Topic: R4 Card Sales Outlawed in the UK

[NWR_Neal]

Another country deems the DS storage devices illegal to sell.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/23782

The popular R4 cards, which are widely used to play retail DS games illegitimately, are now illegal to be imported, sold, or advertised all throughout the UK, according to a recent ruling by a British high court judge.

The official decision is that the card is illegal because it thwarts Nintendo's security to play content. R4 and similar cards are used to play downloaded retail DS games as well as for homebrew purposes, the latter of which has been the main argument for their sale by supporters since homebrew software by itself doesn't involve piracy.  The judge ruled that "the mere fact that the device can be used for a non-infringing purpose is not a defence."

"Nintendo initiates these actions not only on its own behalf, but also on behalf of over 1,400 video game-development companies that depend on legitimate sales of games for their survival," the company said in a statement. HMRC and Trading Standards have seized more than 165,000 copying devices in the UK since 2009.

While the court ruled against the defendant, Playables, Justice Flood dismissed two other complaints by Nintendo. Nintendo had argued that the shape of the cartridge itself was a copy protection mechanism and that the use of a digital version of their logo, which must be present for a game to boot, also constituted copyright infringement.

This case follows one in the Netherlands where 11 online retailers were sued for IP infringement, and is also part of a large-scale attack on piracy that Nintendo has been fighting for most of the life of the DS.  The decision contrasts with recent rules set forth by the US Library of Congress, which explicitly allow users to bypass technical measures put in place by cell phone manufacturers in order to run unlicensed software.

[TJ Spyke]

The Library of Congress ruling did NOT say people could bypass security measures in video games systems, only cell phones. The only video game part of the ruling was that people can research DRM systems without facing legal measures. So R4 type devices can (and I think should) still be banned here too.

Good for Nintendo, another blow against piracy.

[Mop it up]

Might this mean less counterfeit games being sold on sites like eBay?

[AV]

i don't see the real need for R4 besides to pirate.


The DS has so many dozens of excellent games why need for pirate.


Don't give me the excuse that 'i'll lose the game card because they are so small so i need back ups' either. If you are irresponsible and can't take care of your stuff than you shouldn't have access to them. I also hate the idea that gaming is too expensive and they can't afford to buy all the games they want. You prioritize your life and budget money to buy things you want or even trade stuff in at gamestop or something if you don't have the money.

[TJ Spyke]

I think that is why they are being banned, the R4 is used almost only for pirating games. Maybe there are people who want to "back-up" their games or play homebrew games, but I would be shocked if those make up even 1% of the people who use R4 and R4-clone devices.

[NWR_insanolord]

Things that have legitimate uses should not be able to be banned, no matter how much potential they have to be used for illegal activities.

[TJ Spyke]

It happens all the time, especially with weapons and fireworks. If the primary use of something is illegal, then it doesn't matter if it potential has legit use. Being able to play unlicensed software is not what I would really call a legit use either.

[Bboy]

It really shows how widespread it is when I meet little kids who are switching between Geometry Wars and Spirit Tracks on the fly, unbeknownst to them or their parents that it's illegal.

[BranDonk Kong]

I agree this should *not* be illegal. It's really no different than jail breaking your iPhone or having a car that can go above the speed limit. Just because it *can* be used unlawfully, doesn't mean it has to be. Also, all this does is just make it take a couple more minutes to buy this kind of stuff online, make the prices go up, and make kids even less likely to pay for games.

[KDR_11k]

I think we have to be realistic here. The R4 is primarily used for piracy. If you want homebrew get a smart phone.

Things that have legitimate uses should not be able to be banned, no matter how much potential they have to be used for illegal activities.

Heavy weapons? Radioactive materials? Drugs?

[TJ Spyke]

I agree this should *not* be illegal. It's really no different than jail breaking your iPhone or having a car that can go above the speed limit. Just because it *can* be used unlawfully, doesn't mean it has to be. Also, all this does is just make it take a couple more minutes to buy this kind of stuff online, make the prices go up, and make kids even less likely to pay for games.

How does making it harder to pirate games make kids less likely to pay for games? This is totally different than jailbreaking. Jailbreaking (which is still only allowed if you install legal stuff) is mainly used for homebrew programs. DS flash cards (like R4) are used almost exclusively for pirating games. As KDR said, a lot of dangerous things could potentially have legit uses, that doesn't mean they should be legal either. R4 is a piracy device, that is why it has been banned in several countries (including Japan and the UK) and why other countries have shut down places that sell them (like the Netherlands).

