Topic: Project Café Game Concepts

[Chozo Ghost]

Ian, I assume that since Nintendo is most likely going to allow the Wiimote to function with the Cafe it will probably also allow the Classic Controller to work as well. This way gamers will have some choices... not to mention the fact that 3rd parties can and will introduce their own controllers. You say the GC controller sucks for fighting games, but that's actually true with any standard controller. The best controller for 2D fighters is a joystick like they use in arcades, and recent games like the new Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter IV actually have their own official branded arcade joysticks available for purchase.

Aside from the standard Cafe controller, I would also expect the Wiimote, wiimote w/ nunchuk, and classic controller to all be supported control methods. Nintendo isn't going to just throw out the wiimote, and since the classic controller tethers itself to that one could reasonably expect support for that to be there as well.... but its going to be something that the game developers will have to provide for. If its the sort of game where it makes sense, then they probably will support it.

[JasonMaivia]

 -I'd like to play old Virtual Console games online, like what was done on Xbox Arcade and Playstation Network (the Wii REALLY missed out on these).

 -With Skype, it'd be nice to call any person on your friend network, even if they're playing a different game.  Skype is on PS3, PSP, and now Microsoft will probably use it for their systems, leaving Nintendo out again, if they don't include it (if Sony doesn't stop supporting it).

 -I do think that the Gamecube controller design needs to die.  It doesn't work to well with too many games, especially games that relies on precision controlling with the D-Pad, like fighters and most other 2D games.  Ever play Metal Slug Anthology on Wii?  Unless you have the Japanese version, there's no D-Pad support for Gamecube controllers or Classic Controller support at all, which kinda hurts it.  Oh, and personally, I don't like using joysticks for fighters.
  Gamecube's shoulder buttons are also very bad.  The extra click was hardly used, even by Nintendo, and the Z button is out of place.
  Gamecube's 4 face buttons' placement and shapes only made some games harder to play.  I was happy to see it not used for the Classic Controller's design, and I don't want it to return for the Cafe's controller.

 -More programs on the Nintendo Channel, along with Nintendo Week.  Expand.

 -Online games with drop in/drop out play with an invitation system.

 -ALL GAMES WITH STANDARD CONTROLLER SUPPORT (this is more of a developer thing).  There wouldn't be much of a problem with games like Virtua Tennis 4 if the main controller packed in with the system was the Classic Controller instead of just the Wiimote/Nunchuck.

[NWR_insanolord]

The GameCube controller is awesome. It's easily the most ergonomic controller design ever. I wouldn't mind if they switched the buttons to the layout on the Classic Controller, and they should make the D-Pad a bit bigger and add a fourth shoulder button, but everything else should stay the same.

[JasonMaivia]

I'd prefer using the Classic Controller Pro, turning the ZR and LZ buttons (I friggin' hate the names) into analog triggers, and swaping the D-Pad and Analog stick placements.

In the end, you'll end up with the Xbox controller.  I don't like having the left analog stick in the center, like Playstation's.




Also....what does the +2/-3 mean under my avatar?

[Ian Sane]

I really dig the ergonomics of the Cube controller.  It always felt so perfect in my hands.  But it is also a great example of how Nintendo half-asses something when they don't give a ****.  It is clear they didn't care about a d-pad (ironic since these days they love it) so they just shoved the GBA one on there which was so small it was practically useless.  Third parties requested a Z trigger (admitingly a dumb request) so Nintendo just threw some crappy Z button wherever.  The Cube controller just reaks of Nintendo doing what they want to do perfectly and doing what they are requested to do by others with the absolute bare minimum effort imaginable.

But if they could get a controller to just melt in my hands like that again, I'm all for it.

I want Nintendo to make everything with the same care and attention to detail they show for things they care about.  When they care they can move mountains.  If they put that same effort into everything else they would untouchable.  When they want to they really get things right.

[Stogi]

When they care they can move mountains.  If they put that same effort into everything else they would untouchable.  When they want to they really get things right.

*tears up*

Ian's dead everyone.

[NWR_insanolord]

I'd prefer using the Classic Controller Pro, turning the ZR and LZ buttons (I friggin' hate the names) into analog triggers, and swaping the D-Pad and Analog stick placements.

In the end, you'll end up with the Xbox controller.  I don't like having the left analog stick in the center, like Playstation's.




Also....what does the +2/-3 mean under my avatar?

When you think about it, you and I pretty much described the same thing. I just started from the GameCube design and you from the CCPro.

The +2/-3 is your karma score. Once you get to 1,000 posts little buttons will appear under people's names that allow you to applaud or smite them for their post, which will increase the first and second numbers, respectively. Word of advice: don't pay much attention to that. It doesn't really mean anything, and isn't worth worrying about.

[Stogi]

It is worth worrying about if you suck at life.

[NWR_insanolord]

I like to be positive about the people who visit this site and assume they don't suck at life until proven otherwise.

[King of Twitch]

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

[NWR_insanolord]

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

This is a very cromulent post.

