Topic: What's with all the RE-releases?

[Ceric]

...
I have much better things to do.
...

I sort of doubt that considering you keep saying that.

Here's some Million Seller. With Numbers from the company itself.
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html

Number 21.  Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition
Number 20 is Monster Hunter Tri
Number 38 is Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles

[NWR_Neal]

I said it in one post...

Also, conclusion: Capcom should make more games in successful franchises for Nintendo systems. Which they are doing.

[Ceric]

I said it in one post...

Also, conclusion: Capcom should make more games in successful franchises for Nintendo systems. Which they are doing.

*Shrug*
It was the easiest undisputed numbers I could find.  I don't know if that is the real take away.
The PS2 Version of Resident Evil 4 is number 14.

[Chocobo_Rider]

To be fair, I told you to find the sales figures for the game. I could do it, but you also said my point was invalid, and I have much better things to do.

So do you agree or disagree that licensed movie games are an accurate representation of a traditional gaming audience?

According to vgchartz, Thor sold better on Wii that PS3 or 360.  Cap.America sold better on PS3 and 360 than Wii.

All good? If you have better numbers, as always, I'm all ears.

 

Nintendo games get taken out of the discussion because we're talking about third party games going from Wii to 360/PS3 and vice versa. Nintendo games ain't getting ported to 360/PS3 anytime soon.

 Close.  We're actually talking about whether or not there is the audience on the Wii to justify equal effort on multi-platform releases.  Thus, to me, it has never made sense to take Nintendo games out of that equation.  Especially when they seem to put in the most effort.

But seriously, what Nontendo """"core""""" titles have sold a million on Wii?

Monster Hunter Tri, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Epic Mickey, Call of Duty 3, Resident Evil 4, Sonic Unleashed, Call of Duty WAW, Star Wars TFU, Shaun White Snowboarding, RE Umbrealla Chronicles, GoldenEye 007, TigerWoods '09, Call of Duty MWReflex, HotD 2+3 Return, Red Steel, Need for Speed Carbon, Pro Evo Soccer '08, Boom Blox, Call of Duty Black Ops, FIFA Soccer '08, and TigerWoods '10.

Notice how with the exceptions of RE Umbrella Chronicles and CoD MW Reflex this list supports my quality+mainstream formula exactly.

resident evil FOUR, monster hunter THREE, hotd TWO + THREE. actual numbered flagship entries.
Epic Mickey, GoldenEye, Boom Blox. actual flagship IPs.

Not "Epic Mickey: The Side-Story Party Game Collection."

Give us Dead Space, not Extraction.  Give us RE5 not Darkside Chronicles (still a great game).  HotD4 not Overkill. And the sales will follow.

Once again, I could look this up, but I'm not going to.

So, you're here for discussion, but not fact-based discussion?

 

EDIT: And get your fucking facts right. NBA Jam wasn't "neutered" on the Wii. It was made for the Wii. For ****'s sake, dude.

 Sorry, my eff-bombing friend.  You're the one who doesn't know their facts.

"EA revealed today that NBA Jam will hit the PS3 and Xbox 360 on November 17th. Unlike the Wii version, the PS3/360 editions will feature online multiplayer.

 Upon launch, gamers will be able to play Classic 2-on-2 matches online with results being tracked by leaderboards. In December, a title update will add arcade modes like Backboard Smash, Domination Free-for-All, Elimination, and 21. An Online Progression feature will allow players to level up via challenges and in doing so unlock rewards."
~cinemablend.com

All that dev team did was love the Wii and then everyone got burned that Corporate EA told them to port it to 360/PS3 because their main NBA title was terrible.

 I know why the game was moved to PS3/60.  But why does the delay of their terrible game mean the Wii version can't have online multiplayer or the additional game modes?
 
 

It's not their fault the game sold better on 360/PS3.

And I don't need to cite ****, because if it sold better on Wii, the new game would be on Wii.

Well, according to VGChartz NBA Jam sold better on the Wii [link].  Just imagine if it had those extra features! I know that's why I didn't buy it.