[BranDonk Kong]

What if you want homebrew on your DS? What if you actually do want to back up games that you bought? What if you want to back up your old NES games and emulate them on the DS (it's legal)? Rolling papers are primarily used for joints, but they're legal.

No, jailbreaking is not mainly used for homebrew programs. Just about everyone I know with an iPhone for iPod touch has it jailbroken, and it's not because they want to play homebrew, it's because they don't want to pay for apps.

I say if the R4 is banned, then blank CDs and DVDs should be banned too, and CD and DVD burners. No different than the R4 - sure you can make your own movies and back stuff up, but lets be honest here, no one's buying a 100 pack of DVD-Rs or CD-Rs because they have important documents that they need to archive, it's because they don't like paying for music and movies.

For the record, I don't have an R4, I don't even have a DS, so I'm not trying to justify myself or anything like that.

[TJ Spyke]

Emulating games you own is a gray area at best.

I know a lot of people who use rolling papers to make regular cigarettes, even my parents use to do it. Most people I know who do drugs just buy a blunt and use that instead.

Blank CDs and DVDs are not used for pirating music and movies, those are basically just used as storage devices. CD-R's and DVD-R's are (at least from what I have seen) mainly used for legit uses, I have yet to see anyone use or even claim to use R4 devices for anything not illegal.

[Plugabugz]

(Some) Computers are used primarily in illegal activities, ban all storage devices, operating systems and the whole wide internets!

[BranDonk Kong]

Did you really just say blank CDs and DVDs are not used for pirating music and movies? Even my 83 year old grandfather buys DVD-Rs and CD-Rs in bulk for copying movies and music. If you couldn't copy movies onto DVD-R and watch them in any DVD player, there probably wouldn't even be a market for such devices.

[NWR_Neal]

R4 cards are so specific, though. They're pretty much used on the DS and the DS alone. Blank CDs/DVDs aren't used for one specific company's product; they're used for every computer/disc player.

[BranDonk Kong]

So what? They're also much more accessible to anyone on the planet, and more people have CD and DVD players than DSes. If anything that makes them worse, since they're more of a "one size fits all" tool for piracy.

[NWR_Neal]

So what? They're also much more accessible to anyone on the planet, and more people have CD and DVD players than DSes. If anything that makes them worse, since they're more of a "one size fits all" tool for piracy.

Well, from one angle, that means its not like one computer company could wage a war against piracy with the same style as Nintendo.
Also, backing up files/CDs/DVDs is way more legitimate than backing up DS games. That could be because of the widespread nature of blank discs, but it could also be because, unlike putting DS games on R4 cards, it is legal.

[NWR_insanolord]

If you make backup copies of games you own and don't use ones you downloaded from the Internet, that's legal.

[Shaymin]

If you make backup copies of games you own and don't use ones you downloaded from the Internet, that's legal.

Which is exactly why I got a flashcart.

[TJ Spyke]

If you make backup copies of games you own and don't use ones you downloaded from the Internet, that's legal.

That is questionable at best and you know it.

[NWR_insanolord]

If you make backup copies of games you own and don't use ones you downloaded from the Internet, that's legal.

That is questionable at best and you know it.

Making backup copies of material you own is and has always been considered fair use. There's nothing questionable about it.

[Rizwan1]

People use R4 cus they can't afford games, ban R4 and they just won't buy games.

[TJ Spyke]

If you make backup copies of games you own and don't use ones you downloaded from the Internet, that's legal.

That is questionable at best and you know it.

There's nothing questionable about it.

Yes there is.

Rizwan, why would that matter? If they are not buying games now, then what they do doesn't matter. Maybe some of those might actually buy some games now.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

The real question is, what will they do to make sure this doesn't repeat on the 3DS? The firmware needs to be able to tell the difference between a real game card and a flashcard, and the card itself cannot be so easy to pirate. It's all well and good getting it outlawed, but it's a bit late now. Really, Nintendo should have clamped down on DS piracy years ago. It never should've gotten this out of hand. Fortunately, this was probably a big wake-up call to them, so I would expect them to be doing everything in their power to prevent this problem on the next handheld.