatal Frame and maybe Eternal Darkness.
I think picking up the Reckoning IP and tech from the state of Rhode Island (lol) could be a smart move. Nintendo could probably get together most of that team back pretty quickly.
Buy Wayfoward and Shire. Or start new development houses for eshop content. I was honestly surprised to find how much work Intelligent Systems do.

[Kytim89]

Yeah nintendo is real big on having close relationships with devs. While that is good I'd say its better in the long run to invest and build new studios from the ground up. Look at Sony.

You make a valid point, however, look at the financial turmoil that Sony has been going through recently. This would shy Nintendo away from building a large western powerbase due to loss of money. Keep in mind though that Sony has created some really good blockbuster games with western developers. Nnitendo needs to do the same if they want to remain competitive.
 
Nintendo is one of the few developers in the industry that is not really experienced with handling HD games and technology. By aquiring more western talent Nintendo could leap frog this problem and have a large arsenal of good western oriented games to supplement their own IPs.
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

These four developers have large amounts of talented workers within their company. The long term health of THQ is in question and the two developers from their sphere, Volition and Vigil, would go good with Nintendo. Nnitendo could also offer to buy a controlling stake in Radiacal and Raven Software to make more western games.

But most of Sony's woes aren't due to the gaming side.

The problem with those 4 are those will be majorly sought out studios if THQ fails. Sony might be able to out bid someone like square (they have been working hard on their western development) but I doubt they could out bid WB interactive or Microsoft.

And I'd assume they would build the studios in places where they would get tax cuts.

Also doesn't Nintendo have a massive amount of money in place made for starting up new developers anyway.

The first thing I would do would be to purchase mistwalker (they can't be that much) and combine them with Monolith Soft and Brownie Brown. To me Brownie Brown seems to be an Under utlized studio and makes the formation of Monoliths 3DS team alittle redundent. This way the BB portion could work on 3DS RPGS, while you have two BiG RPGs from Mistwalker and the Xenoblade team.

I'd build a team from the ground up to work on Fatal Frame and maybe Eternal Darkness.
I think picking up the Reckoning IP and tech from the state of Rhode Island (lol) could be a smart move. Nintendo could probably get together most of that team back pretty quickly.
Buy Wayfoward and Shire. Or start new development houses for eshop content. I was honestly surprised to find how much work Intelligent Systems do.

Regardless, Nintendo is going to have spend some money to make it this time around with the Wii U. The best way to do this would be have a stronger western developer base to fall back upon. Retro Studios is the best in their arsenal, but they need more. They need more to offset development time and churn out more games. If Nintendo had more western developers under their belt they could get a whole lot more IPs, both new and old, out onto the market and help prevent droughts.

[Adrock]

The first thing I would do would be to purchase mistwalker (they can't be that much) and combine them with Monolith Soft and Brownie Brown. To me Brownie Brown seems to be an Under utlized studio and makes the formation of Monoliths 3DS team alittle redundent. This way the BB portion could work on 3DS RPGS, while you have two BiG RPGs from Mistwalker and the Xenoblade team.

In other words, re-create Squaresoft. Most of the key people from those companies are ex-Squaresoft guys.

I'm not sure it's worth acquiring Mistwalker unless Nintendo really wants full ownership of The Last Story. My understanding is that Mistwalker comes up with the story and the game design then hands off development to another studio and supervises thereafter. I kind of feel like Nintendo can live with partnering up with them to make games without acquiring them outright. Also, I believe Mistwalker was originally founded with funding from Microsoft. I don't know if MS owns part of Mistwalker. Maybe it doesn't matter if they do since Mistwalker's last 4 titles were on Nintendo hardware. Perhaps if MS does own part of Mistwalker, they would be willing to sell their stake since their plan to use Mistwalker to gain momentum in the Japanese market didn't exactly work out as well as they wanted.

In any case, I don't see the point in merging Monolith Soft and Brownie Brown. Restructuring them along with Mistwalker is kind of putting those guys back where they started which might not be what they want. They all left Squaresoft/Square Enix for a reason.

Regardless, Nintendo is going to have spend some money to make it this time around with the Wii U. The best way to do this would be have a stronger western developer base to fall back upon. Retro Studios is the best in their arsenal, but they need more. They need more to offset development time and churn out more games. If Nintendo had more western developers under their belt they could get a whole lot more IPs, both new and old, out onto the market and help prevent droughts.

Expansion is always a good thing, but it takes time to do it correctly. Buying up companies has a lot of risks, notably key personnel peacing out. Unless Nintendo is targeting IPs or patents, going shopping for studios where the employees enjoy their autonomy or don't want to be bought out is counterproductive. The main reason Nintendo owns Retro Studios entirely is because Jeff Spangenberg was an idiot so they bought out his stake in the company.

I don't know if simply having more teams necessarily leads to drought prevention. Nintendo was pretty consistent with releases until what, 2011. Eventually, all of their development teams had to move on to 3DS and Wii. I think better timing and management of resources would go a long way. Even if you add the Operation Rainfall titles into the lineup without the delays, NCL just didn't have much planned due to the migration to newer hardware. More studios could help so long as Nintendo times the releases better which is admittedly hard at times with Miyamoto "upending the tea table." The transition of 1st party teams on other consoles is less noticable because they have better 3rd party support. Nintendo is working on their relationship with 3rd parties which hopefully will pay off. That in addition to a better scheduling of releases should improve end of life droughts.