Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU (& 3DS) (Read 461718 times)

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #375 on:** August 29, 2012, 08:42:59 PM »

I still think the best items were in the original. The items played a part of the game, but didn't become essential...except for the crazy baseball bat.

I also miss the silly and fun sound effects of the original.

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #376 on:** August 29, 2012, 09:02:43 PM »

Quote from: tendoboy1984 on August 29, 2012, 07:30:03 PM

No fighting game has perfectly balanced characters. And that really isn't a big deal.

That's right. No fighter has perfect balance. Most have almost all of their matchup odds no worse than 6-4. That's all I'm asking.

Louieturkey · « **Reply #377 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:04:49 PM »

Quote from: marty on August 29, 2012, 05:03:57 PM

Quote from: Louieturkey on August 29, 2012, 03:08:13 PM
So you're saying the game should be more unbalanced? Nobody has said they want the game to be like other fighters other than being better balanced than Brawl, which most traditional fighting games are better balanced than Brawl.

I'm not a fighting game fan at all. I love the Smash Bros. games though and Melee is my favorite. I'm not a tournament player nor am I a fan of watching fighting tournament play. But something was off about Brawl and some characters were better than others. That's a fact. I want better balance in the new Smash compared to Brawl. If they need to lower the number of characters to do it, then fine. If they can balance better with more characters, that's just gravy. But saying it's okay to be unbalanced because all other fighters are balanced and SB is the anti fighter game is beyond ridiculous.
Where do I say I want the game more unbalanced? Oh, that's right--i didn't. Glad that straw-man bullshit is behind us... let's see what else you have to say about things I didn't say... Some characters are better than others... fact! Okay, well, that's going to be true of every fighting game when there are different characters. You want better balance even if it means less characters ... I don't. I want more, not less, content, even if it means the game isn't balanced. It is okay if SB isn't perfectly balanced because it isn't a pure fighting game. Your last sentence makes zero sense. Complaining about balance in SB is like whining that there isn't rocket jumping in CoD.

Actually, I asked a legitimate question based on what you said and the fact that the argument has been about balance. I never said you said you wanted it unbalanced. I asked if that is what you said for clarification. The argument was about making the game more balanced than Brawl. You state Smash is the anti fighter and say we want it like other fighters. I state the only thing anyone said about being like other fighters is better balance than Brawl had. So I couldn't find any other argument other than wanting it less balanced in your reasoning. You didn't state clearly what you thought else we wanted from Brawl to be like fighters and as I didn't see any other argument, I asked if that was actually what you were saying. You now say you didn't. My last sentence made sense based on my understanding of your argument.

So please tell me what you think we are asking for in Smash to change to be more like other fighters if it isn't balance? If you could quote others who have said they want Smash to be like other fighters outside of balance, that would be helpful.

I also don't actually remember complaining about the balance per se. I just stated I'd like it to be better than Brawl's balance. I liked Brawl a lot and played it a lot. I'm not a good player, but even I think the balance can be better. I don't think that is complaining. It's pointing out something that can be better.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #378 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:28:13 AM »

Well, I think he was trying to say...other "real" fighters have several characters 30+ sometimes and are fairly balanced with characters.

Super Smash Bros Brawl is the antifighter...that doesn't mean it should be unbalanced or that you can use Brawl being an antifighter as an excuse for being unbalanced.

Smash Bros is the antifighter because it does not follow the traditional fighting standards. You don't have to learn complicated button presses for combos. You don't have to do difficultish joystick controls for combos...you don't have to have too many buttons to play.

Louieturkey · « **Reply #379 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:23:21 PM »

Quote from: Spak-Spang on August 31, 2012, 10:28:13 AM

Well, I think he was trying to say...other "real" fighters have several characters 30+ sometimes and are fairly balanced with characters.

Super Smash Bros Brawl is the antifighter...that doesn't mean it should be unbalanced or that you can use Brawl being an antifighter as an excuse for being unbalanced.

Smash Bros is the antifighter because it does not follow the traditional fighting standards. You don't have to learn complicated button presses for combos. You don't have to do difficultish joystick controls for combos...you don't have to have too many buttons to play.