[Bman87301]

Aside from the standard Cafe controller, I would also expect the Wiimote, wiimote w/ nunchuk, and classic controller to all be supported control methods. Nintendo isn't going to just throw out the wiimote, and since the classic controller tethers itself to that one could reasonably expect support for that to be there as well.... but its going to be something that the game developers will have to provide for. If its the sort of game where it makes sense, then they probably will support it.

But the thing is, we don't actually know what the standard Cafe controller will be. It could be an upgraded Wii-type Remote which would eliminate the need for for the old Wii Remote and Classic Controllers anyway. Like I already said in an earlier post, we know there's going to be a touch screen device of some sort, but we don't know that will be the primary control method. Considering the impracticalities and and high price tag additional controllers of that type would entail, I'm going to assume that this touch screen device is not it. Until we hear otherwise, I'm going to bet on it being a redesigned Wii-style Remote/Nunchuk combo.

[BlackNMild2k1]

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

What does it do to one that is already big?

[NWR_insanolord]

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

What does it do to one that is already big?

It helps him marry his cousin.

[famicomplicated]

Don't get too hung up on button layouts guys, this is all about game ideas/concepts and what we want to see in the next iterations of our favourite Nintendo games.
The GameCube-esque mock-up picture is just there for reference to show the screen in the middle of a controller (I could have chosen a Classic Controller just as easily)


But yeah, I do hope they don't screw up the button layout with the Cafe one, we've had unusual/non-standard layouts since the N64 now!

Loving the Jebediah Springfield references by the way!


Look out for another exciting P.Cafe concept from Carmine Red coming soon!

[Chozo Ghost]

-I do think that the Gamecube controller design needs to die.

*smite*

The GameCube controller is awesome.

*applaud*

[JasonMaivia]

@ Chozo Ghost

Every try playing Capcom vs SNK 2 EO on the Gamecube?

Horrible!

[Bman87301]

Don't get too hung up on button layouts guys, this is all about game ideas/concepts and what we want to see in the next iterations of our favourite Nintendo games.
The GameCube-esque mock-up picture is just there for reference to show the screen in the middle of a controller (I could have chosen a Classic Controller just as easily)


But yeah, I do hope they don't screw up the button layout with the Cafe one, we've had unusual/non-standard layouts since the N64 now!

Loving the Jebediah Springfield references by the way!


Look out for another exciting P.Cafe concept from Carmine Red coming soon!

In the meantime, check out my Project Cafe concept design:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/bman87301/cafe-1-1.jpg


"Look! It's some sort of land cow!"

[famicomplicated]

@ Chozo Ghost

Every try playing Capcom vs SNK 2 EO on the Gamecube?

Horrible!

I found it quite natural to push up-left on the C-stick to do an uppercut.
/sarcasm.

@Bman87301
Nice concept Bman, although do you think they'll use wires again?
I personally hope for completely wire free, plus a dock to charge everything as part of the console's design.

[Bman87301]

Nice concept Bman, although do you think they'll use wires again?
I personally hope for completely wire free, plus a dock to charge everything as part of the console's design.

I expect a wired connection for the same reason iPods still use wired headphones-- there's not enough reason to justify the need of the extra batteries a connection that's only a few feet apart would require-- not to mention the extra hassle of keeping track of the multiple parts. A wireless connection for a controller to a console is one thing, but where's the benefit or practicability of wirelessly connecting something only as far as the distance between your right and left hands? I know some third parties have had some success with wireless Nunchuks because it's sellable as a gimmick. As far as logistics go though, it's just not practical as a standard design. Sure, the wire design on the current Wii Nunchuk definitely is flawed since it hangs down and gets in the way. But if you take a closer look at my design you'll see I addressed that issue by giving the wire a phone-style coiling design.  The new wire design solves that issue, so making it wireless would just be overkill in my opinion.

But I do agree with you that some of dock for recharging batteries built-in to the controllers is a good bet. Especially since the extra weight the use of AAs added was a large part of what let to "flying Remote" issue that gave Nintendo so many headaches for the Wii. Since Nintendo already included a charging dock with the 3DS, I'm going to say something similar for Cafe's controllers is nearly certain.

[Nik Vendiers]

After playing along with the Retroactive of Perfect Dark it got me thinking about the evolution of Nintendo consoles and the way that they play first person shooters. Although Nintendo often seems to leave the FPS genre behind compared to its highly prized platforming Mario titles and other first party games, when you look at the evolution of first person shooters on Nintendo consoles, it has always been innovative. Although this is not to say it has always been the best as I was told the N64 used an interesting setup of strafing and aiming using the one analog stick and C-buttons. I can only shudder at the thought of how difficult that must have been. But this was changed again with the Gamecube and for this example I'll use the Metroid titles which used a system of movement with the control stick then aiming while you held down the left trigger. Although this wasn't much better then what I presume using the N64 setup would have been like, it was different. Change was implemented again with the introduction of the Wii, which offered an amazing system of the current point-and-click aiming. This system works wonderfully and it's sad to see that Nintendo hasn't really pushed the genre to compete with the more popular FPS games such as Halo and Call of Duty on the other platforms. On a side note, although it is not a main console, the DS also offered unique controls with the touchpad such as with Metroid Hunters, which also performed well and was fun to play. Again, also very little support from Nintendo to continue the FPS genre on the DS. From all of this my point is to come to the next Nintendo system: Project Cafe. Perhaps I'm missing something but the controller really does not seem to be very innovative as far as I can tell. Placing a DS on a remote is far from unique, why not just play the system with multiple DS systems then? Does anyone have any speculations on how Nintendo might use the new controller to create a unique and different way to play first person shooters, or do you think they might just fall in line with the Xbox 360 and PS3 and just use a dual analog control with some touch screen usage?

