Topic: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?

[UncleBob]

But your idea of 2 player games where one is using the 3DS made me think of a game where the 2nd player using the 3DS constantly tried to trip up the main player on the big screen by laying traps and enemies ahead of him just off screen.
Think NSMB Wii where the 3DS player is basically doing a level editor just ahead the what is seen on the screen, laying traps, moving blocks, adding enemies. Something like that could be fun.

I SUPPORT THIS IDEA.  Make it so![/url]

[MaryJane]

I think Nintendo is aware of the fact they made a mistake not including on-board storage in the Wii, and that is evidenced by the 3DS. I said it before but I think just like the DS tested the waters for the Wii, the 3DS will test the waters for the Wii2, another reason I think 2011 is too early for the Wii2 to come out.

[Kytim89]

I am thinking about collaborating with NWR for a contest involving everyone on this forum drawing concept art for the Wii 2 and its controllers for a speciel prize. Contestants who participate are then put into a vote and whoever gets the most votes wins a good prize. However, second and third place finalists will still get something, but it will not be as good as the first prize.

[ThePerm]

i really didin't spend too much time on that

[MegaByte]

I think Nintendo is aware of the fact they made a mistake not including on-board storage in the Wii, and that is evidenced by the 3DS.

How so?  So far, there hasn't been any report of on-board storage for the 3DS.

[Kytim89]

I think Nintendo is aware of the fact they made a mistake not including on-board storage in the Wii, and that is evidenced by the 3DS.

How so?  So far, there hasn't been any report of on-board storage for the 3DS.

Nintendo included about 1.5 GB of internal flash memory for the 3DS and a 2 GB SD card. Frankly, I would have prefered for them to put the  extra two GB into the flash chip inside the 3DS because I have enough SD cards in my collection.

[Ian Sane]

I said it before but I think just like the DS tested the waters for the Wii, the 3DS will test the waters for the Wii2, another reason I think 2011 is too early for the Wii2 to come out.

I still think 2011 is the year they should go with but if they really are using the 3DS as a test I can see them going into 2012.  But then it's always been me feeling they SHOULD release in 2011.  I certainly can't say that they WILL.
 
Regarding storage, or for ANYTHING, Nintendo just has to think of someone other than themselves for five minutes.  They can come up with something that they think is sufficient but then should try to think of how it could NOT be sufficient.  What sort of games would this not work with?  What could a dev do that would exceed this storage space?
 
Nintendo's games are usually pretty bug free.  That's probably from good software testing.  I do some software testing as part of my job and a good testing approach is to try to think outside of the box and think of how a user can break something by doing something unconventional.  Nintendo's testers must be very good at thinking like that for Nintendo to have the quality assurance they have.  The same methodology should apply to designing the hardware.  In this case the developers are the users and they need to think of how a dev could hit a roadblock.  Not think of how this works for Nintendo's games but how it could work for someone else's.  In what situation would this hardware not cut it?  I think Nintendo thinks too much in the optimistic direction where they think of all the awesome things they could do with the hardware.  No, think of all the awesome things one couldn't do with the hardware.  Then they're not designing a console just for Nintendo, they're designing a console for all developers who may value different things then Nintendo.
 
The sad thing is that this sort of thinking is quite obvious to us.  We don't just play Nintendo games so we can think of other popular games and whether or not they'll work.  This controller wouldn't work for game A.  This hardware doesn't support the engine for game B.  They need a hard drive for game C.  Friend codes won't work for the online multiplayer of game D.  We do that.  Nintendo can do that, too.

[Kytim89]

@ Ian Sane
 
"Nintendo's games are usually pretty bug free.  That's probably from good software testing.  I do some software testing as part of my job and a good testing approach is to try to think outside of the box and think of how a user can break something by doing something unconventional.  Nintendo's testers must be very good at thinking like that for Nintendo to have the quality assurance they have.  The same methodology should apply to designing the hardware.  In this case the developers are the users and they need to think of how a dev could hit a roadblock.  Not think of how this works for Nintendo's games but how it could work for someone else's.  In what situation would this hardware not cut it?  I think Nintendo thinks too much in the optimistic direction where they think of all the awesome things they could do with the hardware.  No, think of all the awesome things one couldn't do with the hardware.  Then they're not designing a console just for Nintendo, they're designing a console for all developers who may value different things then Nintendo."
 
