Author Topic: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles  (Read 20372 times)

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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2010, 09:25:39 PM »
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs. If Nintendo made at least one game of every genre, and promoted it as the next big thing, I bet they could see money rolling. Wii Sports did this, it inspired (much for our demise) a lot of similar games (that suck, but hey).

Say if Nintendo made a serious fighting game, like what Killer Instinct was, and it sold 1 million copies, 3rd party companies that make fighters would take notice and would release their games. The same with every other game genre. I believe that The Las Story is this game for Nintendo. They need to market it and be 100% behind it, just like they did with Tales of Symphonia, the thing is that for the Wii, it's too little too late. RPG maker's won't flood us with RPGs even if The Last Story sold 2 million copies simply because we seem to be at the end of the consoles cycle.

This is why X-Box and PS3 have the FPS and the RPGs. Microsoft/Sony don't make those types of games (generally speaking, I don't own either and I'm not aware of ALL of their games) so they get a 3rd party to make a game for them, and then they put the $ behind it to market it and NOT make it fail. What happens usually? The game is a hit, even if it sucks, and the rest of the 3rd parties go "Oh, that game sold well there, we should put ours in that console too."

Square-Enix in my opinion won't marry to one console anymore, ever. The old excuse of "whomever has the best graphics wins" was just that, an excuse. They are pretty much an independent studio and do not need Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo's money to survive, but if they are paying them to put a game on their system, they will do it.

Nintendo needs to support these type of games that are exclusive in any way possible. They usually don't because they don't want to be related to crappy games, but all they need to do is try the game themselves. If it's a good game, exclusive and by a 3rd party, they need to use the full force of their marketing to make it sell, just like Sony and Microsoft do.

This is why I'm so shocked they haven't made a full-blown console Pokemon. That's the one RPG Nintendo makes, and they must know how much people want it.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2010, 09:31:37 PM »
This is why I'm so shocked they haven't made a full-blown console Pokemon. That's the one RPG Nintendo makes, and they must know how much people want it.

They haven't bothered to make a real console Pokemon game for the same reason that Dragon Quest still plays like an NES game: it would take actual effort to evolve the franchise into something new, and people (at least in Japan when it comes to Dragon Quest) keep buying the old-style.  We won't see Nintendo do anything radical with Pokemon until people stop buying it, and neither will Square-Enix with Dragon Quest until the Japanese stop going nuts over it.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2010, 09:44:01 PM »
The problem with Nintendo endorsing third party games is what will do with such games like Madworld or No More Heroes? They would not want to taint their image with mature games and this genre is where most of the bad sales are forming.
 
Secondly, I keep hearing all this talk about how the wii's life cycle is nearly over I keep thinking WTF. It seems like its life cycle has just started. I guess I have been a Sony man for too long becuase the PS2, and even the PS 1, were going fairly strong even after ten years of their launch.
 
The reason why I created this topic was mainly to talk about The Last Story, which I am very enthused about. I wanted to disscuss the potential evolution of the RPG genre that this game could bring forth.
 
 
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2010, 09:50:20 PM »
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2010, 09:53:00 PM »
The reason why I created this topic was mainly to talk about The Last Story, which I am very enthused about. I wanted to disscuss the potential evolution of the RPG genre that this game could bring forth.

Well, first off I do have to point out to you that we do already have a Last Story thread (where you already posted some of those thoughts).   ;)

As for where the RPG genre could be evolving, I think it's pretty obvious that we're starting to see an interesting melding of the RPG and the 3rd person shooter.  Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 are essentially 3rd person shooters with lots of RPG elements and dialog trees; Fallout 3 is the same way as a 1st/3rd person shooter; Valkyria Chronicles is a Tactical Strategy RPG that plays like a 3rd person shooter; and The Last Story seems to have some 3rd person shooting and cover mechanics with its RPG design.  Considering that 1st person shooters have become more like RPGs over the years with the addition of equipment; perks; experience systems; and quests, this makes sense and really was inevitable.  Considering the RPG genre has been so stagnant for so long, I'm really looking forward to this melding of genres.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2010, 10:02:40 PM »
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

As far as Nintendo's RPGs go, there are several things I would like to see happen. First, I would not mind seeing a Fire Emblem game done in the style of Final Fantasy Tacics, or Tactics Ogre. Basically abandon the straegy board game style and make it an isometic game.
 
