Topic: Xseed Bringing The Last Story to North America

[BeautifulShy]

I just want to note that this is great news and should be celebrated. People are just being downers just because they can. It really doesn't matter much why we are getting this. I mean can't we just not read to much into things about the games and just play them?

[Adrock]

I just want to note that this is great news and should be celebrated. People are just being downers just because they can. It really doesn't matter much why we are getting this. I mean can't we just not read to much into things and just play them?

Uh... NO! What kind of bizarro world are you living in? Celebrate when good things happen... That's hippie nonsense.

[Luigi Dude]

I just want to note that this is great news and should be celebrated. People are just being downers just because they can. It really doesn't matter much why we are getting this. I mean can't we just not read to much into things and just play them?

This is the internet where people will complain about this news no matter what unless Reggie personally comes to their house with a free copy of The Last Story tonight, some high quality hookers and a truck full of weed.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I just want to note that this is great news and should be celebrated. People are just being downers just because they can. It really doesn't matter much why we are getting this. I mean can't we just not read to much into things and just play them?

Exactly. People wanted these games to come out, after showing there may be buyers through Operation Rainfall they allowed the games to come stateside. I thought that is what people wanted? Yet everyone is still complaining. People seem to have the need to complain no matter what, instead of "We want these games to come out" it has now evolved to "It has taken too long, let's whine some more". The fact is that NOA didn't do this out of malice, they were extremely uncertain if it would be profitable, and people have shown that it may in fact be. This news should be positive, not just because they are coming out here, but that campaigns for a product to be released is not always in vain.

Let's just hope people put their money where their mouth is, though I still have a feeling neither game is going to do well, I hope I am wrong.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't think there's anyone in this thread who isn't happy that this game is coming to North America. The thing is, though, that doesn't produce much discussion. The discussion is coming from an analysis of how it came to be, which Maxi is right to say doesn't really matter, but some people still find that interesting, and there are reasons to be less than thrilled with the circumstances that led us here.

[SuperTrainStationH]

Seriously, Reggie isn't some dictator who was keeping Xenoblade and The Last Story in a vault because he hates Nintendo fans, nor can he push a button and magically have them instantly localized, debuged, test played, manufactured, advertised, and shipped to store shelves.

...he absolutely can "push a button" and have that done.... ...He just didn't think these games could turn a massive profit in NA, so he decided that NoA would not release them.

You simply don't have a realistic conception of the role Reggie plays within Nintendo and how Nintendo operates.

If you want to cling to your baseless story that Reggie was actually trying to actively PREVENT the Rainfall games from coming to North America and that he was ordered by NCL to allow Xseed to localize The Last Story, feel free to do so.

The reality is, NCL has had a documented history of preventing and hindering NOA from bringing over fan favorite Japanese titles to the Americas, not the other way around.

[NWR_insanolord]

The reality is that Nintendo is a very secretive company, and we will most likely never know exactly how this went down, so singling out broodwars' comment as being baseless is pretty silly. Also, NCL hindering a North American release doesn't really make sense when you consider that NOE, which is more of a puppet of NCL than NOA is, released the games itself without third party help.

[SuperTrainStationH]

Yes, we don't know exactly how things went down behind the scenes within Nintendo.

Therefore, saying that Reggie was actively trying to prevent the Rainfall games from coming to North America without some sort of memo or credible primary source is just as baseless as if I were to say that Reggie was passionately crusading behind the scenes and was being knocked down at every corner by NCL.

The reality of course likely has nothing in resemblance between these two extremes.

On the other hand, we do have specific cases on file of NOA actually APPEALING to NCL to bring over games such as MOTHER and EarthBound and being shut down by NCL themselves.

[NWR_insanolord]

It being NCL's fault makes zero sense. The president of Nintendo isn't batshit crazy Yamauchi stepped down years ago, so why the hell would he have NOE translate it into English and release it themselves but take active steps to prevent NOA from releasing the same thing? The only thing that makes any sense is this being NOA's, and by extension Reggie's, call. As I've said, I doubt there was any malice in it, it was all business, but I don't think there's any explanation that makes sense that doesn't involve NOA being responsible for what happened.

[broodwars]

Therefore, saying that Reggie was actively trying to prevent the Rainfall games from coming to North America without some sort of memo or credible primary source is just as baseless as if I were to say that Reggie was passionately crusading behind the scenes and was being knocked down at every corner by NCL.

