Topic: Metroid: Other M Impressions

[balzzzy]

And yet you're looking forward to a Metroid game that de-evolves in terms of control.   

How is the game de-evolving in terms of control? All Metroids, less the Prime series, have had the ability to move left, right up and down. Other M wasn't awkward in 3D. In fact it felt nostalgic to the series with a fresh take on it. Do players need an analog stick to move around in a 3D space? The camera programming in the game was amazing and so fluid that they blended cutscenes and in game action seamlessly with the controls. So what would adding the nunchuck, classic controller or GameCube controller achieve for them in this game based on the fact that they want to appeal to players, old and new, with simplicity in mind? Players use the D-pad, A, B, 1 and 2 buttons no different than they would the D-pad, B, A, X and Y buttons on the SNES controller. With those buttons in the demo I was able to move around, jump, shoot, charge my gun, dodge enemy attacks, morph into morph ball, roll around, lay bombs and morph ball jump by laying bombs. Pointing the Wii remote added shooting missles and exploration to the control list. Holding the Wii remote vertically and holding A recharged some health and missles.
 
In the demo movies that Nintendo released we see the grapple beam, the speed dash, the freeze beam, the morph ball speed boost and yet there is still more to discover once we all play the full version. Give the game a chance.

[broodwars]

And yet you're looking forward to a Metroid game that de-evolves in terms of control.   

How is the game de-evolving in terms of control?

It's a 3D game played with the D-pad.  That's the sort of nonsense Nintendo fans used to rightly mock Playstation fans about during the N64 days.  To me, 3D games need an analog stick.  It offers a smooth experience you simply don't get hammering on a D-pad.  That the development team saw the need to make you auto-target enemies tells me that they thought the D-pad control was clunky as well.  I wouldn't mind the D-pad control if we just had the option of using the analog stick.  That's all I've ever asked for: the option to use the control method that best works for me.  It astounds me how Nintendo likes to boast and ***** about "accessibility" of controls, yet they do so by locking out all control options aside from NES-style controls, which they think everyone should have to use.  Sorry, but I don't find having to use a tiny D-pad with tiny buttons on a Wiimote that's too small for my hands "accessible", but rather clunky and stupid.  What happened to the Nintendo who gave us every conceivable way to play Smash Bros. Brawl and Punch Out, so everyone could play the game whatever way worked best for them?
 

In the demo movies that Nintendo released we see the grapple beam, the speed dash, the freeze beam, the morph ball speed boost and yet there is still more to discover once we all play the full version. Give the game a chance.

No, not going to happen.  This game become one I was going to ignore the moment that Nintendo announced that they were stubbornly sticking to archaic D-pad controls; using a world design practically ripped from the similarly-underwhelming Metroid Fusion; and focusing on a story I couldn't care less about, especially the fanservice to the incredibly overrated Super Metroid.  I'm not going to pay Nintendo $50 + tax for a game that uses game design decisions I vehemently disagree with and controls that are not comfortable for me to use.  I'm not going to validate their mindset that it's perfectly ok for everything to play like an NES game.  I was perfectly content not playing Metroid games before Retro made the series "good" with the Prime games, and I'm perfectly content with ignoring it again.

[KnowsNothing]

I find your opinions difficult to accept including your choice of basketball team.

[broodwars]

I find your opinions difficult to accept including your choice of basketball team.

I'm from Utah.  I'm damn proud of my basketball team, and nothing you can say will change that.  As for my opinions, I get that a lot but I'm not going to shy away from criticizing Nintendo when they do something I don't agree with, even in the face of the Nintendo Loyalty Brigade here. 

[Mop it up]

I like how anyone who's actually looking forward to this game is labeled a "fanboy" or "loyalist." It's like no one can legitimately be excited for the game without it being chalked up to just being a fan of Nintendo who'll just buy whatever games Nintendo releases.

