Topic: Mass Effect 3: Space Chat! (SPOILERS)

[TrueNerd]

So Mass Effect 3 came out today. I'm already 12 hours in, which is the most I've played a video game in one day since Wind Waker launch day. Which was nine years ago. Almost to the day.

Thus far, ME 3 has even better shooting than 2, more organically designed levels (meaning there's not cover oddly placed in areas that normally wouldn't have it so you know a battle is about to break out), great character and conflict pay offs from previous games, thrilling set pieces, and DAMN HIGH STAKES. It's also a more linear affair with a smaller cast of characters and less meaningful conversations with them. So it's a trade-off. Still, this is the piece of video game fiction I care the most about and ME 3 is just cementing this fact. There has already been one choice I had to make that I agonized over more than either of the endings to the previous games. Those moments are why Mass Effect is something special.

I'm not going to post spoilers yet as I'm sure I'm further along than a lot of people. But they are coming. **** has gotten real, and I'm probably only a third of the way through the game.

[broodwars]

About a month ago, I had a pre-order on the apparently incredibly rare 360 Collector's Edition for this game.  After playing the demo and being incredibly disappointed by it, I canceled it.  While I'm feeling a little bit of remorse for that after seeing the Pavlovian reaction the gaming press is giving this game, the reports I'm seeing of severe appearance issues importing players' Com. Sheps. and the disgusting way that DLC is being done for this game have balanced that out nicely.

I'll be getting this game at some point because I did really enjoy Mass Effect 2 (Mass Effect 1? Not so much), but I can easily wait a month or so until Bioware gets their **** together and the game drops in price a bit.  Seriously, Bioware didn't test importing Com. Sheps. in a series whose main hook is experiencing your story with your Com. Shep?!

[TrueNerd]

I had no problem importing mine, for what it's worth. But yeah, that's apparently a rather widespread issue. 

I didn't play the demo, but I can't imagine any of these games lend themselves well to demos.

[oohhboy]

Word has it they fucked over everybody with the ending.

[Caliban]

To some extent they have. I haven't played the game, but I already watched, and read all about the endings and the theories that are being thought of. I can see why people are pissed off. The best example I can use is the fourth ending in Eternal Darkness, but at the same time it isn't the best example because the fourth ending was part of whole product that was Eternal Darkness.

[Ceric]

I sort of want to read the ending but you know.  I think I'll just play through Mass Effect 2 and its DLC and get there on my own.

[Mannypon]

Definitely don't spoil yourself by reading or watching the endings.  Play through all 3 games and you'll be able to feel the emotional impact of the ending.  I can only speak for the ending I chose to follow but it was bitter sweet.  The choice you get in the end is VERY difficult and was THE hardest choice I've ever had to make in a game.  As soon as I got hit with the option to make a choice, I literally sat on my couch for about 5 minutes, staring at my TV, stressing over which choice I should make.  Even today, when I think back at it, its still very haunting. 
 
Not since Red Dead Redemption have I felt this deeply involved in a game.  To play this game without investing in the previous 2 is a huge disservice to what this game was trying to achieve.  I'll leave it at that till others have completed the game and see where they stand in all this. 
 
I for one have no complains on the choice I made.  I haven't seen the other 2 endings but I'd rather not even bother.  My ending is special to my experience with the game and seeing the other 2 will just spoil the illusion I've created.  There is only one ending to my story so I'd rather not dwell on the "what ifs".

[Shorty McNostril]

Anyone spent much time on the multiplayer?

[ShyGuy]

I saw the commercial. Master Chief needs to save the people of Earth!

[Caliban]

Definitely don't spoil yourself by reading or watching the endings.  Play through all 3 games and you'll be able to feel the emotional impact of the ending.  I can only speak for the ending I chose to follow but it was bitter sweet.  The choice you get in the end is VERY difficult and was THE hardest choice I've ever had to make in a game.  As soon as I got hit with the option to make a choice, I literally sat on my couch for about 5 minutes, staring at my TV, stressing over which choice I should make.  Even today, when I think back at it, its still very haunting. 
 
Not since Red Dead Redemption have I felt this deeply involved in a game.  To play this game without investing in the previous 2 is a huge disservice to what this game was trying to achieve.  I'll leave it at that till others have completed the game and see where they stand in all this. 
 
I for one have no complains on the choice I made.  I haven't seen the other 2 endings but I'd rather not even bother.  My ending is special to my experience with the game and seeing the other 2 will just spoil the illusion I've created.  There is only one ending to my story so I'd rather not dwell on the "what ifs".