There's a difference between "actively trying to prevent the Rainfall games from coming to North America" (which is what you're saying I'm saying), and "not the least bit interested in the Rainfall games coming to North America", which is what I'm saying.  It's the difference between outright dislike and apathy, and I'm putting Reggie in the latter camp.  I just don't think Reggie ever cared about these games, as evidenced by Gamestop having to make a special deal w/ NoA to release Xenoblade in NA when it was already 99.9% localized and ready to go.  Also, NoA does not have a good history of selling the publishing rights to titles they own to other companies, which is why XSEED having The Last Story is so unusual.  RFN covered this a while back when they pointed out that the last Nintendo title to get picked up in NoA was a GBA title I can't remember the name of, and before that Cubivore on the N64.

I don't think NoA and Reggie "hate" the fans when it comes to these titles.  I just don't think they care about these titles since they won't be multi-million unit sellers, so I'm happy to see The Last Story in the hands of XSEED, a company that does look out for the smaller titles.

[Ian Sane]

If NOA wanted to release these games they would have done it themselves already.  The fact that it took this long for them to get announced and that both of them involve another party footing the bill strongly suggests that NOA was never going to publish these alone.

We get the games in the end and that's great.  But what happens next time Nintendo makes a good game but NOA is iffy about releasing it and no third party comes out of the woodwork to help foot the bill?  Do we just not get it then?  It's a good thing we got them but the way we got them is not encouraging for the future.  I'm still complaining because there is a potential issue here regarding future releases.

[MegaByte]

I think the Xseed side of this is likely the more interesting story. It's been a long time in coming. First they got in good with Namco Bandai with Retro Game Challenge, which enabled them to localize four Wii games and eventually Solatorobo. They used the NOE translation, which probably got them an in with Nintendo to do the same for The Last Story.

[Fatty The Hutt]

I've been meaning to make this pont for awhile, now seems as good a time as any.
 
Nintendo works like most other multi-nationals, in that each "division" is a separate company. What I think this means on a practical level is that, though NoA and NoE take direction from "head office" in Japan, they each have their own business targets for the year and, more importantly, their own budgets and financial accountings. Bear with me here, I'm going somewher with this.
 
During the past fiscal year, which ends shortly at the end of March, NoE spent some of its operating budget on localizing and releasing the Op. Rainfall games. NoE has to pay for that activity out of its own budget and account financially for whether or not that business direction was ultimately profitable. It is its own little (or not so little) company. Its financials roll up into the parent company's financials, but NoE also wants to be profitable independently, on its own balance sheets. Same with NoA.
 
So NoE expends funds and effort and comes out with 3 localizations. Those are NoE's assets. I'd be willing to bet that NoE would not (could not, by accounting rules) just hand over those assets to NoA free of charge. NoA has to pay for those assets (localizations) and probably at "fair market value". So Reggie et al. have to use their budget to obtain the localized versions of the games and, as others have pointed out, spend NoA money to press the discs, advertise, distribute, etc.
 
NoA assesses the likely North American market and decides the games have a risk of being not profitable, or maybe only marginally profitable. So, it shares the risk by cutting deals with Gamestop and XSEED. Probably a sound business decision and one based on expenditures solely from NoA's budget. Not NoE's nor head office.
 
This consideration of what NoA has to do to release the games has been missing from every commentary I have seen. Almost all criticism of NoA's decisions includes something along the lines of "NoE has already done the work, why doesn't NoA just release the damn games? NoA doesn't have to pay for the localisation." Well, I am pretty sure they do. And they make autonomous decisions about their market and their bottom line.
 
I also think NoA was particularly concerned to do two other things:
1. give Skyward Sword breathing room in the market; and
2. stretch out the few remaining Wii releases available throughout calendar year 2012.
 

[joshnickerson]

Fatty, that was a rational and well thought out argument.

What's it doing on the internet? 

[Fatty The Hutt]

Fatty, that was a rational and well thought out argument.

What's it doing on the internet? 

sorry, let me re-phrase
NineTendoo of UsandA are suckkZors looS3rs!!11!

[Ian Sane]

Does NOA actually have to pay NOE for the translation, though?  90% of NOA's games were developed in Japan by NCL.  Do they buy that code from NCL or are they just given it?  I would assume NCL just sends it to them.  Why would they charge them for it?

I'm not an accountant.  Is there some legal technicality I'm not understanding?