Secondly, I want Super Mario RPG 2 and Chrono Trigger 2 for the wii.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2010, 10:09:07 PM »
Chrono Trigger is a Square Enix IP, not Nintendo. I would like to see another Chrono game though (I am not sure it would be considered Chrono Trigger 2 though since it already got a sequel in Chrono Cross for the PlayStation).
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2010, 10:11:28 PM »
If Square-Enix ever made a Chrono Trigger 2, it would be about as much a Chrono Trigger game as Activision's Goldeneye game is a remake of Rare's Goldeneye: yeah, it would try to steal as much from its predecessor as possible, but in the end it wouldn't be Chrono Trigger.  That ship sailed when the Dream Team broke up and went their separate ways.  They tried to bring them all back together again for Chrono Cross and they did roll out a decent game from it, but it was still a horrible sequel to Chrono Trigger.  Look, Chrono Trigger is my favorite game of all time (pun not intended), but you have to let it go.  We'll probably never see a sequel to it, and even if we did it couldn't possible live up to our expectations and would be nothing like we'd want.  Just enjoy the original game for what it was, while looking forward to the games that these folks are making now.

And for the love of all that is holy, I really hope Nintendo never makes Fire Emblem an isometric TSRPG.  There are already about a billion of those, and they're all the same Tactics Ogre clone.  Instead, let's hope that Nintendo actually ignores its usual stubborn traditions and takes a good look at what Valkyria Chronicles did.  I'd love to see a Fire Emblem game where you rode Dragons in 3D across a battlefield as archers shot arrows at you and you dove at them in quasi-turn based fashion from above ala Valkyria.   :P: :
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2010, 10:21:51 PM »
This my point and belief in the RPG renaissance is that will we ever see another game that is so memorable as Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy 6. This is my whole point, I admired the so called "golden age" of the SNES era and wish to see it again, either for this generation, or the next.
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Offline Toruresu

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2010, 11:22:00 PM »
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Point taken. But you know what I mean. They make those, but they are not 100% behind them.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2010, 11:48:07 PM »
Okay, so if Final Fantasy 15 will not come to a Nintendo console, can they still do a new title that blends all the older games togehter and just call it Final Fantasy wii or something? A return to turn based Final Fantasies for a Nintendo console.
 
It seems, with all intents and purposes, that Dragon Quest is now a Nintendo franchise and Final Fantasy is a Square/Sony/Microsoft property. Although Dragon Quest 11 could be an HD title in the future, but we have to get part ten first.
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Offline Toruresu

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2010, 12:01:24 AM »
Okay, so if Final Fantasy 15 will not come to a Nintendo console, can they still do a new title that blends all the older games togehter and just call it Final Fantasy wii or something? A return to turn based Final Fantasies for a Nintendo console.
 
It seems, with all intents and purposes, that Dragon Quest is now a Nintendo franchise and Final Fantasy is a Square/Sony/Microsoft property. Although Dragon Quest 11 could be an HD title in the future, but we have to get part ten first.

Final Fantasy is a Square-Enix property, Nintendo (and anyone else) can't use the name. Dragon Quest is also Square-Enix property, not a Nintendo franchise. But I do understand what you mean. I hope that the main Final Fantasy games does return to Nintendo systems and I have a feeling that the 3DS might do the trick.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2010, 02:34:58 PM »
Kytim, no one is saying that Final Fantasy XV won't come to a Nintendo console, just that it won't come to the Wii. I could see Square Enix (no dash in there) doing it on the Wii 2 though.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2010, 03:47:20 PM »
I am now leaning more towards Final Fantasy XV being on the 3DS as an exclusive title, but the wii 2 would be nice too. I have no problem with this title reverting back to a medieval setting with a kidnapped princess as a story premise. This argument is kind of dumb, but I thought it would be neccessary to discuss the probability of thisgame appearing on a Nintendo system and what implications it has for the future of RPGs on Nintendo's consoles.
 
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2010, 03:51:13 PM »
Arc Rise Fantasia recieved a 7.5 in a Nintendo Power magazine. I had high hopes for this game, but a 7.5 out of 10 is not that bad for a game.

A 7.5 from Nintendo Power (a completely unbiased magazine, I'm sure) probably means a 5-6 in general.  That's not good.  I am kind of curious to read that magazine to see how they manage to dance around the unbearably bad localization (probably something along the lines of "well, you can turn the voices off...*whistles nonchalantly*").
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Offline Sarail

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2010, 04:32:06 PM »
Arc Rise Fantasia recieved a 7.5 in a Nintendo Power magazine. I had high hopes for this game, but a 7.5 out of 10 is not that bad for a game.

A 7.5 from Nintendo Power (a completely unbiased magazine, I'm sure) probably means a 5-6 in general.  That's not good.  I am kind of curious to read that magazine to see how they manage to dance around the unbearably bad localization (probably something along the lines of "well, you can turn the voices off...*whistles nonchalantly*").