I agree with you in the fact that if Nintendo could get over their self-centeredness then they could very well have the potential to have one of the most invigorating consoles ever produced at this point that far exceeds any kind of creativity that Sony or Microsoft have up their sleeve. This is why I am so eager to see the Wii 2 because I would to see the return of the glory days when Nintendo ruled the land scape and every third party game had a place on their console. Of course this could all be hog wash, but I would love to see the market swing in Nintendo's favor even more for the next generation because they deserve it.
 
Honestly, I would not be surprised if some third parties like Square, Capcom, Konami and Team Ninja have prototype development kits for the Wii 2 and western developers such as Activision and EA (no Epic : ) have one as well, but Nintendo is more or less in the stage of hearing their feedback before a final design has been authorized. I imagine that this prototype must run basic Wii games in HD with advanced motion plus controls.
 
Ultimatly Nintendo is going to go all out with the Wii 2, but at the same time try and remain within the parameters set by the Wii, which is to not directly compete with the PS360. Nintendo will still pretend that the Wii 2 is weaker even though many will claim that the system is more powerful than the PS3.
 
As for launch titles, a timed exclusive Activision published/Bungie developed game (Marathon?) would go a long way in attracting PS360 owners to the new system. However, would Nintendo be willing to pay for timed exclusives considering that they have all the money in the world?

On a recent show, RFN alluded to how many gamers abandoned Nintendo for the HD consoles because Nintendo seems to be too "kiddy." Well, it seems to me that with the addition of Move and Kinect along with such games as Little Big Planet, Sony and Microsoft are casualizing to capture some of Nintendo's loyal fan base. So, the Wii 2 would present a good opprotunity for Nintendo to harden their core audience and capture some its competitor's fans and keep them in focus.

Heck, if Nintendo were to release an HD console and third party support were to become successful, it would not surprise me that people would trade in their PS360s just to preorder a Wii 2. This is where the third party dvelopers will become successful: Fanbase shift from Sony and Microsoft to Nintendo.

 

[ThePerm]

im not sure about dev kits being out now, i bet they have an estimation of tentative specs that they can work with. I'd expect something a little bit better than ps3/xbox 360, but with Nintendo becoming less concerned with hardware power I can imagine they won't need to be a huge leap. Hardware war grinds to a halt, begin software war.

[MegaByte]

I think Nintendo is aware of the fact they made a mistake not including on-board storage in the Wii, and that is evidenced by the 3DS.

How so?  So far, there hasn't been any report of on-board storage for the 3DS.

Nintendo included about 1.5 GB of internal flash memory for the 3DS and a 2 GB SD card. Frankly, I would have prefered for them to put the  extra two GB into the flash chip inside the 3DS because I have enough SD cards in my collection.

The 1.5GB thing is only a rumor so far, and doesn't support the idea that Nintendo is going to fix storage problems.  2GB is pretty tiny nowadays, and certainly they'd include less than that in the system, so 1.5GB does sound like a real possibility.  Obviously, they're including the SD card because they're cheaping out (SD is normally much slower, and thus cheaper, and there's probably a surplus of 2GB cards at this point).  The DSi only included 256MB, and while it supports SD, you still can't run games from the card.  Even with Wii, it has to copy the files into main memory before executing, and they've had many years to fix the problem.  So, I'm not expecting any great advances, though I hope there are.

[MaryJane]

If 2GB is tiny, 4GB isn't much better, and yet MS manages to sell the 360 with that much memory to people...

[Kytim89]

If 2GB is tiny, 4GB isn't much better, and yet MS manages to sell the 360 with that much memory to people...

They want you to pay $150 for their bigger hard drives when you can easily get one much cheaper. Nintendo does not want to fall into this category, but they have to get with the times in regards to storage.