So I guess you should cite something or stop blowin' hot air.

[NWR_Neal]

NBA Jam didn't have online because it couldn't run at 60 fps or something like that on the Wii. The 360/PS3 release was an afterthought (like I detailed), and because of the solid online infrastructures, was easy to implement online.
I'm sorry you just read press releases and make assumptions. Read actual interviews (maybe even some of the ones we did...) with the developers. They tried to put online in, but they couldn't get it working well enough. If you want to hate on them for failing, then hate on Nintendo for Brawl's online.
EDIT: (from an interview in August 2010 at Nintendo Okie) Director Trey Smith: "We’re not there yet unfortunately, but we haven’t given up hope yet. We’ve said since day 1 that if we were going to do Online on the Wii that we had to do it right. We haven’t been able to maintain a rock solid 60fps online yet and we’re not going to put it out there unless we do."
I can't find a quote from him confirming its absence, but it's not like they didn't try. They just made the design decision to go for 60fps or bust. You might disagree with it, but I don't.


Unfortunately, vgchartz's dodgy sales number are all we have to go on. I don't think they're totally wrong, but they're not 100% accurate. The movie game comparison is one of the only ones we have to go on of your different-team-working-on-original-Wii-version theory. If there are other ones, throw them out there. It looks like it was a split, which makes a little bit of sense since the Thor Wii and the CA 360/PS3 were supposedly the best of the bunch.

I seriously question a lot of those million sellers as well. But even still, why do Umbrella Chronicles and MW Reflex not count? At first I thought it was because MW Reflex was a port, but are you saying the games are bad? I can't vouch for UC, but MW Reflex was in the same league as other Wii CoD games.

And why would you ever want an old arcade port (HotD 4) over a brand new awesome game (Overkill)?

I'll offer a mea culpa on the NBA Jam sales bit. I guess it boiled down to XBLA/PSN being easier to do than a retail release, and I doubt it could fit in the WiiWare size limit without substantial work.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Neal-

1. My friend, I remember reading the frames per second rationale.  That's garbage.  I'm sorry if your keen eye would prefer playing against the CPU indefinitely instead of reeling in horror at *gasp* 30fps!! But, for a SPORTS game what do you think more people will see value in ... 60fps or online multiplayer? Gimme a break.

Saying it's ok because "they tried" is like .... let's pretend I'm selling you a car.  Oh, I couldn't figure out how to build a shiny body around that engine so I removed the engine and gave you the shiny body! You can still sit in the car though! It's so shiny!  ... Still interested? Still don't think I'm at fault?

2. HotD4 came out in 2005 and is a great game.  You call it an "old arcade port" but it's not exactly Galaga.  Fans of the franchise (like myself) love the games, the setting, and the gameplay.  HotD:O was also a great game, but it was not a great HotD game.  It took the franchise in a whole new direction and that direction wasn't much more than vulgarity and b-movie effects (literally, not referentially like the flagship titles).

This is why 2+3 Return sold better than Overkill.

Also, Overkill came out 4 years later.  Not even a full generation advancement in console tech.

3. I liked Umbrella Chronicles.  But that's just what it was... a cliff's notes on the franchise.  Not a flagship installment.  So, that's going to severely limit your audience.  Plus it was a rail-shooter a time when Wii owners were started to get enough of them.

I never played MW Reflex but I heard it was a far cry from the original.  Feel free to correct me on that.  If it was true enough to the original then it would explain the sales and leave only one exception to my rule on that list =)