I'd actually disagree with that statement, brood. Have you read recent issues of NP since Future Publishing took it over from NOA?  Their reviews are actually quite harsh on games, and they seem pretty fair and judgmental towards all Nintendo console/handheld games.  And yeah, I'm sure Arc Rise has terrible localization, but the barebones foundation that makes the game is probably pretty well made... thus the 7.5.  I'm sure had the publishing company taken the time to localize the game properly, NP would have reviewed it in the lower 8s. I know I'm looking forward to the game after all... heh, and I will be turning the voices off. :P
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2010, 05:50:13 PM »
In myopinion, here are a list of consoles that ruled the RPG genre:
 
SNES
Playstation
Playstation 2
DS(and PSP?)
 
What comes next is debatable. Could it be the wii 2, or the 3DS?
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Offline Stratos

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2010, 08:01:28 PM »
Valkyria Chronicles is one of the reasons I want a PS3.

It looks like (Batallion Wars + Fire Emblem) x 100 Awesome Points.
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2010, 08:54:57 PM »
Sales matter so that whole FFXV being exclusive is as likely as me getting promoted--not going happen until hell freezes, thaws, and then freezes again.

I can see Square giving the 3DS an exclusive FF title, in Japan RPG still rule and handhelds are big there.  But even though the WII has the largest fanbase, it's doesn't have the hardcore RPG fans.  The top selling RPG for the WII is Paper Mario @ 3 million copies.  The next was MH3 which hit 1 million in Japan but fell well short of the PSP sales. 

Even the last two RPGs, Tales of Graces and Xenoblade haven't done anything special.  ToG is at 220K and Xenoblade hit 150k which is pretty low compared to other games in the series.

Arc of Fantasia doesn't sound like a sysytem seller so I doubt that's going move in the states (it sold only 60K in Japan).  Wonder why we get this instead of Tales of Graces. 

Can't expect more RPG's when the current ones don't sell.

DQX still doesn't have a developement team assigned to it. At this point the game's basically vaporware, no the DQ series won't die (DQIX sold 4 million copies) but I think there wouldn't be a home version on any console.


Offline Dirk Temporo

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2010, 01:36:17 PM »
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Point taken. But you know what I mean. They make those, but they are not 100% behind them.

And with the exception of Xenoblade, they're only RPGs in the vaguest of senses.

Also, I don't want to start and east vs. west debate or anything, but when do you suppose people will stop being satisfied with the "interactive stat block" RPGs, and realize that there's much more to be offered in terms of "role-playing" than just upgrading your skills?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2010, 01:44:27 PM »
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.

Point taken. But you know what I mean. They make those, but they are not 100% behind them.

And with the exception of Xenoblade, they're only RPGs in the vaguest of senses.

Also, I don't want to start and east vs. west debate or anything, but when do you suppose people will stop being satisfied with the "interactive stat block" RPGs, and realize that there's much more to be offered in terms of "role-playing" than just upgrading your skills?

Considering all the complaining I've seen over Mass Effect 2's (which I'm playing right now and love) shift towards 3rd person shooter action over menu tedium, probably never.  The problem with the RPG genre is that companies have been so complacent with the genre over the years that they've allowed the fans to dictate to them what the genre is.  Then whenever a company sets out to do something new with the genre, you get the cries of "but THAT'S not an RPG!  I'm not buying it!" from the die-hards.  I've found, though, that "Role Playing" can't be defined by combat systems; settings; or genre conventions, and may be the most maleable of gaming genres.
 
Hopefully as all genres continue evolving and borrowing elements from each other, we'll start to see more of an acceptance of the RPG following suit.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2010, 05:03:50 PM »
The problem with the RPG genre is that the consumer is too cynical. Look at it this way, these game companies, both East and West, are pouring all of their financial and creative talent into major titles and because the market is so over saturated and the consumer has a "been there and done that" attitude people feel cynical over the games being released and lose interest.
 
But it is not always the fault of the consumer, most gaming companies have failed to adapt to changing conditions in the market and they have also failed to display their IPs properly to the consumer.
 
This question is becoming increasing relevant due to the times we are living in, which is what is an RPG? How if the genre defined? What are some things t look for to determine if a game is an RPG?
 
Ten years ago this question would have been farely easy to answer. All we had to do look for a bunch of emo kids with a bad guy with turn based controls and we would have an RPG. With the advent of such games as the Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Borderlands series we are seeing the definition of an RPG transform into  something that we have not seen too oftern in the past.
 
The whole point, or theme, of an RPG is evolution. At the start of the game you character, who just so happens to be an average kid or person, is weak both on a physical level, but also on a mental level as well. Through the trials and tribulations of the story, your character(s) is now officially mature in both body and spirit. This is the whole point of an RPG, you can watch your character evolve as you play. In later games of the genre, the character became for customizable with magic, weapons and armor and by the end of the game, your character was a power house because you, the player, controlled that character's destiny through evolution.
 
I have to ask the forum a question. Have we had an RPG since, let's say, Chrono Trigger that was ground breaking? This is debatable, but I would argue that although we have seen titles since 1995 that were ground breaking in their own right, we, or I, have not seen anything that people fifteen years from now will saying, "This is a masterpiece." What ever success Chrono Trigger had was attributed to two things. First, was the originality of both the story and gameplay. Second, the dream team pushed the quality of the title that it had no way to go but up.
 