[balzzzy]

This game become one I was going to ignore the moment that Nintendo announced that they were stubbornly sticking to archaic D-pad controls; using a world design practically ripped from the similarly-underwhelming Metroid Fusion; and focusing on a story I couldn't care less about, especially the fanservice to the incredibly overrated Super Metroid.

So if that is the case, then why are you still following the game's progression and writing on forum boards almost a year and a half after the announcement of the controls you feel so strongly against? The controls are sticking and haven't changed since the announcement.

[broodwars]

I like how anyone who's actually looking forward to this game is labeled a "fanboy" or "loyalist." It's like no one can legitimately be excited for the game without it being chalked up to just being a fan of Nintendo who'll just buy whatever games Nintendo releases.

Actually, I didn't say or infer anything of the kind here.  I was referring to a more global stance I take on this site: I'm well aware that I'm probably not liked all that much (especially by the Nintendo fanboys who logically frequent this Nintendo-centric site, as observed by how quickly my Karma drops whenever I write something particularly critical) because I am so vocally critical of Nintendo, and I really don't care.  That's all I was saying.  If you are into this game, good for you.  I hope you enjoy it.  I just can't agree with the direction Nintendo is taking with this game.

[broodwars]

This game become one I was going to ignore the moment that Nintendo announced that they were stubbornly sticking to archaic D-pad controls; using a world design practically ripped from the similarly-underwhelming Metroid Fusion; and focusing on a story I couldn't care less about, especially the fanservice to the incredibly overrated Super Metroid.

So if that is the case, then why are you still following the game's progression and writing on forum boards almost a year and a half after the announcement of the controls you feel so strongly against? The controls are sticking and haven't changed since the announcement.

I like following the impressions and seeing how the various writers/editors here approach the game.  After all, Jonny was quite vocal here about not agreeing with aspects of the game.  Like it or not, this game could very well be a turning point in the franchise and it's better that I keep up with it than be surprised if it takes off and we're stuck with this "new direction".  Besides, I tend to read most of this site's articles.   

[Mop it up]

Actually, I didn't say or imply anything of the kind here.

You just said there's a Nintendo loyalist brigade here. The vibe I get from you is that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fanboy or loyalist, but I guess that has to do with your style of writing.

[balzzzy]

This game become one I was going to ignore the moment that Nintendo announced that they were stubbornly sticking to archaic D-pad controls; using a world design practically ripped from the similarly-underwhelming Metroid Fusion; and focusing on a story I couldn't care less about, especially the fanservice to the incredibly overrated Super Metroid.

So if that is the case, then why are you still following the game's progression and writing on forum boards almost a year and a half after the announcement of the controls you feel so strongly against? The controls are sticking and haven't changed since the announcement.

it's better that I keep up with it than be surprised if it takes off and we're stuck with this "new direction".

I like how you say we're stuck. I do not feel stuck. You feel stuck. I guess it is just your overall pessimism, style and general disposition. I agree with Mop it up. It is your style of writing. You sound like you are ranting and raving about something you don't really care about anyway.

[broodwars]

This game become one I was going to ignore the moment that Nintendo announced that they were stubbornly sticking to archaic D-pad controls; using a world design practically ripped from the similarly-underwhelming Metroid Fusion; and focusing on a story I couldn't care less about, especially the fanservice to the incredibly overrated Super Metroid.

So if that is the case, then why are you still following the game's progression and writing on forum boards almost a year and a half after the announcement of the controls you feel so strongly against? The controls are sticking and haven't changed since the announcement.

it's better that I keep up with it than be surprised if it takes off and we're stuck with this "new direction".

I like how you say we're stuck. I do not feel stuck. You feel stuck. I guess it is just your overall pessimism, style and general disposition. I agree with Mop it up. It is your style of writing. You sound like you are ranting and raving about something you don't really care about anyway.