4. I appreciate the MC on the NBA Jam sales.  Takes a big man to admit that sort of thing on the interwebs.  And that's really what broke my heart about that whole situation.  They got Wii owners whipped into a frenzy, psyched about that game, and then, before it even comes out ... our princess was being moved to another castle?  The Wii was the right audience for that game, but they did not stick the landing.

~~~

So anyway, as I've said before...  Still waiting for anyone to show me there are actual numbers behind the pessimistic beliefs they believe so wholeheartedly!

[NWR_insanolord]

Modern Warfare Reflex is excellent. Outside the graphics and lack of voice chat, it's essentially the same game as the HD version. Black Ops is apparently even better.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Modern Warfare Reflex is excellent. Outside the graphics and lack of voice chat, it's essentially the same game as the HD version. Black Ops is apparently even better.

Well then that's great! That is EXACTLY what I'm talkin' 'bout.

[broodwars]

Modern Warfare Reflex is excellent. Outside the graphics and lack of voice chat, it's essentially the same game as the HD version. Black Ops is apparently even better.

Well then that's great! That is EXACTLY what I'm talkin' 'bout.

And that's Activision dumping money into one of the (if not the) best-selling video game franchises of all time.  They can afford to put that much money and manpower into porting those titles to Wii, and yet those games still sold better on the HD consoles by a considerable margin.

I think you give teams that work on Wii titles (particularly ports) too little credit.  No one sets out to make a bad game, and I can speak from personal experience that the teams I've seen working on Wii versions of HD games did the best they could to deliver the best Wii experience possible.  Blame Nintendo for the lackluster hardware and pitifully lacking online infrastructure that gets in the way, and publishers for not giving the developers the necessary resources early in the Wii's lifespan when it still could have been saved for 3rd party games.

[NWR_Neal]

I believe the NBA Jam fps issue comes from the creator of the series demanding it run in 60fps because the game doesn't feel right in 30fps. You can hate them for it. I won't. Agree to disagree.

Overkill is legitimately one of my favorite games in the past five years. Once again, agree to disagree.

I've yet to see the numbers behind your views as well. Showing million sellers is one thing, but that doesn't change the fact that companies are running away scared from the Wii. If it really was that easy, it'd be happening.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@broodwars

No one said the Wii had to outsell the other consoles to be worthwhile.  They put in effort and they got great results.  That's the bottom line.

I have played over a thousand hours on the Wii's "pitifully lacking infrastructure."  I'm pretty sure it could handle 2-on-2 basketball. 

@Neal

I am very cool with agreeing to disagree.  But why not answer the question of what you think buyers will want more: online multiplayer in a sports game or 60fps?

Also, don't forget that my least favorite HotD game is still one of my top games too. 
I just wish they felt they could have given us a game that got attention for its quality instead of its (now broken) record for eff-bombs.  Just sayin'.  But really, I do respect and enjoy how much you like the game!  I'm never gonna tell you what that G stands for.

Also, my numbers come from VGChartz and GoNintendo's reposts of articles about million sellers.

~~~

No one has been able to give me any other numbers, without that, their opinions are just based on myths that keep bouncing around a media that would rather focus on their "cool" twin consoles instead of going outside their comfort zone to embrace a console an expanded audience also embraced.

Simple as that.

GameTrailers had a whole Bonus Round on the future of the industry but did not dedicate a segment to the Wii U.  Why is that? Does it not have HD graphics? Does Nintendo not sell enough hardware/software?

Or are they just insecure about their cred? Would they rather just live in their "elite" world?

And these are the people we let tell us Nintendo platforms don't have a hardcore audience? hmm.

Everything I've seen has proven one simple rule: quality + mainstream = success.  That rule applies to all consoles.  Wii owners should not have had to buy crappy spin-offs and side-stories to "earn" fair treatment.

....

So, anyone got numbers for me or are we done here?

[Chozo Ghost]

This is adding insult to injury. Not only did 3rd parties treat the Wii as nothing more than a toilet this whole generation and did nothing but **** on it, but now what little 3rd party support the Wii did have is being taken away and given to the PS3. This is outrageous.

No surprise though, because look at what Crapcom did with RE4 which was supposed to be a GC exclusive. The last year of the Wii's life is looking more and more like a repeat of the GC's last year of life. Hopefully 5-6 years from now history won't have repeated itself a third time.

[NWR_Neal]

Judging from Brawl, I'd say 60fps. Once again, you're not going to agree with me. That's a statistical impossibility (there's a stat!). NBA Jam was disappointing for me for other reasons that had nothing to do with online multiplayer.

