Topic: Sony Hasn't Learned Anything, While Nintendo Has.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo doesn't have a kiddy image anymore.  They traded it for the casual image... which is worse.

I believe Nintendo's lack of third party support is largely their own inability to be accomodating.  They think of third parties as rivals at worst or are utterly indifferent at best.  If that ever changed, they could work to repair things without having to ditch Mario or having any real impact of their own first party software.

[oohhboy]

Sega does what Nintendon't.  Last thing you want is for Nintendo to pull a Sonic with Mario

If accommodating 3rd party mean handing out money hats, it has been shown it's not profitable for the console maker. Sure it makes sense if your breaking into the market, buying support, but when your doing it in you're third alliteration, something is structurally wrong. Even MS has gotten shy or hush hush over money hats, since Rare.

That said, Nintendo does buy support, by making them 2nd party.

[Enner]

Bringing them in to the fold. Wait, that would be buying them outright like Retro and Monolith. I guess that would be fine as well, assuming that their games are released widely (Xenoblade, I want to play you).

[Chozo Ghost]

With all this money Nintendo now has they probably should be making some acquisitions. Abraham Lincoln said "I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend", well buying these companies up is making friends, because you now own them and can get their products delivered exclusively to your systems.

That said, Nintendo should try to target Rockstar. This is a company which is known for the M rated games like GTA and Red Dead Redemption. Imagine what it would do for improving Nintendo's image among the hardcore crowd if these sorts of games suddenly became exclusive to Nintendo.

[TJ Spyke]

Would you want them to just target Rockstar Games or go for all of Take-Two Interactive? I think they would have to go for the whole company since I am not sure the company could survive without GTA. I would love to see Nintendo buy them, even just to see the reaction from Sony and Microsoft fanboys. LOL.

[NWR_insanolord]

The problem is that if Nintendo were to buy Take Two there would be nothing stopping all the developers from leaving and forming new studios. Nintendo knows that, and that's why they don't buy developers very often, and when they do they're usually small, relatively new ones.

[TJ Spyke]

True, Nintendo themselves have even said that they buy studios for the talent who work there since they are the ones responsible for making the games. I am sure if Nintendo could convince people like the Houser brothers to sign contracts guaranteeing they would stay with the company, they might consider it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

If anything, they should invest in these companies so that they have a large enough percentage of votes to influence decisions. This will not get them exclusivity in most cases, but it should get them a game on their platform in every case, not to mention first crack at DLC and any other extras.

And then if MS or Sony want to purchase exclusive DLC, then they are basically buying Nintendo out of the right and that will be much more expensive than it is now.

[Stogi]

Nintendo shouldn't buy companies. Instead, they should open up several more studios of their own with different and diverse objectives, and recruit new blood.

[NWR_insanolord]

Nintendo shouldn't buy companies. Instead, they should open up several more studios of their own with different and diverse objectives, and recruit new blood.

I think, given the incredible success of EAD Tokyo, this is clearly the way to go.

[Kytim89]

We can all agree that the Wii 2 needs to have stronger third party support and that means that the system will have to be HD and have better online capabilities.

[Ian Sane]

It isn't about moneyhats.  It's about having flexible hardware that meets the needs of most developers, not just Nintendo, and having good development kits and support, and having a licencing model that is financially worthwhile for third parites.  It's about making it easy for devs to make the games they want to make on your system.  You don't have to pay them for that.  Hell, everyone is multiplatform these days.

[Stogi]

I think Nintendo is pretty much always going to be one generation behind from now on (or until it's negligible). So much for multi-platform...

[Oblivion]

Who's to say they're "one gen behind"? I say they're right there with Sony and MS. Just because they have inferior hardware doesn't make them behind anything. Hardware sales clearly indicate that.

[Stogi]

Whoa buddy. Relax.

All I'm talking about is hardware. They are clearly one gen behind. Sure the games look great, but since the Wii can't support HD, no HD games are coming to it unless they are gimped, making multi-platform games difficult. But it's cool. Nintendo doesn't push the envelope in terms of graphical hardware, but they don't need to.

[Oblivion]

Whoa buddy. Relax.

I am relaxed. I just sound intense. XD And yep, I kinda agree with you, even though I hate HD.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Graphic tech-wise Nintendo may be behind a gen (Wii is basically a GC 1.5), but at the same time I think Xbox360 & PS3 may have jumped a little too far ahead considering the starting price of their launch consoles considering they were both taking a loss on hardware.