[NWR_insanolord]

The problem with that argument is that it's built on a faulty premise. He vastly overestimated the amount of independence NOA and especially NOE have. NOA and NOE are separate companies in name only; they are both very much under the control of NCL. Based on what we've seen, it seems like they, or at least NOA, have begun to get a bit more autonomy, but more often than not NCL is calling the shots. I guarantee you that NOE does not have the authority to refuse to let NOA use their translation.

[BeautifulShy]

I have to agree with josh if I could give you +1 again right now I would do so.Have to wait another hour. Its actually well thought out.

[Mop it up]

Nice, I wasn't expecting this today.

Now I have to go research this game and see what it's all about.

[Fatty The Hutt]

Well, I dunno how it works for Nintendo exactly and, yes, I am theorizing to a degree. But, think of NoE and NoA as little fiefdoms. They would never refuse anything NCL told them to do, yes. But as between themselves, they may not be happy, sharing siblings.
 
It all comes down to money,. The more sinister and cynical side of being in charge of NoE or NoA (Reggie) is that your compensation is based in part (possibly large part) on your fiscal performance. In other words, if NoA turns profit or meets specific business targets, Reggie gets paid more. Same with the NoE folks. So, I am willing to bet that the "cost" of localizing the games is treated as an arms-length transaction vis-vis NoE and NoA. As between the two subsidiaries and NCL, I am not sure it is the same. So, the cost of code from NCL may not be "charged" to NoA, but localizing is treated on the books as strictly a NoA (or NoE) cost that comes out of the subsidiary company's budget. Unless NoE and NoA agreed upfront to share that cost, I think NoE would "charge" NoA for use of the localization "assets".
 
edit, for stupid spelling mistakes

[Ymeegod]

"The weakness of the Dollar compared to the Pound and Euro is why they couldn't be as quick to commit as NOE could-- it was far riskier to take a major loss in the NA market."

But that's wouldn't matter since the US outsells the Europe market by 33%+.  Also your markup is wrong, just because the game sells more in europe doesn't mean the publisher gains more.  No, the retailers are taking a bigger cut, same with Japan/Aussie ect.  US retailers take a good chunk for themsleves but in other markets that markup is double+.

If you add both those facts then the US (NA) market is quite more profitable then the Europe market when it comes to RPGs most of the time.

------------------------------

Glad to see Last Story coming and have to agree with others about PT--that game wasn't reviewed all that well and it barely broke 20K which is reasonable why the wouldn't translate the game for the US. 

[MegaByte]

I don't know if you've seen the Euro lately, but it's not that.

Fatty makes a good point. Companies can use this to their advantage to avoid taxes and autonomy's beneficial for getting stuff done when it works, but there are also plenty of dysfunctional companies out there (e.g. Sony). In this case, there could be an issue of pride/awkwardness. Normally, Treehouse does (excellent) localization, and if they don't, they farm it out to a company like 8-4. It's a tricky position not wanting to spend to put the effort into your own localization, and yet have one already out there.

[Kytim89]

The big question remaining is whether Operation Rainfall has been sucessful and should cease opertions today with just these few titles or should we still support Pandora's Tower despite the likelyhood of it appearing in North America being a whole lot slimmer than the other games? Honestly, despite all the draw backs pertaining to Pandora's Tower, I still want that game in my collection, but without the trouble of importing it.

[broodwars]

The big question remaining is whether Operation Rainfall has been sucessful and should cease opertions today with just these few titles or should we still support Pandora's Tower despite the likelyhood of it appearing in North America being a whole lot slimmer than the other games? Honestly, despite all the draw backs pertaining to Pandora's Tower, I still want that game in my collection, but without the trouble of importing it.

Pandora's Tower is a lost cause unless The Last Story sells well, which might coax XSEED to pick up the license for NA.  There was no way Pandora's Tower would ever see the light of day in NA if NoA was the only company who could publish it, but now that NoA's opened the floodgates on 3rd party involvement it's certainly possible.

I think the folks behind Operation Rainfall would make better use of their time if they spent it trying to encourage NoA or other interested parties in picking up the Fatal Frame 2 remake that just got announced for EU, though.

[Bman87301]

I don't know if you've seen the Euro lately, but it's not that.

Just to clarify, I was referring to the Euro's value a year and a half ago (when NOE made the decision to release the game). Even despite its current troubles though, the Euro is still higher than the US Dollar anyway. And there's still the British Pound on top of that. Trust me, the currency exchange is definitely the reason.