This whole "Nintendo's system has terrible last year!" thing can't be a coincidence. It's happen with each of their past three home consoles. We might not be able to pinpoint the reason, but there's an issue we're not quite seeing that has nothing to do with the industry men keeping Nintendo down.

[Chozo Ghost]

I hope it goes both ways. If alot of formerly Wii exclusive stuff gets ported to the PS360, then I hope a lot of exclusively PS360 stuff gets moved over to the Wii U. That would be fair, right?

And Broodwars, I don't see you complaining about Umbrella Chronicles coming to PS3. You seemed to have a problem with Mass Effect and other games getting ported to the Wii U, so why aren't you complaining about this? I call that hypocrisy. By your own argument people should have already played this game on the Wii years ago when it came out, and if they didn't then tough luck, right? Or could it be you have a bias and don't have a problem with Nintendo system games coming to PS360 just so long as the reverse doesn't happen.

[NWR_Neal]

I'd rather see new games on Wii U, but I'm in favor of more people playing Arkham City and other excellent games.

[Chozo Ghost]

The Wii U should also get Arkham Asylum. Maybe it could be included with Arkham City as part of a bundle. Yes, I know Arkham City is a old game, but so is Umbrella Chronicles, so...

[broodwars]

And Broodwars, I don't see you complaining about Umbrella Chronicles coming to PS3. You seemed to have a problem with Mass Effect and other games getting ported to the Wii U, so why aren't you complaining about this? I call that hypocrisy.  By your own argument people should have already played this game on the Wii years ago when it came out, and if they didn't then tough luck, right? Or could it be you have a bias and don't have a problem with Nintendo system games coming to PS360 just so long as the reverse doesn't happen.

And I call that "Apples and Oranges" and a pathetic last-ditch effort to find something to insult me with, Chozo.  Seriously, you can do better than that.

I was against Mass Effect 3 coming to the Wii U because Mass Effects 1 and 2 weren't on the platform, and it's the conclusion to the epic story told over those two titles.  You jump into the 3rd game now and you're missing the entire point of the franchise, that being (as I've said) making choices over the course of a massive 3-game story arc and seeing how your choices play out over multiple games.  If Mass Effect could be ported to the Wii U (it can't, but if it could) along with Mass Effects 2 and 3, I'd be all for that.  But it can't, and certain Wii owners need to move on from the endless whining about not getting those games.

Umbrella and Darkside Chronicles, on the other hand, are self-contained stories.  Being compilation games covering stories that are, by the way, already playable in their original forms on at least the PS3, players new to the franchise can jump in with no problem.  If you like what you see in the Chronicles games and are interested in learning more about their original stories, you can always check out the original Resident Evil games via the Playstation 1 Classics and PSN/XBLA.

My other concern was that the Wii U shouldn't be hung up on making sure it has every single game Wii-only owners are whining about having missed over the past 6 years.  It was alright for a few catalog titles to cross over, but that should be kept to a minimum to allow for new Wii U games instead of companies just focusing on ports.  It's a new console, and the focus should be on new software, new ideas.  For the PS3 and 360, on the other hand, these games are afterthoughts, titles that will co-exist alongside the frequent wave of new titles every month.  It's not the same.

C'mon, Chozo, is that the best you've got?  That was pathetically easy to shoot down.

And by the way, all this whining about the HD consoles getting Wii titles now and how "WAAAH!  UNFAIR!" it is?  Grow.  Up.  The HD consoles have been sharing games for years, and Wii-only owners have had years of exclusivity on these titles that is incredibly rare for 3rd party games on the HD consoles.  I don't recall seeing this much whining from HD console-only owners when these games were originally announced as exclusive to Wii.

[Chozo Ghost]

to insult me with,

No, it's not. I'm not insulting you. I'm just calling you on what I perceive as an inconsistency in that you are unsympathetic to Nintendo fans not getting these games and you don't want them ever to get them, but on the other hand you are silent when Nintendo exclusive games come to other systems. If I wanted to insult you, I would call you names and use actual insults, but I didn't do that and I have no intention of doing that. I just don't see any consistency in your position except that its hypocritical. I only insult people I dislike, and I don't dislike you.