This is why I like it so much. The game is not complicated but you can get better by practicing and knowing how your player moves and everything. If the balance is better than Brawl, I think this game could be better than Melee in my opinion, regardless of the number of characters. To be honest, I'd rather have more characters as well, as long as it's balanced properly.

marty · « **Reply #380 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:57:43 PM »

@Louieturkey

I don't know why you have a hard time understanding that I was agreeing with Luigi Dude and catekiller. The perceived balance problems of the SB games don't detract from their value to the vast majority of people that bought the game. Taking away characters would decrease the value of the game to most people, even if the balance were better.

Louieturkey · « **Reply #381 on:** August 31, 2012, 08:27:29 PM »

Quote from: marty on August 31, 2012, 01:57:43 PM

@Louieturkey

I don't know why you have a hard time understanding that I was agreeing with Luigi Dude and catekiller. The perceived balance problems of the SB games don't detract from their value to the vast majority of people that bought the game. Taking away characters would decrease the value of the game to most people, even if the balance were better.

Never said I wanted to take away characters. All I said was if the balance got better compared to Brawl and they had to take characters away to do it, I'd be fine with that. If they can do it and add more characters, I'll be super stoked!

And Caterkiller wants better balance as well.

marty · « **Reply #382 on:** September 02, 2012, 11:17:25 AM »

I still don't see what I'm saying that you find so objectionable.

The success of SB has never hinged on balance. More content (characters, moves, stages, items) is going to serve far more players than balance would, since the perceived balance issues seem to matter most to competitive players, who try to rebalance the game based on their own ruleset and probably would continue to anyway, regardless of how much Nintendo did to balance the game. Making low level play better, with more content, is going to improve the game for more people than focusing on high level play would. Nintendo should focus their effort on the low level players, not the high level ones (since there are so few, relatively speaking). I'd be fine with better balance, too.

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #383 on:** September 02, 2012, 11:35:28 AM »

Quote from: marty on September 02, 2012, 11:17:25 AM

The success of SB has never hinged on balance.

Before you go any further about success, you might want to think about how you define success. Just sales? Or being the best game it can be?

Quote

More content (characters, moves, stages, items) is going to serve far more players than balance would, since the perceived balance issues seem to matter most to competitive players, who try to rebalance the game based on their own ruleset and probably would continue to anyway, regardless of how much Nintendo did to balance the game. Making low level play better, with more content, is going to improve the game for more people than focusing on high level play would. Nintendo should focus their effort on the low level players, not the high level ones (since there are so few, relatively speaking). I'd be fine with better balance, too.

I'd like to post again, over and over again, that the amount of content vs character balance is a false dichotomy, a choice that isn't really made. Artists and designers make the characters and stages and whatever, and different people fine-tune the combat design (unless something is very very wrong in that studio).

Having a balanced metagame is important for the sustainability of Smash. These games only come out like once every what, 5 years? They have to last us a long time and I don't think it's an infinitesmal number that plays the game a lot and gets good at it. I don't want to play Wii U Smash for just a couple months, get good enough to realize there are serious problems, and them drop it.

Alternate smug tournament jerk post: not everyone stays an unskilled casual scumsucker forever, have fun with Ivan Ooze.

nickmitch · « **Reply #384 on:** September 02, 2012, 12:43:55 PM »

There's 8 minutes I'll never get back.

Caterkiller · « **Reply #385 on:** September 19, 2012, 03:59:42 PM »

More confirmation that Sakurai is in complete control. Don't look at it as the Tekken Team not working on the game at all because I think that's what some people think. That's not what he's saying. What we know is that various members from various Namco Bandia teams including the Tekken Team will be working on this game. I am sure something was lost when translating thi.

http://nintendoeverything.com/99673/harada-on-the-involvement-of-namco-bandais-tekken-team-on-smash-bros/

Quote

According to Harada:
“We’ll be providing our expertise when asked, but it’s not like we’ll (the Tekken Team) be making the game.”

