Topic: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!

[broodwars]

I have a concern that accepting the give-aways will negate your claim in a class action lawsuit. By downloading the titles, you are essentially saying 'I accept your apology, you're off the hook'. And probably to the vast majority, this is what they'll do. Which will give Sony ammo to fight the validity of a class action suit and try to reduce it to individual suits which it can hold off until the suing party runs out of money, or settles out of court to avoid admitting wrong-doing.

While I'm sure they could argue that point to a jury, I think that the only way this could negate a class action lawsuit was if there was legal text when you downloaded these freebies stating that you waive your right to a class action lawsuit.  I read through the Terms & Conditions on the latest firmware, and I don't think that was displayed anywhere so I don't think Sony's had us agree to that yet.

Even still, though, would it really matter if we did lose the right to class action lawsuit Sony?  It's not like we'd ever see a return on that, given the number of plaintiffs.

[Chozo Ghost]

In any case, I would strongly recommend everyone carefully read the fine print before they go "oh wow! free games!" and sell their souls so to speak. The offer is going to be in effect for 30 days, so you don't have to rush in and download the games on day one. I would recommend waiting and seeing what various websites and legal analysts and news media have to say about it first.

ETA: The games being offered aren't really anything I'm particularly interested in or was ever planning on buying anyway, so I can certainly skip this offer if I have to. As for not seeing anything from a class action lawsuit, well perhaps not, but there is a little something called principle that would still make it worthwhile to me to pursue it. I don't believe in people (or corporate entities) doing wrong and getting away with it, and I especially don't believe in people doing wrong 77 million times and getting away with it. Heads should roll because of this. Maybe we won't gain anything, but Sony definitely should lose something, just like the 77 million people who lost something because of this.

[Morari]

First they came for the Other OS,
and I didn't speak out because I didn't use Linux.

Then they came for the hackers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a hacker.

Then they came for my PSN
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Looks like Sony F'd it up again
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430574

but they were quick to "fix" it this time.
-PSN password change hack-

This is a continuation on this story:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430519

First, to avoid unnecessary panic, let me just say that Sony already took the page down, and are most likely fixing it, and if you were a victim of this, you would get an email warning someone had changed your password, so if you didn't, you're safe.

Now to the whole story:
This guy on twitter ( http://twitter.com/#!/Nyleveia ) was claiming there was an exploit on the password recovery page that allowed anyone with a matching PSN login address and Date of Birth could change your password without you confirming it. Personally I didn't believe him so I gave him my login and dob. He didn't reply for a long time so I went to sleep. This morning however I got these 2 emails.

http://i.imgur.com/S7Vig.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WEDAn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BRFEL.jpg
Sender details

The first one is saying that someone had requested to change my password, and that I needed to click the confirmation link to continue. All normal for now, supposedly only people with access to the login address can change it then. HOWEVER the second email is a confirmation that the password was changed and I never clicked the confirmation link... So yeah... my password was successfully changed by someone else.

And where the story gets even more interesting is that Sony are just lying about it. This is their latest tweets.

Improve email process my ass. They took the password recovery page down because of this problem. Nyleveia warned about it, as confirmed by the latest tweet:

(the tweets warning about the exploit were removed, most likely cause Sony asked him to)

And now they're fixing the problem.


Honestly, I was never bothered by the original hack, no network is secure and I think Sony wasn't to blame and that they handled the entire thing by the book and quite well. This however... this is 100% on them, and what bothers me the most is that they're lying about it.

[Ian Sane]

My credit card number wasn't actually compromised by the hacking (because I hadn't given Sony it) so would I even be able to get in on a class action lawsuit?  I don't think it would make sense to sue them for the temporary inconvenience of PSN being down a few weeks.  It was a big **** up for sure but they really don't personally owe me any damages.

[UncleBob]

My credit card number wasn't actually compromised by the hacking (because I hadn't given Sony it) so would I even be able to get in on a class action lawsuit?  I don't think it would make sense to sue them for the temporary inconvenience of PSN being down a few weeks.  It was a big **** up for sure but they really don't personally owe me any damages.

Depends what the lawsuit was for.  If it was for credit card information, then no.  If it was for leaking personal information in general, then yes.

[Ceric]

Must be ran by PSN. :
Now watch the Store is back

[lolmonade]

Looks like Sony F'd it up again
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430574

  Prior to finding this website, a coworker and I were discussing why I was primarily a Playstation consumer, and he compared my loyalty to Playstation/Sony to a battered wife in an abused relationship....starting to feel like it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

LOL, you had me confused. I thought somehow my post got "hot-link blocked" and that pic popped up instead.
which was really weird since I didnt' post any actual pics.....


I was so confused for about 3 seconds. LOL
I had to scroll back up and remember what my post had looked like.

[Chozo Ghost]

My credit card number wasn't actually compromised by the hacking (because I hadn't given Sony it) so would I even be able to get in on a class action lawsuit?  I don't think it would make sense to sue them for the temporary inconvenience of PSN being down a few weeks.  It was a big **** up for sure but they really don't personally owe me any damages.