As for the rest of your post, I didn't even read that before I hit the reply button because I had to address that.

And by the way, all this whining about the HD consoles getting Wii titles now and how "WAAAH!  UNFAIR!" it is?  Grow.  Up.  The HD consoles have been sharing games for years, and Wii-only owners have had years of exclusivity on these titles that is incredibly rare for 3rd party games on the HD consoles.  I don't recall seeing this much whining from HD console-only owners when these games were originally announced as exclusive to Wii.

Come on, don't be like that. I didn't insult you so don't take it that way.

[broodwars]

Come on, don't be like that. I didn't insult you so don't take it that way.

That was actually a more general comment at some other comment-ers like NinSage than one directed specifically at you.  I actually already said that to NinSage earlier in this topic, but was just repeating it since the arguing about "fairness" is STILL going on.  Seriously, I like you guys, and you're a fun bunch of folks to chat with.  But enough is ENOUGH on all this complaining about these two games coming to PS3 that so many Wii owners complained they were getting in the first place when they were announced (because they weren't Resident Evil 5).

[Chozo Ghost]

You're right, enough is enough. And it was a good thing those games remained Wii exclusive for as long as they did. Its not as bad as RE4, which was announced for PS2 BEFORE the GC version was even released. Not that it could have saved the GC by any measure, but it might have given the GC a shot of catching up to the original Xbox for 2nd place, because from what I understand it was a pretty close battle.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Judging from Brawl, I'd say 60fps.

A) What does that have to do with Brawl?
B) Let the record show Neal believes more people would rather have no online multiplayer in a sports game than include it and have it run at less than 60fps.  I feel a forum poll coming on.

And by the way, all this whining about the HD consoles getting Wii titles now and how "WAAAH!  UNFAIR!" it is?  Grow.  Up.  The HD consoles have been sharing games for years, and Wii-only owners have had years of exclusivity on these titles that is incredibly rare for 3rd party games on the HD consoles.  I don't recall seeing this much whining from HD console-only owners when these games were originally announced as exclusive to Wii.

 You have some sound concepts here but you are missing crucial points.
 
 1. Wii owners aren't pissed because other people get to play former exclusives.  Thus, the idea that the "HD twins" live up to their nickname is irrelevant.  The problem is that, as has been discussed, it never goes both ways.
 
 2. Among console owners who do not own a Wii, there is a tendency to not even be interested in a game that isn't in HD.  So, it's very easy for them to say "who cares? that looks like a PS1 game" until it gets an HD makeover (even if it's not a very demanding one!) and then suddenly the games become interesting.
 
 Also, let's face it, Wii owners are open to a range of cutesy, colorful, family-friendly games that """hardcore""" gamers might not necessarily want to play.  Epic Mickey is an easy example, which is why I think there have been (possibly fatal) delays in bringing that game to an HD consoles.
 
 But let's look at some of the games that have made the leap: No More Heroes (blood, sex, vulgarity), Dead Space Extraction (dismemberment, shootin'), HotDO (blood, sex, VULGARITY), RE Chronicles (blood, shootin'), and GoldenEye007 (shootin').
 
Exceptions: unplanned NBA Jam (sports game), deBlob 2 (cutesy, colorful).

Oddly enough, the two exceptions are the only ones that did not have a significant period of exclusively.  Though I don't think that means anything, do any of you?

[broodwars]

Also, let's face it, Wii owners are open to a range of cutesy, colorful, family-friendly games that """hardcore""" gamers might not necessarily want to play.  Epic Mickey is an easy example, which is why I think there have been (possibly fatal) delays in bringing that game to an HD consoles.
 
 But let's look at some of the games that have made the leap: No More Heroes (blood, sex, vulgarity), Dead Space Extraction (dismemberment, shootin'), HotDO (blood, sex, VULGARITY), RE Chronicles (blood, shootin'), and GoldenEye007 (shootin').
 
Exceptions: unplanned NBA Jam (sports game), deBlob 2 (cutesy, colorful).