May I ask what choice you made? So as to not spoil it, just tell me if you risked the left, middle, or right choice.

[bustin98]

I've had Mass Effect 2 for the past 2 years without playing it. I am now correcting that oversight, to the dismay of Zelda.

I tell ya, sometimes its tempting to be bad. I just opted to save the people at the refinery instead of chasing down the baddie before he escaped. I almost said screw them, lets kill an asshole. But I got lots of paragon points for doing it.

[Ceric]

I've had Mass Effect 2 for the past 2 years without playing it. I am now correcting that oversight, to the dismay of Zelda.

I tell ya, sometimes its tempting to be bad. I just opted to save the people at the refinery instead of chasing down the baddie before he escaped. I almost said screw them, lets kill an asshole. But I got lots of paragon points for doing it.

Join me in Arms Brother.  I'm in almost the exact same boat.  Though so far I'm enjoying ME2 a lot less then ME1.  I'm a little bitter about the new weapon and XP system.

[broodwars]

I've had Mass Effect 2 for the past 2 years without playing it. I am now correcting that oversight, to the dismay of Zelda.

I tell ya, sometimes its tempting to be bad. I just opted to save the people at the refinery instead of chasing down the baddie before he escaped. I almost said screw them, lets kill an asshole. But I got lots of paragon points for doing it.

Join me in Arms Brother.  I'm in almost the exact same boat.  Though so far I'm enjoying ME2 a lot less then ME1.  I'm a little bitter about the new weapon and XP system.

Personally, inventory management was the pain in the ass that made me dislike playing ME1 the most (alongside the Mako), so I liked the changes in it for ME2.  I think you'll like what they did with the weapon and XP system in ME3 better, since you seem to get XP more often beyond just completing missions.  Weapons can be augmented with mods once more, though you still don't have the inventory nightmare that ME1 had.

As for ME3, I recently downloaded and played through the PS3 1 hour trial for it.  After importing my ME2 PS3 Shepard, I found myself enjoying the full game a lot more than I did the demo. Having a Shepard with leveled-up stats will do that.  As soon as the price drops to $40 through Amazon's inevitable sale in the coming weeks, I'll pick up the 360 version.  I'm sure Sony will be delighted that they aided in that purchase decision.

I've already purchased the "From the Ashes" DLC, as I received 800 free MS points yesterday as part of a Valentine's Day promotion.  So as soon as I get the game, I'll be set on the DLC for a little bit.  **** the multiplayer, though. I'm not buying Xbox LIVE Gold and certainly not for that experience.

[Ceric]

I think the Inventory in ME1 could have been fix by simply:

1.  Not giving so much raw stuff.
2.  An easy way to filter the weapons down to what was Better.
3.  Items split by category in the shop for buying and selling.
4.  A view with Items lumped together in the General Equipment management.

Mako once I just started treating it as a Mount it was a lot better.

I liked how the XP was given in ME1.  It was more engaging.  I got XP when I did something.  Unlock a box here is some XP.  Kill someone Here is some XP.  Kill someone in a particular hard fashion, aka killing enemies meant for the Mako with your normal weapons, here is a bonus to XP.  I could decide to really search an area and ring the most XP out of it and make myself stronger.  In this game I'm probably going to start blitzing levels.  Finding out where just running by enemies and closing a door works because there isn't anything for dealing with them.

ME2 I lost my investment in Charm and Intimidation.  They are severally limiting how I want to play the game so far with how they divided the weapons.  From what I can tell its almost dictated which particular weapon is good on who.  I'm pretty upset with them limiting the Sniper Rifle.  In ME1 most of my kills were from the Sniper Rifle.  I'm specialized in Sniper Rifles and Pistols.  I rather pick people off before they notice me.  With so few shots and such a limit on the ammo its effectively a bad strategy.  Whats all this is pointing to is that I don't like how limiting in play this game is feeling to me so far.  Its not letting me express my own style like the other one.  I don't mind being directed from one place to the other as long as you let me do my own thing when there.

I feel the Renegade and Paragon points are even more arbitrarily given in this one.  I said hello to someone.  Renegade points.  The controls they changed around a bit on the PC and I don't fully agree with them.  Why do I have to Right Click the Mouse to make the Paragon choice happen instead of the Wheel???

The Import of Commander Shepherd is not up to what I'm used to in these sort of games that continue on.  I should have started with more then the generic stats.  They gave me a level and that's great, but instead they should have started me at lvl 1 with some stats boosted to reflect how I made my choices with the stats in the other game.  Maybe even another ability, like being able to use a Sniper Rifle with any of the specs (which I did unlock in ME1).