Nintendo in general just frustrates me these days.  I grew up with 4 successive generations of exclusively Nintendo hardware (NES, NES, N64, GameCube) before the Wii, so as a company I have a certain attachment to them.  Ticky-tack things like this are just silly, stubborn, and lazy on Nintendo's part.  We shouldn't have to beg Nintendo to use their own peripherals, or design a product so everyone can play it comfortably.  That's just good design.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Nintendo in general just frustrates me these days.  I grew up with 4 successive generations of exclusively Nintendo hardware (NES, NES, N64, GameCube) before the Wii, so as a company I have a certain attachment to them.  Ticky-tack things like this are just silly, stubborn, and lazy on Nintendo's part.  We shouldn't have to beg Nintendo to use their own peripherals, or design a product so everyone can play it comfortably.  That's just good design.

Lazy? I don't believe it was that they couldn't be bothered to add a Nunchuck control option, I'm fairly sure they wanted to design it that way from the beginning. Whether you agree with it or not, I don't think lazy is the right word.
Silly? Well, I was sceptical about that as well, but if you check out the translated video interview with Yosuke Hayashi from Team Ninja, you'll get a greater understanding for the control decision. From one point of view, the control stick makes movement in 3D space more accessible. However, the justification is that they can streamline the controls when there are fewer buttons on the controller and it's obvious what everything does. Moreover, when Hayashi-san discusses the Sense Move, which is a dodge move that you can do with a quick tap on the D-Pad when an enemy is about to hit, it makes a lot of sense. His rationale is that instinctively, it is faster to tap on the D-Pad than an analog stick.

I haven't played this, of course; this is just what I've read or heard. I would tell you not to write it off with such vehemence, but clearly you made up your mind long ago. Fair enough, nobody's forcing you to play the game. I just think that, even though it probably was not your intention, your comments have come across a bit like "I don't really care, but let me tell you all about it".

[Shecky]

So is it true that in order to fire missiles you need to be in 1st person view?  I remember reading that somewhere...

[MegaByte]

Yes.  And it seems most of the enemies of consequence require this.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Actually, I didn't say or imply anything of the kind here.

You just said there's a Nintendo loyalist brigade here. The vibe I get from you is that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fanboy or loyalist, but I guess that has to do with your style of writing.

Amen. Also it gets old that anything Nintendo does is criticized, it comes across as a broken record. The same can be said for someone who thinks NIntendo can do no wrong.

In regards to the game itself, the controls concern me a bit but from the impressions I've read it doesn't seem to cripple the game. Would I have preferred analog control? Yep but I do understand the rationale behind using the current control scheme even if I may not be sold on it. Sakamoto is a great game designer and I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt like I give any accomplished designer. I remember the crap Retro got as well up until the game was released.

My guess is that the reviews will say something to the affect of "While not ideal, and sometimes clunky the D-pad control scheme still works because of the more 2-D design of many of the corridors. You do get used to them along with the FPS aiming"

[broodwars]

Actually, I didn't say or imply anything of the kind here.

You just said there's a Nintendo loyalist brigade here. The vibe I get from you is that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fanboy or loyalist, but I guess that has to do with your style of writing.

Amen.

The fact that I get about 6-7 smites the moment I write anything remotely critical of Nintendo, regardless of anything else I write anywhere else or how constructive the criticism, tells me that most of the people who don't agree with me are fanboys or loyalists.  I believe Greg himself referred to this site as "the headquarters of the Nintendo Loyalty Brigade."  If they weren't, they could learn to take a little criticism.
 
And, incidentally, I'd like to point out that this inane karma system turned out to be exactly what I said it would be when it was announced: a way for petty people to exact some form of petty vengeance on people they don't agree with.  And why applaud people when doing some form of "harm" is apparently so much more pleasing?  I haven't even posted in this thread for a week and a half, and people are still smiting me for it.

[Mop it up]

I haven't even posted in this thread for a week and a half, and people are still smiting me for it.

Why do you assume you aren't being smote for posts made in other topics?