Your name, birthday, address, password, secret question/answer, and possibly telephone number or whatever else you gave to them was compromised. This is enough information to really screw with a person if someone were so inclined. I think the real damage may be the loss of the secret question/answer info, because many sites have similar questions/answers and a person may use that on many other sites. With that in hand and with all the other information available, someone could easily break into other accounts on other websites.

[Chozo Ghost]

http://www.1up.com/news/sony-ceo-lashes-out-critics-psn-attack-response

There was no shortage of criticism over the amount of time it took Sony to inform the public of the PlayStation Network breach that resulted in users' personal data being stolen. Sony claimed the intrusion was discovered "between April 17 and April 19," PSN was taken offline on April 20, and word didn't go out until April 26 that data might be at risk, despite days of speculation that such a scenario was possible.  This was attributed to Sony only discovering the extent of the breach on April 25, but that didn't stop fans, Attorney Generals, and even Congress from voicing concern over how long it took. Sony CEO Howard Stringer feels the company was actually very timely and he questions anyone who says otherwise.
 "This was an unprecedented situation," Stringer said today, Reuters reports. "Most of these breaches go unreported by companies. Forty-three percent notify victims within a month. We reported in a week. You're telling me my week wasn't fast enough?"

It sounds to me like Sony just wanted to keep the whole thing under wraps, but due to the severity of it and how long PSN was down it was impossible for them to cover it up. But it makes you wonder what other **** might have happened that they actually did cover up that we never even heard of

[broodwars]

Ok, it looks like we finally have a timetable for the PSN Store's return:

May 24th - The Store goes back online and any content scheduled to release on April 26th (the first Tuesday after PSN went down) goes up on the store.  Presumably, the "Welcome Back" content will become available around this time.

May 27th - The next batch of stuff originally scheduled to release May 3rd goes up on the store.

May 31st and June 3rd - 3 weeks of content to cover the remaining release gap (making the store finally up-to-date with releases) goes up on the store.

Some content (especially DLC) may be subject to some rescheduling.

Well, at least we now have a date to look forward to: sometime in the evening next Tuesday, because Sony never has had a set time when they've updated the store.      Then again, L.A. Noire is awesome so I should be occupied for most of that period.  Pity my L.A. Noire DLC won't be accessible till then.

[broodwars]

*sigh*  Sony's Blog has been updated with information stating that at least parts of the network will be taken down for most of today to run "scheduled maintenance".  They have also...finally...debunked the reports releasing last week that they told developers the PSN Store would be back up starting today.

You know, Sony, I've tolerated a lot of **** from you during this mess.  But one would think that after all the deserved complaints you got about not telling us when our information was stolen, you MIGHT have somehow learned not to keep your customers in the dark.  These reports have been circulating for a week, and you just let them be until the day the Store was supposed to return.  I was planning on going out today and picking up some PSN cards to support the developers who have been royally screwed by you during this disaster, and it is only because I want to support them that I might still do that.  I'm trying to wrap up play on L.A. Noire, but I can't because I can't download any of the DLC I'm entitled to, let alone buy the two other packs that were out and about. 

**** you, Sony.  I'm not mad that the store is still down.  It's a major feature and douche-bag hackers are still going after Sony's sites, so by all means get it right before you bring it back up.  I'm mad that you let us all think it would be back up today, and you had many opportunities to reveal the truth and chose not to.  It's just like all that nonsense when the network was down where we had nothing but silence and vague promises of when it would be restored.  Seriously, Sony, when all this is over you need to completely overhaul your PR department.

[lolmonade]

*sigh*  Sony's Blog has been updated with information stating that at least parts of the network will be taken down for most of today to run "scheduled maintenance".  They have also...finally...debunked the reports releasing last week that they told developers the PSN Store would be back up starting today.

You know, Sony, I've tolerated a lot of **** from you during this mess.  But one would think that after all the deserved complaints you got about not telling us when our information was stolen, you MIGHT have somehow learned not to keep your customers in the dark.  These reports have been circulating for a week, and you just let them be until the day the Store was supposed to return.  I was planning on going out today and picking up some PSN cards to support the developers who have been royally screwed by you during this disaster, and it is only because I want to support them that I might still do that.  I'm trying to wrap up play on L.A. Noire, but I can't because I can't download any of the DLC I'm entitled to, let alone buy the two other packs that were out and about. 

**** you, Sony.  I'm not mad that the store is still down.  It's a major feature and douche-bag hackers are still going after Sony's sites, so by all means get it right before you bring it back up.  I'm mad that you let us all think it would be back up today, and you had many opportunities to reveal the truth and chose not to.  It's just like all that nonsense when the network was down where we had nothing but silence and vague promises of when it would be restored.  Seriously, Sony, when all this is over you need to completely overhaul your PR department.

Not to play the part of Sony Defense Force here, but did Sony ever say that the store was scheduled to be open today?  I don't recall anyone but a handful of video game websites reporting that date.  I don't necessarily blame Sony as much as I blame the news reporters for setting up false expectations for today being the re-launch date (although I'll admit it would have been better for Sony just to debunk these things the second they came out).