Are they going to use the same Cliche in ME3 to allow people to effectively start from scratch?

So far ME2 is not the game I liked in ME1.  Also why can't I take off my helmet in all armors or switch them on the fly... blah.

[broodwars]

Are they going to use the same Cliche in ME3 to allow people to effectively start from scratch?

No, they don't.  In my 1 hour ME3 trial on PS3, I imported my ME2 PS3 Commander Shepard, and he started at the level he was at in ME2 with his skills allocated the same way.  I think if you start ME3 without importing a character you do start at a more base level, but they don't use the same storytelling conceit to de-power you.

[Mannypon]

Definitely don't spoil yourself by reading or watching the endings.  Play through all 3 games and you'll be able to feel the emotional impact of the ending.  I can only speak for the ending I chose to follow but it was bitter sweet.  The choice you get in the end is VERY difficult and was THE hardest choice I've ever had to make in a game.  As soon as I got hit with the option to make a choice, I literally sat on my couch for about 5 minutes, staring at my TV, stressing over which choice I should make.  Even today, when I think back at it, its still very haunting. 
 
Not since Red Dead Redemption have I felt this deeply involved in a game.  To play this game without investing in the previous 2 is a huge disservice to what this game was trying to achieve.  I'll leave it at that till others have completed the game and see where they stand in all this. 
 
I for one have no complains on the choice I made.  I haven't seen the other 2 endings but I'd rather not even bother.  My ending is special to my experience with the game and seeing the other 2 will just spoil the illusion I've created.  There is only one ending to my story so I'd rather not dwell on the "what ifs".

May I ask what choice you made? So as to not spoil it, just tell me if you risked the left, middle, or right choice.

I chose the middle route and damn was it hard lol.  Did you finish the game already?

[Caliban]

I chose the middle route and damn was it hard lol.  Did you finish the game already?

LOL I wish I even had the game. I'm just going from what I've read, and watched like I mentioned in one of my previous posts. So, you chose the green path. After everything I've seen I think I would go with the right/red path, but I can see why you chose the middle.

[Mannypon]

Well like I said, its not an easy choice.  There are a lot of different motives to each choice but also a drawback.  If you play like I did, where you try and do right, its very hard to do.  It hurt that I couldn't end it the way I wanted it to.  I'm sure it could have with the other choices but they seemed selfish as I was putting my own desires above that of the galaxy.  either way, an amazing trilogy and ending in my eyes.

[TrueNerd]

I agree with everything Mannypon said about the ending. Seriously, every word. Even the bit about Red Dead. I came here to write about the ending, but it would have just been a rehash of that. However, I'm guessing Mannypon and I are in the minority. There's currently a campaign called "Retake Mass Effect" which is donating to Child's Play in an effort to channel their distaste for the ending into something positive and to hopefully convince Bioware to "fix" the ending. It's been going for just three days now and it already has raised over $50,000.

A couple thoughts. First of all, I think it is remarkable that people are spamming Metacritic, Amazon, etc with terrible reviews of this game based on narrative reasons alone. No one is claiming this game is bad in the traditional sense. It means people really care about the narrative of this series and if I'm Bioware, I'm considering ME3 a wild success.

Secondly, serious requests to change the ending to anything are insane. The end to Mass Effect 3 is a statement, and it was BioWare's to make. They made it. You can hate it, but you can't change it. It's not yours. A lot of people claim that they played an integral role in crafting the story of ME3, but when you get down to brass tacks, that's not true. Everyone experiences the same story beats in all three games. There's also far less narrative freedom than some people think. For example, it is not possible to keep your entire crew alive in the first game. Nor can you simply choose to not work for the Illusive Man in the second game. This has been BioWare's story the entire way through.

I could also go point by point on the complaints about the ending and why I think they're wrong/stupid, but I've written enough for now and that would require massive spoilers.

[Mannypon]

Preach on lol.  This is the first I heard of this petition but its insane to even think people would bring themselves down to this level (even though I have no issue with the donations they are making).  This whole situation reminds me of how movies are hated and loved.  The ending here and its backlash is similar to how people reacted to the movie No Country For Old Men.  The critics loved it but the masses hated it.  There seems to be the same thing going on here.  The critics and those who can appreciate an ending with some meaning, loved the endings but the masses hated it as they wanted your typical everyone is happy, I saved the world now lets go have babies ending.  That's not how things work in life, no matter your good intentions, you can only work with the hand that life gives you and make the best of it.  I think things got a little to "real" for people with this game and it interfered with their fantasies.