Here is my second question. Could the success of an RPG like Chrono Trigger ever be replicated? Yet again, this is a debatablem topic, but for now I am looking at such games as The Last Story as the second coming of such games as Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6. Now before the fans of these titles grab their pitch forks and torches and form a lych mob for me, consider that I am watching this game with cautious optimism. After all, Last Story is being developed by the man who helped develop both of these titles and is currently over seeing the production of Last Story. Perhaps he is putting a little of that magic into this new game?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2010, 05:21:10 PM »
Well, the first thing I would look at when it comes to creating a "groundbreaking RPG" like Chrono Trigger is to look at its predigree: the so-called "Dream Team" of Sakaguchi working on the gameplay; Toriyama on the artwork; and Mitsuda, Uematsu, and Matsueda working on the music.  Square literally had the best people in the industry (at that time) at what they do working together to make Chrono Trigger under an inventive and fun script by Masato Kato to produce a perfect storm of excellence.
 
Flash-foward to today's market, and talent in the industry has become more diverse.  While Square-Enix has a stranglehold on the Japanese RPG industry, it does not have a monopoly on the talent and S-E's lost a lot of their best employees to other companies over the years.  I don't think any one company has enough skilled people or money to contract them out to create something like Chrono Trigger again.  That isn't to say that we can't have great RPGs, just that it's exceptionally difficult to bring so many talented individuals under one roof now to produce something extraordinary.  It doesn't help, of course, that the Japanese RPG industry (and Japanese entertainment in general) has been going through a lengthy period of creative stagnation that has allowed the Western RPGs to rise to prominence.  Also, the old guard in game development is starting to be phased out, and the up-and-coming artists will take a while to truly learn the craft.
 
While the Western RPG developers are in similar situations at the moment, we are seeing talent consolidated in Bioware at the moment.  I think if we see an RPG of "legendary" caliber, it's going to come from them if it hasn't already (and I'd argue that Mass Effect 2 might be approaching that category).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 05:24:46 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2010, 05:55:11 PM »
Well, the first thing I would look at when it comes to creating a "groundbreaking RPG" like Chrono Trigger is to look at its predigree: the so-called "Dream Team" of Sakaguchi working on the gameplay; Toriyama on the artwork; and Mitsuda, Uematsu, and Matsueda working on the music.  Square literally had the best people in the industry (at that time) at what they do working together to make Chrono Trigger under an inventive and fun script by Masato Kato to produce a perfect storm of excellence.
 
Flash-foward to today's market, and talent in the industry has become more diverse.  While Square-Enix has a stranglehold on the Japanese RPG industry, it does not have a monopoly on the talent and S-E's lost a lot of their best employees to other companies over the years.  I don't think any one company has enough skilled people or money to contract them out to create something like Chrono Trigger again.  That isn't to say that we can't have great RPGs, just that it's exceptionally difficult to bring so many talented individuals under one roof now to produce something extraordinary.  It doesn't help, of course, that the Japanese RPG industry (and Japanese entertainment in general) has been going through a lengthy period of creative stagnation that has allowed the Western RPGs to rise to prominence.  Also, the old guard in game development is starting to be phased out, and the up-and-coming artists will take a while to truly learn the craft.
 
While the Western RPG developers are in similar situations at the moment, we are seeing talent consolidated in Bioware at the moment.  I think if we see an RPG of "legendary" caliber, it's going to come from them if it hasn't already (and I'd argue that Mass Effect 2 might be approaching that category).

As strange as this might sound, I would like to see a western RPG like Bioware to develop a major JRPG like Final Fantasy, but SE probably does not like the fact that Bioware is encroaching into their territorty. When Bioware developed Sonic Chronicles they made it like JRPG with some western features. This highbrid of a game was okay, but it gave some sense that a western company could make a JRPG work in some sense.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2010, 05:59:54 PM »
As strange as this might sound, I would like to see a western RPG like Bioware to develop a major JRPG like Final Fantasy, but SE probably does not like the fact that Bioware is encroaching into their territory. When Bioware developed Sonic Chronicles they made it like JRPG with some western features. This hybrid of a game was okay, but it gave some sense that a western company could make a JRPG work in some sense.

That would be strange indeed considering the smug (overly-so in my opinion.  They come off as rather arrogant) sabre-rattling that Bioware's been doing ever since Final Fantasy XIII launched, heavily criticizing Japanese RPG developers for a lack of creativity and evolution of design.  After all that, I don't see Bioware stepping in and making an RPG that would appeal to the Japanese RPG market, and I see even less the Japanese accepting it.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 06:02:24 PM by broodwars »
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