We should be on the verge of a new generation end of this year and PS360.5 is where we should naturally be with the affordable unified hardware structure.

So I think Nintendo may get back on the curve this upcoming gen, but Sony & MS will probably still be atleast a 1/2 gen ahead and their prices will show that.

[TJ Spyke]

I think Nintendo is pretty much always going to be one generation behind from now on (or until it's negligible). So much for multi-platform...

So because ONE system of theirs was behind, you assume that is gonna be the standard for them now?

[Shorty McNostril]

Hopefully, the 3DS gives us a glimpse of Nintendo's future strategy.

They gave the 3DS some grunt, lets hope they do the same with the new console.

[Chozo Ghost]

The lack of HD isn't really the Wii's problem at the moment. The problem is the weaker processor and far less RAM and internal storage  in comparison to the competition. These are the real issues, and even if the Wii had HD if everything else was still the same it wouldn't solve anything. Look at COD Black Ops. That game did in fact come to the Wii, but it strains the Wii hardware, and even then there are quite a few features cut out from the Wii version (Kill cams, 18 players, etc) that are present on the other platforms. It wasn't because Treyarch wanted to rip Wii users off, it was just that the Wii lacked the RAM and power to do it. Its as simple as that.

HD is just mere aesthetics. HD doesn't do a damn thing for improving AI, the number of enemies that can be on the screen simultaneously, and so on and so forth.

I think Nintendo is pretty much always going to be one generation behind from now on (or until it's negligible). So much for multi-platform...

So because ONE system of theirs was behind, you assume that is gonna be the standard for them now?

This generation was the exception. Nintendo had done so poorly with the Gamecube that they needed a console that would sell and reverse their downward spiral that they were in since the N64. Every generation since the NES caused Nintendo to lose a little more market share so something had to be done. Nintendo could have pushed for a system that would have been on par with the competition, but to do so would have resulted in a $400 or more price tag. If Nintendo had done that their console would have struggled for the same exact reason that the PS3 struggled until its price was cut to a more reasonable level. But instead of doing that, they focused on innovative controls and using more modest hardware they were able to bring out a system half the cost of what it would otherwise be, and their strategy was obviously very successful because they went from 3rd place to 1st very quickly.

So considering the dire straits Nintendo was at the time the Wii was a very logical design. But at this point its served its purpose. Now that Nintendo is in 1st place again they no longer need to be the budget choice. That's why I would bet money the Wii 2 will be at least on par with the PS3/360, if not actually even more powerful. Assuming the PS3/360 last another 5 years then that would mean 5 years where Nintendo has the most powerful system on the market.

Anyone who thinks Nintendo is always going to have the weakest console needs to dust off their history books and look at the example of the N64. It was the only (unless you count the Jaguar) 64-bit console in its day and was therefore twice as powerful as the competition. It was a PS3 in its day. The Gamecube was also more powerful than the PS2 and the SNES was more powerful than the Genesis (except in processor speed), so that's why the Wii having weaker hardware is the exception and not the rule. But like I said considering the circumstances Nintendo was facing it was necessary that they did what they did by choosing affordable hardware instead of powerful hardware.

If Nintendo had done what Ian and some others here are saying they should have done then its likely they would still be in 3rd place (or even worse).

[Scatt-Man]

From kiddie to cheap.

I'm thinking Nintendo's first taste of the casual buzz came with the introduction of Nintendogs, and they've been clamouring for more of that crowd ever since. It's clear they still want to entice that same market with the 3DS, seeing as Nintendogs is a launch title. I find it all a little confusing, seeing as the 3DS' price isn't exactly cheap...maybe even a bit too expensive, certainly for the non-enthusiasts.

I can't wait to get my dirty hands on this 3DS! A lot of the media out there has me pretty underwhelmed, and I'm hoping that that's due to the images having to be blown up on the intertubes or something. After all of that "IT LOOKS LIKE AN EXBAWKS!" before the reveal, to now having that "We've had to compromise to get the game on a Nintendo platform" we've all hated hearing throughout the Wii's lifespan. Yeah, It's not so much that I care about moving backgrounds in a Street Fighter game, but damnit... 

[TJ Spyke]

The Wii sold like gangbusters at $250, so the casual market is willing to spend that much (I know consoles and handhelds are different outside of Japan, but they still were willing).