[Ian Sane]

On a recent show, RFN alluded to how many gamers abandoned Nintendo for the HD consoles because Nintendo seems to be too "kiddy." Well, it seems to me that with the addition of Move and Kinect along with such games as Little Big Planet, Sony and Microsoft are casualizing to capture some of Nintendo's loyal fan base. So, the Wii 2 would present a good opprotunity for Nintendo to harden their core audience and capture some its competitor's fans and keep them in focus.

I think what happened with the Wii is that Nintendo has lost the "gamer culture".  A lot of people of all ages play videogames but there is very much a culture of gaming geeks that would describe themselves as "gamers".  My 40 year old female co-worker who owns a Wii would never describe herself as a "gamer".  There is a certain subculture and as people on a videogame related forum, discussing videogames, we're part of the culture.  Think of it as the audience that gets the humour of Penny Arcade.
 
The Wii is kind of irrelevant to gamer culture.  At best it's the system you have to play the handful of Nintendo first party titles released each year.  The PS3 and Xbox 360 however are very relevant to gamer culture.  Move and Kinect are not, for like the Wii they are seen as very much as casual oriented.  But despite this the PS3 and Xbox 360 remain relevant with gamer culture.  It is not the presence of casual-oriented titles that drives this market away but rather the absense of gamer-targetted titles (or core games or hardcore games or whatever you want to call it).  The Wii lost this market because of a lack of games that interested it.
 
I guess the question is whether or not Nintendo cares that they lost this market.  But with the 3DS it seems likely that they do and want this group back.  There is no reason why they couldn't have both.  But they have to be careful with the Wii 2's design.

[Kytim89]

@ Ian Sane
 
"I guess the question is whether or not Nintendo cares that they lost this market.  But with the 3DS it seems likely that they do and want this group back.  There is no reason why they couldn't have both.  But they have to be careful with the Wii 2's design."
 
At first Nintendo seemed like they did not care if they lost this market or not, but I would bet that they wish they could reclaim the hard core fans again. I mean this market has a large cash incentive for Nintendo to tryand tap into for money.
 
I may be seeing things, but I was just at Gamestop and could not help but notice that the PS3 and 360 slim seem to be advertised in the same way that the Wii has been advertised all along. This is especielly true since Move and Kinect have been released. As I said before, this would present a perfect opprotunity for Nintendo to capture the hard core base once again. Let Sony and Microsoft have Nintendo's casual left overs and then Nintendo could pick up a hard core base for the Wii 2.

[ThePerm]

i think some people need to take breaks from gaming to look at it from the outside.

[broodwars]

As I said before, this would present a perfect opprotunity for Nintendo to capture the hard core base once again. Let Sony and Microsoft have Nintendo's casual left overs and then Nintendo could pick up a hard core base for the Wii 2.

You're assuming, of course, that Microsoft and Sony are losing their core audience in the process of advertising these casual peripherals, and that this "lost" core audience would jump at the chance to flock to Nintendo, a company that has a spotty record of consistently having such games in the Wii generation (especially from 3rd parties).  As a PS3 and 360 owner, I'm happy with my consoles.  Unlike the Wii, I don't find myself continually irritated at the games that are released on those platforms or the companies that own them.  My Wii is essentially my 3rd console, played on the rare occasion that something more interesting is released on it than what I'm currently playing on the other two.  And unless Nintendo can show 3rd parties that 3rd party core-oriented games can sell on the Wii 2 (after they didn't on the N64, GameCube, or Wii), the Wii 2 would likely be my new 3rd console no matter what specs Nintendo shoves into it.

That's really the key if Nintendo wants to expand beyond their casual-centric market next generation: I'm sick of Nintendo always promising that if they release a console, the 3rd parties will return with quality software.  It's time for them to back that up with more than just words, and that means not only building a console that actually caters to 3rd party needs (including standardized online support), but also establishing strong ties with 3rd parties and encouraging the sales of 3rd party software (rather than their current attitude of "well, if a 3rd party game sells well, that's great.  But we're Nintendo, our stuff sells, and we make money no matter how well your game sells!  So you're on your own!").  I also wonder how Nintendo's Japan-centric company focus will play with western developers next generation, who are the future of the gaming industry as Japan continues to show why they only make up 10% of the industry now.