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #386 on:** September 19, 2012, 07:47:35 PM »

Basically, it means the Tekken Team is on standby...they will probably be the team that tweaks play control and balance...which is probably a good thing.

Luigi Dude · « **Reply #387 on:** September 20, 2012, 06:07:30 PM »

So according to recent reports, the Fire Emblem: Awakening DLC on the 3DS has been pretty successful for Nintendo. Even though the game has sold over 400k, the money made from DLC is close to the equivalent to what Nintendo would have made if they sold 100k more copies.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=492256

So if a smaller series like Fire Emblem can make good money off of new character and map DLC, how much more would Nintendo think a way bigger series like Smash Bros could make? Yeah, I think there's a pretty good chance Nintendo is going to include future DLC in Smash Bros.

My prediction still stands that they'll probably use DLC for some of the more popular niche characters like Shulk and Saki since the characters are from series that have a smaller fanbase but pretty hardcore and would be willing to spend extra money on DLC. I also wouldn't be surprised if they use DLC to include cut characters like Mewtwo and Roy again since they still have a good sized audience that would be willing to pay for them as well.

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #388 on:** September 20, 2012, 06:15:42 PM »

I hope that through the disc and DLC, you will be able to get every character and stage that has ever appeared in the SSB series (I still hate that the N64 Hyrule Castle has never been used again), same with the Mario Kart series. Imagine being able to get the uber Mario Kart game, with every single stage and character ever used all in one game?

Louieturkey · « **Reply #389 on:** September 20, 2012, 10:02:44 PM »

That actually sounds quite awesome.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #390 on:** September 20, 2012, 10:09:16 PM »

Actually Niche characters are the way NOT to do download content.

You should actually tie Niche character downloads with another more popular character. Perhaps DLC is 2-3 characters per purchase. A niche Character, a classic character, and a new popular character.

So for example I can see. Jill from Drill doser being a niche character, Doctor Mario being a classic character, and Toad being a Popular new character.

Or Nintendo could just win the internets with a nude suit samus download...

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #391 on:** September 20, 2012, 10:22:03 PM »

And Zach would be the first person in the world to download it.

Adrock · « **Reply #392 on:** September 20, 2012, 10:28:21 PM »

Quote from: Spak-Spang on September 20, 2012, 10:09:16 PM

You should actually tie Niche character downloads with another more popular character. Perhaps DLC is 2-3 characters per purchase. A niche Character, a classic character, and a new popular character.

True. Niche character stand a better chance of not being ignored if it's packaged with a character people really want.

I hope for no DLC. Smash Bros. would likely be the only game that could convince me to get everything. I'm sure Nintendo knows this is true for scores of people.

Anth0ny · « **Reply #393 on:** September 22, 2012, 10:10:16 AM »

I imagine niche characters like Shulk would be the last DLC characters in Nintendo's mind. With a game like Smash Bros, you can expose the lesser known characters to more players than ever before (see Marth and Roy in Melee). If it wasn't for Melee's success, we probably wouldn't have Fire Emblem in North American today.

I could see them offering a "Melee pack" or "Brawl pack" of characters, consisting of a couple of newcomers from each game. Old stages will probably be available as DLC as well. Don't forget music. Alternate costumes? New 1P modes? Trophies and stickers?

The possibilities are endless with DLC in a Smash Bros game.

Adrock · « **Reply #394 on:** December 07, 2012, 06:33:42 PM »

[Note: This will never happen]

Since the 3DS game is supposedly the Adventure Mode, I thought it'd be really cool for the story to have like an invasion angle with 3rd party characters showing up in Nintendo Land (not the amusement park). Then, you get to unlock them in the Wii U game by connecting with the 3DS game (such as once you defeat them in the 3DS Adventure, you can connect to the Wii U game and have the Warning! Challenger Approaching match). If you don't have a 3DS or the game, the 3rd party characters would be released as paid DLC.