[oohhboy]

I think you are misunderstanding the issue. The problem with the ending is not one of tone. It's the railroaded nature of the ending(s) and how it basically throws 3 games worth of events out the window without closure. The end rendered the journey itself meaningless. That is the problem multiplied by carrying your character through each game creating a massive tonal whiplash on top of the ending.

It's similar to how stupid and arbitrary Fallout 3 ending was.

[TrueNerd]

Yeah, see, I don't agree with any of that. I felt like I got the perfect amount of closure. In fact, I felt like I had almost all the closure I needed before the final mission even started. All the interracial conflicts had been resolved, by me. The characters I cared about got a send off in some fashion, including one perfect send off that wrecked me with one line. It's true, you don't see all of the characters after the big climax, but do you need to? I don't. I'm perfectly fine imagining how things went down after the credits started rolling. If they gave a Return of the King-esque wrap up to everything, it would have been fine maybe if they handled it well, but, I definitely wouldn't still be thinking about the ending days later.

Again, I feel like a lot of the big choices from the first two games paid off long before the final mission started. I have compared notes with my roommate and there are no less than three big missions that played out completely differently because of various choices we made differently and/or characters that one of us had alive but the other did not. Also, the big choice you make at the end of Mass Effect 2 directly impacts the end of Mass Effect 3. I wasn't offered the third option on my ending because of the choice I made at the end of Mass Effect 2. (Even if it was offered to me, I would not have taken it.) I'll admit, it's not perfect. It would have been nice for the unique war assets that you acquired to have a narrative effect on the final mission rather than just a percentage of a bar you're trying to fill, especially since that bar can be very easily filled if you play a couple rounds of multiplayer.

On top of all of that, all of those previous choices inform that final choice, even if they don't all directly effect it. When I was presented with the options, I was frozen. No idea what to do. Upon reflecting on how I had made previous choices and how I had played the entire series, I realized there was only one choice I could make.  And even if the final scenes all play out similarly no matter what option you select, the implications of the three options are wildly different and have vastly different ramifications to them. You are saying EVERYTHING with that final choice. You are saying, "This is the manner I want to save the galaxy in and this is how we will carry on as a galactic civilization from here. This reflects who I am and who I've been." You are shaping the future of the galaxy with that choice and doing so in a very personal way. Again, you don't see these ramifications explicitly, but so what? You have a pretty good idea how things are gonna go.

So, yeah. The ending worked for me.

[Mannypon]

Hey, what was the choice in part 2 that opened up the third option in part 3?  I was under the impression that everyone had the 3 to choose from. 

But as you said, everything is fairly wrapped up by the end.  The future is an unknown but at least you have an idea how everyone will be starting off.  As for my ending, the resulting change affected everyone so I know what happened to everything.  I'd rather not say more to give it away though.  I found it to be, like I said before, bittersweet. Finally, a character that never got his dues outside of a few key characters showing him respect got a new start with a particular loved one.  What was once impossible for them is possible now and although my characters love arc did not go as planned, someone had got their chance.   It was fitting.

[Mannypon]

Your killing me TrueNerd lol, I've been searching the internet in hopes of finding out the relation to the choices in the Mass Effect 2 and the optional 3rd ending in Mass Effect 3.  I've had no luck.  Please fill me in on these details you have lol. 
 
On a side note though, I was thinking the other day, again, about the ending and how it'll affect future trilogies in the series (they have to be trilogies in my book lol).  The 3 endings in part 3 are so different that I begin to wonder when they start up a new story in the Mass Effect universe, which ending will they choose to form the backdrop of their story?  In deciding one, I think they'll damage the memories we all have of what happened as they will be acknowledging that my particular story was not real (if they so happen to not choose my ending as the backdrop).  The only way I can see them getting around this is if they were to tell a story that took place before this trilogy (like the recent Star Wars) or if they were to tell a whole different story in another part of the universe/galaxy or even dimension.

[TJ Spyke]

We all know some gamers started a petition to ask EA to change the end of the game (fat chance).

Some disgruntled gamer took it a step further and actually filled a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and Better Business Bureau over it. LOL. Obviously nothing will happen since you can't file a complaint for not liking the ending of something (otherwise we all could do that for various games, movies, TV shows, or books).

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/outrage-over-mass-effect-3-ending-reaches-ftc-173411384.html