Just throwing out my thoughts but in the end I suppose we'll have to wait for the release at E3 to truly know how things will turn out.

[Bman87301]

All these game ideas all seem to be based around concepts using multiple touch-screen controllers at once and rectifying the failed GBA to GCN connectivity idea. Maybe I'm missing something, but if getting multiple GBAs together was too pricey to succeed, then where's the logic of assuming an additional controller that has a built-in screen, full set of buttons buttons, and streaming capabilities would be all that more economical? The absolute cheapest I could possibly picture a device like that costing is $80... and again, that's the absolute cheapest-- meaning it would most likely be even higher. I don't understand how anyone could reasonably expect it to be commonplace for people to have multiple of these to play in unison together. I'd only expect one for each system, therefore none of these ideas could possibly work. Unless I'm missing something to your logic...

[Chozo Ghost]

$80 for a controller is reasonable considering controllers now cost $50, and in the case of the Wiimote plus chuck you have to spend an extra $20 for the nunchuck so on the Wii you are spending $70 per controller (and that doesn't include other peripherals such as a wheel, zapper, classic controller, etc). We are also living in an era where games cost $60, so for just $20 more than what you'd spend on a game you might beat in a week you can buy a controller which is good for the entire lifespan of the console and beyond. So I don't think its unreasonable to spend $80 especially considering all the hardware the Cafe controller is alleged to come packed with (touch screen, IR, camera, etc.)

Also, if you can use it as a universal remote for every TV and entertainment device you own then it would also be worth it for that reason alone.

ETA: An $80 Cafe controller which streams content is a far more economical prospect than the GCN-GBA connectivity scheme. For one thing, didn't the GBA handheld cost more than $80? On top of that, you had to buy a GBA Cartridge for each and every GBA which was where it really got expensive and absurd. You also needed link cables for each GBA to link up to the GCN.

Since the Cafe is wireless there is no need for link cables, and since content is streamed back and forth there is no need to own multiple versions of the same game in order for 2-4 or more players to all get in on the action. With the Cafe each player only needs their own controller, and that's it... period.

[Ceric]

All these game ideas all seem to be based around concepts using multiple touch-screen controllers at once and rectifying the failed GBA to GCN connectivity idea. Maybe I'm missing something, but if getting multiple GBAs together was too pricey to succeed, then where's the logic of assuming an additional controller that has a built-in screen, full set of buttons buttons, and streaming capabilities would be all that more economical? The absolute cheapest I could possibly picture a device like that costing is $80... and again, that's the absolute cheapest-- meaning it would most likely be even higher. I don't understand how anyone could reasonably expect it to be commonplace for people to have multiple of these to play in unison together. I'd only expect one for each system, therefore none of these ideas could possibly work. Unless I'm missing something to your logic...

Let's put it like this.  The cost of a GBA was $89.99 and the link cable was $5 I think.  So $94.99.  Now imagine its 2004 and you need to spend $95 to play  Four Swords how its meant to be played per person.  Now lets looks at inflation.  That $94.99 would be $108.71 per person now.

Take in the fact that you could only use this for a handful of games (Hi! Motion Plus, Wii Board, CC, CC Pro, etc) and to get a whole party together you spend $380 on additional tech to your Gamecube, though realistically everyone should have had a GBA... Now what if instead those 4 other controllers where the Actual game controllers?  You'll probably won't more of them anyways.  Not to mention as I've said before the cost of all their talking about has gone down dramatically since just last year.  Nintendo doesn't have to use the uber screen or anything.  Shoot they could use the original DS Phat pretty much everything.

Though in the end the biggest thing this proves is that Current controllers are really a ripoff now.

[BlackNMild2k1]

All these game ideas all seem to be based around concepts using multiple touch-screen controllers at once and rectifying the failed GBA to GCN connectivity idea. Maybe I'm missing something...

The reason connectivity failed is because it required you to go buy extra hardware that was likely only compatible with 1 or 2 games and then served no other connectivity purpose and you no longer have a need of the other 4 pieces of hardware. That doesn't justify the cost.
1 GC + 4 GBA's + 1 Game + 4 Cables + 3 other friends = BYOS or we ain't playing this game.

Nintendo tried to bring us Connectivity and it was just too expensive and not supported.
Sony tried to bring us connectivity, but it was too expensive and didn't work right.

Now Nintendo is gonna build in connectivity so that it can be supported by every developer from the start and that alone will justify the cost.