I think many of the 3DS games look great, I am not excited about Steel Diver or Bust-A-Move Universe (among others); but I think many of the games look great even in 2D and can't wait to see them in 3D.

[Ian Sane]

Since Nintendo held back this gen, to catch up they would have to go beyond a normal jump.  My concern would be if they are willing to make that kind of jump.  Plus they don't know what Sony and MS will do.  They have to either wait them out or guess what level they will go to and try to go to something similar.

It isn't just the hardware though, it can also be the experience.  Nintendo didn't go online with the Gamecube.  Well that inexperience is clearly reflected in the Wii.  They have probably the weakest online service of the three and I don't think it's a coincedence that they have years less of experience.  They ran into storage problems for example.  I doubt that will happen next gen because they learned about it this gen.  But everyone else learned about it a gen before.  If Nintendo had more experience with online gaming they would have realized the potential problems of that limitation.

Nintendo has not developed games that have really pushed hardware to its limits in a long time.  Hell, they don't even seem to push the Wii hardware.  So now we would like them to design significantly more powerful hardware but they have no experience with working with hardware like that.  Pushing the envelope out of hardware is not something they've done for a long time.  Thus they might make questionable designs due to inexperience.  There might be some sort of programming trick that everyone uses that Nintendo is completely oblivious to and then they end up designing hardware that doesn't allow for it.  I remember the Sega Saturn apparently used rectangular polygons when the industry standard was triangular polygons.  In terms of specs the Saturn could pump out polygons but Sega goofed in being unaware of the industry standards.  Nintendo has not made HD games so they run the risk of being ignorant of important things.

There could also be some problem that everyone works around but no one likes and Sony and MS address that with their next hardware.  But Nintendo, being inexperienced, has that same problem in their new hardware.  The Unreal Engine is something everyone uses these days.  It has to work on the Wii 2.  If it doesn't Nintendo going nutso with specs won't matter.  Nintendo has to KNOW about this engine and know how to accomodate for it.

Nintendo has been more or less isolated from the rest of the industry for the last five years.  What we're really asking for is for them to join back in.  To do so when they're a generation behind will be very difficult.  They have to really pay attention to what they're doing, which is something Nintendo hasn't done with hardware design since the SNES.  Can I really trust the Nintendo that was so out of touch they did not anticipate people running out of storage space?

[BlackNMild2k1]

That is why everyone is hopeful that Nintendo's stance on working with 3rd parties during Hardware Development is something that carries over from the 3DS. We are hoping for an adequate storage solution, a more than sufficient amount of RAM and processing power, updateable features set that can run across all games and enough inputs to satisfy the majority of dev and pubs (like 4 useable face buttons [+ @:  #], Vitality sensor built into the controller, motion camera, etc etc.) so that the only possible excuses are from those that have a grudge (Epic) or just lack imagination.

As for the rest of what was said I'll just quote myself with a few edits.
:quote... sorta:
Tech-wise Nintendo may be behind a gen (Wii is basically a GC 1.5), but at the same time I think Xbox360 & PS3 may have jumped a little too far ahead (about 1/2 a gen ahead) considering the starting price of their launch consoles and also the fact that they were both taking a loss on hardware, not only from the start, but up until the 3rd or 4th year since release.

We should be on the verge of a new generation end of this year and PS360.5 is where we should naturally be with the affordable unified hardware structure. That is where I think Nintendo will land with the upcoming Wii2, somewhere ahead of PS360, but only in an Xbox over PS2 kind of way, not and PS360 over Wii kinda way.

So I think Nintendo may get back on the curve this upcoming gen, but Sony & MS will probably still be atleast a 1/2 gen ahead and their prices will reflect that. They will push for tech that is still priced too high, hoping for systems that become profitable 3-4 years down the line instead of hardware that is affordable on the day of release. This will make their new systems look very capable next to games on their PC counterparts, but given the cost of developing those type of graphics on a console, we will run into the same issue they had this gen with rising cost, closing doors, increased profit lines & the added problem of diminishing returns.

[MegaByte]

That's actually why I'm worried that Nintendo went with a graphics solution for 3DS that doesn't support OpenGL ES 2.0, the current industry standard that all other modern mobile platforms support. Instead, they have a proprietary shader system, which bit them in the ass on GameCube and Wii. Granted, it's a lot better than the system used on those consoles, but it still makes for extra work.