I know Sakurai doesn't want too many 3rd party characters, but this would be a neat-o way to include a Dream Team of them. If they're treated as special challengers, the focus is still primarily on Nintendo's own franchises. I think it makes more sense than Snake and Sonic just showing up and being like, "We're going to be in this game now, kthnx."

Caterkiller · « **Reply #395 on:** December 13, 2012, 04:59:13 PM »

http://gengame.net/2012/12/masahiro-sakurai-says-not-to-expect-any-smash-bros-news-anytime-soon/

Quote

To put it succinctly, I’ll need to have you guys wait a while longer. I hardly ever write anything on Twitter any longer, and that’s because I think right now is the time to stop tweeting and start putting in a real effort here. If I could put it a really harsh way, I think it’d be better if I could be forgotten by gamers for a while.

I don’t like it when a tweet or whatever leads to needless speculation getting spread around. For example, when I tweet about playing some game, some people immediately get the idea that that character is in the new Smash Bros. Then people fan the flames on it, people start to think it’s really true, people get angry about it. Nobody benefits.

I got asked once by a student ‘Is Fox really strong in Smash Bros. Brawl because you like Star Fox?’ Absolutely not. I don’t balance things based on that. These are very important titles that the creators and fans are leaving to me. In the worldwide online rankings, Fox’s winning record is right in the middle of all the characters. The idea with him was a character that suicided often, but made up for it with other skills, but I guess that prominence gave him this image of being really powerful.

Instead of talking about what Smash Bros. will be like. I’m just going to say ‘I’m making you wait for it!’ and keep going along. I want to put my all into a full-on launch that really makes that wait worth it.

Good, I say get off twitter and I like how he pointed out rabbid fan behaviour. Maybe people who read this can have conversations that are a little more sensible. I used to wonder, does he even take a second glance at our Twitter responses? Obviously after Namco was involved and criticized he made a statement. But it's nice that he can see our constant bickering over stupid stuff. And by "ours" I mean "them" not us...
Another thing to note is that he might actually look at competitive teir lists or what ever type of tracking system they have for Brawl. Not saying he will design the games with that stuff in mind, but I'm glad he is aware of it.
I suppose E3 will be the first time we get real info on this.

Adrock · « **Reply #396 on:** December 13, 2012, 05:14:49 PM »

Good. Keep it that way. I would even go as far as to say they shouldn't even update the Smash Dojo like they did with Brawl. It's hard to avoid info these days. I want to know as little about the games as possible until they come out.

Luigi Dude · « **Reply #397 on:** December 13, 2012, 06:19:26 PM »

Well this does show Sakurai is well informed about the Smash Bros fanbase and knows what they like and don't like. If he knows about all the speculation and the anger people start having, tells you he's browsing message boards, reading messages sent to him and seeing fan reaction himself. This means when deciding what new characters get in, he does have a good idea on who people want added to the roster. It also shows he knows about the complaints people had with the Subspace Emissary as well so people shouldn't expect an adventure mode in the next Smash Bros to end up the same way again.

Caterkiller · « **Reply #398 on:** January 23, 2013, 06:32:00 PM »

Bumping this because of Sakurai's twitter this morning.

He basically say's this Nintendo Direct told us to wait until E3 for Smash related info. Then he more or less say's he will put out a better trailer/presentation at E3 than this Nintendo Direct, or is he upping the new smash trailer from the Brawl one? I don't speak Japanese.

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai

いましがたNintendo Directで「WiiU、3DSの『スマブラ』最新作について、今年のE3で映像公開する」ことが発表されました。普通のゲームは映像等ができてからの発表ですが、今回は製作発表が先になったので、お待たせしてしまいますね。しかし、よりよいものを出していきます!

Send it through Google translate!

nickmitch · « **Reply #399 on:** January 23, 2013, 07:21:18 PM »

Ok.

Quote

"WiiU, the 3DS" Nintendo Direct only just in Smash Bros. "for the latest work, published in the E3 video of the year" that was announced. Ordinary game is an announcement from the video and be equal, making this announcement because it has reached its destination, but to have kept you waiting. However, I will put a better one!

News:

Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU (& 3DS) (Read 461718 times)