[Kytim89]

@ Broodwars
 
"I also wonder how Nintendo's Japan-centric company focus will play with western developers next generation, who are the future of the gaming industry as Japan continues to show why they only make up 10% of the industry now."
 
What better reason to warm up to western developers?
 
http://www.product-reviews.net/2010/05/13/ps-move-wii-hd-project-natal-and-nintendos-hardships/
 
http://www.product-reviews.net/2010/09/25/ps3-3d-and-wii-2-3d-gaming-future-or-fad/
 
http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2010/09/24/microsoft-wins-the-battle-sony-wins-the-war-wii-dodges-the-draft/
 
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_45/b4202039131840.htm
 
http://gamerant.com/3ds-nintendo-rededication-hardcore-jeff-43519/

[ThePerm]

developers who have a great idea will make a great game

suits will try to cash in and make knock-offs in the now well established genre

fans will tire of this genre

the oriignal developer will over-kill the genre

developers will blame Nintendo for their shitty game 3 years in

[Kytim89]

One thing that Nintendo could do to make the Wii 2 motion controller truelly unique is to replace the rumble vibration feature with the piezoelectric sensor material (artificial muscle) that BnM mentioned before about the 3DS screen. Each individual motion could have its own force feedback sensation and if Nintendo is intending on resurrecting the vitality sensor, they could combine the technology so that certain amounts of feedback is registered by your heart rate.
 
Does this only work with LCDs? Basically the artificial rumble reacts differently to which ever way it is being swung.

[DAaaMan64]

Workout machines often take your pulse just from a grip. Maybe that could work.

[Kytim89]

Workout machines often take your pulse just from a grip. Maybe that could work.

I could also see Nintendo implementing this artificial muscle in a way to accomodate work outs.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Workout machines often take your pulse just from a grip. Maybe that could work.

I think it would be in Nintendo's best interest to delay WiiRelax until they can put the vitality sensor either built directly into the grip of the Wiimote (an idea we've had since a long time ago) or somehow put it into the condom that goes around the wiimote.

The way it's setup now looks like such a limited item ad EA has already beat them to that anyway with EA Sports Active 2. It's time to do it differently. and putting it into the condom would be a cheap way to make it use of it and not even notice that it's there or have it be disabling or uncomfortable.

[Stratos]

They should just save WiiRelax and incorporate it into the next system. They could go the DS route and give a variety of new features for devs to play with in the system. We get a year or so of games forcing all of the new stuff into games then we start seeing the different titles and genres falling into a comfortable balance like we see now with the DS.

[BlackNMild2k1]

That is sort of what I was implying, delaying WiiRelax and the Vitality sensor for the next system (which I believe is coming early 2012).

If they make a Wiimote2.0 like I described and then had the vitality sensor woven into the wiimote condom that also came with every remote, then every player would have would have all the tech from the start creating a situation where 100% of the userbase can participate.... always.

Every Wii2 would have:
A Sensor Bar 2.0 which includes:
-group chat enabled from the start using the built in mic(individual headsets optional).
-a 3D motion camera (3DS connectivity built in).
-IR camera for detecting the Wiimote2.0 (see my designs)
-IR lights for the Wiimote2.0 to track

A Wiimote2.0 which includes:
-MotionPlus+ built in
-2 extra buttons (3 & 4)
-IR/LED strips (for IR camera to track the wiimote)

A Wiimote Condom2.0:
-Vitality sensor woven in

A Nunchuck2.0 which includes:
-IR strips for the Sensor Bar2.0 to track the nunchuck
-MotionPlus+ also inside

A ClassicControllerPro2.0
-Now compatible with GC games and modeled more after the GC controller in shape, not buttons setup.


With a setup like that I think Nintendo would have all their bases covered and the sky is the limit at that point. I really don't think there is any more input options and Devs would have our entire being from movement to heart rate to pointer to voice control at their disposal. All Nintendo needs to do is deliver a system that is capable of using all of that at the same time while also pushing a game at complexity level much higher than what PS360 is capable of today.

[Shorty McNostril]

That is assuming of course that the next system has a remote set up.