[Morari]

Sony/BMG Greece and Sony Music Japan's sites were just hacked as well. All of those customer's information have now been leaked across the internet too.

I love it. Sony has had it coming for a looooong time.

[broodwars]

Not to play the part of Sony Defense Force here, but did Sony ever say that the store was scheduled to be open today?  I don't recall anyone but a handful of video game websites reporting that date.  I don't necessarily blame Sony as much as I blame the news reporters for setting up false expectations for today being the re-launch date (although I'll admit it would have been better for Sony just to debunk these things the second they came out).

Sony never officially announced the store's date, but if you believe the reports we were seeing last week they were sending out emails and whatnot to publishers and developers informing them that the service would begin Store restoration today.  Even if that weren't the case, though, Sony had a responsibility to debunk these reports last week when they were widely circulated on pretty much every major gaming website.  Because they left it alone and didn't deny what looked to be a fairly legitimate information leak, now they're pissing people off who were looking forward to it and it's not like Sony is in the best position to do that.  I just don't get Sony's PR department.  They've never been good at controlling the flow of information given all their constant leaks over the years, but they can at very least stop rumors from dominating their news cycle.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think the hackers are gonna keep this up until the next quarterly report comes out and Sony estimates a Billion dollar loss on PSN being down alone.

I think this just ensures that OtherOS will not be a part of PS4.

[Chozo Ghost]

I think this just ensures that OtherOS will not be a part of PS4.

I think that went without saying ever since they removed it from the Slim model. I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not. Unfortunately for Sony, if hackers have to do it the hard way and have to break or circumvent the firmware in order to make it happen then their effort will also benefit pirates.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think this just ensures that OtherOS will not be a part of PS4.

I think that went without saying ever since they removed it from the Slim model. I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not. Unfortunately for Sony, if hackers have to do it the hard way and have to break or circumvent the firmware in order to make it happen then their effort will also benefit pirates.

And that's when this conversation moves to the "Sony learns nothing" thread.

[Morari]

I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not.

That goes without saying. I have Linux running on my DS and my Dreamcast... I'm kind of surprised that I haven't found a way of installing it on my toaster oven yet.

[Toruresu]

I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not.

That goes without saying. I have Linux running on my DS and my Dreamcast... I'm kind of surprised that I haven't found a way of installing it on my toaster oven yet.

Count me as one of the dumb people but, why do some people NEED to have Linux on everything that 'could run it'? I really don't get it.

[Mop it up]

Why did someone climb Mt. Everest?

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not.

That goes without saying. I have Linux running on my DS and my Dreamcast... I'm kind of surprised that I haven't found a way of installing it on my toaster oven yet.

That's the reason why Sony might as well bring the Other OS feature back on the PS4. If they allow people to install Linux by default then there is far less incentive for hackers to break the firmware. In the case of the PS3 it doesn't really matter now either way because people can install Linux now regardless of whether Sony officially allows it or not, although bringing it back would be a positive gesture which might go a long ways towards getting the hackers off their back. One reason Sony might not do this is arrogance because doing it would admit they were wrong for removing it and in some sense it would mean the hackers won, so I don't think Sony would do it for that reason, but really there's nothing else they would have to lose by bringing it back.

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not.

That goes without saying. I have Linux running on my DS and my Dreamcast... I'm kind of surprised that I haven't found a way of installing it on my toaster oven yet.

Count me as one of the dumb people but, why do some people NEED to have Linux on everything that 'could run it'? I really don't get it.

Because by installing Linux you can get stuff to do things it wasn't officially supposed to do. With Linux you can install and run a much better web browser on your ps3 than the one provided by Sony, and you can do spreadsheets and all the other things you normally can't do on a PS3 but can do on a computer. So that's the reason. Plus the PS3 is supposed to be some "super computer" (according to Sony anyway) which you can get for an affordable price.

As for installing Linux on wrist watches, coffee machines and microwaves, I guess people just do that for the challenge of it. In the case of the PS3 there are some practical uses for it, though.

[Toruresu]

I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not.

That goes without saying. I have Linux running on my DS and my Dreamcast... I'm kind of surprised that I haven't found a way of installing it on my toaster oven yet.

Count me as one of the dumb people but, why do some people NEED to have Linux on everything that 'could run it'? I really don't get it.

Because by installing Linux you can get stuff to do things it wasn't officially supposed to do. With Linux you can install and run a much better web browser on your ps3 than the one provided by Sony, and you can do spreadsheets and all the other things you normally can't do on a PS3 but can do on a computer. So that's the reason. Plus the PS3 is supposed to be some "super computer" (according to Sony anyway) which you can get for an affordable price.

As for installing Linux on wrist watches, coffee machines and microwaves, I guess people just do that for the challenge of it. In the case of the PS3 there are some practical uses for it, though.

Practical use? Come on, I bet everyone that has a PS3 with Linux has a laptop/PC that can do all those things in a better way.

I'll take Mop it up's answer, "Just to do it" I guess.