And no, it isn't me, I will only applaud someone. I don't think anyone actually puts stock into the scores, nor do I think it was ever intended to indicate something about a member, it's just something people use when they're bored. And hey, if the system actually does get people to subtract a point from a meaningless score as opposed to posting an insult, perhaps it serves a purpose after all.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Actually, I didn't say or imply anything of the kind here.

You just said there's a Nintendo loyalist brigade here. The vibe I get from you is that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fanboy or loyalist, but I guess that has to do with your style of writing.

Amen.

The fact that I get about 6-7 smites the moment I write anything remotely critical of Nintendo, regardless of anything else I write anywhere else or how constructive the criticism, tells me that most of the people who don't agree with me are fanboys or loyalists.  I believe Greg himself referred to this site as "the headquarters of the Nintendo Loyalty Brigade."  If they weren't, they could learn to take a little criticism.
 
And, incidentally, I'd like to point out that this inane karma system turned out to be exactly what I said it would be when it was announced: a way for petty people to exact some form of petty vengeance on people they don't agree with.  And why applaud people when doing some form of "harm" is apparently so much more pleasing?  I haven't even posted in this thread for a week and a half, and people are still smiting me for it.

Have you thought it may also be that people have grown tired of your constant criticism, primarily the way you present yourself when you speak your criticism?  If you notice some "fanbois" have worse karma then you (Looks at Kytim who appears to be a pretty big Nintendo fan), stop whining. If you are popular on the board people seem to either tease you with negative scores or give you a ton of praise, given the fact that there MANY with worse karma with you here who are pretty big Nintendo fans gives a lot of credence to it having nothing to do with your opinion (Heck I think Ian has better Karma then you).

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't smite people for their opinions; I smite them for how they express their opinions. If you say something I disagree with, but do it in a respectful, non-dickish way, I don't smite.

[TJ Spyke]

My score started improving when I stopped complaining, so maybe GP has a point. It's like in real life you sometimes feel like saying something but you use your better judgment and don't.

I am worried about the game, especially since Sakamoto did things like  have the game be played using only the Wii Remote despite the objections of the developer (Team Ninja). It's looking like the game won't be as bad as I first thought, but at this point I don't think it will be as good as the Retro Studios developed games (which had almost no input from Sakamoto). I hope the game does well though since I don't want the series to go on another 8 year absence.

[KDR_11k]

Regarding Other M Mop and Golden are the fangirls and covering each other to attack anybody who doesn't like it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Regarding Other M Mop and Golden are the fangirls and covering each other to attack anybody who doesn't like it.

How can you dislike the game until we actually know what the final, WHOLE, game is like? I've said I'm not a huge fan of the controls from how they sound but my guess is that the final product will overcome it, why you ask? Because Sakamoto is a talented game designer, even Metroid Fusion was a GOOD game, maybe not great but it was a good game. It is almost as ridiculous as when people were attacking the game based off a short demo which had Adam activating weapons to use.

People disliked Metroid Prime before it was released as well. It is called keeping an open mind instead of condemning it before even getting your hands on it or reading opinions based on playthroughs of the final game.

My score started improving when I stopped complaining, so maybe GP has a point. It's like in real life you sometimes feel like saying something but you use your better judgment and don't.

I am worried about the game, especially since Sakamoto did things like  have the game be played using only the Wii Remote despite the objections of the developer (Team Ninja). It's looking like the game won't be as bad as I first thought, but at this point I don't think it will be as good as the Retro Studios developed games (which had almost no input from Sakamoto). I hope the game does well though since I don't want the series to go on another 8 year absence.

That is a fair concern, really I doubt it will be as good as the Prime games as well, but the Prime games (yes all three) are fantastic games. I think it may be a situation like Metroid Fusion, while a very good game, wasn't as good as Super Metroid (or even Metroid Zero).

[Mop it up]

Can you show me where I "attacked" someone who doesn't like the game? I don't think I've insulted anyone or tried to invalidate their opinions, and if I did then it was a mistake.

[balzzzy]

Here is a really good impression from Digital Chump.