Oddly enough, the two exceptions are the only ones that did not have a significant period of exclusively.  Though I don't think that means anything, do any of you?

I think you're drawing perhaps the wrong conclusion here.  With the exception of No More Heroes, the violent titles you named are ones that rely heavily on pointer control on Wii, which from my experience is just about the only thing that works somewhat like it should on Move.  Sony wants developers to put out Move titles, so they put out former Wii titles that work best on that thing.  It's probably the only reason the rail shooters were even ported, because it's not like Child of Eden has been setting the sales charts on fire on the HD consoles (despite being a very good game).

Incidentally, you also forgot Tales of Graces F under your "exceptions" section, which is definitely bright and colorful and coming to the PS3 in NA next year.

But let's not turn this into a "Bleh, gamers on the HD consoles only care about blood and guts, because it's not like these games were all originally released on the Wii to appeal to the same kind of gamers!" argument.  There are more technicolor games on the HD consoles (mostly JRPGs) than I can even list off in a space this small.  Hell, one of Sony's biggest games on the PSN is Flower, and that's about as far removed from a military FPS as you can get.  Two of the 360's biggest releases this fall are a Sesame Street game and a game where you recreate a Wild West Puppet Show in The Gunstringer.  There's a variety of different art styles and genres on all the consoles, and what sells in the marketplace doesn't change from console to console.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@broodwars

Looks like, yet again, we'll have to agree to disagree (mostly).

I could see Move support being a key factor.  And I did forget about Tales of Graces F which is indeed colorful.  (I have a very hard time keeping up with the many Tales of this and Tales of that that come out on every conceivable platform every few months!!).  Don't get me wrong, the series looks great and like something I would really enjoy, but (speaking to your point about ME3 and it's story) I always like to get the big picture from my games, and I just can't keep track of all those Tales games so... I pay no attention!

However, I disagree in that, looking over what is successful on PS3/60 versus Wii, though there are exceptions, the spectrum on Wii is quantitatively broader.  I can quote you numbers from VGChartz, but, we all know that's not allowed.  (Even though whatever "inaccuracies" should be relatively even across all platforms!) So, if you (plural) don't want my numbers, and you (plural) don't have any numbers, then I guess the discussion has reached its inevitable conclusion!

Remember, there might not be much point in you and I having this discussion as history has proved we are just two different peas in two very different pods, but it can be meaningful for others.  ... who quickly get scared off when it just becomes a 2-4 person debate  :

[Mop it up]

I don't buy the excuse given for NBA Jam. Mario Strikers Charged has a lot of stuff happening on screen, probably more than NBA Jam, yet that game still runs at 60FPS in the online multiplayer mode. In the case of NBA Jam, I'm not going to speculate what the real reason is, but I can say that it wasn't because the Wii couldn't handle it.

This is why 2+3 Return sold better than Overkill.

To be fair, 2+3 Returns was $30 and Overkill was $50. I think the $50 tag is the main reason why Overkill didn't sell as well as the arcade port, because people saw it as a bad value.

[Chocobo_Rider]

I don't buy the excuse given for NBA Jam. Mario Strikers Charged has a lot of stuff happening on screen, probably more than NBA Jam, yet that game still runs at 60FPS in the online multiplayer mode. In the case of NBA Jam, I'm not going to speculate what the real reason is, but I can say that it wasn't because the Wii couldn't handle it.

This is why 2+3 Return sold better than Overkill.

To be fair, 2+3 Returns was $30 and Overkill was $50. I think the $50 tag is the main reason why Overkill didn't sell as well as the arcade port, because people saw it as a bad value.

Good call on MSCharged.

Regarding HotD, that's a valid point, I just think it's washed out considering the $20 difference could be justified by the upgrade in tech (visuals, etc.) and then you're left comparing the content for what it is.

But, it is very late and I am very tired so.... maybe I don't know what I'm talking about? 

Anyway, I think I've said all I need to on this topic.  Again, anyone wants to post numbers and I'll come rushing back.  Otherwise, peace out Gwaihir Scout!!